Commentary on “Transcendent Knowledge Podcast” Episode 3 (2016-05-08) Reasons for the Podcast

Content:

Outline of Episode

Episode 3, May 8, 2016

Max Freakout and Cyber Disciple discuss their reasons for collaborating on the Transcendent Knowledge Podcast.

  • The uptake of a radical new paradigm
  • The various established explanatory paradigms within popular psychedelia
  • The psychotherapy model of entheogen use
  • New Age nonduality theories such as Martin Ball’s entheological paradigm, and its limitations
  • Neuroscientific studies of entheogens such as recent research from Robin Carhart-Harris
  • Physicalist and idealist perspectives on entheogens
  • Different versions of no-freewill
  • Altered state revision of implicit assumption frameworks
  • Psychedelics as “assumption revealers”
  • Plato’s cave allegory and its application to altered state phenomenology
  • The effect of the altered state on ancient Greek culture
  • Interpreting classical literature in light of altered state dynamics
  • Carl Ruck’s writing on ancient culture and entheogens
  • Minimal, moderate and maximal theories of entheogen history
  • Botanical identification of entheogenic plants in ancient culture
  • Various writers in entheogenic history of religion such as Scott Teitsworth, Clark Heinrich, Dan Merkur and Gordon Wasson
  • Academic self-reinforcing feedback loops and resistance to radical paradigm revision
  • Limitations of John Allegro’s entheogenic theory of Christianity
  • Luther Martin’s book ‘Hellenistic religion’ which emphasises heimarmene as a key concern of ancient religion
  • Over-emphasis on Eleusis in academic writings on ancient mystery religions
  • Michael Rinella’s book ‘Pharmakon’
  • The entheogen-diminishing strategy of relegating entheogens to footnotes and introductions
  • The importance of placing entheogens front and centre in historical study
  • Luke Timothy Johnson’s entheogen diminishment in his writing/speaking on Christianity
  • William Alston’s book on religious experiencing ‘Perceiving God’
  • Alston’s concept of ‘over-riders’ which invalidate religious experiences
  • Tom Hatsis’ writings on entheogen history and witchcraft
  • The distinction between Michael Hoffman’s writing style and the theoretical content of the ego death theory
  • Academic scholarship vs. Internet scholaship
  • Blindness to prohibitionist assumptions among drug policy reform activists
  • Hatsis’ dismissal of entheogen theory of Christianity
  • Hatsis’ study of scolpolamine plants in ancient witchcraft practises
  • Drug policy reform activism and outrageous anti-drugs propaganda

Commentary Posting

My Commentary posting
From: egodeath
Date: 2016-08-02
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/13/egodeath-yahoo-group-digest-160/#message8445

Paradigms to Add to the List of Paradigms
  • Ayahuasca shamanism
  • Ayahuasca Christian churches
  • Psychedelic Quantum Physics

Possible “paradigms” that aren’t included in the list of paradigms in Transcendent Knowledge Podcast, Episode 3

Ayahuasca shamanism and Ayahuasca Christian churches
http://google.com/search?q=Ayahuasca+shamanism+and+Ayahuasca+Christian+churches
http://google.com/search?q=Ayahuasca+shamanism+Christian+church

There is much in common with the Egodeath theory and Ayahuasca Christian churches.

I’m focused for various strategic reasons on amplifying or fully continuing the traditional mushroom Eucharist.

Amplify and fully continue the traditional mushroom Eucharist.

the traditional mushroom Eucharist

http://www.heroic-adventures.com/ayahuasca-ceremonies-usa/
“Interesting Discussion on Legality of Ayahuasca in the USA
In the Fall of 2015, a website popped up touting the First Ayahuasca Church in the USA that is open for ceremonies to anyone. … After this article [ http://www.bialabate.net/news/dont-believe-the-hype-about-the-legal-ayahuasca-usa-church-going-around-facebook-its-not-legal-its-dangerous-and-heres-why ] was published detailing why this church is not legal … A curious story in the world of spirituality, religious rights, internet marketing, and law. (updated December 08, 2015)”

Psychedelic Quantum Physics
http://google.com/search?q=Psychedelic+Quantum+Physics
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=psychedelic+quantum+physics

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com

/ end copy of post re: episode 3; end commentary on ep 3

Start of Podcast

0:00

Ruck’s Self-Contradiction: Entheogens Were Ubiquitous and Secret
57:00

Episode 3, 57:00 todo: polish this transcription & add to Episode 3 Commentary page:

Max: “But the more that Ruck pushes in that direction of broadening the scope of where you can identify entheogens, the more that his overall picture starts to look like a blatant self-contradiction, because what he’s saying is, absolutely everybody everywhere knew about entheogens and was tripping, but it was all kept- it was all a secret, and nobody really knew about it — but you know, which one of those is true?”

1:13:06

Missing from entheogen history books is,
grasp of the cognitive phenomenology of the dynamics of the altered state, about personal control power, peak climax seizure during transformation of the mental worldmodel from possibilism to eternalism. Here I am virgin abd’d and made to climax by the god, wrestling with an angel demanding a blessing, and the trained certified clinicians don’t know what to do about the lion-headed snake monster that I created by acting on my own initiative without a higher partner.

Hellenistic Religions
Luther H Martin
http://amzn.com/019504391X
covers Christianity, Gnosticism, Isis, Mithras. No Eleusis.

The Revolution of the Footnotes

Suppressing entheogens from the topic of fatedness in Mystery Religions. Reductionism/narrowing the field.

Martin does the old “bury entheogens in the footnote underworld” of the disallowed ideas — try to steer very much still-living ideas down to hide in the underworld for eternity.

Antiquity per Mystery Religion was centrally concerned with reconciling individual with fated universe.

Paradigm shift, per the New Theory — Need to move all the footnotes together, to the main text.

http://amzn.com/1481309560
http://amzn.com/1549888986
http://amzn.com/081221692X
http://amzn.com/1571746072

1:16:00

flip from the micro-revelation of entheogens — just say
the maximal entheogen theory of religion

force of ignorance tries to relevant ideas that would shatter the current messy paradigm, ban the ideas — COVER-UP the ideas by covering them safely in the first page footnote.

THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE RAMBLING OF SOME GUY ON A DRUG TRIP.

Luke Timothy Johnson, page 1 footnote/ introductory remark
http://www.clinicalanthropology.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/mca3_28.jpg

1:21:00

Reminds me of Wasson’s reporting of “the celerity with which the art historians all recognized the problem of a zillion mushroom trees in Christian art and how very speedily the professional trained art experts blurted forth the trained correct cover-story.”

Wasson’s argument from Speediness of the Trained-Dog Art Professionals.

How fast can YOU blurt forth the approved cover-story for The Elephant in the Room Problem, the all-too-well-known problem, of a damned lot of mushrooms all over Christian art?

Yes we know, it’s nothing new
It’s just Italian pine
We have no need, for mushroom trees
The world is doing fine

Covert subtext of what Hatsis isn’t saying is more interesting than the info on the surface level, a paradigm clash between the official academic paradigm vs. the internet

1:29:30

Hatsis’ disparaging style academic disparaging of online, is an argument from authority.

Beware, the thought-distorting force, the imagination-killing force, of academic conformity.

The social conditions in academia are strongly influenced by prohibitionist culture.

Prohibitionist university, prohibiting forbidden ideas.

The academic paradigm that Hatsis tries to align with, are prohibitionist. academia tries to make Hatsis align with their prohibitionist presuppositions.

invisible prohibitionist assumptions, even affect (eg those doing entheogen scholarship as done wit conducted with unconscious obstacles to pop psych understanding, prhibotiionist ways mental ity creeps into modern thinking re religion spiry entheogns, is colored by unnotisicsde prohbitionist assumptions eg Hatsis criticizing Irvin re mushrooms in Christianity. a critique based in “no evidence”, “we can apply magic mistor historical methods” – he donesn’t

what counts as eveidence, that what counts as evidence is so influenced the p the prohibitionist mindset.

the Egodeath theory tells how to notice things about your thinking

“Hatsis is unaware of those aspects of his thinking.

1:34:20

“Hatsis’ dividing out of the playground, he puts Irvin over in a corner,

“It’s tempting to critique Hatsis’ personal style.

Cyberdisciple has a copy, d/k if he read it, of Witches Ointment.

1:42:45

The paradigms the major thouhght conglomerations of thoughts and ideas in the Pop Sike paradigm, did we miss any?

  • Psychotherapy
    • Doblin, emotion, network of psychaistrists, ptsd treatment, emotional issues
  • Neuroscience
    • C Harris
  • Psychedelic Newage Spirituality
    • Martin Ball
    • nonduality, energy [energy vibrations -mh] – What, you don’t believe in energy vibrations, what are you, Anti-Science?
  • Entheogen scholarship of religion and mythology
    • historical anthropological mythical theory, entheogens in historical context, talking about religion and mythology in entheogenic terms
  • anti-Prohibition activism, pop sike conferences
    • highlights crucial assumptions
More Paradigms
  • Ayahuasca shamanism
  • Ayahuasca Christian churches
  • Psychedelic Quantum Physics
    • overlaps w/ Psychedelic Newage

core assumptions eg bad trips as an embarrassment, they have to steer around, they don’t want to admit freakout panic attack. assumption that prohibition is good-faith motivated by good intentions

They = anti-Prohibition activists who are ignorant of analogical psychedelic eternalism & furies and self-threatening driving mental model transformation when the awareness is pulled lifted up out from egoic mental structuring and experiential mode, per Egodeath theory; abduction, trembling in light of seeing higher perspective on self-control limits;

Call the bluff of the prohbitionists, expose their falsehoods instead of unconscsiously conforming your thinking to unconscious presuppositions systemic.

1:55:00

An Attractive Theory, Attracting Sailors to Crash on the Rocks and Die
19:00

19*60 = 1140s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykgeO6CD6RM&t=1140s

ominous word-choice Cyberdisciple : 19:00 —

Cyb: “show them how they can move closer to the Egodeath theory, why the Egodeath theory is a more attractive option than the current paradigms, intellectually speaking, just for coherence and for providing the fullest model of what goes on in the altered state.”

What goes on in the altered state is:

The mind gets pulled, attracted, and sucked-into testing and probing and demonstrating the vulnerability to seizure and cancellation of control; the control-loss dynamic:

“’cause that’s really what has drawn us to it; there’s nothing that really compares to the depth of explanation; that actually, pushing through towards the ego death, and not trying to skate around the outside and use psychedelics for some other purpose.”

Max: 21:10 — “whereas the Egodeath theory is really putting all the focus basically onto the control-loss dynamic and ego death experience which is not a pleasant glowy thing.”

Portentious: Cyberdisciple is trying to scare the sh*t out of people in the altered state by sending them secret veiled suggestive messages communicating to YOU (me?) yes YOU: as every Phil Dick candy-wrapper thing you encounter is conspiring to pull you into the vortex center of the control-seizure sacrificial labyrinth where the bull-man eats and sacrifices the child.

Being One with the Control Source Is More Amazing and Climactic and Profound Than Martin Balls’s Stupid Mere Spatial Being One with the Chair
23:00

Max: “missing the point. not the most interesting dynamic. the greater threat is that you’re one with the source of control thoughts. the trap of trying to have nonduality and spiritual transformation but retaining freewill and egoic consciousness as being fully real.

“In the pop bad model, of Martin Ball’s “nondual unity oneness awareness” model of what ego transcendence is about, my ability to choose my future is still fully real.

“vs per the Egodeath theory’s model, in which: to realize oneness is oneness with the ultimate control source, as a problematic control-source situation; so I as separate ego am not able to, I don’t have effectively causal power over my future, in light of this control-source above & behind me”.

26:31 The Nonduality of Your Control-Thoughts with the Source of all thoughts, Is The Real Actual Climactic Point – more scary threatening and profound than spatial connectedness. my ability to trust the ultimate control source, and whether i can trust it, whether I’m compelled to trust it, what would happen if I don’t trust it, it’s those kind of issues that really bring the raw power of psychedelic experiencing. ” – max

Revolution of the Footnotes
1:15:00

entheogens are buried in the “Not” underworld.

Footnote at bottom of page 1: “Religious mythology is NOT description-by-analogy of repeatedly taking psychedelics, producing transformation of the experiential mental worldmodel from literalist ordinary-state possibility-branching to analogical psychedelic pre-existence.”

End of Podcast

1:57:29

Orig the Egodeath Yahoo Group Posts of Commentary

digest 151 (not uploaded yet)

Group: egodeathMessage: 7856From: egodeathDate: 06/06/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast
Episode 3, 14:30

I advised MAPS to have a website. I have a Post-It Note from Cynthia around 1993 that reads like “Thank you for letting us know about the World Wide Web, I’ll look into getting a web site.” I plan to upload a pic. I was doing alot of hypertext system research 1989-1992, pre-Web.

I helped Martin Ball get into Podcasting. After the 2007 interview by Max Freakout, I spoke with Ball on the phone about podcasting.

— Michael Hoffman

Egodeath Yahoo Group – Digest 155: 2016-07-04

Site Map


Group: egodeath Message: 8099 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
Group: egodeath Message: 8100 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Priority of discovery, vs. introduction to ideas
Group: egodeath Message: 8101 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
Group: egodeath Message: 8102 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
Group: egodeath Message: 8103 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Theory development independent self-consistent for insiders
Group: egodeath Message: 8105 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast
Group: egodeath Message: 8106 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
Group: egodeath Message: 8107 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: There are no actual critiques of the Egodeath theory
Group: egodeath Message: 8108 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Esotericism infiltrating exoteric Academia
Group: egodeath Message: 8109 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Disappointed in recent entheogen books
Group: egodeath Message: 8110 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Cannabis swallowed in quantity feels like tripping
Group: egodeath Message: 8111 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
Group: egodeath Message: 8112 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Cannabis swallowed in quantity feels like tripping
Group: egodeath Message: 8113 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Psychedelic developmental psychology
Group: egodeath Message: 8114 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Psychedelic developmental psychology
Group: egodeath Message: 8115 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Psychedelic developmental psychology
Group: egodeath Message: 8116 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
Group: egodeath Message: 8117 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
Group: egodeath Message: 8118 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Psychedelic developmental psychology
Group: egodeath Message: 8119 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
Group: egodeath Message: 8121 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Psychedelics are our Christian Eucharist tradition
Group: egodeath Message: 8122 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Deciphered: tree vs. snake means Possibilism vs. Eternalism
Group: egodeath Message: 8124 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Enlightenment lite
Group: egodeath Message: 8125 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
Group: egodeath Message: 8126 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: War between the two traditions, exoteric and esoteric
Group: egodeath Message: 8127 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: War between the two traditions, exoteric and esoteric
Group: egodeath Message: 8128 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: War between the two traditions, exoteric and esoteric
Group: egodeath Message: 8129 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: Priority of discovery, vs. introduction to ideas
Group: egodeath Message: 8130 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: Logical Scientific Discovery
Group: egodeath Message: 8131 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Re: Priority of discovery, vs. introduction to ideas
Group: egodeath Message: 8132 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Holy Spirit = mushrooms
Group: egodeath Message: 8133 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8134 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8135 From: egodeath Date: 08/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8136 From: egodeath Date: 08/07/2016
Subject: Re: Suppression of entheogen basis of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 8137 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Parmenides’ mystic-state-based physical science
Group: egodeath Message: 8139 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Pocket computer-phone + clamshell keyboard + desktop peripherals
Group: egodeath Message: 8140 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Suppression of entheogen basis of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 8142 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Leary: The Seven Tongues of God
Group: egodeath Message: 8143 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Critique of popsike conferences
Group: egodeath Message: 8144 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Critique of popsike conferences
Group: egodeath Message: 8149 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: In praise and honor of Ayahuasca leaders
Group: egodeath Message: 8150 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: In praise and honor of Ayahuasca leaders
Group: egodeath Message: 8151 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8152 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8153 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8154 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8155 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Two modes of analysis: Possibilism and Eternalism
Group: egodeath Message: 8156 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Re: Two modes of analysis: Possibilism and Eternalism
Group: egodeath Message: 8157 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Repeal Prohibition for the Environment



Group: egodeath Message: 8099 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible

The Egodeath theory negates exotericism and affirms esotericism, across religions. The Egodeath theory is corroborated by Eastern religion and by Islam.

The Traditionalists are always Islamic — I read an explanation of why that is, an argument in terms of elimination. It could’ve been by Wouter Hanegraaff.

I am looking forward to reading Hanegraaff’s book about Esotericism and the Academy — he is the first to explain what bothered me, the strange Renaissance combination of Bible and Greco-Roman religious mythologies, the history of the dance between Catholic, Protestant, and Antiquarian projects.

To advocate Traditionalism, such as during the 1990s before September 11, 2001, Eastern religion wasn’t viable, Christianity wasn’t viable, Jewish religion wouldn’t work, … the only religion left as viable was esoteric/Sufi-type Islam.

The argument explained why all Traditionalists are stereotypically converts to Islam.

The fact that Traditionalism only fits with Islam, such that all advocates of Traditionalism converted to Islam, is telling, and shows that Traditionalism is incoherent, inconsistent, biased in favor of one of the old religions, though Traditionalism claims to favor all old religions.

Traditionalism ends up as crypto-Islamicism.

The Egodeath theory cannot be Traditionalism, because Traditionalism ends up (in self-contradictory fashion) favoring Islam, though Traditionalism *claims* that all old living religions are equivalent.

Traditionalism is false: Traditionalism claims that the only legitimate religions are those which are old.


The Egodeath theory is new, a new dispensation of revelation, that drew in 1986-1988 from the junkyard of existing, failed systems of Transcendent Knowledge, on a new basis from the Engineering STEM department mentality.

The Egodeath theory explains old religions, from the basis of a new religion coming from STEM thinking.

Thus the Egodeath theory is anti-Traditionalism; against equating religious legitimacy with being around for a long time.

When Islam was new, there was no traditionalism. Did Islam become more legitimate by degrees as the centuries rolled by?

There is a grain of truth, that duration of a religion legitimates the religion.

But a brand new authentic religion is possible, per aspects of Traditionalism: Traditionalism must hold that when old religions were first engineered, those at-the-time new religions must have been authentic, and duration merely confirmed their authenticity.

If (as Traditionalism claims) Christianity and Jewish religion and Islam were authentic when they were new, so can later new religions be authentic from the start.


I am best at revising and restoring Greek and Bible religion.

The first priority is to repair and restore understanding of Greco-Biblical Western religion (not Eastern, not Islam).

The Egodeath theory applies to world religion in all eras, including religion other than {Greek/Bible, Ancient Near East (ANE), and Mediterranean Antiquity}.


At the center of my site/target, is Greek and Bible religious mythology.

Just as a thorough demolishing of Wasson re: Allegro was a hard (non-optional) requirement, per my Plaincourault Wasson article, a thorough recovery of Greek and Bible religious mythology is a hard, non-optional requirement.

Then that achievement can be applied to Islam, in parallel fashion.


What do Traditionalists say, about their falsely Islam-centric “all old religions are the authentic Religion” story nowadays, when people debate Islam-associated violence?


Islam isn’t a top priority for the Egodeath theory.

Will enlightenment per the Egodeath theory save the world? Will I be the savior of Islam? I’m instead focusing on being the savior of Dionysus and Christ.

What is right and wrong with Sam Harris’ take?

Harris is half-baked: he is heading toward the Egodeath theory, but isn’t very far down that road.

Islam is a distraction for me, forcing itself to become a higher priority than it really is, for forming a theory of esoteric religion.

It would be good to read what Islamic esotericism has to say about Islam-associated violence, but that would be far more worthwhile when Islamic esotericists comprehend and apply the Egodeath theory.

It would be bad for the Egodeath theory to have weak explanatory coverage of Greek and Bible religious mythology, rushing off to critique malformed Islam.

Ahistoricity of Jesus is more important and urgent to explain, than ahistoricity of Mohammed.

My strategy is a rock-solid foundation of esoteric Greek and Bible religion, subsequently applicable to Islam.

The Egodeath theory is the biggest breakthrough in Eastern and Islam religion, but I dabble in those, and assert that the first order of business must be Greek and Bible religion, not Eastern and Islam religion.

I appreciate Sam Harris taking on Islam, but I’m not willing to invest the time reading all Sam Harris’ books and following his podcast, to form an informed adequate critique of Sam Harris.

When Sam Harris meets me half way, by studying and discussing the Egodeath theory, I might spend more time engaging him to identify more of what’s right and what’s wrong in Sam Harris regarding Islam and religion.

______

Postings that are critical of the Egodeath theory are not worth reading, and do more harm than good.

There are no real postings of substance that are critical of the Egodeath theory.

Any posting critical of the Egodeath theory is misrepresentative and specious; worthless idle criticism, uninformed, misrepresentative, misleading, unhelpful, irrelevant.

There are two kinds of postings:

o Criticisms of the Egodeath theory that are uninformed and misleading and poorly written.

o Affirmations of the Egodeath theory that are accurate and helpful and well-written.

Postings at the Egodeath Yahoo group by people other than me, weren’t very harmful or very helpful.

Writing on my own, by myself, worked for me in 1987, and worked for me at the Egodeath Yahoo group such as 2007-2016.

I opened a separate unmoderated Egodeath group, but I felt it risked contributing more harm than good, and I had to write a disclaimer that although I owned that unmoderated group, I cannot be seen as condoning or approving postings there.

The unmod Egodeath group died due to low participation, I think Yahoo terminated the group. I felt the unmod group to be more of a liability than a boon. Better to have a single clear voice, than “helping” by adding a giant heap of noise.

There is not a problem to be solved. I post, fast progress is made, no problem. There is no *need* for random noise voices to be added. Social networking is not needed, is not a lack, is not a problem to be solved.

It is just too high an expectation, to expect people to comprehend the Egodeath theory and write helpfully about it. Few people can meet those too-high requirements.

I do not want to help people write bad, misleading, misrepresentative posts about the Egodeath theory.

A few postings by other people have been solid contributions, including contributions to my main article — foremost in my mind is the mosaic or fresco of Dionysus’ wedding triumph, someone provided in the Egodeath or unmod group. And Max’s clarifying postings around the web.

So I have gone with a streamlined proven way that works and is not problematic: just me writing.

— Michael Hoffman
Group: egodeath Message: 8100 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Priority of discovery, vs. introduction to ideas
Poorly written posts by people who are good at misrepresenting the Egodeath theory, don’t understand the purpose of some of my presentation is not to persuade, but rather, to establish priority of discovery.

For example, my early December 2013 video lecture is to define my November 29, 2013 breakthrough — tree vs. snake = Possibilism vs. Eternalism — to define the breakthrough to establish priority of discovery.

Certainly not to persuade doubters.

My main article, too, was more motivated by establishing priority of discovery, rather than optimizing the main article to introduce and explain the ideas (that was a lower priority than greedy broad all-inclusive claiming of greatest area for priority of discovery).

— Michael Hoffman
Group: egodeath Message: 8101 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
I opened an Egodeath Unmoderated discussion group. It died due to low participation. I think Yahoo terminated the group.

This substantiates the merit of my only having the Yahoo Egodeath group, with only me posting. Generally, other people posting would just dilute my signal with noise.

Due to the conditions of Prohibition, and due to Academia’s commitment to Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism, few people have all the needed elements:

o Understand the Egodeath theory.
o Write well.
o Willing and able to publically write about the Egodeath theory including Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8102 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
Academia is outsiders to esotericism. Institutions are outsiders to esotericism. They are exoteric outsiders opposed to esotericism.

The default position we all start with is Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism. The majority of people stay in the initial, immature innate mental mode, of Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism.

When the Egodeath theory is not available, and psychedelic loosecog is suppressed, only a tiny minority of people move on towards the subsequent, mature innate mental mode, of Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

Society and institutions remain against esotericism. Predominant exotericism, outsider mis-religion, suppresses esotericism, insiders’, true (bona fide, actual, source) religion.

Academia can be counted on to reject Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism, because they are outsiders, and this is how outsiders think; this is what outsiders do.

Of course outsiders think mixed wine is water-diluted alcohol wine: that’s inherent in outsider cluelessness, misled. The New Testament mocks outsiders, literalists.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8103 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Theory development independent self-consistent for insiders
Google’s banner graphic image for July 4, 2016 is a U.S. flag, with the 50 stars doing 4th of July activities.

I don’t see a star tripping or high, but near the center near the kite flying star, is a star in sitting meditation, indicating that sitting meditation is an American activity.

This star sitting in meditation can be read as ‘religion’ and ‘the religious altered state’.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8105 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast
About the Transcendent Knowledge Podcast

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23379780
Group: egodeath Message: 8106 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
The obstructions to covering the Egodeath theory in Academia, is the problem of insiders going up against outsiders.

The history of religion is the history of a tug-of-war between mystics and profiteering officials, between the esoteric source of religion, and exoteric repurposing of religion to turn it into profit, partly through artificial scarcity of the mystic altered state.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8107 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: There are no actual critiques of the Egodeath theory
There are no actual critiques of the Egodeath theory.

There are two kinds of postings:

o Criticisms of the Egodeath theory that are uninformed, vague, misleading, and poorly written.

o Affirmations of the Egodeath theory that are informed, specific, clear, accurate, helpful, and well-written.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8108 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Esotericism infiltrating exoteric Academia
Esotericism infiltrating exoteric Academia

Insiders infiltrating outsiders’ Academia

The alliance of the Egodeath theory and Western Esotericism against establishment Academia

In the battle between Protestantism and Catholicism in the history of Academia, Esotericism had to be eliminated.

Esotericism and the Academy: Rejected Knowledge in Western Culture
Wouter Hanegraaff
http://amazon.com/dp/1107680972
2014

Books by Wouter Hanegraaff
https://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_adv_b/?search-alias=stripbooks&field-author=Wouter+Hanegraaff
Group: egodeath Message: 8109 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Disappointed in recent entheogen books
Recent entheogen books are written by robots. They just regurgitate narratives:

The psychotherapy narrative.

The neuroscience narrative.

The damned Marsh Chapel Johns Hopkins narrative.

The Eleusis narrative (“People say there are no psychedelics in religion. But there is one exception: Eleusis.”)


Shut up about Marsh Chapel, it has become an obstruction, a hindrance, same as Eleusus. Does the world need another recounting of Marsh Chapel?

Is the author of an article on psychedelics eternally obliged to recount Marsh Chapel, in every single article from now until the end of time? Enough! Is that all you’ve got? Is this the best we can do? What’s the point, of writing the ten thousandth article recounting the damned Marsh Chapel yet again?

People are meme-propagation dummies. People don’t think; they recite narratives. Narrative-spouting robots:

“Protect the children from drugs.”

“The War on Drugs is a failure and its objectives should be reached through adjustments such as Decrim.”

“Psychedelics can simulate traditional meditation.”

Are we really condemned to the end of time to repeat ad nauseum yet another recounting of Marsh Chapel? I’m figuratively burning Marsh Chapel to the ground.

You too can write yet another modern enlightened article about psychedelics. It’s all a bad formula. Just copy all the other writers:

A passage about Marsh Chapel. A passage about psychedelic psychotherapy. A passage about fMRI scans of the tripping brain.

All the books are just rearrangements of the same mediocre content of all the other articles and books. People don’t think; they just permit memes to take over their minds and pens.

Books about psychedelics have become totally repetitive and formulaic. They just endlessly rework and rearrange all of the same little set of ideas, combining the prepackaged, approved, pat narratives — no thinking required.

— Michael Hoffman, narrative-spouting robot
Group: egodeath Message: 8110 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Cannabis swallowed in quantity feels like tripping
Hypothesis: eating or swallowing cannabis in quantity feels similar to tripping on psychedelics, such as psilocybin capsules; cannabis swallowed in quantity feels like tripping.

Compare psilocybin mushroom capsules to cannabis capsules.

History of cannabis in religion tends toward swallowing, not inhaling.

Bad trips on cannabis tend to be from swallowing, not inhaling. Bad trips are a sign of entheogens. Though I heavily qualify “bad”, as the “dragon/snake” that is concomitant with “seeking the pearl of enlightenment”.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8111 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day

From my main article:

The Role of Democracy for Ecstatic Danger

The proper role for representative democracy regarding drugs is to work out how visionary plants and psychoactive substances are to be healthily integrated into mainstream culture, making dissociative-state religious initiation as ergonomic and as safe as possible.

Drugs are not a problem to be eliminated and suppressed, but a means of maturing to be channeled.


The Supreme Court of the United States has recognized the legitimacy of Peyote and Ayahuasca in worship; these plants have the same effects as LSD and Psilocybe mushrooms, including causing the person’s power of will and power of self-control to become seized and then restored in a religiously transformed configuration.


The threat of the encounter with the power of the divine is, specifically, the threat of loss of control of one’s thoughts when studying self-knowledge in the ecstatic state.

This inherent danger of entheogens is inherent in the encounter with the power that transcends our personal control of our will.

This danger is mitigated by having a systematic model of personal control agency, in conjunction with mastering the skilled use of entheogens and understanding how past cultures have accommodated this danger.

This necessary danger that is inherent in the encounter with the power of the divine is the gateway to mature religious knowledge.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com

http://egodeath.com/EntheogenTheoryOfReligion.htm#_Toc177337614


The Politics of Consciousness : A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Steve Kubby
http://amazon.com/dp/189362644X
1995

Entheogens, Society & Law: Towards a Politics of Consciousness, Autonomy & Responsibility
Daniel Waterman, Casey William Hardison
http://amazon.com/dp/190864561X
2013

The Universal Declaration of the Human Right to Direct Spiritual Experience
Martin Ball
https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Universal+Declaration+of+the+Human+Right+to+Direct+Spiritual+Experience


freedom liberty psychedelic
https://www.google.com/search?q=freedom+liberty+psychedelic

freedom liberty entheogen
https://www.google.com/search?q=freedom+liberty+entheogen

Cognitive Liberty psychedelic
https://www.google.com/search?q=cognitive+liberty+psychedelic

Cognitive Liberty entheogen
https://www.google.com/search?q=cognitive+liberty+entheogen
Group: egodeath Message: 8112 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Cannabis swallowed in quantity feels like tripping
Is the hero’s journey a bad trip?

Does the hero’s journey include a bad trip?

The hero’s journey includes an epic encounter with a threatening monster, typically with snake-shaped elements.

The hero’s journey is a bad trip in that it includes an epic encounter with the threatening snake-shaped control-rail worldline, an encounter with Eternalism’s sacrifice of {the Possibilism steersman steering into the possibility-branching world with open future}.

The hero’s journey is a bad trip: it kills {the Possibilism steersman steering into the possibility-branching world with open future}.

The hero’s journey kills the Possibilism steersman steering into the possibility-branching world with open future.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8113 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Psychedelic developmental psychology
Psychedelic developmental psychology

Psychedelic transpersonal developmental psychology

The hero’s journey kills the Possibilism steersman steering into the possibility-branching world with open future, and gains maturity, wisdom, enlightenment, divine blessing, compatibility with the divine, regeneration, a new, durable, flexible, bi-modal, consistent mental world model of self-in-world.

The personal control app v1.0 had a bug where it failed when exposed to loosecog. v2.0 fixes this bug. The personal control app no longer fails when exposed to the loose cognitive association binding state.


The Egodeath theory is not so much a theory about how reality / ontology really is. The Egodeath theory is a theory about how the mind works, psychological development from the initial innate mental structure, of Possibilism, to the subsequent innate mental structure, of Eternalism.

The mind develops from Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism to Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

The mind has two modes of functioning: the Possibilism, and the Eternalism state of consciousness and mental worldmodel.

When switched from tight to temporary loose cognitive binding, the default, Possibilism mental model is impacted and corrected and reshaped (the {scourged} mytheme), producing the Eternalism mental model.

Loosecog is the traditional classical psychedelic altered state.

How is the world shaped: Possibilism, or Eternalism?
Practically equivalent:
How is the mental worldmodel shaped: Possibilism, or Eternalism?

The mental worldmodel is shaped first as Possibilism (youthful, immature folly), then as Eternalism (adult, mature wisdom).

Most people are mental children: Possibilist, literalist, single-state, ignorant of the loose cognitive state and what it reveals: Eternalism. Everyone starts out thinking this way. A subset of people move on to the mature phase of mental development.

With the clear, Science-compatible Egodeath theory in hand, it is easier, faster, and more complete, to change the mental worldmodel of self-in-world from Possibilism to Eternalism. More of a binary switch:

One day, you only know Possibilism.
The next day, you also know Eternalism, and you qualify Possibilism.

No one switches from initial belief in Eternalism, to a subsequent belief in Possibilism. My theory of psychospiritual development is like a diode vacuum tube: electrical current only flows one direction.

The mind develops from Possibilism to Eternalism, not from Eternalism to Possibilism.

A Possibilism mind is an immature mind.
An Eternalism mind is a mature mind.

The Egodeath theory is the *entheogenic* theory of transpersonal developmental psychology. Entheogens switch the mental worldmodel from Possibilism to Eternalism.

The human developmental stages are like a butterfly’s transformation: innate mental structures, first one, then the other comes in, triggered by exposure to loosecog. Possibilism, then Eternalism — as a sequence of innate mental configurations.

Because the Eternalism mental configuration is innate, it can be triggered by many things. The primary trigger of manifesting or “blossoming” the innate Eternalism mental configuration is psychedelics.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8114 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Psychedelic developmental psychology
As a way of triggering {the manifesting or “blossoming” of the innate Eternalism mental configuration}, psychedelics are easier, faster, and more complete than other ways.

As a way to cause the innate Eternalism mental structuring to manifest:
Meditation is ineffective: difficult, slow, and causes incomplete transformation.
Psychedelics are effective: easy, fast, and complete. Antiquity used psilocybin wine efficiently.

It should be no longer necessary to refute meditation and the malformed worldview ‘meditation’ takes under the totally distorting conditions of Prohibition.

The Egodeath theory vs. the meditation paradigm (during Prohibition)

The Egodeath theory vs. the Prohibition-era meditation paradigm

Per books about “Can Psychedelics Simulate Meditation?”, Americans got popularly interested in meditation after 1966 because psychedelics were outlawed. That’s meditation as created and shaped by Prohibition. Meditation is a product of Prohibition.

California Governor Reagan and President Nixon created American popular meditation, by outlawing psychedelics.

Reagan and Nixon created meditation by outlawing psychedelics. Prohibition then pressured and shaped meditation into existence as a displacement of and replacement for psychedelics, condoned by the Establishment.

The Prohibition-shaped popular version of Meditation largely competes against psychedelics, as a substitute.

The Catholic church institution largely competes against psychedelics, as a substitute, insofar as the fake Eucharist substitutes for the psilocybin Eucharist.

Which religion are you for:

Fake, bunk, ineffective Eastern religion that makes grand promises and delivers little?

Fake, bunk, ineffective Western religion that makes grand promises and delivers little?

Eastern junk religion is the same thing as Western junk religion: substitutes for the entheogen origin and ongoing wellspring of religion.

The solution to junk Western religion is not Eastern religion, but authentic, bona fide Western religion that makes claims and immediately, fully delivers on those claims, as with psychedelics together with the Egodeath theory.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8115 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Psychedelic developmental psychology
Americans were so averse to converting from exotericism to esotericism, they ran away (in avoidance of that change) to Eastern religion, to put off, avoid, and delay killing exoteric Christianity.

Instead of drastically changing from exoteric Christianity to esoteric Christianity, people ran away to the East, avoiding the revelation of esoteric wisdom and exoteric folly. The East became just another substitution and avoidance mechanism, a way of avoiding the switch from childish to adult thinking.

Western childish thinkers, Eastern childish thinkers, no difference. Low Science, low religion, single-state Philosophy — this is the world of mental children, the outsiders. Meditation is the religion of outsiders, psychospiritual children, an avoidance and substitution project.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8116 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/03/psychedelic-drugs/471603/

Walsh: There was an extensive U.K. government study carried out in 2010 by a team under David Nutt that measured various substances in terms of harms to society and the individual. … psychedelic drugs in particular were at the opposite end of that scale showing very low risk of harm.

Morin: Did the government refute the study or did they ignore it?

Walsh: They basically ignored it. … The government’s response to the Nutt study has been that drug policy isn’t based solely on science, it’s also based on cultural and historical precedent.

[There, is the Death Star vulnerability to destroy Prohibition. Evidence+interpretation shows our own religion sets the cultural and historical precedent: no Prohibition of drugs, was the cultural and religious tradition to 1900.

The recent invention of Prohibition, by the upstart evil empire of lies, violates our own tradition.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com ]

Morin: Is that an admission that the harm-based justification for prohibition no longer applies?

Walsh: It’s certainly evidence that it’s applied inconsistently and arbitrarily.

From a human-rights-based perspective, everybody’s rights should be protected equally unless there’s a good reason why you’re treating a group differently.

I don’t think that saying “culturally and historically this is what we’ve always done” is legitimate.

You can’t say that about racial discrimination, for instance.

Morin: So, the current argument is that illegal drugs are bad because they’re illegal?

Walsh: Basically, and it goes beyond that.

We have a recently elected Conservative government in the U.K., and they’ve produced something called the Psychoactive Substances Act.

It’s a piece of legislation that renders it unlawful to trade in any substance capable of producing a psychoactive effect of any kind regardless of harm or benefit.

If you read the text of the Act, it’s extraordinary, most notably its lack of any reference to the concept of harm.

/
Group: egodeath Message: 8117 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
“I don’t think that saying “culturally and historically this is what we’ve always done” is legitimate.”

Vague, poor writing/thinking, that helps Prohibition.

Is “this” supposed to refer to Prohibition, which is actually very recently created, like 1966?

Would-be drug policy reformers should not refer to entheogen Prohibition as “What we’ve always done.”

The Prohibitionists have won: Reformers are shooting themselves in the foot spreading incoherent self-contradiction.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8118 From: egodeath Date: 04/07/2016
Subject: Re: Psychedelic developmental psychology
The Passion of Christ describes psychedelics causing transformation from Possibilism to Eternalism:

dispute about kingship

sacred meal, cup of wrath

trembling apprehension

trial judgment testing

release of twin prisoner

scourging (correction of Possibilism thinking)

crucifixion, fastened to tree (physical fastening embeddedness into spacetime block)

death (collapse of Possibilism illusion upon experientially perceiving Eternalism)

resurrection, ascension

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8119 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Purpose of July 4th U.S. Independence Day
While holding your head perfectly still, press these buttons to indicate how you feel about the present posting:

O INTENSITY

O SIMPLE HALLUCINATIONS

O COMPLEX HALLUCINATIONS

O EMOTIONAL AROUSAL

O EGO DISSOLUTION

___________________________________

Merrill Ward has a good slide-deck-based presentation about entheogen history.

I suggested and recommended to MAPS in the early 90s that they create a Web site on the new, World-Wide Web. I have the follow-up Post-it Note from them to that effect.

Found at MAPS website:

Cognitive Liberty & the Freedom of Consciousness
Merrill Ward
June 13, 2016
The Aware Project (www.awareproject.org) hosts a series of monthly Psychedelic Awareness Salon events, balancing the conversation about psychedelics.
____________

Cognitive Liberty & the Freedom of Consciousness

Freedom & Liberty are two of the most profound principles and ideals that our country is founded upon. Yet, our freedom of consciousness & thought and how we choose to safely alter and influence our consciousness; especially in terms of the utilization of new emerging technologies, psychedelic medicines and entheogenic sacraments, is not currently recognized as a protected right within the United States and most of the world.

The continuing draconian policies and repression caused by our country and the world’s 40+ year, failed “War on Drugs” continues to cause irreparable damage to the health & well-being of our society while imprisoning millions for minor drug related offenses.

It is high time for a change in our country’s drug policy and for a dynamic re-thinking and shift of our approaches to these vital issues.

/Merrill Ward (Western Mystery School tradition, comparative world religions)

Merrill Ward advocates:
o Cognitive liberty.
o Articulating and transmitting esoteric wisdom, by ceremony, ontology, noetic experiences, & metaphor.
o Safe use of entheogens for engendering spiritual experience.

Engendering — like when Semele perceived Zeus’ power over her, she died, double-engendering Dionysus, andro-gyne, with satyr and maenad followers. Zeus carried Dionysus to term, sewn into his thigh. Zeus was pregnant with Dionysus. Zeus gave birth to Dionysus from his thigh.

(Zeus gave birth to Athena through his head.)

The divinized person is an andro-gyne, when you make the man like the woman and the woman like the man.

Divinization is male-female, according to our own, Western, Mediterranean Antiquity, Bible tradition of describing the traditional, psychedelic Eucharist.

Western Esotericism metaphorically describes the psychedelic altered state.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8121 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Psychedelics are our Christian Eucharist tradition
Psychedelics are the Christian Eucharist tradition, therefore repeal Prohibition.

Psychedelics are our Christian tradition.
Psychedelics are our Greek tradition.

Psychedelics are the tradition in our Christian religion, in the true, esoteric version of our own religion.

Psychedelics are the Eucharist in the original Christian tradition, and in Western ongoing traditional inspiration.

Therefore repeal Prohibition.


On the Harm Reduction argument, drug Prohibition repealers win, and Prohibitionists lose.

On the Tradition argument, drug Prohibition repealers win, and Prohibitionists lose.

On the Cognitive Liberty argument, drug Prohibition repealers win, and Prohibitionists lose.

On every argument, drug Prohibition repealers win, and Prohibitionists lose.

There is every reason and argument in the world to repeal Prohibition.


Drug Prohibition repealers were formerly called by the weak, ineffective, compromised term “drug policy reformers”.

A “drug policy reformer” negotiates whether to scourge a druggie/sorceror before crucifying them.

A *drug Prohibition repealer* leaves druggies/sorcerors in peace and freedom.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8122 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Deciphered: tree vs. snake means Possibilism vs. Eternalism
November 29, 2013 was my {tree vs. snake means Possibilism vs. Eternalism} super-breakthrough, and Alex Grey’s 60th birthday party with flier:

http://realitysandwich.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/A-CoSM-party-flyer-showing-Alex-Greys-art.jpg
Group: egodeath Message: 8124 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Enlightenment lite
Enlitenment vs. Enlightenment

Instead of shining light on the veiled uncontrollable source of the mind’s control-thoughts, popular, low-grade theory gives an alternate, substitute, Lite version of enlightenment, which means, some Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism simulation of religion.

Enlitenment: Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism

Enlightenment: Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism

Enlitenment remains stuck in Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism, which doesn’t satisfy the drive/appetite for experiencing and retaining Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

Enlightenment satisfies the drive/appetite for experiencing and retaining Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

The mind’s appetite, desire, and drive for enlightenment is connected with perceiving the (snake-shaped worldline) threat and dependence, of personal control power, and having to change thinking about personal control, in light of perceiving dependence on the mind’s uncontrollable source of control-thoughts.

Multiple senses and perspectives converge, in profoundly experiencing cybernetic death, transformation, and rebirth.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8125 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: Re: Islam/Eastern lower pri than Greek/Bible
The Egodeath theory is a major breakthrough for comprehending {Islam and Eastern religion} as esoteric metaphor for entheogens revealing Eternalism.

My central focus is:

The Egodeath theory is a major breakthrough for comprehending {Greek mythology and mystery religion and the Bible} as esoteric metaphor for entheogens revealing Eternalism.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8126 From: egodeath Date: 05/07/2016
Subject: War between the two traditions, exoteric and esoteric
War between the two traditions, exoteric and esoteric

Our Christian exoteric tradition is Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism.

Our recent Christian habit (*not* a tradition, *not* “how we’ve always done it”, is Literalist Antidrug Possibilism.

Our Christian esoteric tradition is Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

“The Christian tradition is non-drug Eucharist.”

That’s only true for our exoteric Christian tradition. But the New Testament mocks and ridicules clueless exoteric outsiders.

The Christian tradition is the psilocybin Eucharist, as our esoteric Christian tradition, for insiders.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8127 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: War between the two traditions, exoteric and esoteric
Exotericists argue “Christianity lacks a tradition of psychedelics. Therefore Prohibition has cultural precedence, on the Tradition argument. We have a tradition of Prohibition since 1966.”

The exoteric model inherently naturally takes it as granted that religion is nondrug and antidrug; Literalist Antidrug Possibilism.

The views across various topics align and group into two or three typical assumption-sets. Like {two races}.

To outsiders, the Bible is about free moral agency: dividing good vs. bad egoic steersmen.

To insiders, the Bible is about no-free-will, seeing the illusory misconceived aspect of moral agency; Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

Insiders recognize the dividing in the Bible as dividing into those who are entheogen-transformed vs. those who are still shaped as egoic steersmen.

Views (exoteric/esoteric thinking) align on:
o Freewill moral agency
o The purpose of religion
o Psychedelics in our religion’s history
o Historicity of our religion’s ancient founder figure
o Metaphoricity of religious mythology
o Possibility branching


Throughout the frozen spacetime block is some exoteric religion and some esoteric religion, locked in similarity and struggle.

Exoteric religion has some resistance to esoteric religion.

Egoic, exoteric, Possibilism-thinking (Possibilism experiencing)
has some resistance to
transcendent, esoteric, Eternalism-thinking (Eternalism experiencing).

Possibilism-thinking’s resistance to Eternalism-thinking is frozen in block time per Godel, Einstein, Minkowski, and Parmenides.

Exoteric culture’s resistance to esoteric thinking is frozen in block time per Godel, Einstein, Minkowski, and Parmenides.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8128 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: War between the two traditions, exoteric and esoteric
Exoteric thinkers assume Christianity doesn’t describe and come from mushrooms.

Esoteric thinkers recognize that Christianity describes and comes from mushrooms.

Mushrooms reveal frozen tension between exo vs. eso assumption-sets.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com

Book: The Psychedelic Gospels
Group: egodeath Message: 8129 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: Priority of discovery, vs. introduction to ideas
My motivations for writing:

o Pave the way for Cognitive Science to study the loose cognitive association mode, including studying control dynamics during the Eternalism experiential state.

o Provide a timestamped record of my idea development 2001-2016, useful for Philosophy of Science, or for Cognitive Science of Science.

o Priority of discovery.

Define “satisfactory” knowledge and exploration of control dynamics.

What idea is like looking at the sun? Looking at the uncontrollable source of control-thoughts, testing control dependency on the creator of block time.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8130 From: egodeath Date: 06/07/2016
Subject: Re: Logical Scientific Discovery
Beatles’ self-censorship PR strategy
https://cyberdisciple.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/1507/
Group: egodeath Message: 8131 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Re: Priority of discovery, vs. introduction to ideas
The mythic hero’s mushroom-wine journey is from Possibilism to Eternalism and back, but transformed and mentally replaced.

The Motor City Madman says
You might not come back

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8132 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Holy Spirit = mushrooms
Holy Spirit = mushrooms

Diminishing mushrooms is diminishing the Holy Spirit.

Protestant author Dave Hunt had the good sense to critique psychedelics with caution, and avoid a stance against psychedelics. I read that in a book by him in a Christian bookstore around 2000.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8133 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary thread.
Group: egodeath Message: 8134 From: egodeath Date: 07/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Episode 3 at the end: Martin Ball combines New Age and psychedelics (the altered state)

“new age hippie dippie spirituality lacks entheogens in the pop spiritual new age paradigm”
Not lacks; occludes and censors.

Entheogenic Esotericism
Wouter Hanegraaff
https://www.google.com/search?q=Entheogenic+Esotericism
New Age writers censored their psychedelics inspiration, to be Prohibition-compliant.
_________

Prohibition of psychedelics is prohibition of bona fide, traditional, esoteric, insiders’ Christianity and a requirement that people remain in the childish stage of thinking, unregenerate, accursed and under condemnation, incompatible with the divine.

Prohibition mandates exoteric, outsiders’ religion and forbids esoteric, insiders’ religion.

Freedom of religion is allowing mental maturation through repeated exposure to the mushroid Eucharist.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com

Ep. 3
“entheogen history studies” defined as a field
Group: egodeath Message: 8135 From: egodeath Date: 08/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Carhart-Harris quotes, from the video _Psilocybin and the Psychedelic State_, per Max

47:19

People often refer to “ego disintegration”, or “ego dissolution”.

And what’s interesting about these hubs in the brain is that there’s increasing neuroscientific evidence that they’re part of a network which seems to subserve our sense of self (or our ego, if you prefer that term).

When people describe ego disintegration, when we’re looking at the biology with our neuroimaging methods, we are actually seeing a literal disintegration of this network.

And so if you think that this network is the self, we are seeing a literal disintegration of the self.


54:02

If recreational use was all done in a controlled and mediated way, perhaps if people could go to centers or organized places where they could have a psychedelic experience mediated in the right way, even if they aren’t psychologically unwell, I think there would be a case for that, but the key thing is that the experience has to be mediated properly.

______________________

Transcendent Knowledge Podcast, Episode 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDCNo3URuhA

Centers:
Eleusis
agape meals
house churches
forest circles
Cognitive Science research labs, overseen by legitimately laurel-crowned Professors.
authentic zendos

Today’s professors are a travesty of learning, wearing the laurels while knowing nothing of Dionysus, Apollo, dragon, aiming arrows, nor shrubs from trees.

Today’s university is low education, an affront to bona fide higher education.

Education is the reshaping of the mind into its mature, adult, developed form, through repeated immersion in the fire of the mushroom-induced loose cognitive binding state, such as by redosing with psilocybin capsules or mushroom-infused wine.

In 2016, university education has the Egodeath theory in hand, for actual maturation through multi-state education, efficiently sacrificing ignorant childish thinking like incoming seminary students.

First quarter of seminary, students learn: “Everything in pop Christianity is wrong. Here is the reality and evidence, the coherent scholarly consensus.”

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8136 From: egodeath Date: 08/07/2016
Subject: Re: Suppression of entheogen basis of religion
Joe Rogan and Graham Hancock have each been asked to omit the topic of entheogens.
7:26
https://youtu.be/B4f-GvR72RE
Group: egodeath Message: 8137 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Parmenides’ mystic-state-based physical science
A World Without Time: The Forgotten Legacy of Godel and Einstein
Palle Yourgrau
http://amazon.com/dp/0465092942
Godel asserted Eternalism.

A group of books say self is a myth.
A group of books say freewill is a myth.
A group of books say time is a myth.

If self, time, and control are not what they seem to be, compare and contrast illusion vs. reality of these: the initial Possibilism vs. the later Eternalism mental world models of self, freewill, time, and control.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8139 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Pocket computer-phone + clamshell keyboard + desktop peripherals
The challenge I’ve increasingly solved since about 2010 is to do leading-edge web scholarship and idea development, while using a pocket computer-phone, frequently supplemented with peripherals.

Lately half my postings are iPhone with soft keyboard, and half are iPhone with physical keyboard.

Peripherals include earbuds with control-buttons, physical keyboard, phone stand, rigid folder as a lap-top clamshell equivalent.

This post includes a list of iPhone keyboard shortcuts for Safari and Notes.


To compose posts, I am currrently using either the iPhone soft keyboard, or iPhone with standard (not “mobile”) physical keyboard:

o Apple iPhone 6 Plus (5.5″ touchscreen iOS pocket computer/phone)

o ikross portable folding mini-stand for phone

o Apple Magic Keyboard (Bluetooth, for OS-X but works with iOS)

o Stand and keyboard on a table, stand at a 45 degree angle.
or
o Stand and keyboard on a rigid folder on lap, the stand rigged to a 15 degree angle.


I have a single, almost consistent keyboard layout for 4 setups:

o Computer lap-top: Apple Macbook Keyboard layout + OS-X touchpad.

o Computer desk-top: Apple Magic Keyboard + OS-X mouse.

o Phone lap-top: Apple Magic Keyboard + iOS touchscreen. Stand (15 degrees) and keyboard on a rigid folder.

o Phone desk-top: Apple Magic Keyboard + iOS touchscreen. Stand (45 degrees) and keyboard on table.


Deviant: not using the Apple Magic Keyboard or Apple Macbook keyboard:
o Phone hand-top: iOS soft keyboard + iOS touchscreen.


Typing into my phone with a standard keyboard is easier and more efficient to type than a “mobile” keyboard.

I have been keyboarding intently on Mac keyboards since 1988 (and PC since 1987).


iOS keyboard shortcuts are few. There is too thin a straw between keyboard and iOS.

We need the best keyboard support possible, for smartphones — a high priority.

There is *huge* untapped potential for pocket computer-phones, low-hanging fruit is supporting lots of well-designed keyboard shortcut key-combinations.

Most urgently needed and missing now is Command+Tab to switch among running apps.

___________________________
iOS keyboard shortcuts:

Notes (text editor) app:
Command+N — New note-file
Command+UpArrow — Move cursor to top of doc
Command+DownArrow — Move cursor to bottom of doc
Shift+Option+DownArrow — Select more text while scroll
Option+ DownArrow — Move cursor to end of next paragraph (fast scrolling)
Command+B — Bold
Command+U — Underline
(Command+I fails to Italicize, b/c app doesn’t support italics)

Safari (web browser):
Command+[ — Back
Command+] — Forward
Control+Tab — Switch tabs
Command+T — New tab
Command+L — URL field
Command+F — Find In Page
Command+W — Close tab
Command+UpArrow — Top of webpage
Command+DownArrow — Bottom of webpage
Option+UpArrow — Page up
Option+DownArrow — Page down
Command+R — Reload

Monitor the evolving keyboard shortcuts for iPad. iPhone trails that. Designers use wrong-scenario thinking when designing for the iPhone, but sensible, future-looking thinking when designing for the iPad.

Designers, stop thinking of “pocket-sized” when it comes to iPhone peripherals. The whole point is that we need *bigger* than pocket-sized, for peripherals; the peripherals are supposed to get away from cramped pocket sized, not trap us further into cramped pocket-sized UI/HCI peripherals.

I have been getting far better at using a physical keyboard with mobile touchscreen device. Developing this futuristic tech skill has required investing time and attention to learn and discover the effective UI usage method for this setup.

For example, I have discovered an effective way to use iPhone to transcribe audio to text: use Pause function of earbuds to pause an audio/video player in a window that’s not shown, while using TextEdit app to type. Pause and type at each group of 5 spoken words.

(Without peripherals, I’ve gotten better at voice dictation + soft keyboard.)

“Phone” or “smartphone” or “phablet” is better thought of, moving forward, as “pocket computer-phone”. Instead of “smart phone”, think “computer phone”, or “pocket-sized, cell-tower networked, computer, with phone number assigned to it”.

I’m still working on bringing my keyboarding skill up to the very high level of Windows (based in IBM’s Presentation Manager) with split ergo keyboard, using Apple’s poorer keyboarding-support design for OS-X and iOS.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8140 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Suppression of entheogen basis of religion
Joe Rogan and Graham Hancock have been asked to omit entheogens.

Transcribed by Michael Hoffman using iPhone 6 Plus (5.5″ 400 DPI display), Apple Magic Keyboard, and JVC in-ear earbuds with Pause button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4f-GvR72RE&feature=youtu.be

Joe Rogan:
We have this incredible ally that our culture, our society, we have this amazing plant thing that we’ve discovered in several different forms. And we’ve made all of them outside of our reach, we’ve put all of them outside legal reach, which is insane. It’s insane.

Graham Hancock:
It makes you wonder what’s going on. Why is society on this self-destructive trip right now?

Joe Rogan:
They’re ignorant. I believe, and it sounds crazy, but I believe this: I believe that psychedelics are here for human beings to take to move to a new level of consciousness, and they can elevate us from our war-like ways. It’s the only thing. I don’t think ideology/morality shifts with understanding, with the exchange of information; I think morality escalates slowly but surely all throughout culture, and eventually we may get to a time in the future where we’re not war-like at all. But the best way to do that is through psychedelics.

Graham Hancock:
Psychedelics can help, yeah.

Joe Rogan:
The people who are involved in the running of things most likely are ignorant to the experience. And so what you’re dealing with is someone who is 50-60 years into a life-long, closed off, ego-trip of death and destruction, and they’re the ones that are running the world.

Graham Hancock:
Unfortunately, they’re the ones that are running the world.

Joe Rogan:
*That’s* why we’re so f*cked. We’re not so f*cked because humans are evil, and when you look around at all the nice people that you meet, you get really confused as to how the world can be so f*cked up.

Graham Hancock:
How can it be so f*cked up, when people are basically good?

Joe Rogan:
Most people are good. But the people that are running sh*t, most of ’em are not good.

Graham Hancock:
Yeah, and they get like into personality types, like I mean if you want to run sh*t, then right there you’ve got a certain kind of personality.

Joe Rogan:
Yeah. Anybody that wants to be president should not be allowed to be president.

Graham Hancock:
Exactly. That should be an instant disqualification. You should be absolutely not wanting that job.

Joe Rogan:
It’s just a person: you have random qualifications as far as your education as far as your background.

Graham Hancock:
Not some power-hungry egomaniac who wants to push you around, which is unfortunately the case. So I’ve thought and I’ve made this proposal several times, that what I would like to see is that anybody running for high office, first right off they’ve got to do 10 Ayahuasca sessions.

Joe Rogan:
That’s a great idea.

Graham Hancock:
That’s the first hurdle. They’ve got to do that, they’ve got to go through it, and we’ll see how they feel afterwards. Could be 10 strong mushroom sessions, that would be just as good. But they’ve got to be able to do that.

Joe Rogan:
You know what’s really crazy? The solution exists, to a better world. It exists, it exists right here. It’s not like we, “Well imagine, if some benevolent race from another planet came down here and gifted us with some space fruit, and if we eat this space fruit, we’ll see ourselves for who we truly are and right there, and we’ll recognize our potential.”

Graham Hancock:
Right there in that concept which many people hold, they’re letting go of their responsibility for their own lives, you know.

Joe Rogan:
Yes, yes. But if you told people that, you would go “Wow, that would be great — but, it’s science fiction.” Well the exact thing *exists*, with Ayahuasca, with psychedelic mushrooms, it exists.
______
[7:28] And for whatever reason, you know discussing it is a very controversial thing.

Graham Hancock:
Very controversial.

Joe Rogan:
It is very controversial, like I’ve had producers ask me like tv shows that I’m working on, “Why are you talking about illegal drugs?”

Graham Hancock:
I’ve been asked to stay away from those subjects.

Joe Rogan:
Of course. “Don’t talk, you’re going to f*ck up this whole thing. This ancient archaeology, I think you’re onto something Graham; I think you’ve done some good work. But leave the mushrooms out, buddy.”

Graham Hancock:
Exactly. I’ve had that conversation.

Joe Rogan:
“Come on, Graham. You don’t need the mushrooms. We’re making some money over here, Graham!” It exists.

Graham Hancock:
And I think that was part of the problem with my TED talk too.
______

Joe Rogan:
Yeah. We could live in a Narnia world. We could live in a world like Avatar, if everybody was doing Ayahuasca, we could pull this world together with a rapid quickness, if they just broke out Ayahuasca ceremonies all over the globe, if it became the Next Big Thing, sort of like cellphones. Everybody’s got Ayahuasca ceremonies on every corner, you could change the whole world within our lifetime in an astounding loving way, where people would abandon so many of their ideas about business and so many of their ideas about controlling resources and killing people.

Graham Hancock:
You know the amazing thing is that it is already happening. It is already happening. Admittedly on a small scale, but for me this is one of the mysteries of Ayahuasca: At a time when the Amazon jungle is under such terrible threat [due to Coca Prohibition? -mh] that out of the jungle emerged these two plants, one of which is a vine, which then begins to spread her tentacles all around the planet and to call out to people. And people are *drawn* to Ayahuasca. I can’t tell you how often I get asked, “Where do I go for a good Ayahuasca ceremony, where I know I can trust the shaman?” again and again. It’s happening everywhere: It’s happening in Japan; it’s happening in America; it’s happening in Germany; it’s happening all over the world. And so you get a small but growing group of initiates who have had this shared experience, and you know we kind of know each other when we meet.

Joe Rogan:
And the initiates that have had this experience are talking about it and more are coming. It’s building and building. And the Ayahuasca tourism in South America is gigantic now.

Graham Hancock:
It’s gigantic.

______________

Reality check reminder from Michael Hoffman:

The warmongering “Eternal peace through eternal war” Roman Empire was thoroughly saturated in mushroom wine sacred meals initiation cults, including the Ruler Cult brand of mushroom wine sacred meals and religious banqueting parties.

Psychedelics as a panacea to stop warmongering is historically-uninformed wishful thinking, relying on psychedelics to magically do for us what psychedelics cannot and will not accomplish.

The extreme over-marketing of enlightenment.

The extreme over-marketing of psychedelics.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8142 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Leary: The Seven Tongues of God
The Seven Tongues of God
Timothy Leary
The Psychedelic Review, Number 3, 1964
http://www.luminist.org/archives/7tongues.htm

This piece by Leary was mentioned in Transcendent Knowledge podcast episode 1 or 2.


Leary heavily uses ‘energy’, like Martin Ball.

New Age overreliance on ‘energy’ as an explanatory theory-construct is a form of scientism.

I deleted these passages where Leary equates ‘energy’ in Science with tripping.


My friend died at 16 years old, which is why I emphasize the natural drive for entheogenic initiation at adolescence.

In that case, “Wait until you are 21” means *never*.

Adult Prohibitionists strive to stop children from doing what they are constituted to do: seek psychedelic ego death at adolescence.

Delaying initiation til age 21 is a PRETEXT for prohibiting altogether.

Prohibition = *pretext* for suppression and oppression of others. Even alcohol Prohibition, was a pretext to oppress minorities: European undesirables.

In the war between adults and children (youths), I side with the innate drive.

Adults = obstructors of enlightenment.
Children (youths) = seekers of enlightenment.


I condemn and curse *pretext*, phoniness, dissembling, misleading other people to take advantage of them.

(Alcohol) Prohibition did *not* really end, but when halted was immediate converted into drug Prohibition.

I am so sick of phoniness, pretexts, people claiming that they are doing A because of B, but they are really doing it because of C. I hate lying liars’ lies, and Prohibition is the largest heap of lies ever.

Stop lying; stop the reliance on pretexts. Tell the truth about your motivations. The purpose and goal of Prohibition was never harm reduction; it was always oppression of others. Prohibition is a tremendous success at accomplishing its real, covert goals: suppression of minorities and of anti-war people.

“I want to oppress others, I don’t want to admit that, so I have the *pretext* that I am motivated by harm-reduction, rather than by oppressing others.”


Leary writes “The psychedelic experience, far from being new, is man’s oldest and most classic adventure into meaning. Every religion in world history was founded on the basis of some flipped-out visionary trip.”

But he is self-contradictory and inconsistent on this.

Writers in the 60s were self-defeating: they disastrously failed to leverage the strategy, of recognizing that our own religion, Christianity, was always entheogen-based.

1960s psychedelicists supported the assumption-set (a false narrative) that our religion, Christianity, lacks entheogens.


Excerpts from Leary:

I ate seven of the so-called sacred mushrooms which had been given to me by a scientist from the University of Mexico. During the next five hours, I was whirled through an experience which could be described in many extravagant metaphors but which was, above all and without question, the deepest religious experience of my life.

There are many predisposing factors — intellectual, emotional, spiritual, social — which cause one person to be ready for a dramatic mind-opening experience and which lead another to shrink back from new levels of awareness. The discovery that the human brain possesses an infinity of potentialities and can operate at unexpected space-time dimensions left me feeling exhilarated, awed, and quite convinced that I had awakened from a long ontological sleep.

A profound transcendent experience should leave in its wake a changed man and a changed life. Since my illumination of August 1960, I have devoted most of my energies to trying to understand the revelatory potentialities of the human nervous system and to making these insights available to others.

I have repeated this biochemical and (to me) sacramental ritual several hundred times, and almost every time I have been awed by religious revelations as shattering as the first experience. During this period I have been lucky enough to collaborate in this work with several hundred scientists and scholars who joined our various research projects. In our centers at Harvard, in Mexico, and at Millbrook we have arranged transcendent experiences for several thousand persons from all walks of life, including more than 200 full-time religious professionals, about half of whom profess the Christian or Jewish faiths and about half of whom belong to Eastern religions.

Included in this roster are several divinity college deans, divinity college presidents, university chaplains, executives of religious foundations, prominent religious editors, and several distinguished religious philosophers. In our research files and in certain denominational offices there is building up a large and quite remarkable collection of reports which will be published when the political atmosphere becomes more tolerant. At this point it is conservative to state that over 75% of these subjects report intense mystico-religious responses, and considerably more than 50% claim that they have had the deepest spiritual experience of their life.

The interest generated by the research at Harvard led to the formation in 1962 of an informal group of ministers, theologians and religious psychologists who met once a month. In addition to arranging for spiritually oriented psychedelic sessions and discussing prepared papers, this group provided the guides for the dramatic “Good Friday” study and was the original planning nucleus of the organizations which assumed sponsorship of our research in consciousness expansion: IFIF (the International Federation for Internal Freedom), 1963, the Castalia Foundation, 1963-66, and the League for Spiritual Discovery, 1966. The generating impulse and the original leadership of our work and play came from a seminar in religious experience, and this fact may be related to the alarm which we have aroused in some secular and psychiatric circles.

… whether the transcendent experience reported during psychedelic sessions was similar to the mystical experience reported by saints and famous religious mystics.

… To each group were assigned two guides with considerable psychedelic experience. The ten guides were professors and advanced graduate students from Boston-area colleges.

… The dean of the chapel, Howard Thurman, who was to conduct a three-hour devotional service upstairs in the main hall of the church, visited the subjects a few minutes before the start of the service at noon and gave a brief inspirational talk.

Two of the subjects in each group and one of the two guides were given a moderately stiff dosage (i.e., 30 mg.) of psilocybin, the chemical synthesis of the active ingredient in the “sacred mushroom” of Mexico.

… the results clearly support the hypothesis that, with adequate preparation and in an environment which is supportive and religiously meaningful, subjects who have taken the psychedelic drug report mystical experiences significantly more than placebo controls.

Our studies, naturalistic and experimental, thus demonstrate that if the expectation, preparation, and setting are spiritual, an intense mystical or revelatory experience can be expected in from 40 to 90 percent of subjects ingesting psychedelic drugs. These results may be attributed to the bias of our research group, which has taken the “far out” and rather dangerous position that there are experiential-spiritual as well as secular-behavioral potentialities of the nervous system. While we share and follow the epistemology of scientific psychology (objective records), our basic ontological assumptions are closer to Jung than to Freud, closer to the mystics than to the theologians, closer to Einstein and Bohr than to Newton.

In order to check on this bias, let us cast a comparative glance at the work of other research groups in this field who begin from more conventional ontological bases.


LSD Can Produce a Religious High

Here, then, we have five scientific studies by qualified investigators — the four naturalistic studies by Leary et al., Savage et al., Ditman et al. and Janiger-McGlothlin, and the triple-blind study in the Harvard dissertation mentioned earlier — yielding data which indicate that (1) if the setting is supportive but not spiritual, between 40 to 75 percent of psychedelic subjects will report intense and life-changing religious experiences and that (2) if the set and setting are supportive and spiritual, then from 40 to 90 percent of the experiences will be revelatory and mystico-religious.

It is hard to see how these results can be disregarded by those who are concerned with spiritual growth and religious development. These data are even more interesting because the experiments took place at a time (1962) when mysticism, individual religious ecstasy (as opposed to religious behavior), was highly suspect and when the classic, direct, nonverbal means of revelation and consciousness expansion such as meditation, yoga, fasting, monastic withdrawal and sacramental foods and drugs were surrounded by an aura of fear, clandestine secrecy, active social sanction, and even imprisonment. The two hundred professional workers in religious vocations who partook of psychedelic substances (noted earlier) were responsible, respected, thoughtful, and moral individuals who were grimly aware of the controversial nature of the procedure and aware that their reputations and their jobs might be undermined (and, as a matter of fact, have been and are today [1964] being threatened for some of them). Still the results read: 75 percent spiritual revelation.

Liturgical practices, rituals, dogmas, theological speculations, can be and too often are secular, i.e., completely divorced from the spiritual experience.

… both science and religion are too often diverted toward secular-game goals. Various pressures demand that laboratory and church forget these basic questions and instead provide distractions, illusory protection, narcotic comfort. Most of us dread confrontation with the answers to these basic questions, whether the answers come from objective science or religion. But if “pure” science and religion address themselves to the same basic questions, what is the distinction between the two disciplines?

Science is the systematic attempt to record and measure the energy process and the sequence of energy transformations we call life. The goal is to answer the basic questions in terms of objective, observed, public data.

Religion is the systematic attempt to provide answers to the same questions subjectively, in terms of direct, incontrovertible, personal experience.

Science is a social system which evolves roles, rules, rituals, values, language, space-time locations to further the quest for these goals, to answer these questions objectively, externally.

Religion is a social system which has evolved its roles, rules, rituals, values, language, space-time locations to further the pursuit of the same goals, to answer these questions subjectively through the revelatory experience.

A science which fails to address itself to these spiritual goals, which accepts other purposes (however popular), becomes secular, political, and tends to oppose new data. A religion which fails to provide direct experiential answers to these spiritual questions (which fails to produce the ecstatic high) becomes secular, political, and tends to oppose the individual revelatory confrontation.

R. C. Zaehner … remarked that experience, when divorced from dogma, often leads to absurd and wholly irrational excesses.

… dogma, when divorced from experience, often leads to absurd and wholly rational excesses.

Those of us who have been devoting our lives to the study of consciousness have been able to collect considerable sociological data about the tendency of the rational mind to spin out its own interpretations. But I shall have more to say about the political situation in later chapters.

Religion and Science Provide Similar Answers to the Same Basic Questions

… those aspects of the psychedelic experience which subjects report to be ineffable and ecstatically religious involve a direct awareness of the energy processes which physicists and biochemists and physiologists and neurologists and psychologists and psychiatrists measure.

We are treading here on very tricky ground. When we read the reports of LSD subjects, we are doubly limited. First, they can only speak in the vocabulary they know, and for the most part they do not possess the lexicon and training of energy scientists. Second, we researchers find only what we are prepared to look for, and too often we think in crude psychological-jargon concepts: moods, emotions, value judgments, diagnostic categories, social pejoratives, religious clichés. Since 1962 I have talked to thousands of LSD trippers, mystics, saddhus, occultists, saints, inquiring if their hallucinations, visions, revelations, ecstasies, orgasms, hits, flashes, space-outs and freak-outs can be translated into the language not just of religion, psychiatry and psychology but also of the and biological sciences.

1. The Ultimate-Power Question

A. The scientific answers to this question change constantly — Newtonian laws, quantum indeterminacy, atomic structure, nuclear structure.

… the flimsy inadequacy of these words. We just don’t have a better experiential vocabulary.

… The psychedelic experience is the Hindu-Buddha reincarnation theory experimentally confirmed in your own nervous system.

… Your body is the universe. The ancient wisdom of Gnostics, hermetics, Sufis, Tantric gurus, yogis, occult healers. What is without is within. Your body is the mirror of the macrocosm. The kingdom of heaven is within you.

… The impact of LSD is exactly this brutal answer to the question, who is ego? The LSD revelation is the clear perspective. The LSD panic is the terror that the ego is lost forever. The LSD ecstasy is the joyful discovery that ego, with its painful shams and strivings, is only a fraction of my identity.

Oriental philosophy points out that every form is an illusion. Maya. Everything at every level of energy is a shuttling series of vibrations as apparently solid as the whirring metal disk made by rotating fan blades. Ego resists this notion and touches the immediate solidity of phenomena. We dislike slowing the motion picture down because the film flickers. Annoying reminder that we view not unbroken continuity but an off-on ribbon of still pictures.


Drugs Are the Religion of the People — The Only Hope is Dope

Metapsychology is the study of conditioning by the nervous system that has been conditioned. Your ego unravels its own genesis.

From the theological standpoint, everyone must discover the seven faces of God within his own body.

This task, which at first glance may seem fantastically utopian, is actually very easy to initiate because there now [since the archaic era -mh] exist instruments which can move consciousness to any desired level. The laboratory equipment for experimental theology, for internal science, is of course made of the stuff of consciousness itself, made of the same material as the data to be studied. The instruments of systematic religion are chemicals. Drugs. Dope.

If you are serious about your religion, if you really wish to commit yourself to the spiritual quest, you must learn how to use psychochemicals. Drugs are the religion of the twenty-first century [and Antiquity -mh]. Pursuing the religious life today without using psychedelic drugs is like studying astronomy with the naked eye because that’s how they did it in the first century A.D. [when culture was saturated in mushroom wine -mh], and besides, telescopes are unnatural.

There Are Specific Drugs to Turn On Each Level of Consciousness

Modern psychopharmacology is written and practiced by scientists who do not take drugs (and who therefore write textbooks about events they have never experienced). Current psychopharmacology is a superstitious form of black magic sponsored and supported by the federal Food and Drug Administration, a government agency about as enlightened as the Spanish Inquisition. Note that the rapidly growing enforcement branch of the FDA uses instruments unknown to Torquemeda — guns, wiretaps — in addition to the classic methods of informers and provocateurs. There is thus enormous ignorance about the science of consciousness alteration and a vigorous punitive campaign to prevent its application.

The decision as to which drugs turn on which levels of consciousness is empirical, based on thousands of psychedelic experiences. I have personally taken drugs which trigger off each level of consciousness hundreds of times.

But my findings can be easily checked out. Any reader can initiate experiments of his own with readily available chemicals.

If you are a diligent experimental theologian, you may wish to see if you can take the fantastic voyage down your body or down into time, using the appropriate chemical instruments. Psychedelic yoga is not a mysterious, arcane specialty reserved for Ph.D.’s and a scientific elite. Anyone who is curious about the nature of God and reality can perform the experiments. Indeed, millions of Americans have done just this in the last few years.

The Seven Religious Yogas

The psychedelic experience, far from being new, is man’s oldest and most classic adventure into meaning. Every religion in world history was founded on the basis of some flipped-out visionary trip.

Religion is the systematic attempt at focusing man’s consciousness. Comparative religion should concern itself less with the exoteric and academic differences and more with studying the different levels of consciousness turned on by each religion. [This section is poor and self-contradictory. Every religion is based on entheogens, and is equivalent. -mh]

The disciplines of neurology, psychology and psychiatry, however, have not yet reached a scientific state. No satisfactory language system exists in their fields. … Enormous priesthoods have developed in these three fields which jockey for power, funds, prestige but which fail to provide answers or even to define problems.

The entire study of consciousness, the religious experience itself, remains in a state of medieval ignorance and superstition. There is no language for describing states of awareness.

The humanistic sciences — neurology, psychology, psychiatry, psychopharmacology and the study of consciousness (which I call religion) — require a systematic language which will allow men to distinguish which levels of energy and consciousness they deal with.

… Western man developed a language of physics and chemistry and a highly efficient engineering based on physical-chemical experimentation long before he developed understanding and control of his own sense organs and neurological conditioning. Thus we now have a situation where blind, irrational, technical robots (who understand neither their makeup nor the purpose of life) are in control of powerful and dangerous energies.

… The religions of the future must be based on these seven scientific questions. A science of consciousness must be based on those different levels which center on the body and the biochemicals (i.e. drugs) which alter consciousness.

Dramatic changes in our child-rearing and educational practices, politics, communications will occur as man grasps this notion of the levels of consciousness and their alteration.

… the findings of the pure sciences do not produce the religious reaction we should expect. We are satiated with secular statistics, dazed into robot dullness by the enormity of facts which we are not educated to comprehend. … The message is dimly grasped hypothetically, rationally, but never experienced, felt, known.

… To experience (it’s always for a moment) the answers to the seven basic spiritual questions is to me the peak of the religious-scientific quest.

But how can our ill-prepared nervous systems grasp the message? Certainly the average man cannot master the conceptual, mathematical bead game of the physics graduate student. Must his experiential contact with the divine process come in watered-down symbols, sermons, hymns, robot rituals, religious calendar art, moral-behavior sanctions eventually secular in their aim? Fortunately the great plan has produced a happy answer and has endowed every human being with the equipment to comprehend, to know, to experience directly, incontrovertibly.

… If you can, for the moment, throw off the grip of your learned mind, your conditioning, and experience the message contained in the ten-billion-tube computer which you carry behind your forehead, you would know the awe-ful truth.

… the brakes can be released. … psychedelic foods and drugs, ingested by prepared subjects in a serious, sacred, supportive atmosphere, can put the subject into perpetual touch with other levels …


The Language of Ecstasy

But to what do these LSD subjects refer when they report spiritual reactions? Do they obtain specific illuminations into the seven basic questions, or are their responses simply awe and wonder at the experienced novelty? Even if the latter were the case, could it not support the religious application of the psychedelic substances and simply underline the need for more sophisticated religious language coordinated with the scientific data?

… the neurological and pharmacological explanations of an LSD vision are still far from being understood. We know almost nothing about the physiology of consciousness and the body-cortex interaction. … should caution us against labeling experiences outside of our current tribal clichés as “psychotic” or abnormal. For 3,000 years our greatest prophets and philosophers have been telling us to look within, and today our scientific data are supporting that advice with a humiliating finality. The limits of introspective awareness may well be submicroscopic, cellular, molecular and even nuclear. We only see, after all, what we are trained and predisposed to see.

… LSD subjects do claim to experience revelations into the basic questions and do attribute life change to their visions.

We are, of course, at the very beginning of our research into these implications. A new experiential language and perhaps even new metaphors for the great plan will develop. We have been working on this project for the past six years, writing manuals which train subjects to recognize energy processes, teaching subjects to communicate via a machine we call the experiential typewriter and with movies of microbiological processes. And we have continued to pose the questions to religious and philosophic groups: What do you think? Are these biochemical visions religious?

Before you answer, remember that God (however you define the higher power) produced that wonderful molecule, that extraordinarily powerful organic substance we call LSD, just as surely as He created the rose, or the sun, or the complex cluster of molecules you insist on calling your “self.”

Professional Priests and Theologians Avoid the Religious Experience

Among the many harassing complications of our research into religious experience has been the fact that few people, even some theological professionals, have much conception of what a religious experience really is. If asked, they tend to become embarrassed, intellectual, evasive. The adored cartoonists of the Renaissance portray the ultimate power as a dove, or a flaming bush, or as a man — venerable, with a white beard, or on a cross, or as a baby, or a sage seated in full lotus position. Are these not limiting incarnations, temporary housings, of the great energy process?

… After the session, the minister complained that the experience, although shattering and revelatory, was disappointing because it was “content-free” — so physical, so unfamiliar, so scientific, like being beamed through microscopic panoramas, like being oscillated through cellular functions at radar acceleration. Well, what do you expect? If God were to take you on a visit through His “workshop,” do you think you’d walk or go by bus? … the divine process operates in time dimensions which are far beyond our routine, secular, space-time limits. … Our science describes this logically. Our brains may be capable of dealing with these processes experientially.

The great process has placed in our hands a key to this direct visionary world. Is it hard for us to accept that the key might be an organic molecule and not a new myth [a new, restored comprehension of myth -mh] or a new word?

The Politics of Revelation

And where do we go? There are in the United States today several million persons who have experienced what I have attempted to describe — a psychedelic, religious revelation. There are, I would estimate, several million equally thoughtful people who have heard the joyous tidings and who are waiting patiently but determinedly for the prohibition to end.

There is, of course, the expected opposition. The classic conflict of the religious drama — always changing, always the same. The doctrine (which was originally someone’s experience) now threatened by the *new* [sic!] experience. This time the administrators have assigned the inquisitorial role to psychiatrists, whose proprietary claims to a revealed understanding of the mind and whose antagonism to consciousness expansion are well known to you.

The clamor over psychedelic drugs is now reaching full crescendo. You have heard rumors and you have read the press assaults and the slick-magazine attacks-by-innuendo. As sophisticated adults, you have perhaps begun to wonder: where is the evidence? As educated men with an eye for history, you are, I trust, beginning to suspect that we’ve been through this many times before.

In the current hassle over psychedelic plants and drugs, you are witnessing a good, old-fashioned, traditional religious controversy. On one side the psychedelic visionaries, somewhat uncertain about the validity of their revelations, embarrassedly speaking in new tongues (there never is, you know, the satisfaction of a sound, right academic language for the new vision of the divine), harassed by the knowledge of their own human frailty, surrounded by the inevitable legion of eccentric would-be followers looking for a new panacea, always in grave doubt about their own motivation — hero? martyr? crank? crackpot? — always on the verge of losing their material achievements — job, reputation, long-suffering wife, conventional friends, parental approval — always under the fire of the power holders. And on the other side the establishment (the administrators, the police, the fund-granting foundations, the job givers) pronouncing their familiar lines in the drama: “Danger! Madness! Unsound! Intellectual corruption of youth! Irreparable damage! Cultism!” The issue of chemical expansion of consciousness is hard upon us. During the last few years, every avenue of propaganda has barraged you with the arguments. You can hardly escape it. You are going to be pressed for a position. Internal freedom is becoming a major religious and civil rights controversy.

How can you decide? How can you judge? Well, it’s really quite simple. Whenever you hear anyone sounding off on internal freedom and consciousness-expanding foods and drugs — whether pro or con — check out these questions:

1. Is your expert talking from direct experience, or simply repeating clichés? Theologians and intellectuals often deprecate “experience” in favor of fact and concept. This classic debate is falsely labeled. Most often it becomes a case of “experience” versus “inexperience.”

2. Do his words spring from a spiritual or from a mundane point of view? Is he motivated by a dedicated quest for answers to basic questions, or is he protecting his own social-psychological position, his own game investment? Is he struggling toward sainthood, or is he maintaining his status as a hard-boiled scientist or hard-boiled cop?

3. How would his argument sound if it were heard in a different culture (for example, in an African jungle hut, a ghat on the Ganges, or on another planet inhabited by a form of life superior to ours) or in a different time (for example, in Periclean Athens, or in a Tibetan monastery, or in a bull session led by any one of the great religious leaders — founders — messiahs)? Or how would it sound to other species of life on our planet today — to dolphins, to the consciousness of a redwood tree? In other words, try to break out of your usual tribal game set and listen with the ears of another one of God’s creatures.

4. How would the debate sound to you if you were fatally diseased with a week to live, and thus less committed to mundane issues? Our research group receives many requests a week for consciousness-expanding experiences, and some of these come from terminal patients. 

5. Is the point of view one which opens up or closes down? Are you being urged to explore, experience, gamble out of spiritual faith, join someone who shares your cosmic ignorance on a collaborative voyage of discovery? Or are you being pressured to close off, protect your gains, play it safe, accept the authoritative voice of someone who knows best?

6. When we speak, we say little about the subject matter and disclose mainly the state of our own mind. Does your psychedelic expert use terms which are positive, pro-life, spiritual, inspiring, opening, based on faith in the future, faith in your potential, or does he betray a mind obsessed by danger, material concern, by imaginary terrors, administrative caution or essential distrust in your potential? …

7. If he is against what he calls “artificial methods of illumination,” ask him what constitutes the natural. Words? Rituals? Tribal customs? Alkaloids? Psychedelic vegetables?

8. If he is against biochemical assistance, where does he draw the line? Does he use nicotine? alcohol? penicillin? vitamins? conventional [sic; exoteric, substitute, counterfeit -mh] sacramental substances?

If your advisor is against LSD, what is he for? If he forbids you the psychedelic key to revelation, what does he offer you instead?

/excerpts from Leary, by Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8143 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Critique of popsike conferences
Psychedelics Conferences

Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelics Research
ICPR
http://www.icpr2016.nl/schedule/

Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelics Research 2016 is the third international scientific conference on research into psychedelics organised by the OPEN Foundation.

During this three-day event, international researchers from a wide range of academic disciplines will present their latest results and advances in scientific research on psychedelics. ICPR is a multidisciplinary, strictly scientific conference featuring the most current research on psychedelic substances.

Building on the success of previous editions, this interdisciplinary conference will gather and connect experts from various academic fields covering neurosciences, psychopharmacology, psychiatry, social sciences, anthropology, philosophy and many more. This event is of interest to scientists, scholars, psychologists, psychiatrists, students, and those with a general interest in psychedelic research.
Group: egodeath Message: 8144 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Critique of popsike conferences
Group: egodeath Message: 8149 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: In praise and honor of Ayahuasca leaders
In praise and honor of Ayahuasca leaders

I honor, venerate, and respect Ayahuasca leaders (Ayahuasceros or Ayahuasca curanderos), with special recognition of the authenticity of white men who are Ayahuasca group leaders. I especially approve of people who know the Egodeath theory leading Ayahuasca groups.

Ayahuasca and house-church leaders should know and use:
o Eternalism Cybernetics
o The Egodeath theory
o The Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence
o The Maximal Entheogen Theory of Religion and Culture

The people who are the most subject to the critique of inauthenticity are white, American men.

To rebut this critique that is most easily leveled against this group, it is especially important that white, American men bring authentic, esoteric, psychedelic, actually transformative religion.

Psychedelic religion is the only effective way of transformation of the mental worldmodel from Possibilism to Eternalism, from Literalist Ordinary-state Possibilism to Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism.

Here is how white American men who are Ayahuasca leaders can be definitive of authentic religion, including authentic traditional esoteric Christian house-church leaders. Women and non-American non-whites should do the same.

I am particularly focused on the specific scenario of white American men as authentic Ayahuasca leaders, authentic Christian leaders, authentic religion leaders (effective initiators and effective sacrificers).

Ayahuasca leaders need helpful critique and recommendations, not destructive critique.

It is fair to make fun of esotericism, in a way that educates and enlightens.

Help, not hinder:

o Esoteric Christianity agape-meal participants and leaders.
o Ayahuasca participants and leaders.
o Ayahuasca Catholic agape-meal participants and leaders.

Ayahuasca churches are esoteric Christianity, esoteric religion, authentic religion (though currently *undeveloped* authentic religion).

This is a constructive critique of current Ayahuasca practice and interpretation, which needs some correction, to lead through the gate to the heavenly banquet party and the sacred marriage.

Benny Shanon has set up Ayahuasca within reach of the Eternalism revelation, like my November 23, 2011 breakthrough set up for my November 29, 2013 super-breakthrough.

A helpful critique of psychedelic shamanism is needed. I support Christianity overall, in order to favor specifically esoteric Christianity. I support entheogenic (that is, authentic) shamanism and Ayahuasca leaders.

There is a tension between moving things forward, and critique. Advocates of psychedelic therapy need support and critique, supportive critique.

An Ayahuasca leader should read Benny Shanon’s Antipodes of the Mind, and should read my main article at Egodeath.com, and some of my posts about {tree vs. snake = Possibilism vs. Eternalism}.

The title is _Antipodes of the *Mind*_, not _Antipodes of the Neuro-*Brain* with Lots-of-Orange Color Blobs_.

Esoteric, Metaphorical Entheogenic Eternalism users and leaders of religious, sacrificing, psychedelic parties, are the favored people who I deliver the Egodeath theory to.

I provide the Egodeath theory for the use of people who use loosecog for religious revelation and mental worldmodel transformation.

Supporting esoteric Christianity is supporting Ayahuasceros or Ayahuasca curanderos.


https://ayahuascalife.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/ayahuascero-vs-currandero-a-western-misunderstanding-of-shamanism/

“A curandero, as the name implies, cures people. A curandero has a large toolbox to draw from as the training for a currandero is much more extensive and varied.

… Those plants become allies, and the plants teach the curandero how to work with them during ceremony and in healing. A curandero can call on one of his plant/tree allies to protect the guest, to bring in the medicine, and help cure a guest.

A curandero has learned to work with energies/spirits that may be in the guest. If the spirit or energy is not useful or harmful, the curandero helps the patient learn to control that energy/spirit so that it does not cause further negative manifestations in ceremony nor in life. … This skill of managing energies/spirits is particularly important in an ayahuasca ceremony as a person’s energies open up significantly in this space.”


Ayahuasca and authentic psychedelic (such as traditional, psilocybin) house-church leaders, you should use knowledge of Eternalism Cybernetics; use the Egodeath theory, including the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence, and the Maximal Entheogen Theory of Religion and Culture.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8150 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: In praise and honor of Ayahuasca leaders
When you exorcise the demon from a youth, you assist the collapse of egoic thinking that is caused by the Possibilism mode of consciousness giving way to the Eternalism mode of consciousness.

This collapse is not a destruction of egoic mental constructs, but a revision that preserves these mental constructs as a recognized useful initial innate convention of mental structuring, while giving rise to the later innate convention of mental structuring.

Possibilism is the initial innate {mode of cognition, and mental worldmodel}.
Eternalism is the subsequent innate {mode of cognition, and mental worldmodel}.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8151 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
In the University of Transcendent Knowledge,

Cybermonk brings the STEM department perspective.

Max Freakout brings the Philosophy department perspective.

Psyber Disciple brings the Classics department perspective.
Group: egodeath Message: 8152 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
We are the true, higher University; we exemplify what the university is supposed to be and authentically must be.
Group: egodeath Message: 8153 From: egodeath Date: 09/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
Group: egodeath Message: 8154 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Re: Transcendent Knowledge podcast commentary
College students know that the Egodeath theory is the proper center of higher education.

By proxy, when I support Max Freakout in the Philosophy department, and Psyber Disciple in the Classics department, I am supporting:
Michael Rinella
Ken Tupper
Thomas Roberts
DCA Hillman
Students who know the Egodeath theory and want to correct their institution of purportedly “higher” education

“Ken Tupper” psychedelic
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Ken+Tupper%22+psychedelic

tupper psychedelics cognitive tools
https://www.google.com/search?q=tupper+psychedelics+cognitive+tools
Group: egodeath Message: 8155 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Two modes of analysis: Possibilism and Eternalism
Two modes of analysis: Possibilism and Eternalism

Critique any item from the point of view of a good solid Possibilism-slanted point of view, and also from a good solid Eternalism-slanted point of view.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8156 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Re: Two modes of analysis: Possibilism and Eternalism
On a Possibilism argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.
On an Eternalism argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.

On a Harm Reduction argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.
On a Benefit Maximization argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.

On a Civil Liberties argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.
On a Freedom of Religion argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.

On a Biblical and Christian *Tradition* argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.
On a Western Culture, Greco-Roman Tradition argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.

On a Truth and Honesty (vs. pretext) argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.
On an anti-Racism argument basis, the Egodeath theory wins.

On an Efficacy of Mental Transformation argumentation basis, the Egodeath theory wins.
On a “Protect children from premature sacrifice of free will” argumentation basis, the Egodeath theory wins.

On an “America is #1” argumentation basis, the Egodeath theory wins. The Egodeath theory is a product of American education and cultural upbringing, of late 1970s liberal freedom of thought. The Egodeath theory is can-do, manly, vigorous, and freedom-defending, a showcase of what STEM thinking and General Education at university can accomplish.

On every type of legitimate argumentation basis, the Egodeath theory wins.

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 8157 From: egodeath Date: 10/07/2016
Subject: Repeal Prohibition for the Environment
Repeal Prohibition for the Environment

Spread the word!

Drug policy reformers, or drug Prohibition repealers, are *failing* to leverage this powerful argument as a talking point at every possible chance.

We’ve got shaky fMRI psychedelic science and dubiously scientific “therapy” mentioned three times whenever possible, but meanwhile, hardly a mention of how Prohibition is greatly harming the environment.

On a Save the Environment argument basis, full repeal of Prohibition wins, and the Egodeath theory wins.

Save the Rainforest: repeal Coca Prohibition.

Hemp and mushrooms will save the world.

*Prohibition of* Coca is the cause of deforestation:

rainforest coca prohibition
http://google.com/search?q=rainforest+coca+prohibition

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/02/110218-cocaine-coca-farming-colombia-rainforests-environment-science/

hemp save world
http://google.com/search?q=hemp+save+world

mushroom save planet
http://google.com/search?q=mushroom+save+planet

— Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com

Commentary on “Transcendent Knowledge Podcast” Episode 24 (2020-04-21) Prohibition Culture part 2

Site Map

Contents:

  • Outline
  • tbd

Outline

Episode 24, April 21, 2020 – Prohibition culture pt. 2

Max Freakout and Cyberdisciple continue talking about prohibition culture.

  • Prohibition as ego-preserving strategy
  • Prohibition-compliant attitude of pop-psychedelia
  • Lack of radical thinking in pop-psychedelia
  • Psychedelic drug use by artists and musicians
  • Alan Moore’s writings about eternalism and psychedelics
  • Pressure to self-censor
  • Prohibition repeal vs drug policy reform
  • Imagining post-prohibition society
  • Understanding religion in post-prohibition society
  • Psychedelia and the communism/capitalism dialectic
  • Psychedelic collectivism
  • Utopian pipe dreams
  • Hiding initiation from the youth, delaying maturation
  • Metaphorical nature of psychedelic experiencing
  • Exoteric and esoteric conception of eating and drinking
  • The future relevance of exoteric religion, post-prohibition
  • Primitive culture’s relation to psychedelics

My Commentary on Transcendent Knowledge Podcast, Episode 24

1:08:00

My more recent test/question is:

Can a trip guide be effective if the trip guide has not themselves gone through first-hand experience of experiential mental model transformation from Possibilism to Eternalism, including conscious dependence and putting trust in the uncontrollable higher controller or pre-creator of all of one’s control-thoughts in the near future?

Is book knowledge of the Egodeath theory sufficient qualification to be a hierophant, or must an authorized hierophant have personally undergone the battle with the worldline dragon in the rock block universe?

~10 00 Cyberdisciple said Moore wrote “Einstein”, why not Minkowski?

after this ep, election nov 3 2020 109, 110,… passed. 9 out of 9 passed. discuss

Commentary on “Transcendent Knowledge Podcast” Episode 25 (2020-07-05) Strange Loop

Site Map

Contents:

Episode 25, July 5, 2020 – Guest: Troy (Strange Loop)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCqCGpOwDYA

Strange Loop and Max Freakout discuss the Egodeath theory.

Site Map: Podcast section
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/nav/#Podcast

Transcendent Knowledge Podcast episodes
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/11/07/transcendent-knowledge-podcast-episodes/

Episode Outline

  • Troy’s history with the ego death theory
  • The difficulty of explaining the theory to other people
  • Common mischaracterisations of the theory
  • Ideas for packaging the theory to promote easier understanding
  • Summarising the ego theory
  • Using optimal vocabulary to express the theory
  • Jimmy’s misunderstanding of the theory
  • Interpreting Jesus as a mushroom
  • Looking for mushrooms in Christian art
  • The relevance of transhumanism and technological singularity
  • Douglas Hofstadter’s writing on self-reference and logical incompleteness
  • The importance of focus and relevance

Start of Podcast

0:00

Was the main article published when the guest found the Egodeath theory website?

Did he read the ED Yahoo group? No.

5:00 Psychonaut.com Thread “what’s happened to Michael Hoffman from egodeath?”

Psychonaut.com (now Psychonaut.fr) thread
“what’s happened to Michael Hoffman from egodeath?”
https://www.psychonaut.fr/Thread-what-s-happened-to-Michael-Hoffman-from-egodeath

12:00 Formatting printed Egodeath.com

  • Egodeath.com (2007)
    • Including the Egodeath Yahoo Group postings June 10, 2001 – February 14, 2004.
    • Main emphasis: the Cybernetic theory;
      the Phase 1 Core theory.
  • EgodeathTheory WordPress site (2020)
    • Including sampling of the Egodeath Yahoo Group postings 2004-2019
    • Main emphasis: the Mytheme theory;
      the Phase 2 periphery/history/myth/analogy theory.

18:00 Egodeath.com Printouts

18:00 “Technique of Ego Death” article at website

This is an excellent pick, and shows Strange Loop’s good judgment.

The egodeath.com page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCqCGpOwDYA&t=1080s
page title:
Technique of Ego Death
subsection title:
How to safely demonstrate puppethood?
http://www.egodeath.com/TechniqueofEgoDeath.htm#_Toc64387451

19:49 The “Right” Kind of “Suicide”

Proof that the Canterbury Psalter’s Leg-Hanging Mushroom Tree Is Psilocybe
Subsection: Cybercide
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/proof-canterbury-psalters-mushroom-trees-are-psilocybe/#Cybercide

24:00 Ahistoricity of Jesus

27:00 Simplified Explanation of the Egodeath theory

See the Egodeath Yahoo Group Digest 183 I added 2019 simple summary statements posts.

Egodeath Yahoo Group – Digest 183: 2019-05-20
Thread: Summary statements of Egodeath theory
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/13/egodeath-yahoo-group-digest-183/#Summary-statements-of-Egodeath-theory

28:10 woman Rowan – thread like “Freewill, Ego death, and psychedelic drugs”

rowan = i am your idea
iamyouridea

Max’s first effort to communicate

not found yet
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Free%20will%20Ego%20death%20psychedelic%20%22max%20freakout%22

format test:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=mushroom+%22christian+art%22

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mushroom+%22christian+art%22 – happens to give one pic need to check out:

https://www.imb.org/image/ancient-frescoes-7/
https://www.imb.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2008136mnj0814-2200×1467.jpg

32:21 Question which Strange Loop asked people

Are you familiar with the Egodeath website, Michael Hoffman’s Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence?

41:00 Egodeath Yahoo Group Digests

Max copied the database of Egodeath Yahoo Group posts. Formats he presently has:
o Hundreds of PDF files, hard to search within.
o Single long plaintext file, hard to read.

42:10 the the Egodeath Yahoo Group Digests are not very searchable. I am able to search (including quotes) within the HTML digest files locally.

48:00 Theory Presentation Spoon-Feed

Theory presentation spoonfeed

A certain magazine lately has more pictures, less technical jargon, 123 basics, shallower than that magazine was in the 1970s.

Reading level reduced from 12th to 8th grade.Need diagrams.

Needs an intro welcoming page such as the main article that is at the website since 2006.

Need cartoon Christian figures, need that these days to engage anybody.

[My idea of packaging as pamphlet tract handout for festivals.]

“The Bible Project”
Website is a wall of text.

Need pictures, such as the main article that is at the website since 2006.

48:00 The Bible Project, Accessible Format

The Bible Project as an example of making info accessible.

“BibleProject” YouTube channel,

BibleProject website https://bibleproject.com – short-form animated videos & other free resources to help people everywhere experience the unified story of the Bible.

49:00 From Wall of Text, to Accessible Summary Presentation

Delete All Content from Egodeath.com Except Main Article, to Have Pictures, No Wall of Text?

My main article already accomplished what Guest is asking for.

How does the main article not accomplish already, everything the guest is proposing?

Is the Guest implying I need to delete everything from Egodeath.com except the main article?”

Guest suggests instead of a wall of text, the website should be an accessible summary presentation, such as the main article that is at the website since 2006.

54:30 Summarize the Egodeath Theory in a Sentence

55:00 My review of the main parts of the theory, related to a single-sentence summary

My review of the main parts of the theory, related to a single-sentence summary:

Dividing theory into 3 vs 4 parts after 2013: use condensed statement:

3-Term Summary

As 3 parts: Myth describes psychedelics revealing Eternalism.

Those 3 parts are:

  • mythology
  • psychedelics
  • eternalism

As 4 parts: Myth describes psychedelics revealing timeless noncontrol.

Religious mythology describes psychedelics revealing timeless block-universe noncontrol.

‘Eternalism’ is too esoteric a word, and, it’s two concommitant parts:

o Frozen-time block universe with embedded worldlines

o Cybernetic non-control

Extract list of 4 main topics from the condensed statement:

Myth describes psychedelics revealing timeless noncontrol.

o Religious mythology (& related terms)

o Loose cognitive association binding state (includes meta-perception)

o Block universe frozen time with embedded worldline of personal control

o Self-control cybernetics, experiencing of noncontrol in the loosecog state

The latter two parts are revealed together in the same experiential state, and can be combined into the esoteric unfamiliar opaque term ‘Eternalism’.

/ my review or summary

55:15 Religion is a metaphorical description of discovering Eternalism in the psychedelic state of consciousness.

Religion is a metaphorical description of discovering Eternalism in the psychedelic state of consciousness.

One problem w/ that: no one knows what the tech term ‘eternalism’ means. So the sentence as-is won’t communicate.

Missing:

Self-control cybernetics.  

56:20 eternalism/possibilism – literalist antidrugs possibilism vs. psychedelic metaphorical eternalism

Max: “eternalism seems to point to determinism but doesn’t point to Cybernetics; Does eternalism successfully contain the concept of Cybernetics sufficiently?” Loop: “Only for internal audience.” Max” add “via egodeath control loss.”

eternalism/possibilism – literalist antidrugs possibilism vs. psychedelic metaphorical eternalism

Frozen time block universe with worldlines. 

Can combine those two as Eternalism, which means nothing to anyone and is unhelpful.

58:10 Religion is a metaphorical description of discovering Eternalism in the psychedelic state of consciousness via ego death control-loss.

Religion is a metaphorical description of discovering Eternalism in the psychedelic state of consciousness via ego death control-loss.

58:35 Religion is a metaphorical description of tripping out and discovering Eternalism via the experience of panic-attack control-loss ego death.

Religion is a metaphorical description of tripping out and discovering Eternalism via the experience of panic-attack control-loss ego death.

The Theory is easy to summarize.

The main article’s diagram with 4 quadrants puzzle pieces shows how amazingly summarizable the Egodeath theory is.

1:00:00 Ambiguity of the Word ‘Determinism’

1:00:00 The 3 pillars (guest proposed): Determinism/ Eternalism, Self-Control Cybernetics, Psychedelics

The 3 pillars (guest proposed):

o Determinism/Eternalism

o Self-control cybernetics

o Psychedelics

Is that the most optimal summary?

/ condensed at this scale

The guest’s breakout of 3 pillars omits the theory of interpreting *religious mythology* as analogy/metaphor that describes the altered experiential state.

Guest discusses Ahistoricity in place of that.

1:01:00 Making Good Theory vs. Optimizing Lexicon

Project 1: a theory which explains psych tripping ego death and religion

Project 2: optimizing the lexicon, creating the absolute most efficient short summarizable way of explaining what the theory is.

1:02:00 The Diamond Hammer of Interpretation, the Lightning Path Shortcut to Understanding

The Diamond Hammer of Interpretation – to do: post about that in detail.

the Lightning Path Shortcut to Understanding

  • Literalist anti-drugs Possibilism
  • Metaphorical psychedelic Eternalism

1:03:00 Holistic everything-at-once atemporal acausal determinism

Holistic everything-at-once atemporal acausal determinism.

Not the misleading ego-level version: causal temporal determinism, chain of dominos, falling in sequence over time.

My notes/summary of theory:

Covered in this episode?

  • heimarmane,
  • eternalism,
  • self-control cybernetics,
  • noncontrol,
  • frozen time block universe.

Religious mythology is description by analogy of psychedelics producing an experience of frozen-time noncontrol.

myth is metaphor describing psychedelics producing frozen-time noncontrol

A goal was to get rid of the esoteric term ‘heimarmene’. 140-character or 200-character units (short posts), common words, 8th grade, anyone in chat. See link to summary.

  • cybernetics
  • heimarmene
  • eternalism
  • block universe
  • worldline
  • experiential
  • revising mental model of time and control

/ My notes /summary of theory

1:04:30 Is ‘Determinism’ the Reason for Misunderstanding the Egodeath Theory?

See also my analysis at Idea Development page 9, section:
Identifying the Root Cause of “I couldn’t see it”; if ‘it’ Were Taken as Referring to the Egodeath Theory Asserting “Everything is already there at all times” and Rejecting “Unfolding in time”
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2021/01/07/idea-development-page-9/#root-cause

Is the word ‘Determinism’ the Reason for Misunderstanding the Egodeath Theory? Clarification of the word ‘eternalism’ could break down the walls to understanding. But Strange Loop says that’s not the problem.

Explanation: He’s Alternating Between Good and Bad Methodology (Faulty Premises of High Dose)

I have an alternative explanation:

Kafei is alternating between the good, standard, normal methodology, and his own, home-made, bad, abnormal methodology based around faulty assumptions around his notion of “high dose”.

That’s the source of the strange, noticeable phenomenon of Kafei going around in circles, waffling, being unable to adhere to Max’s discussion-structure based on careful contrast of the two opposed positions, and contradicting himself.

Kafei converses as if he hasn’t read the Egodeath theory. Whatever he was reading, the 20% of the Egodeath site, he was not reading the core concepts of the egodeath theory, as in the main article. He always reaches for quotes of mystics, and rarely connects ideas with the core concepts of the Egodeath theory, regarding timelessness and no-free-will.

Kafei speaks like he’s rebutting Ramesh and Harris‘ possibly half-baked positions, not the Egodeath theory’s position.

The Egodeath theory is not Ramesh. The Egodeath theory is not Sam Harris. Do not conflate any half-baked ideas Ramesh or Harris might have, with the egodeath theory. Read the Egodeath theory; don’t guess what its position is, based on “it’s the same as Ramesh”.

The fact that Kafei (after reading Ramesh) was disrupted by Bizzy Bone’s “rebuttal”, of bobbing his head, demonstrates that neither Bizzy Bone nor Kafei understand what no-free-will asserts.

How could bobbing one’s head possibly rebut the no-free-will position? To think that acting randomly could disprove the no-free-will position, just demonstrates that the person fails to grasp what the no-free-will position asserts.

Kafei is a poor judge of philosophical positions on determinism, given that he’s confused like Bizzy, over what actions could rebut or “threaten” a no-free-will or determinism position.

Episode 25, 1:04:47, Strange Loop surmises that the problem with Kafei’s inconsistent description of block-universe determinism in the Egodeath theory, is not a matter of accurately defining ‘determinism’. I’m starting to agree; my analysis of Kafei’s inconsistency agrees with Strange Loop.

1:03:00 Transcription: “a psychological thing rather than simply choosing the wrong word”

1:03:00 Max: “Acausal determinism.

“The major mistake that Jimmy made in episode 16 was that he was too eager to use the word determinism and then mistake it for the bad, misleading, ego-level version of determinism, which is causal temporal determinism, where it’s like a chain of dominos, where one domino falling, causes the next domino to fall in the line.

“That is emphatically not what MH means when he uses the word ‘determinism’.

“So he [MH] abandoned the word ‘determinism’, because it has that problem built into it.

“And he replaced it with the word ‘eternalism’, which eliminates that problem and expands the explanatory scope of what he’s trying to talk about.

“… the progression of optimality in the vocabulary you’re using.”

Strange Loop: “… I don’t think that would have made or break Jimmy’s understanding of the theory however. … Jimmy has blinders on and he’s getting confused in terminology that if that was clarified I still think he would find something else, there’s just some kind of blinders on that, I don’t think the clarification of ‘eternalism’ would break down the walls for him.”

Max: “Interesting, I see, there’s more to it with him than just a simple mistake of using the wrong word. There’s this blindness, like a psychological thing that he has, rather than simply choosing the wrong word.”

Explanation (part 2): He’s Alternating Between Good and Bad Methodology (Faulty Premises of High Dose)

My analysis and explanation is that:

Kafei is trying to employ, alternatively, a good, standard methodology, which accurately states the Egodeath theory’s position, alternating with a bad, non-standard methodology, which states the Egodeath theory’s position as the opposite of the theory’s stated position.

The good methodology which returns the correct result, is normal reading of the Egodeath theory’s plain position-statements.

The bad methodology, which returns the opposite, incorrect result, is:
1) attempting to detect the binary presence or absence of high dose, and
2a) assuming that the detected presence of high dose necessarily means that the Theory asserts timelessness (that’s a conflation), and
2b) that the failure to detect high dose NECESSARILY MEANS THAT THE THEORY CANNOT BE ASSERTING TIMELESSNESS (that’s the other side of the same conflation). Even though the normal good methodology which Kafei alternatively uses, correctly represents the theory’s timelessness position.

That is my explanation: He’s alternating between two methodologies: one good, one bad, and trying, unsuccessfully, to combine the results.

The bad methodology has a conflation built-in:

  • Presence of detected high dose in a theory is the same thing as the theory asserting timelessness.
  • Absence of detected high dose in a theory is the same thing as the theory asserting unfolding-in-time.

Kafei then alternates between holding that bad methodology and its wrong conclusion; and the normal, good methodology and its correct conclusion.

The Great Mystics Are Admitted into the Exclusive Club of Timeless Metaphysics, Without Their Having to Advocate High Dose

Note that he somehow exempts the Great Mystics’ writings from his requirement to advocate high dose. Inconsistent much? 🙃

1:05:30 Misplaced Focus on ‘Psychedelics’; “Jesus Is a Mushroom” < the Resulting Phenomenology – but Still, Must Explicitly Lock-in Psychedelics, to Shut Out the Meditation Hucksters

Misplaced focus on ‘Psychedelics’; “Jesus Is a Mushroom” is inferior to highlighting the resulting phenomenology – but still, must explicitly lock-in ‘psychedelics’, to shut out the Meditation hucksters.

“psychedelics” – ahistoricity of Jesus has a wide literature (John Allegro, John Rush, Carl Ruck, Mark Hoffman [also Earl Doherty]: Jesus is ahistorical.

Jesus is a mushroom.

Still superficial is:

Jesus is a personification of psychedelics, eg mushroom.

eg the book The Pharmacratic Inquisition.

Max points out that that’s a misplaced focus.

It’s not getting at the phenomenological heart of the ED theory (or shift of experiential mental worldmodel), by focusing on the visionary plants themselves.

Max initially argues:

What’s relevant is the state of consciousness.

Psychedelics – more optimal, the state of consciousness or the phenomenology.

But guest points out that the word ‘psychedelics’ must be specified, if not emphasized.

Specifying ‘Psychedelics’ is required, to prevent the Meditation argument/lie/fraud, which is avoidance of effective transcendence.

What Is the Final, Bulletproof Sentence Describing the Egodeath Theory?

Finally, they form the phrase/statement: todo: __ from 1:09:00 — “the state of consciousness that is exclusively elicited by Psychedelics” – unfort, I don’t think Max ever came back to state the vulnerability-corrected 1-sentence definition; I guess he implies it would be:

Religion is a metaphorical description of discovering Eternalism in the psychedelic state of consciousness via ego death control-loss … the state of consciousness that is exclusively elicited by Psychedelics

Max implies: Try to combine those, as follows:

Religion is a metaphorical description of discovering Eternalism in the state of consciousness that is exclusively elicited by Psychedelics, via ego death control-loss.

Religion is a metaphorical description of discovering Eternalism in the state of consciousness that is exclusively elicited by Psychedelics, via ego death control-loss.

Judgment: Not Snappy

My wording phrasing of that statement would be more like: Take the pop bias, embrace it, but then scramble it, redirect it, in the right direction:

Start by Stating What Everyone Wrongly Believes, Then Redirecting the Finish Correctly

Religion is a metaphorical description of Psychedelics …

discovering Eternalism in the state of consciousness that is exclusively elicited by Psychedelics, via ego death control-loss.

My Formulation from the Conversation:
“Religion is a metaphorical description of Psychedelics revealing Eternalism via loss of control and ego death.”

Religion is a metaphorical description of Psychedelics revealing Eternalism via loss of control and ego death.

My objection: ok tech sentence but utterly depends on key term that no one knows: ‘eternalism’. That term stands out as the weak point, the point of failure of communication/meaning.

Even worse would be:

Religion is a metaphorical description of entheogens revealing eternalism via loss of control and ego death.

  • No one knows what the complicated, obfuscating term ‘entheogens’ means.
  • No one knows what the complicated, obfuscating term ‘eternalism’ means.

Proof & Critieria of Inadequacy and Failure of terms ‘Entheogens’ & ‘Eternalism’

Try posting that sentence in a random online chat forum:

Religion is a metaphorical description of entheogens revealing eternalism via loss of control and ego death.

People will reply in chat:

“I follow your chat post, except for the mystifying words ‘entheogens’ and ‘eternalism’. You lost me at ‘entheogens’, and then you lost me again at ‘eternalism’. Speak English.”

Religion is a metaphorical description of entheogens revealing eternalism via loss of control and ego death.

Religion is a metaphorical description of psychedelics revealing the timeless pre-existence of your future control-thoughts, thus loss of control and ego death.

Religion is a metaphorical description of psychedelics revealing the pre-existing future path of your life frozen in spacetime, producing loss of control and ego death.

People in genero-chat don’t know what these terms mean: block universe, worldlines, eternalism, entheogens.

‘Analogy’ Is Clearer than ‘Metaphor’

‘metaphor’ is vague; ‘analogy’ is better. No one’s quite sure what ‘metaphor’ means, but everyone is clear on the word ‘analogy’.

The word ‘metaphor’ is vague and complex-theory sounding, while ‘analogy’ is perfectly clear.

Hofstadter used the word ‘analogies’, not ‘metaphors’, in his book – 2 books – about Analogies.

Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies: Computer Models Of The Fundamental Mechanisms Of Thought
Douglas Hofstadter, 1995
http://amzn.com/0465024750

Hofstadter uses ‘Analogy’ & ‘Analogies’ in TWO Book Titles

Surfaces and Essences: Analogy as the Fuel and Fire of Thinking
http://amzn.com/0465018475
2013

Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies: Computer Models Of The Fundamental Mechanisms Of Thought
1995
http://amzn.com/0465024750

1:09:00 Say “the state of consciousness that is exclusively elicited by Psychedelics”

Max: “I see your point; by specifying only “the Psychedelic state of consciousness”, you lose this crucial point, which is that the psychedelic state of consciousness can only be elicited by drugs.

“Instead of calling it ‘psychedelics’, say:

“the state of consciousness that is elicited by psychedelic drugs, and only exclusively by psychedelic drugs”

The focus has to be on:
the state of consciousness; loose cognitive association binding.

The state of consciousness is the pillar, more than the drugs.

Drugs are the sole exclusive gateway to the experience of loosecog, egodeath, and worldmodel reconfiguration.

The state of consciouesness is crucial, more than the drugs themselves.

Hanegraaff’s Outrage-Inducing Theft-Attempt & Monstrosity, “Non-Drug Entheogens”

section by MH:

Shut down the meditation hucksters.

Outrageous Hanegraaff’s demonic monstrostity, malformed lying construction, “Non-drug entheogenic methods”. Stop, Thief!

Whose side are you on, Hanegraaff, the liars’?

Hanegraaff is trying to sell you Dehydrated Water by the gallon – as always in this field, hold onto your wallet!

The psychedelics state of consciousness can only be induced by visionary plants, despite the inflated marketing (when pressed, shifting goalposts and denial of the original aggressive braggadocio by meditation advocates).

The Theory Is an Airplane, Psychedelics is the Fuel

analogy: plane = the theory, fuel = the psychedelics.

the flying is important rather than the plane or fuel.

the experience, its experiential.

1:11:20 Sure Jesus Is a Mushroom, but How do Jesus Stories Describe Tripping?

Jesus is a mushroom not a historical person — beter: Jesus is the psychedelic expeirence. better expl of what Christianity is about. Allegro, John Rush. “Jesus is a mushroomm” but how do the Jesus stories describve tripping?

1:11:25 Cottage Industry of “Spot the Mushroom” Game

Stories: Israelites Manna (I have very good photos I took of smooth & spiked manna balls spread out 1.5’x3′).

There’s lots of writing like that, few writings about {Jesus seized by guards , put on trial, crucfied}, is a metaphorical description of self-battling cognitive dynamics, mind splits into ego freewill part of mind vs. transcendent deterministic part of mind- cognitive dynamics, not covered in the writings about “Jesus is a mushroom”.

1:10:14 The 3 pillars: det/cyb/loosecog (fails to lock-in psychedelics)

The 3 pillars:

o Determinism/Eternalism

o Self-control cybernetics

o Loose cognitive association binding

‘Psychedelics’ is less on-point than ‘Loose cognitive association binding’.

Note: A snake is the shape of gnosis, because experiencing one’s worldline of control as non-branching, frozen into the block universe.

1:13:00 Category Error of Chasing Mushrooms like Where’s Waldo, Pop Sike Spirituality trying to simply Negate/Remove Ego vs. Need to See Clarify What Ego Is

Category Error of Chasing Mushrooms like Where’s Waldo, Pop Sike Spirituality trying to simply Negate/Remove Ego vs. Need to See Clarify What Ego Is

1:13:20 Category Error: Chasing Mushrooms Like Where’s Waldo

Pop Sike spirituality, ego is to be rooted out/eliminated. No, clarify that the ego still exists but see it for what it is.

1:22:00 cyborg tripping

1:22:00 cyborg tripping

Needs to mention the Rush song The Body Electric.
http://www.egodeath.com/rushlyrics.htm#xtocid22998

End of Podcast

Private Email, Subject: Episode 25 notes (copied to above)

Found the Email of my Episode Commentary: a Private Email in Main Mailbox. Copied to Above.

check against Sent mailbox

Look for the Egodeath Yahoo Group posting, unless I totally stopped posting due to Yahoo removing the Web UI and I hadn’t yet learned to use Yahoo Mail to post to the group.

But if I stopped posting, why does my Notes file ED_topost2.md contain section “Some loose commentary on Episode 25”? (copied here) I wouldn’t have written that, without somehow posting it. eg Yahoo Mail doesn’t contain “Episode 25”.

What about main mailbox? Looks like I found the answer:

As a stopgap, I merely emailed my writeup privately, in main mailbox.
Subject: “Episode 25 notes“. Copied to above, in timestamp order.

Commentary on “Transcendent Knowledge Podcast” Episode 22 (2020-02-23) James Kent part 6

Site Map

Contents:

Episode Info

Episode 22, Feb 23, 2020 – James Kent (DoseNation) part 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on6EFVLF-58

Max Freakout and Cyberdisciple conclude their discussion about psychedelic journalist James Kent, in particular the recent ‘Final 10’ DoseNation podcast series.

Transcendent Knowledge Podcast episodes
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/11/07/transcendent-knowledge-podcast-episodes/
My page about the podcast series including outline of each episode.

Episode Outline

  • Western tradition of psychedelic drug use
  • Mushrooms and religion
  • Mushrooms as religious sacrament
  • Minimal, moderate and maximal theories of psychedelic religion
  • John Allegro and the cult of Amanita Muscaria
  • Gordon Wasson and the identity of Soma
  • Amanita mushroom references in Christian art and the ‘where’s Waldo?’ project
  • James Arthur and Jack Herer’s psychedelic scholarship
  • Over-emphasis on amanita, under-emphasis on psilocybe in psychedelic scholarship
  • The unpopularity of amanita mushrooms as a recreational drug
  • Mono-plant fallacy
  • Elite priestcraft conspiracy theory of mushrooms in Christianity
  • Andrew Letcher’s debunking of mushroom Christianity
  • Irrelevance of identifying a particular plant as religious sacrament
  • Does anyone really care about amanita mushrooms?
  • Metaphorical interpretation of the holy grail causing immortality
  • Rejection of pop-psychedelia
  • James Kent’s failure to integrate the ego death theory
  • Realistic expectations of psychedelic drugs
  • Direction of initiation and psychological progression
  • Lack of clear initiation ritual context in modern society

My Markup Copy of the Outline

Western tradition of psychedelic drug use

Mushrooms and religion

Mushrooms as religious sacrament

Minimal, moderate and maximal theories of psychedelic religion

[vs narrower or other scopes which is to say, OTHER CENTERING-focal-POINTS OF INQUIRY:

  • Min/Mod/Max theories of mushrooms in Greek & Christian religion

General note for this website: when I say “Greek & Christian”, it is shorthand for “Hellenistic & Christendom, integrated”, seen as interpenetrating, not as if hermetically isolated and separated and at odds with each other. It means Hellenistic+Christendom; or, “in Helleno-Christian history”; in the history of Helleno-Christianity.

John Allegro and the cult of Amanita Muscaria

Gordon Wasson and the identity of Soma

Amanita mushroom references in Christian art and the ‘where’s Waldo?’ project

James Arthur and Jack Herer’s psychedelic scholarship

Over-emphasis on amanita, under-emphasis on psilocybe in psychedelic scholarship

The unpopularity of amanita mushrooms as a recreational drug

Mono-plant fallacy

Elite priestcraft conspiracy theory of mushrooms in Christianity

Andrew Letcher’s debunking of mushroom Christianity

Irrelevance of identifying a particular plant as religious sacrament

Does anyone really care about amanita mushrooms?

Metaphorical interpretation of the holy grail causing immortality

Rejection of pop-psychedelia

James Kent’s failure to integrate the ego death theory

Realistic expectations of psychedelic drugs

Direction of initiation and psychological progression

Lack of clear initiation ritual context in modern society

Jan Irvin of the Past – His Book Publication Dates

2005-2009
Astrotheology & Shamanism: Christianity’s Pagan Roots. A Revolutionary Reinterpretation of the Evidence
Jan Irvin, Andrew Rutajit
2005, 2006, 2009
http://amzn.com/1439222428

2009
The Holy Mushroom: Evidence of Mushrooms in Judeo-Christianity
September 30, 2009
http://amzn.com/0982556209
I look more at Helleno-Christianity -mh.

2009
The Sacred Mushroom and The Cross: A study of the nature and origins of Christianity within the fertility cults of the ancient Near East
1970; [40th] Anniversary edition (November 12, 2009)
John Allegro; Jan Irvin (Introduction), Carl Ruck (Foreword), Judith Brown (Foreword)
http://amzn.com/0982556276
Publisher : Gnostic Media Research & Publishing

2:36 Intro – Kent’s Position

2:36

The history of psychedelics use in western culture.

Kent (sometimes) says no, there has not been a tradition of psychedelics use in Western culture — but Kent is inconsistent / self-contradictory here.

This confusion, vagueness, and inconsistency is typical of bad reasoning, especially around Allegro.

All critical writings about Allegro tend to be marked by confusion, vagueness, basic scholarship errors, and inconsistency, including self-contradiction. -mh

11:50, 14:50 Kent (Like Hatsis) Is Outdated, Trailing a Decade or Two Behind the Leading Edge of Research in the Field

11:50

14:50

Letcher can be a little more excused than Hatsis; Letcher’s book was written back when Irvin still held and asserted his values and views (focusing on Christianity instead of Hellenistic also (as I do); focusing on Amanita instead of all psychoactive mushroom species (as I do)). -mh

21:00 Kent’s Project Is to Separate (Break) the Connection Between Psychedelic Drugs & Religion

21:00

He fights against the Moderate view, he advocates the Minimal view —
the minimal entheogen theory of religion.
the moderate entheogen theory of religion.
“the

22:45 debunking and falsifying the psychedelic theory of religion

Why Doesn’t Max, or My Initial Comments, Point Out the Obvious: That the Field Conflates Amanita and Mushroom, Shutting Out the True Center, Psilocybe?

that question is Jan 13 2021. Below, I do work-up toward that critique, but not with the pointed shorthand of late, my embracing of
Psilocybe Scholarship Good, Amanita Scholarship Bad:
Destroy All Amanita Scholarship
(partially shared between both me and Letcher-Hatsis).

22:45 “debunking and falsifying the psychedelic theory of religion, as he sees it” — Max lists the ways.

  1. Allegro. “the cult of Allegro”, “the cult of Amanita”. Max largely agrees with Kent here. I agree with Kent here.
  2. Kent denies and dismisses the entire project of trying to find Amanita representations in Christian art, w/o any consideration that even 1% could be genuine.

This seems excessively discmissive even though Max and I are not [24:22] advocate the project of trying to find Amanita repre’ns in Christian art.

That project Amanita scholarship has its limitations.

Cyberdisciple sasys “I think that people know that now; we now have a lot of meta-scholarship on the scholarship on Amanita.”

Cyberdisciple seems to be praising the contributions of Letcher-Hatsis, here.

“Does Kent take on the claims that have been made about other mythologies … Soma tradition = Amanita?”

Max: “Kent lumps Soma in w/ Allegroism & the scholarly cult of [25:13] Amanita, bc he uses Wasson as the figurehead of Soma, and Wasson’s theory is Soma = Amanita.

26:00 Wasson-Allegro-McKenna

“Kent thinks Wasson & Allegro are grouped as one, typical [26:00], Amanita-cult (of scholars), which is like Hoffman on “Wasson-Allegro-McKenna”, all expressing the same idea about the mushroom.”

Do Not Utilize the Phrase “The Mushroom”; It Announces Contempt for Scientific Clarification

Above, careful saying the phrase “the mushroom”.

I would never utilize the phrase “THE MUSHROOM”, THAT IS A BAD-THEORY CONSTRUCT, IT’S WAY TOO VAGUE, way too loaded a phrase.

What am I supposed to mentally picture when someone says “the mushroom”?

Using the malicious, destructive phrase “the mushroom” is deliberately and maliciously unclear, it’s a bad-attitude statement “I disrespect and disavow all precision, I am trying to maliciously jam together and conflate all scholarly theorizing that has anything to do with mushrooms and religious history; I am bent on destroying the field, not clarifying the field.”

Using the phrase “the mushroom” is a loud announcement “I HEREBY DISCARD ALL SCIENTIFIC SCHOLARLY METHOD AND CLARITY AND PRECISION.” The term is loaded with sarcasm and bad attitude and so is completely useless.

We must critique the term “the mushroom”, but we cannot utilize the term, “the mushroom”.

I hate that phrase “the mushroom”; it is a nasty CONFLATION PROJECT, trying to mangle-together all variants of fields of scholarship theorizing about mushrooms and all religious history.

It is the most horrible SLOPPY UNSCHOLARLY CONFLATION-PURPOSED term; when you utilize the phrase “the mushroom”, you are announcing that you are going to throw out all scholarly care and precision and are entering massively anti-scientific conflation mode.

Fact-Check What My Position Has Been re: “Grouping” Wasson-Allegro-McKenna

NEED FACT-CHECK on My Position:

Have I written that Wasson-Allegro-McKenna can be grouped?

I doubt I have much grouped the three, but it depends on what sense of ‘group’.

Sure, you can identify something in common; none of them are the maximal entheogen theory of Christianity.

In What Way Can Wasson, Allegro, and McKenna Be Grouped? What Are Their Positions on Narrow & Broad Questions?

Wasson (focus: Amanita)

Moderate entheogen theory of religion
Minimal entheogen theory of Christianity; specifically:
… Minimal Amanita theory of Christianity

Allegro (focus: Amanita)

Moderate entheogen theory of religion
Moderate entheogen theory of Christianity; specifically:
… Moderate Amanita theory of Christianity

McKenna (focus: Psilocybe)

Moderate entheogen theory of religion
Minimal entheogen theory of Christianity; specifically:
… Minimal mushroom theory of Christianity (regardless of Amanita vs. multiple psychoactive mushroom species)

McKenna disagrees with Wasson & Allegro, in that McKenna focuses on Psilocybe, rather than Amanita.

McKenna disagrees with Allegro, MAYBE, re: whether primitive Christians used mushrooms at all. Need fact check.

All 3 agreed — despite Allegro’s self-contradictory no-context initial inclusion of Plaincourault image — no mushrooms in post-primitive Christian history. Here’s where I emphatically disagree, part of what makes me Maximal.

  • Later Christianity used mushrooms.
  • Later Christianity used mushrooms HEAVILY.
  • Primitive Christianity used mushrooms HEAVILY.
  • The entire surrounding culture, Hellenistic+Christendom used mushrooms HEAVILY; NORMALLY; in the Mainstream, from Antiquity until the start of the Modern era, such as Newton 1687.

Useful Ideas and Attitude in Kent re: X

27:06 where’s waldo

Amanita Single-Plant Fallacy for Christian History

field of Amanita-Christianity scholarship is endlessly looking at Christian art to make tenuous connections to Amanita, multipole books do this. Kent is correct here. MH calls this the mono-plant fallacy.

28:00 ANY plant that can loosen cognition can be a potential religious sacrament for religious exp’c and mystical ego death.

[January 13, 2021] lately I swing further: If before, I said “Don’t forget Psil too”, lately, I say “Forget Amanita! It’s the false center of the entheogen scholarship field! Put Psil at center INSTEAD!” Lately, I don’t merely say “Amanita is too narrow”; I say “Amanita has REPLACED Psilocybin; get rid of Amanita focus, replace it by Psilocybe focus.”

The Great Strength and Defensibility of the Position that Christianity Is Based on Psychedelics, and the Weakness and Indefensibility of the Too-Narrow Position that Christianity is Based on Amanita

28:40 That narrow theory makes for a weak, hard-to-defend theory. How brittle and open to attack.

The misguided efforts of entheogen scholars who presume “What we need to find is Amanita“, leaves the proponents of that too-narrow theory very open to attack & effective criticism like from Letcher-Hatsis. It’s a weak theory, that this ONE species (Amanita) is the key to the entire large claim that Christianity was based on psychedelics. It’s a narrower position to disprove, which is easier to disprove than the multi-plant position (eg any specifies of species of entheogenic plant or mushroom.

[January 13, 2021] – I dislike the above wording; instead, now, shove aside Amanita, and replace it by Psil instead, in entheogen scholarship.

30:27 Letcher’s book Shroom attacks one very very very narrow theory, priests hid… they take the VERY most narrow version they can POSSIBLY invent, and then CONFLATE that extremely hyper-narrow theory with the very opposite: the TOTAL, ALL-ENCOMPASSING, widest-possible theory.

They argue that the infinitely narrowed theory position, is the same as, the infinitely broad, all-inclusive theory that entheogens are important in Christian history.

  • The infinitely narrow theory invented, assumed, concocted (for the purpose of strawmanning/ misrepresentation of the field), and attacked by Letcher-Hatsis:
    “the “secret Amanita cult” theory, including a particular assumed model of transmission
    conflated like an SOB, per bad, illegitimate strategy, with:
  • The infinitely broad theory that:
    entheogens are important in Christian history

Kent falls into some of that bad reasoning, of Letcher-Hatsis.

Hidden then Revealed, vs. Brittle “Secret” Presuppositional Theory

[31:00]

The “transmitted secret cult” canard/ unexamined narrow presupposition.

Assumption that mushroom use was secret, deviant, abnormal, hidden, not revealed. vs. the Egodeath theory’s “hidden then revealed” model.

I cringed and halted a Hatsis video yesterday [now is 9:01 a.m. December 24, 2020] when he said “The ‘Holy Mushroom’ theory” and wanted to loudly rant and rave WTF ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT, THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS “THE HOLY MUSHROOM THEORY”, SPEAK ENGLISH!

Stop conflating like a MF! You’re just wrecking the field by your clumsy, sloppy thinking.

THIS IS NOT PROPER THEORIZING!

NO ONE KNOWS WHAT YOU’RE REFERRING TO; your phrase “the Holy Mushroom theory” IS NOT A PROPER CONSTRUCT IN the field of Western entheogen scholarship!”

Every time Hatsis says “the Holy Mushroom theory” I feel like he’s hallucinating what the field is.

Why does Letcher-Hatsis glorify and put Irvin (of 2009) up on a pedestal?

Acting as if Irvin — of 11 years ago, who doesn’t even believe those views and values anymore! — Irvin2009’s one, little, particular, narrow, quirky model of mushrooms in Christian history, is the same thing as the entire proposition in all of its forms, that Christianity was based on and continually inspired by mushrooms — REGARDLESS of the separate detail question of which species, whether it was “secret”, whether it was “suppressed”, and various other detail questions.

I really resent that conflation of the entire field of “mushrooms in Christian history” with the particular, weakest-theory-we-could-find-or-imagine, “the secret Amanita cult theory of Christianity”!

The SLOPPY thinking of Letcher-Hatsis is TRYING TO WRECK the field of Western entheogen scholarship.

Stop STRAWMANNING everyone in the field (Brown, me) by trying to FORCE us to be asserting a position which we DENY, the particular “transmitted secret Amanita cult” theory that Jan Irvin doesn’t assert either, anymore anyway. And hasn’t asserted for 11 years or so.

Like Kent, Hatsis’ theorizing is OUTDATED; he’s way behind in the field he presumes to critique.

What My Position Is, vs. the “Secret Amanita Cult” Theory of Christianity

My position is equally in Greek religion, not just Christian: my particular theory isn’t even within Christianity, it’s broader.

My thinking is essentially fundamentally broader than ONLY questioning mushrooms in Christian history; my concern is with Greek AND Christian history — as an INTEGRATED pursuit, pictured as ONE CHAPTER, not as two chapters.

In my mytheme decoding, I am always grouping Hellenistic and Christian mythemes together, with great success.

My mytheme decoding, integrating Greek & Christian evidence, is bolstered by World religious mythology, although that’s not my center of focus; the entire ancient “world”, of Western antiquity.

When I decode “vine leaf”, I gather examples of vine leaves from both Greek & Christian art.

I readily and successfully use evidence from Greek art to confirm and corroborate interpretations of Christian art & texts; and I use evidence from Christian art to confirm and corroborate interpretations of Greek art & texts.

Let’s consider for a moment only my theory within Christianity, momentarily shrinking me down to Irvin2009’s size of theory:

I assert that:

  • Christianity consciously shared the Greek banqueting tradition.
  • The mushroom in Hellenistic & Christendom religion was much more likely to be any of numerous species of Psilocybe (decorated with Amanita imagery), than literal use of Amanita.
  • Christian use of mushrooms was done consciously in the traditions-cluster of:
    • mystery-religion initiation
    • mixed-wine banqueting
    • esoteric Christianity

My theory is not Irvin’s theory, unlike the falsehood that Hatsis digs-in deeper, every time he utters his confused and confusing, loaded, strawmanning phrase, “the Holy Mushroom theory”.

Stop using a term from Irvin2009, which Irvin2020 doesn’t agree with.

My theory is not Irvin’s theory and cannot be conflated with Irvin’s theory, and must be considered, discussed, critiqued, and approached distinctly from Irvin’s theory.

Neither like hash-for-brains John Lash, is my theory “derived from Wasson” or “a variant of Wasson’s theory that is a considerable departure from it”.

What gibberish double-talk nonsense, that’s always connected with Amanita (and with Allegro).

MY THEORY IS NOT “A DEPARTURE FROM WASSON” — MY THEORY HAS JACK AND F-ALL TO DO WITH WASSON.

Don’t even relate my theory – A BONA FIDE ACTUAL THEORY – to Wasson’s garbled non-theory, ineptly expressed so that not one person on earth understands what his position is.

Anyone who describes my theory as “a variation of Wasson’s theory, including a considerable departure from it” is maliciously strawmanning and trying to make Wasson the king, owner, pole-star, boundary, and center of the field.

My theory has NOTHING to do with Wasson one way or another.

Wasson’s theory is CRAP and FALSE; WAY off-base, and ENTIRELY WRONG, and completely irrelevant.

Wasson’s “theory” isn’t even a theory; it’s a garbled heap of self-contradiction.

My theory has its own completely independent basis and origin.

Wasson can drop off a cliff, I DON’T CARE ABOUT ALLEGRO AND WASSON AT ALL, they are irrelevant nobodies and they aren’t in my field.

You might as well say my theory is a “considerable departure from football.”

John Lash’s caricaturization of ALL writers on entheogens as “variants of the Wasson theory” is MEANINGLESS GIBBERISH designed to make Wasson and Allegro the center and boundary of the field of Western entheogen scholarship.

I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WASSON AND HIS BRAIN-DEAD, INEPTLY STATED THEORY.

MY THEORY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WASSON AND IS NEITHER “DERIVED FROM WASSON” NOR “A VARIANT OF WASSON’S THEORY INCLUDING A CONSIDERABLE DEPARTURE FROM WASSON”, SPAGHETTI-FOR-BRAINS.

WHAT ABOUT YOUR THEORY, JOHN LASH — YOU OWN BAD LOGIC RENDERS YOUR OWN THEORY AS “A VARIANT OF WASSON’S THEORY, INCLUDING A CONSIDERABLE DEPARTURE FROM IT”. WHAT GARBLED NONSENSE!

STOP TRYING TO ENSLAVE US ALL TO WASSON AND ALLEGRO.

STOP HANDING THE ENTIRE FIELD TO WASSON-ALLEGRO.

WASSON AND ALLEGRO ARE IRRELEVANT FOR THE FIELD OF WESTERN ENTHEOGEN SCHOLARSHIP.

Amanita Sucks as an Entheogen

37:04 Max’s intellectual history.

Max was frustrated with Heinrich’s writing about Amanita despite Amanita being uninteresting and un-ergonomic – Max wanted to hear about Psilocybe mushrooms & effects, not the surface form of Amanita like the books all obsessed on and limited the field to.

Only McKenna was covering Psilocybe.

All other entheogen scholars were madly fixated and obsessed on Amanita, and even then, merely on its superficial surface form, not its cognitive phenomenology and explaining that.

Why did ALL other writers obsess & fixate on Amanita? -max

I recently wrote the same and started a page to examine just how bad has this problem been:
Was Phase 1 of the Field of Western Entheogen Scholarship in Fact Centered Around Amanita?

The giant super striking photo in Heinrich’s book is a very lousy reason to obsess on Amanita (ignoring all the Psilocybine-containing species) and equate/conflate:

  • the entire broad theory/field of scholarship, eg
    • the mushroom theory of Christianity
  • (but I’d integrate and include Hellenistic religion too, as the orienting-center of focus, NOT making Christianity the orienting-center of focus as if to hermetically isolate Hellenism from Christendom)
  • with only, specifically and exclusively, the Amanita theory/field of scholarship;
    • the Amanita theory of Christianity
  • I specifically advocate:
    • the Psilocybe theory of Greek & Christian religion
  • by ‘psilocybe’, I mean all mushroom species that contain psilocybin and/or psilocin.

Usage-Definition: In my writings, by ‘psilocybe’, I mean all mushroom species that contain psilocybin and/or psilocin. Assume Mediterranean was lush and moist and had many mushrooms. “It was a dry desert with no mushrooms” is a myth, opposite of truth. The region was moist and had a plethora of mushrooms; there was no shortage of mushrooms as fantasized by modern, anti-mushroom biased writers.

todo: gather these definitonal usage-conventions of mine, into a single lookup-able place, eg in my Theory Concepts page.
amanitaholygrailheinrich.jpg (703×517)

Strange Fruit: Alchemy and Religion: The Hidden Truth
Strange Fruit: Alchemy, Religion and Magical Foods: A Speculative History

The above is an alternate subtitle within this edition eg title page.
Clark Heinrich, 1994 (Amazon says “January 1, 1995”)
ISBN: 0747515484

Clark Heinrich.  Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy.  (2nd ed. of Strange Fruit.)  ISBN: 0892817720.  2002.

todo: there’s — fix the above ISBN #/ link, in orig webpage my 2006 article’s Bibliography. That ISBN is for Merkur’s book Mystery of Manna.

Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy
2nd Edition
http://amzn.com/0892819979

The Existence of Amanita Has Set Back Entheogen Scholarship and Understanding of Psychedelics by Decades

42:00

The existence of Amanita set “psychedelic scholarship … drugs & symbolism back”, leads to “fighting” (Hatsis), made a reputation for himself by fighting Irvin, to get a book deal.

Letcher’s book fighting against Irvin, created its own academic market of arguing over these things, that is not really particularly relevant, or important, or leading-edge.

Max: It’s a misleading waste of time on the way to the Egodeath theory. because Amanita has set back psych scholarship in this way, it’s also setting back Kent’s own thinking in the same way, in his critique of Pop Sike culture that’s talking about Amanita.

Kent has exactly same blindness about amanita as the people he’s criticizing.

The Poorness of Amanita as an Entheogen Disproves the Pop “Amanita Theory of Christianity”, not the “Mushroom Theory of Christianity” as Kent Over-Concludes

44:22

Kent argues that Amanita is very unpopular, and is not very psychoactive — he uses that argument to supposedly disprove the ENTIRE field of invesigation, of psychedelics in Christian history.

Kent argues: How could Amanita be the true sacrament that has been hidden by the Priestcraft for centuries, if even nowadays when everybody knows about Amanita and has access to Amanita, nobody can be bothered to take Amanita? that’s a score against the theory.

Cyberdisciple agrees with Kent that the poorness of Amanita as an entheogen is a score against “the theory” but Cyberdisciple clarifies, unlike Kent:

“The poorness of Amanita as an entheogen is not a score against the psychedelic Christianity theory; the poorness of Amanita as an entheogen is a problem only for the very narrow, Amanita-specific, single-species theory.

Truly, You Have a Dizzying Intellect: Mushrooms on Church Door Proves: No Hidden Mushrooms; thus Proves: No Mushrooms in Christian History

Cyberdisciple: “Hasn’t this argument been made already, that the poorness of Amanita as an entheogen disproves bad entheogen scholarship and bad Pop Sike Cult, that fixates on Amanita as the uber-entheogen of Christian history?

“What’s Kent doing here that’s new, isn’t this just what Letcher was saying over a decade ago?”

Max: “Yes, though Kent uses different examples. Letcher leans heavily on a Belgium cathedral door, which Kent doesn’t mention.”

My passage copied from idea development page 6:

Books by Andy Letcher that are rushed out by big-name Establishment presses, making loud-sounding arguments about nothing in particular, a shell game, in which we nod our heads in dizzied consent that this constitutes an argument:

“The mushroom on the church door is evidence that there’s no hidden mushrooms in Christian art.

Therefore I have shown there’s no evidence for mushrooms in religion; such use is late 20th C only.”

Letcher

Yes Letcher, truly you have a dizzying intellect; I give in!

Movie: Princess Bride, “battle of the wits” scene, after convoluted but futile argument. 2:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZSx3zNZOaU&t=170s (after skip ads)

You are right (in your theory and position, whatever it is, that shifts on every other page, as needed, to give the right surface impression of something having been proved).

His book has all the logical structure of a pile of oatmeal.

/ end of passage copied from idea development page 6

Letcher Hatsis Kent Pretends to Dismiss the Entire “Mushroom Theory of Christianity” by Merely Disproving the “Secret Amanita Cult Theory of Christianity”

“Door aside, THE SHAPE OF THE THEORIZING IS EXACTLY THE SAME in Kent & Letcher; it’s the same counterattack to a relatively unimportant and very narrow theory.

“So Kent’s argument/critique is basically uninteresting.”

[then in some aspects, we can criticize together, the Letcher-Hatsis-Kent argumentation, their attempt to dismiss the entire “mushroom theory of Christianity” (or Hellenistic & Christendom), by simply merely disproving the “Amanita theory of Christianity”. -mh]

“But it’s worth deconstructing for its sheer relevance because it’s talking about this crucial idea of psychedelia and religion.

[44:30] No One Uses or Likes Amanita, so it’s a terrible particular theory, the particular specific theory that Amanita was secret and was THE mushroom for Christian history.

[45:30] differences between, but much more the similarities of fallacies committed by Letcher & Hatsis.

The Specific Entheogen Identity of Soma and Kykeon Is of Limited Importance

46:07

“Soma wasn’t Allegro’s concern. Soma was Wasson’s concern.

“Other writers great effort to try to identify Soma and also in Western tradition Kykeon as well, so much ink spilled trying to give precise singular identities to Soma & Kykeon, whereas it’s all really just a misleading waste of time on the way to the Egodeath theory, which points out that both Soma and Kykeon are simply going to be entheogenic sacraments.

“It doesn’t matter what they are, as long as they are entheogenic psychedelic.”

46:30 single-plant fallacy [single-species of Amanita vs. multi-species Psilocybin-containing -mh]

47:00

Cyberdisciple — overemphasis on Kykeon causes the single-plant fallacy.

47:00

Cyberdisciple:

“Overemphasis on Eleusis and the Kykeon there, within Greek culture entheogen scholarship.

“It doesn’t really matter proving which plant used, that’s not really where the action is, what’s important and revolutionary.

“We don’t need that smoking-gun evidence in that way.

“This whole model of how do we PROVE psychedelics in the past and past religious cultures, we don’t need to find the exact plant, in order to do the work of the changing our paradigm of religious history and religion.”

47:43

Max: Kent concludes nobody cares about Amanita, that’s true and false. It’s true and false that people overemphasize amanita.

Kent fails to move beyond the people he criticizes, toward the Egodeath theory.

Conflation and Mis-Centering a Critique

My theory is: Psilocybe in mixed-wine banqueting, mystery-religion initiation, and esoteric Christianity.

My theory is not centered on Christianity.

My theory in the field of Western entheogen scholarship encompasses Christian history, but my theory is not centered on Christian history, nor specifically on primitive Christianity (as is Allegro).

My theory is CENTERED ON Hellenistic & Christendom history.

My theory is not centered like Allegro, on primitive Christianity, and so my theory cannot be judged from a standpoint that’s centered on primitive Christianity, that assumes centrality of the concern of primitive Christianity.

Why does Letcher-Hatsis insist on equating one, narrow, very particular model of the relationship of “mushrooms” and “Christianity”, with the ENTIRE general broad theory or question of “what is the significant role of mushrooms in Christianity?”

Letcher-Hatsis commits a fallacy of conflating:

  • A PARTICULAR SPECIFIC explanatory theory, more or less specified by Jan Irvin2009 (but NOT Irvin 2015+) in particular,
    with the opposite in scope:
  • The most general possible theory that mushrooms were in some way important in Christian history.

No Valid Scientific Method if Sloppy Basic Thinking

Hatsis can lecture all he wants about sound scientific historians’ methodology, but he’s sloppy at basic thinking/theorizing.

No amount of alleged sound scientific historians’ methodology can rescue your bad scholarship, if you are sloppy at basic thinking and theorizing.

Conflating a Particular Narrow Theory with a General Broad Theory — Disproving the Particular Theory Does Not Disprove the General Theory

Sloppy conflation of a particular theory with a general theory, is part of “sound scientific historian methodology”, according to Hatsis’ methodology.

The Folly of Basing One’s Entire Critique on a Single Book, from 11 Years Ago (Which the Author Would No Longer Advocate Anyway)

Evidentially Hatsis has only read ONE book in the general field or theory of “mushrooms had an important role in Christian history”: Jan Irvin’s The Holy Mushroom (2009; 11 years ago).

Hatsis strongly gives the impression that he has only read or considered ONE writer in the field, of mushrooms in Christian history.

Forget Hermetically Isolated Christianity (a Fiction); Consider Greek & Christian; Hellenistic & Christendom Together

It’s a malformed field. People should not just look at the theory that “Mushrooms had an important role in Christian history“; scholars should instead look at the theory that “Mushrooms (of VARIOUS species) had an important role in GREEK AND Christian history.

Mushrooms (of VARIOUS species) had an important role in GREEK AND Christian history.

Hatis is trying to GIVE and HAND OVER and ENSLAVE the *entire* theory that mushrooms were important in Christian history, to Jan Irvin of 2009, who doesn’t even advocate that theory or values anymore!

Since WHEN does Jan Irvin “own” the entire proposition that mushrooms were important in Christian history?

Stop making Jan Irvin (of 11 years ago) the single, only spokesman for the ENTIRE theory that mushrooms were important in Christian history!

Letcher-Hatsis has so many presuppositions that he folds into his malformed usage, his misuse of his construct, “the Holy Mushroom theory”.

Every time Letcher-Hatsis says “the Holy Mushroom theory”, he’s conflating massively:

  • A narrow, hyper-specific, particular theory, with the entire broad as possible overall general theory, that mushrooms were IN SOME WAY — not necessarily particularly specified — in Christian history.

Conflating “Confirming Mushrooms in Christian Art” with “Identifying What the Holy Grail Refers to”: Literalist, Poetry-Illiterate “Granter of Immortality”

At 1:09:00 in episode 8, Kent asserts that identifying mushrooms in Christian art is specifically the issue of, we need to identify what The Holy Grail refers to. Some say upturned Amanita, immortality.

[To an appropriate, limited extent, I too have been interested in Amanita:

  • My first research question in entheogen scholarship was the book of Revelation chapter 10, angel-given, eaten scrolls that give visions, which I was happy with Heinrich having solved/identified; I agree with Heinrich’s 1994/1995 book which I read in 1999, that the eaten scroll of Revelation 10 refers to Amanita.
  • The Holy Grail refers to the upturned Amanita.
  • Those are my best photographs, of a rain-pool pair of Holy Grail Amanitas.
  • It was particularly valuable that my photos of Holy Grail prove that the Dionysus Triumph leopard fountain is upturned Amanita.

Those are the ways I’ve been “part of the problem”, of being almost too positive toward Amanita, instead of my recent, principled, better-centered focus on Psilocybe in Greek & Christian history. -mh]

Picture of Eating Scroll, of Revelation/Ezekiel, from John Rush

Mushroom in Christian Art, Chapter 3
John Rush
http://www.clinicalanthropology.com/mushroom-in-christian-art/mushroom-in-christian-art-chapter-three/

Rush’s comment: “The Angel Gives John the Book to Eat, Douce Apocalypse, 1265-1270 CE  Notice the angel represents the stalk of the mushroom-cloud from which he or she emerges, and the celestial erection in John’s cape once he eats the “book.””

http://www.clinicalanthropology.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/mca3_28.jpg

My Amanita Photos

https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/13/photos-of-amanita-muscaria-mushrooms-to-identify-mushrooms-in-greek-christian-art/
find ‘hoffman’

Photo by Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com http://www.egodeath.com/images/amanitashinycappieces.jpg
Photo by Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com http://www.egodeath.com/images/amanitacollection.jpg
Photo by Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com
photo — Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death, 10/10/2010
Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
photo — Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
IMG_3647.JPG
IMG_2697.JPG — Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death
Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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Photo: Michael Hoffman, the theorist of ego death 10:10 a.m. 10/10/2010
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The Mytheme: {Holy Grail grants Immortality}

49:00

At 1:09:00 in episode 8, Kent re: identifying mushrooms in Christian art is specifically need to identify what The Holy Grail refers to. Some says upturned Amanita, immortality.

Kent mis-argues that “Amanita only gets you high for a few hours, it doesn’t grant you immortality; therefore Amanita cannot possibly be the real Holy Grail.”

49:41 immortality is related to eternity.

Experiencing timeless eternity in the altered state (loose cognitive binding), IS produced by Amanita, disproving Kent’s argument. eternalism.

Point of view where the mind sees that everything has already happened; the 4D block universe.

The Egodeath theory clearly explains experiencing eternalism/ immortality/ eternity.

Regarding the mytheme {immortality}, Kent’s mytheme-illiteracy prevents him from thinking clearly about evidence.

Kent’s blindness to meaning-flipping. 2-level meaning of religious texts.

There are various meanings packed into {immortality}.

Kent fails to define what he means by “immortality”.

Literalist, lack of critical thinking about meanings; Kent uses unstated presumption, thus literalism and the single-meaning fallacy.

Kent fails to define what he means by the terms that he denies.

Kent repeatedly says “x is false” but doesn’t define ‘x’.

51:55

Cyberdisciple lists meanings of {immortality}, rattling off several off top of head, while Kent doesn’t even TRY to define ANY such meanings.

Kent’s thinking typifies literalist (ordinary-state possibilism) thinking. Failure to have Poetry Consciousness, which is a REQuirement to interpret.

Kent is OUT of the field of religion-interpretation, becasuse he’s literalist, and he assumes the audience is all literalists too.

Literalism the only mode Kent is able to think in.

Brags About Adherence to Scientific Method, Yet Fails to Use Scientific Method Competently

55:00

Kent brags about “the scientific method” — in a regressive way; he uses very brittle reductionist OUTDATED mode , caricature, of “scientiific”.

Kent is regressive, NOT scientific. the Egodeath theory is definitive of the actual Scientific method.

If Kent Were Actually Progressive and Scientific, He Would Study the Egodeath Theory

55:20

the Egodeath theory precisely fits/solves/addresses Kent’s complaints about Pop Sike eg dark side.

56:20

Paranormal is criticized — the Egodeath theory same, provides better, metaphor interpretation.

So it’s completely ridiculous to say the Psych Community is regressive yet ignore the Egodeath theory. for psychedelics to move ahead.

Block re: explaining religion, Kent’s hangups, instead of UNDERSTANDING religion.

Kent Wants to Destroy Religion, Not Understand Religion

58:00

59:00

ppl aren’t dealing w/ these questions

59:20 if you believe in progress, you have to recog that the conditions — egoic scienfitic methods — is just 1 stage of progress. rationalistic scientific way of thinking. “highly evolved state” Kent is thinking of, is actually, immature undeveloped egoic.

Kent talks of evolutionary states, yet he dismisses higher knowledge as hallucination. and glorifies egoic reductionistic type of scientism.

Kent fails to consider Loose Cognitive Science (which the Egodeath theory enables and is the requisite, mandatory gateway for), even though his book (which he doesn’t mention) is neuroscience.

The DARK SIDE AND PSYCHEDELICS WILL keep coming up, against Kent’s emotional wish for them to just go away.

We can’t keep trying to shut out self-control loss, the religious altered state (loose cognitive binding) and shut out the death of possibilism-premised model of self and world; those factors will keep coming up, bursting in (due to the innate structure of the mind); Kent tries to the shut the door again on the religious effects of psychedelics.

Max: Kent emotionally says, wants to shut out this barrage of interest in religious use of entheogens, “Just stop talking about sacred mushrooms, they’re not sacred!”

Cyberdisciple: “Kent’s immature.”

1:02:30

Max: “I lost interest; Kent’s content is not worth critique.”

/ end of discussion of Kent

Jan Irvin had a very similar trajectory: he was all pro- Pop Sike, then flipping against it. “I don’t take his line of thinking seriously.”

“Kent has a more earnest attempt than Irvin to critique & deal w/ Pop Sike inadequacies.”

“I always wanted to not end up being like that, flipping against psychedelics. after 10-15 years, the Egodeath theory , the religious significance of psychedelics.

By breaking down Kent’s argument, I can avoid that trap.”

1:05:13

Cyberdisciple: “We have sympathy with Kent’s critiques of the over-inflated “selling” of Pop Sike.

Max: “Healing” is oversold, that leads to disappointment, which is not healthy for… which is a danger in the ‘psychedelic community’.

“parallel: Kent talks of the inevitablity of Western culture abandoning psychedelic ritual. He’s actually describing himself.

Why Transcendent Knowledge Is of Highest Value

Why Psychedelics Are the Most Valuable Thing

See my WordPress page:
Why Transcendent Knowledge Is of Highest Value

MH never bougtht into Pop Sike and conflated that w/ the true value of psychedelics; figured out for himself the true value of psychedelics.

1:08:29

1:09:21 “Benefits”

1:10:30 wrmspirit discussing “benefits”, Cyberdisciple’s comment on a WordPress post thread. Rock lyrics.

1:11:30

Benefits of Psychedelics

  • having that eternalism experience of switching mental worldmodels, makes clear the limits of the egoic control system , the limits of its logic.
  • brings peace and light to understand.
    • brings terror, so that:
    • coming out the other side is a kind of peace.
  • Cyberdisciple never gets angry any more.
  • His laundry is whiter than when egoic thinking.
  • He now sits on a cloud unperturbed.
  • Birds & butterflies fly to him.
  • He can never be moved; unmovable, unshakeable; rock solid.

Cultural Integration of Initiation, Coming-of-Age Ceremony Connected with Psychedelic Experiencing

Initiation in Culture; Cultural Integration of Initiation, in Multi-State Post-Modernity Cutlure. Look for that in religion.

1:16:00

Initiation and its cultural place.

1:17:30

Baptism of youths, and bar mitzva ceremonies, develop in conjunction with … Baptisms in an earlier era were meant to reflect psychedelic experiencing, so that later the ceremony would be understood in retrospect, as connected with psychedelic experiencing.

1:18:02 – end

Was Phase 1 of the Field of Western Entheogen Scholarship in Fact Centered Around Amanita?

Site Map

Contents:

Brown’s Reply Mostly Reassures Me that Amanita-Mania Was Not So Dominant in Phase 1 of Entheogen Scholarship eg 1956-2009

tbd

Brown corroborates a tendency I noticed, to assign the classic entheogen Psilocybe to the Americas, and restrict Europe to just the Amanita mushroom, during 1956-2009 entheogen scholarship, erasing psilocybe from theory-possibilities we consider for Greek & Christian religious history.

1956: Centaurs’ Food essay by Robert Graves (it’s hard to get details on his first titling of this essay, the date, and the magazine issue).

2009: Irvin’s 3 books published, strong tendency (probably) leaning to Amanita away from Psilocybe).

Key Phrases for Phase 2 of the Field of Western Entheogen Scholarship: The New Theory of Mushrooms in Greek & Christian Religion

Western entheogen scholarship = psychedelics, of which Psilocybe is definitive and ideal and flexible, in ancient Greek/ Hellenistic/ Christian / Christendom, including for example, luxury color illustrated bestiaries for teaching Christian morality.

the field of Western entheogen scholarship

Psilocybe in mystery-religion initiation & mixed-wine banqueting
Psilocybe in mixed-wine banqueting & mystery-religion initiation

Psilocybe in mixed wine & mystery religion
Psilocybe in mystery religion & mixed wine

Psilocybe in mystery-religion & banqueting

Psilcybe in mixed wine, mystery religion, and esoteric Christianity
Psilcybe in mixed-wine banqueting, mystery-religion initiation, and esoteric Christianity. pmwbmriec

Did Brown “Move the Goalpost”, or Move to Phase 2 of Western Entheogen Scholarship?

Did Brown at one time defend Amanita as the center of the universe of entheogen scholarship, and then did he “move the goalpost” and switch to instead, falling back to a more easily defensible position, of Psilocybe instead?

In a video debate, Hatsis characterized Brown as “oh, so you’re moving the goalpost” because Brown refused to be a devoted Amanita-defender; Brown failed to conform to Hatsis’ tilting-at-windmills, his strawman, the only game he knows how to play.

____________________

2. Is it true that the field of Western entheogen scholarship in its first, formative phase was squarely centered on Amanita, and was mostly limited to Amanita as the universal solution explain to Mixed-Wine, Mystery Religion, and Esoteric Christianity?

Why do scholars all rush to imagine Amanita in Esoteric Christianity, instead of Psilocybin in Esoteric Christianity; imagine Amanita in Mystery Religions such as Mithraism, instead of Psilocybin in Mystery Religion?

Why was Ruck blind to the Psilocybe mushroom in Mithras’ leg, while he spun long-shot tales of red and white color in Mithra’s cape indicating Amanita?

Is there some grand conspiracy among scholars to push Amanita and ignore the superior Psilocybe?

Why do scholars assign all the good entheogens to South America, and all the bad, fallback, 3rd-rate pseudo-psychedelics to European religious history?

I’ve even literally read that Europe doesn’t have Psilocybe mushrooms, and therefore Psilocybe cannot be the topic of entheogen scholarship in Western religious history (probably in some source as credible as Letcher).

I know why John Lash is biased against mushrooms in Christianity (he hates Christianity and thus it cannot be allowed to have his precious mushrooms in its history);

I know why McKenna is biased against the existence of mushrooms in Christianity, (Big Bad Church);

I know why Hatsis is biased against the existence of mushrooms in Christianity:

  • He’s “selling” Mandrake instead, as his witches’ product.
  • He’s selling his text-based, privilege-the-text “scientific historian” methods, which a priori discard 5/6 = 83% of the types of evidence; his “scientific” method which in effect, says that art evidence never counts, and only text evidence counts — and that text evidence must only be literal, plain, explicit, direct descriptions in text.

Of the two media (art and texts), only one counts: texts (it’s an understatement to say that he “privileges” texts).

Of the 3 levels of evidence (Literal; Stylized; Effects), only 1 of the 3 counts: Literal.

Stylized depictions never count, and depictions of effects never count; only botanical literal depictions count; but those don’t count, and are cancelled out, because they aren’t text, just art; and only text counts.

Specifically, only direct, literal descriptions and explicit mentions of mushrooms by name, in texts, counts.

The other 5 of 6 evidence-types never count.

We must eliminate 83% of the types of evidence, and restrict ourselves to 1/6 = 17% of the types of evidence.

So that’s why Hatsis is biased against Psilocybe in Christian history.

WHY THE F*CK IS EVERY GODDAM ENTHEOGEN SCHOLAR BIASED AF AGAINST PSILOCYBE IN Christian HISTORY, except for Brown & me? What the hell!!

In 2011, Ruck is still pumping out books obsessing on Amanita.  

Mushrooms, Myth and Mithras: The Drug Cult that Civilized Europe
Ruck, Hoffman, Celdran, 2011
http://amzn.com/0872864707

Am I the lone odd man out, and Letcher-Hatsis is correct that the entire field of Western entheogen scholarship really is identified (incorrectly) with Amanita? 

Am I the only Western entheogen scholar who doesn’t identify the field of Western entheogen scholarship with Amanita?

What the f*ck is it with this Amanita obsession/fixation, including by Letcher-Hatsis, who limits his books to Amanita, and who hasn’t heard of Cubensis & Liberty Caps? What’s up with that??

My 1986/1995/1999 Finding in the field of Western Entheogen Scholarship: The Eaten Scroll in Revelation 10 Is Amanita

By historical accident, even I have roots in Amanita: the first question I asked in the field, in 1986, was What is the eaten scroll of Revelation 10? 

I was satisfied in 1999 by Heinrich’s 1995 answer: Amanita, and I agree that Revelation 10 refers to Amanita.

Maybe since the first entheogen people find in Christianity is Amanita in Revelation 10 and Ezekiel, that caused fixation on Amanita at the expense of the superficially boring but more cognitively effective & historically relevant Psilocybe.

__________________

3. Can someone reassure me that the field of Western entheogen scholarship was not centered on Amanita and practically limited to Amanita?

I hope the field of Western entheogen scholarship was never actually centered around Amanita. 

I might have to say:

Phase 1 of Western entheogen scholarship = Amanita.  1956-2003 or -2011

(2011 — perish the thought. Ruck’s book on Mithras. Have these Amanita obsessives ever TRIED the stuff? At least Heinrich did; his book Strange Fruit is respectable.)

“2003” above: = Entheos issues 1-4, and my 2003 announcement of the maximal entheogen theory of religion.

I hate that concession, that people in the field were so dumb, that the first 55 years of Western entheogen scholarship, on mystery religion initiation, mixed-wine banqueting, and esoteric Christianity, the single-minded focus is Amanita as the universal (wrong) solution for explaining all things esoteric.

Can someone save me & the field, and show that the field of Western entheogen scholarship was not drenched in, and held prisoner in, the Amanita single-plant fallacy/fixation/obsession for 1956-2011, for 55 years?

Phase 2 of Western entheogen scholarship = Psilocybe (and less-ideal fallbacks) in mixed-wine banqueting & mystery-religion initiation.

My coming onto the Western entheogen scholarship scene, spelled the end of the Amanita single-plant fallacy, and displaced Amanita by
Psilocybe in Psilocybe in mixed wine & mystery religion;
Psilocybe in mixed-wine banqueting & mystery-religion initiation.

Phase 1 of Western Entheogen Scholarship Was Amanita; Phase 2 is Psilocybe in Mixed Wine & Mystery Religion

Reluctant Framing:

  • Phase 1 of Western Entheogen Scholarship Was Amanita
  • Phase 2 of Western Entheogen Scholarship is Psilocybe in Mystery-Religion Initiation & Mixed-Wine Banqueting

Reluctant Framing:

  • Phase 1 of Western Entheogen Scholarship Was Amanita in Christianity & Mystery Religions
  • Phase 2 of Western Entheogen Scholarship is Psilocybe in Mystery-Religion Initiation & the Ancient Mixed-Wine Banqueting Tradition

I hate this narrative about Phase 1 = Amanita, it’s a sh*tty situation if true. If true, we have to fix the situation.

Email Draft Not Sent to Jerry Brown

Is it true that the field of entheogen scholarship in its first, formative phase was centered on Amanita?  

If that is the happenstance fact, I’ll have to say:

Phase 1 of Western entheogen scholarship = Amanita.

Phase 2 of Western entheogen scholarship = pmrmw pmrmw

Maybe I’ll have to concede that the field of entheogen scholarship did make a huge mistake and really was Amanita-fixated in its first phase.

If so, then I need to talk about a New, Different, Mature Phase of the field, that the field of entheogen scholarship was indeed Amanita-centric, but the field has moved past that error, into a different, mature phase; that the field of entheogen scholarship is moving to a next phase, where Amanita is relatively irrelevant.

Hatsis is confused by the change of focus in Phase 2 of the field of entheogen scholarship.  

Brown is operating within Phase 2 of the field of entheogen scholarship.

Phase 1 of the field of Western entheogen scholarship was centered on Amanita.  

hate that notion and I hope it is not true, that the field so began.

Phase 2 of the field of Western entheogen scholarship is centered on (eg) Psilocybe in the Mystery Religion Initiation & Banqueting Tradition.

I and Brown are operating in Phase 2 of the field, but Hatsis is still stuck in Phase 1 of the field.

From Hatsis’ perspective, Brown is an Allegro follower of a certain type: a bad, unfaithful, deviant follower, and Brown (by being in a Phase 2 that Hatsis is unaware of) has “moved the goalpost” in Browns’ effort to defend “The Allegro-Amanita Holy Mushroom Theory”, which is the only theory Hatsis can imagine, being stuck as he is, in Phase 1 of Western entheogen scholarship.

In Hatsis’ mind, the only possible way to not be a follower of the “secret Amanita cult” theory, is by rejecting mushrooms in Christian history.

If Brown asserts mushrooms in Christian history, then by definition, per Phase 1 the field of Western entheogen scholarship, Brown is a “follower of Allegro” and Brown is an advocate of the “secret Amanita cult” theory.

Letcher-Hatsis would strive for Phase 2 of the field of Western entheogen scholarship, to be some form of “no mushrooms in Christianity”. 

Because Phase 1 was wrong, and Phase 1 reduced-down the entire field of Western entheogen scholarship into solely the “secret Amanita cult” theory, this means — in their confused and biased thinking — that Phase 2 of the field of Western entheogen scholarship must therefore be, “no mushrooms in Christianity”.

Pope Wasson approves.

Ever-malformed argumentation around Allegro-Amanita Madness:

I wonder if there’s any validity to Hatsis arguing that Jerry Brown “moved the goalpost” by not defending Amanita, but defending Psilocybe (Cubensis & Liberty Caps) instead.

Hatsis’ argument depends on everyone in the entire field of entheogen scholarship, making Allegro-Amanita the very center and omphalus navel origin, of the entire field of entheogen scholarship.

I strongly reject the narrative that “the field of entheogen scholarship comes from Amanita”.  

That narrative might have some, accidental historical origin of truth, happenstance; but even if so, the origin of the field is irrelevant to the later, more mature & developed field.  

We aren’t in 1970 anymore!!  Even if the Pop wing or tier of the field of entheogen scholarship still acts like we are stuck for eternity in 1970.

Eject Hatsis’ infinite-loop 8-track tape! That album kind of sucks and there’s much better.

Ruck’s book Apples of Apollo is about Amanita, and claims that myth describes the Amanita plant (not its effects).  (Boring & limited.)  

I wonder if Ruck’s book The Effluents of Deity covers Psilocybe or cognitive phenomenology experiential effects, or is limited to “this art depicts the physical form of Amanita — boring & limited; superficial, narrow. 

The single-plant fallacy. 

The plant-focus fallacy (vs. Effects)).

The accidental, halting, off-base origin of a field should never hold it back; that is not how Scientific Knowledge progress works.  

People are trying to hamper and cripple the field of entheogen scholarship by shackling the field with the Allegro-Amanita permanent ball-and-chain.

The messy, malformed, backwards, initial phase of a field should not eternally constrain the field.  

The field needs to cut off the initial childhood phase and move forward transformed, into mature form. 

(If we agree that Amanita-obsession was the original phase of entheogen scholarship — we really need to interrogate, whether that was the case.)

I want to argue that “Allegro-Amanita” was never actually the be-all, end-all, star by which the nascent field of entheogen scholarship EVER steered by.  

I hope that Amanita was never actually the central point of reference for the entire field, in the past.

My first question in the field of Western entheogen scholarship, was in 1986, when I wondered which visionary plant the eaten scrolls of the book of Revelation refers to.

Robert Graves was too positive about Amanita, and he should’ve emphasized Psilocybe more.

Cyberdisciple compares on the Greek side, the extreme overemphasis on Kykeon. 

The academic fixation on Kykeon in Greek Mystery Religion, is like the unbalanced, oversimplifying fixation on Allegro-Amanita in Christianity.

At 46:15 in Transcendent Knowledge Podcast episode 22.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on6EFVLF-58&t=2775s

The tendency
(in artificially making Kykeon the center and guiding star for all of Mystery Religion & Greek mythology,
or making some imagined “Allegro-Amanita Theory” the Dead Center (forever) of the field of entheogen scholarship),
comes from intellectual laziness, oversimplification; narrowing, narrow minded, reductionistic; reducing down the entire field, into one preconceived central focus.

There is a noxious narrowing type of reductionism in the field of entheogen scholarship, like reducing all theology and religious-experiencing questions to only the one brain-dead question, “Does God exist, or not?” 

A guaranteed-unprofitable debate, is the only possible outcome.

The preconceived narrowing-assumption, the fixation on a single position, as if it’s the only notion or phrasing possible, reduces and hampers and hobbles the field; it’s reductionistic.

Just because Chemistry, by historical accident, initially defended Phlogiston, or Physics the Ether — 
does that mean that we must for all eternity, frame all of Chemistry in relation to Phlogiston; or for all eternity, frame all of Physics in relation to either being a “follower” of the Ether theory?

Is the only possible alternative to describe the alternative positions as a “lapsed follower who is now a deviant from his initial position”, that is guilty of “moving the goalpost”, but now “has been caught trying to move the goalpost”?

My 2003 Announcement of the Maximal Entheogen Theory of Religion Condoned the Amanita Obsession; I Failed to Quash It at that Time

I’m surprised at how little pushback I expressed against Amanita Mania within the field of Entheogen Scholarship.

Too much, 24:00
Transcendent Knowledge Podcast, Episode 22 ~~
critiques Allegro-Amanita Mania that tries to reduce the entire field of entheogen scholarship into the narrow prison of Amanita and turn everyone into a slave of Wasson & Allegro, falsely describing every entheogen scholar as a “follower of” , or a follower of who is a deviant from

(so there is no escape — EITHER YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF WASSSON-ALLEGRO, OR YOU ARE A LAPSED DEVIANT FOLLOWER OF WASSON ALLEGRO, OR YOU ARE “MOVING THE GOALPOST” BUT YOUR “REAL” POSITION IS AMANITA-ALLEGRO WORSHIP.

THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THIS TRAP PEOPLE HAVE CONSTRUCTED, both the Pop Sike world AND Letcher and Hatsis who push against it.

I have accused Letcher-Hatsis as being a brainwashed Allegro-Orbiter even while they sell books against Allegro-Amanita & “The Holy Mushroom theory” and the “secret Amanita cult” theory.

They’re just making the problem worse, further restricting and narrowing the options & horizons of thought.

The King of Plants for the Mono-Plant Fallacy is Amanita.

Hatsis “sells” Mandrake in Christianity, and wants to shut-out the conflicting interest, the competitor, which he sees as Amanita (& as an afterthought, as if synonymous, “mushrooms”).

I proved that Bennett’s book __ is multi-plant, but my point remains.

Chris Bennett “sells” Cannabis as his single-plant fallacy.

In overselling Cannabis in Christianity, at the expense of all mushroom species, Bennett further emphasizes Amanita: he’s currently focused on pushing against __ re: Amanita (in India religion).

THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THE ALL-SWALLOWING GREAT AMANITA THEORY, THE ALLEGRO-AMANITA THEORY-TRAP.

If you agree like Ruck that the universe resolves around the Omphalus navel of Allegro’s Amanita, you are guilty of pushing the baseless Holy Mushroom Theory, and the “secret Amanita cult” theory, and are a follower of Allegro-Amanita.

If you are like me and ignore Amanita, and in opposition to Allegro-Amanita, you instead “sell” Psilocybe, then you are (as the very confused writer John Lash mis-described) a “lapsed follower of Allegro who is (as the very confused writer Hatsis said) guilty of moving the goalpost“.

If you are like me and ignore Amanita, and in opposition to Allegro-Amanita, you instead “sell” Psilocybe in Christianity (& in Greek religion), then you are a “lapsed follower of Allegro who is guilty of moving the goalpost.”

If you do not disavow all mushrooms in Christianity history, that makes you some type of follower of Allegro-Amanita, and of the “secret Amanita cult” theory, and of Irvin’s The Holy Mushroom theory.

THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THE JAIL OF ALLEGRO-AMANITA I HAVE CONSTRUCTED FOR YOU.

DISAVOW ALL MUSHROOMS IN CHRISTIANITY OR ELSE YOU ARE A SLAVE OF WASSON-ALLEGRO. By the logic of Phase 1 of Western entheogen scholarship.

“Moving the goalpost” is Hatsis’ nonsensical accusation against Jerry Brown.

Did Brown in any sense move from an Amanita focus, to Psilocybe?

Ways I’ve Participated in Amanita Scholarship, in a Proper, Limited Way

I assert that:

  • My first research question in entheogen scholarship was Rev10 scrolls, which I was happy with Heinrich having solved/identified; I agree, Rev10 scrolls refers to Amanita.
  • The Holy Grail refers to the upturned Amanita.
  • Those are my best photographs, of a rain-pool pair of Holy Grail Amanitas.
  • It was particularly valuable that my photos of Holy Grail prove that the Dionysus Triumph leopard fountain is upturned Amanita.

Those are the ways I’ve been part of the problem, of being positive toward Amanita, instead of Psilocybe in Greek & Christian history.

Letcher-Hatsis Strangely Ignores the Amanita Obsession that also Occurred in Greek Religion Scholarship

tbd

John Lash’s Confused Narrative Attributes and Hands-Over the Entire Field of Western Entheogen Scholarship to Wasson-Allegro-Amanita

todo (copy from idea development page 6 or 7 – but it’s a TON! relevant?? gotta try it.):

quote the very confused writer John Lash (but Heinrich was very confused about Allegro, too!).

Lash’s narrative of the whole field trying to connect Amanita & entheogens to Old Testament & Christianity (he likes entheogens, he hates Abrahamic religion, so therefore there cannot be allowed entheogens in Christianity).

Damn, it’s hard to pick out — I developed WAY too much material from Lash & about Lash yesterday; the present page would become the John Lash Critique page & 3 other topics, if I copied it all:

See the following group of sections in Idea Development page 6: but particularly see the passage from a Lash article that characterizes the origin of the field of entheogen scholarship.

Lash’s Deleted Mushroom Articles Are Yet another Negative Example, of How Not to Frame & Approach the Field of “Western Mushroom Scholarship”

2008 Jan Irvin “The Holy Mushroom” Episode

John Lash Likes Entheogens, and Hates Abrahamic Religion, Therefore, Abrahamic Religion Cannot Have Included Entheogens

Lash Article: Wasson and Company: The Entheogenic Theory of Religion — this is the recounting I dislike, of the alleged origin-story of the field of Western entheogen scholarship. Copied to below in the present page.

Trying to Look at the Eadwine Psalter or “Paris Eadwine Psalter” – A Copy of Canterbury Psalter? Confusing & Unclear

Article: “Illuminated Heresy: More Images from the Paris Eadwine Psalter” (Lash 2007)

John Lash Site – Entheogens, Mushroom Psalters

Lash Article: Wasson and Company: The Entheogenic Theory of Religion

God I hate how these writers attribute everything, the entire field of mushroom scholarship, to Wasson & Allegro!

full article:
Wasson and Company: The Entheogenic Theory of Religion
https://web.archive.org/web/20110612022630/http://www.metahistory.org/psychonautics/Wasson/WassonAndCo.php —

“Wasson and Company is a section of Psychonautics dedicated to research and evaluation on the controversial topic of the entheogenic theory of religion: that is, the claim that the religious experience of the human species originated in altered states induced by the ingestion of sacred medicine plants such as the amanita muscaria mushroom or other psychoactive fungi.

[fake staged PR propaganda photo of Sabina, exposed by Irvin]

R. Gordon Wasson receiving psilocybin mushrooms
from the Mazatec curandera Maria Sabinas

Although there are important antecedents,
[Salverte 1846, Blavatsky 1877, Hall 1925, Graves 1956 http://www.egodeath.com/WassonEdenTree.htm#_Toc135889202
the argument for the entheogenic basis of religion can be said to have been formally launched by R. Gordon Wasson in his book, Soma: Divine Mushroom of Immortality. [an Amanita-obsession book, which mealy-mouth sort of vaguely insinuated that a much earlier proto-Eden tree’s snake was Amanita. WEAK AF! -mh

Initially, due in part to the influence of his Russian wife, Valentina, Wasson posited the existence of a prehistorical shamanic mushroom cult [GRRRR, THAT EVIL PHRASE “MUSHROOM CULT”! -MH] in the Ural mountains.

He sought to prove that the natural [<– GOOD!] sacrament and inebriant of this cult was the fly-agaric, amanita muscaria, which he identified with the Vedic inebriant, soma.

[look at this bullshit double-talk wording below! Is this bad enough to make it into the “Scholarly Quotes Hall of Shame”?

Lash wrote: “Variations of the Wasson thesis, including some considerable extrapolations and departures from it, have been advanced by [every entheogen scholar].”

Got that? “Variations of the Wasson thesis, including considerable departures from it, have been advanced by every entheogen scholar.”

“Variations of the Ptolemaic geocentric cosmology, including considerable departures from it, have been advanced by Copernicus.”

Thus, by definition, EVERY THEORY in the field of entheogen scholarship, is hereby framed as, “Variations of the Wasson thesis, including considerable departures from it.” Is not this reasoning worthy of the Scholarly Quotes Hall of Shame?

“variations *including* significant *departures*” <– Houston I think we have a problem here

Variations of the Wasson thesis, [STOP EQUATING THE FIELD WITH A PERSONALITY!-mh] including some considerable extrapolations and departures from it [<– DISAGREE W/ THIS FRAMING, THAT YOU ARE EITHER A SLAVE IMPRISONED WITHIN WASSON’S THESIS, OR ELSE YOU ARE AN ESCAPED SLAVE WHO IS THE PROPERTY OF WASSON’S THESIS — STOP PLACING WASSON-ALLEGRO-AMANITA AS THE REFERENCE POINT!], have been advanced by
John Allegro, <– AMANITA FIXATED
Ralph Metzner, < Amanita-centric? Odd, I never thought of Metzner as an entheogen scholar, double-check. oh sh*t – Ralph Metzner (May 18, 1936 – March 14, 2019) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Metzner – this new book by Metzner fails to corroborate that Metzner was an entheogen scholarship and advocated the Amanita theory in Western entheogen scholarship.

Searching for the Philosophers’ Stone: Encounters with Mystics, Scientists, and Healers
Ralph Metzner, 2019. http://amzn.com/1620557762
James Arthur, < Amanita-centric? pretty easy to check. darn, no Search Inside: http://amzn.com/1585091510. could check his Wayback site.
Terence McKenna, < Psilocybe! McFakea has nothing to do with the Wasson-Allegro-Amanita fixation. McFakea is guilty of “Do not look for mushrooms in Christianity, because it’s a given that the Big Bad Catholic Church suppressed mushrooms.”
Benny Shannon[sic], <– RIDICULOUS, how the F is Shanon in any way a
Jim de Korne,
and many others.
[JOHN RUSH]

[MY RESEARCH IN MUSHROOM SCHOLARSHIP IN NO WAY “COMES FROM” OR IS A “DEPARTURE FROM” WASSON. WASSON IS IRRELEVANT! I GOT THE MALFORMED ENTHEOGEN BRICK, BUILDING BLOCK TO REPAIR AND SUPPORT MY EGODEATH THEORY, FROM HEINRICH, RUCK, M HOFFMAN… NOT FROM ALLEGRO OR WASSON. STOP IT WITH THE PERSONALITY/FIELD CONFLATION.

STOP MAKING EVERYONE IN THE FIELD A SLAVE OF POPE WASSON & ALLEGRO! WASSSON & ALLEGRO ARE IRRELEVANT, NOT THE GUIDING STAR TO STEER THE UNIVERSE OF THIS TOPIC BY. -MH]

Most recently, John Rush. Failed God: Fractured Myth in a Fragile World.

The Entheogenic Catch-22

At the outset, let me emphasize that I differ from most of the other exponents of this theory in two key respects, each of which implies a kind of Catch-22 in the theory. To refresh your memory, Catch-22 is defined like this:

1. A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules or conditions.
2. The rules or conditions that create such a situation.
2. A situation or predicament characterized by absurdity or senselessness.
3. A contradictory or self-defeating course of action.

First objection: I draw a strong distinction between religious experience and religion as such, i.e., dogma, hierarchy, institution, ritual and regalia. I reject the claim (expounded by Benny Shannon) that authoritarian religious dogmas such as the Ten Commandments could have been derived from visionary states induced by sacred plants. Consistent with this stance, I reject the notion that

genuine visionary revelations given by plant-teachers became corrupted or co-opted into dogmatism and blind beliefs.
I insist that the corruption of paternal/authoritarian religion was present from its inception, a calculated and deliberate strategy for behavioral control.

[WHAT’S YOUR POINT? THAT HAS F*CK-ALL TO DO WITH ENTHEOGEN SCHOLARSHIP; To what extent mushrooms in Christianity? -MH]

I argue that religious belief-systems and associated rules that locate their origin and authority in a paternal off-planet deity cannot have been derived from visionary trance induced by sacred plants,

[who cares where worldly mundane rules came from. IRRELEVANT.]

for such plants are teachers given by nature to assist the human species in maintaining continuity with nature and, when required, healing its rupture from nature due to socialization of the species. The second part of this proposition states my assumption—pet theory, if you like—that

sacred planets teach and inspire our connection to the earth, so they cannot be cited as the source of off-planet dogmas or anti-natural belief-systems.

[YOU ARE CONFUSED AND IRRELEVANT. -MH]

Catch-22:
psychoactive agents designed and provided by nature to connect the human species to nature
cannot induce
visions that turn humankind against nature in favor of off-planet divinity
, as all the major religions do.

[YOU ARE GETTING LOST IN YOUR OWN THEOLOGICAL WRONG CONFUSED SPECULATIONS IRRELEVANT. STAY ON TOPIC. YOUR “OBJECTION” TO “THE THEORY”[SIC] IS IRRELEVANT GASEOUS VAPOUR. -MH]

[DUMB*SS LASH THINKS ALLEGRO BELIEVES IN MR. HISTORICAL JESUS!:]

John Lash wrote: “associations between psychoactive mushrooms and the historical Jesus, famously argued by John Allegro in The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross

[WHY SHOULD ANYONE WASTE TIME READING LASH WHEN HE CATESTROPHICALLY BOTCHES ALLEGRO’S AHISTORICITY POSITION?
Clark Heinrich’s book commits same major egregious error.

DUDE YOU DIDN’T EVEN READ ALLEGRO, DID YOU?! Manifestly not!

YET YOU PRESUME TO WRITE ABOUT YOUR PROJECTED FANTASY OF “WHAT ALLEGRO WROTE”, OR “THE ALLEGRO THEORY” — YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND SH*T ABOUT ALLEGRO THE ACTUAL MAN AND HIS ACTUAL REAL BOOK.]

Second objection: I discount the widely accepted
associations between psychoactive mushrooms and the historical Jesus, famously argued by John Allegro in The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.
In my view as a comparative mythologist, a great part of Allegro’s conflation of mushroom/penis/savior is unfounded, if not downright fatuous. His scholarship is excellent except when he gets lost in word games with terms in lost languages. In parallel with my objection in the first point, I reject the idea that true, pure, or genuine teachings of Jesus existed, having been derived from visionary trance induced by sacred mushrooms, [THAT’S NOT ALLEGRO’S POSITION, DUMB*SS!] but then were later repressed, distorted, coopted or otherwise corrupted by those who wished to profit from such visions while prohibiting them to the world at large.

[ALL OF THAT IS IRRELEVANT/PERIPHERAL TO THE FIELD, TO THE CENTRAL QUESTION: To what extent mushrooms in Christianity?]

Catch-22: The supposed original teachings of Jesus as leader of a Palestinian mushroom cult [NOT EVEN CLOSE TO ALLEGRO’S POSITION!] cannot have been corrupted into the message of the New Testament because
that message is proven by historical and textual analysis to be a systematic contrivance that does not require a hidden or esoteric message for its basis.
In short, the NT cannot be corrupted or encoded mushroom shamanism [MISSING PERIOD/TEXT]

[ANYONE TALKING OF “MUSHROOM SHAMANISM” IS WORKING IN SOME TOTALLY DIFFERENT FIELD THAN my field:
Psilocybe in Greek & Christian religion & mixed-wine banqueting. -mh]

[whatever you think the position is that you are objecting to — as confused as Letcher — is irrelevant to the real field of
mushroom scholarship about Psilocybe Mixed Wine.

Your position is irrelevant, because your imagined “position objected to” is garbled by you, and irrelevant. -mh]

Various points of difference and my reason for them can be found in the files linked from this page.
Principally, I object to attributing
paternal dogmatic religion such as the Mosaic cult of Yahweh
to
visionary trance induced by psychoactive plants

[at best, those are secondary, peripheral issues, not
the center of the field, of mushroom scholarship:
To what extent mushrooms in Christianity? -mh
]

because that argument lends a kind of legitimacy to belief-systems which are hostile to the Goddess and the earth. [you are twisting the field into political proxy, stop it -mh] I insist that
endorsing this argument turns out to be a good thing for religion, making it look good because
its basis is presumed to have been an authentic visionary revelation,
but a really bad thing for psychonautic visionary practice. I oppose
Shannon and others mainly on this point:
they give manistream[sic] religion a specious provenance and false legitimacy.

[Lash has bias against religion, which bias is driving his confusion regarding mushrooms in that religion.
LASH IS SO CONFUSED AND JUMBLES SO MANY DISTORTED VIEWS, HE CAN’T CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING TO THE proper field. -mh]

“Finally, I would point out that in my opinion it is no coincidence that
the argument for “Moses on marijuana or mushrooms” attained international press coverage at the very moment that governmental agencies around the world commenced a brutal crackdown on psychoactive plants, homeopathic medicine, and natural remedies. Tell me, if you can:

Why did media interest in Shannon’s thesis [why call the entire field (as you mis-see it) as “Shanon’s thesis”? -mhcome at a moment when the practice of psychoactive shamanism around the world came under extreme threat?

Dead Sea ET Cult

In Not in His Image, I argued that the Zaddikim of the Qumran settlement were a UFO cult [Lash is a confused literalist -mh], not a mushroom cult. In that same book I showed that
disciplined use of psychoactive planets in the Mysteries was guided by a master narrative, the myth of the fallen goddess, Sophia.
This myth includes an episode that explains the origin, nature, and effects of alien intrusion upon the human mind—the riddle of the Archons.
I contend that

Archontic suggestion or subliminal entrainment by that one identified species of predatory psychic entity can account for the salvationist belief-systems and paternal/authoritarian religion in human history.

Gnostics of the Pagan Mysteries were trained clairvoyants, clairaudients, and adepts of astral projection and lucid dreaming.
Like the new seers of Carlos Castaneda[FRAUD], they were able to explore the Nagual, navigate the supernatural layers of the universe, and investigate other dimensions and alien entities, including inorganic beings like the Archons. In short, they were past masters of the noetic sciences and experts in parapsychology.

The Gnostics attributed Judeo-Christian religion to mental aberrations due in part to the intrusion of extraterrestrial predators, the Archons.
[SEE my recent aside, mytheme: {giants abduct/lust for virgin daughters of men}; find “daughter” in present page, “idea development page 6”. Lash ought to write “extra-cosmic”, or “supra-lunar”, not “extra-terrestrial”. -mh]
Their characterization of the m.o. of these entities accords closely with the “spiritual control program” attributed by Jacques Vallee to ETs, whom he called “messengers of deception.” Not agent of evil, please note. The Apocryphon of John and other Gnostic texts describe the Archons in exactly the same manner.

Following the Gnostic view, I attribute Judeo-Christian religion (the Abrahamic creeds) to the influence of these “messengers of deception,” rather than to visions and revelations inspired by psychoactive plants, or a later distortion of such visions and revelations. On the contrary, such visionary experience, or trance learning, offers healing insight and corrective instruction against Archontic deviation. Such is my position on entheogenic revelation contrasted to mainstream religious doctrines, rites, and rules.

[summary: Lash likes entheogens, and hates religion, therefore, our religion (which is bad) cannot have included entheogens. -mh]

Fail-Safe

Noetic sciences in the Mysteries carried a fail-safe against the risk of tricking ourselves into delusional beliefs by the cleverness of our own minds. To safeguard their investigations, the telestai [means “completed”, “finished” initiates; finished the mental worldmodel transformation from possibilism to eternalism -mh](“those who are aimed,” [“aimed”? wtf does that mean? you are confused, as usual -mh] self-designation of initiates in the Mysteries) used sacred plant-teachers that enabled them to learn directly from Gaia, and correct errors in their mystical vision of the earth and humanity.

They would have argued that such plants cannot impart to our minds any teaching, belief, or dogma of a paternal, off-planet, authoritarian, anti-feminine bearing.

Sacred plants are emissaries of the living earth, the Aeon Sophia who morphed into the planet. In shamanic trance induced by psychoactive plants, the telestai detected what deviates us from rapport with nature.

I conclude that:

It is absurd to speculate that the plant-teachers provided by Gaia to keep us sane and align us to her purposes could have been the source of an off-planet religion, deviating us from our rapturous bond with the planet.

But hold on a second. The famous account by Michael Harner of his shamanic initiation with ayahuasca lends a further twist to this scenario.

Harner saw dragon-like entities in long-boats sailing through the sky.

In the altered state, he understood these entities to declare that they were the creators of humanity. When he recounted this incident to an old-timer who had monitored his ayahuasca session, the veternan shaman replied with a chuckle, “They always say that, but they are liars.”

[review the Mithraism hierarchy of revealed levels of control:

  1. God the Creator {the Lion outside the orbs} creates/controls the block universe.
  2. Block universe control worldline. ({snake carved of rock}, under the bull).
  3. The person’s worldline controls their control-thought inserter/injector ({Sol}).
  4. The control-thought inserter controls the control-thought receiver ({Luna}). The bull is the monolithic virtual autonomous egoic personal control agent, that uses possibilism-thinking. As distinct from the above, revealed control-hierarchy, which is eternalism-thinking.

-mh]

Note well: it was not the plant entity of ayahuasca itself who spoke to Harner claiming to be the off-planet or ET creator of the human race. That was the claim of skybound entities who appeared in the ayahuasca-incuded trance. This distinction supports my view that ancient seeers who investigated the cosmos in altered states induced by sacred plants were able to detect alien deception and intrusion. They had the power of true discernment, just like the old ayahuascero who wisened up Michael Harner.

Knowing how we can be deviated was one of the primary concerns of the Pagan initiates of the Mysteries. Like them, I have encountered Archon/ETs in lucid dreams and other altered states, with and without the assistance of plant teachers. But I have learned what to make of these encounters, and how to distinguish predatory entities from belevolent or neutral ones, through long and disciplined practice with sacred plants, the medicine of true vision.

Harner’s anecdote is extremely instructive. It shows how two aspects of Gnostic teaching dovetail into a single, supremely important insight:

Cognitive ecstasy induced by sacred plants exposes the alien factor in our own minds and the cosmos at large, providing a crucial discrimination:
anti-human and anti-nature beliefs attributed to an off-planet deity arise with that alien factor and not from the plant-teachers who alert us to its presence.

Gnostic teaching in this vein were tremendosly[sic] sophisticated.

[call John Lash garbled, but he’s no more garbled and irrelevant, putting forth confused, tangential, arbitrary argumentation, than Letcher, and maybe Hatsis.

WHY DID LASH’S NEW WEBSITE OMIT ALL HIS MUSHROOM COVERAGE? -mh]

Eadwine Psalter

The centerpiece of the study of entheogenic religion is the Paris Eadwine Psalter, a one-of-its-kind manuscript from the 13th century which I had the good fortune to discover in the National Library in Paris in September 2007, just prior to the publication of my book, Not in His Image.

This portal page is in development… (12 Nov 2009 Flanders)

end of Lash article

Entheos Issues 1-4, Mark Hoffman

Michael Hoffman, Dec. 24, 2020

Site Map

Contents:

Websites & Orgs for Mark Hoffman

http://wassonwest.com
WASSON WEST —
Home of the Wasson-Ruck Entheogenic Research Institute and Archives
http://wassonwest.com/our-team
Officers:
Dr. Carl A. P. Ruck
Mark Hoffman:
http://entheomedia.net
o Entheos: The Journal of Psychedelic Spirituality
Brian Muraresku
Advisory board: the whole crew

Books by Carl Ruck & Mark Hoffman

Entheogens, Myth, and Human Consciousness
Carl Ruck, Mark Hoffman
2013
http://amzn.com/1579511414
my review: https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/22/entheogens-myth-and-human-consciousness/

Mushrooms, Myth and Mithras: The Drug Cult that Civilized Europe
Carl Ruck, Mark Hoffman
July 26, 2011
http://amzn.com/0872864707

The Effluents of Deity: Alchemy and Psychoactive Sacraments in Medieval and Renaissance Art
Carl Ruck, Mark Hoffman
2012
http://amzn.com/161163041X

The Hidden World : Survival of Pagan Shamanic Themes in European Fairytales
Carl Ruck, Blaise Staples, José Celdrán, Mark Hoffman
2007
http://amzn.com/1594601445

Entheos: The Journal of Psychedelic Spirituality

Entheos Issue 1 (Summer 2001)

Photo: Michael Hoffman, 9:23 pm, Jan. 26, 2026

Summer 2001 = start of the Egodeath Yahoo Group

Issue One

Entheogens 
Full article online
Carl Ruck, Jeremey Bigwood, Blaise Staples, Jonathan Ott, Gordon Wasson

Deipnosophists in Danbury: Reflections on R. Gordon Wasson’s Table
Blaise D. Staples

Erinnerungen an Den Fliegenpilz (Memories of the Fly Mushroom)
Hoffman & Hoffman 
Full article

Conjuring Eden: Art and the Entheogenic Vision of Paradise
Hoffman, Ruck & Staples 
Online gallery of ancillary illustrations
38 pages, 33 illustrations, 47 ancillary online illustrations cued to text.

Impressions of A. muscaria
Photos by Heinrich & Hoffman

Old Gods in New Bottles: Alchemical Pharmacopoeia
Heinrich & Ruck
29 pages, 24 illustrations

In Conversation with Dr. Strassman
Thomas Lyttle

The Phoenix of Lactantius
Translation by Blaise D. Staples

Richard Schultes, Jungle-Drug explorer, Dies at 86
by Elaine Woo 
Full article

Entheos Issue 2: Entheogens in the Americas (Winter 2002)

Issue Two

A Mushroom Viajé in Huautla de Jiménez
Jim Ransom
Online only

The Miskwedo of the Anishinaubeg
Gordon Wasson 
Check back for: Keeywaydinoquay and her Miskwedo

Graeco-Roman Ruins in the New World
Blaise D. Staples 
Online gallery of ancillary illustrations

An Appreciation of Huichol Culture
Juan Negrín

The Man Who Ate Honey: Kiéri and the Calling of a Huichol Shaman
Jay C. Fikes and Catarino Carrillo 
Visit Catarino’s Page, and hear him sing

Huichol Wolf-Shamanism and A. Muscaria 
Download Full Article in MS Word
Mark Hoffman Check back for Red Wolf Power: A. Muscaria in the Americas

Daturas for the Virgin 
Download Full Article in Spanish in MS Word
José Celdrán and Carl Ruck 
Online gallery of ancillary illustrations

Peyote Religion: Opening Doors to the Creator’s Heart
Jay C. Fikes

Faith, Belief, and the Peyote Crisis
K. Trout & Mark Hoffman 
Visit The full article online!

Reuben Snake: Rising Up to Serve God
Reuben Snake and Jay C. Fikes

Reviews
Rick Strassman, Gywllm Llwydd, Thomas Lyttle and more!

Entheos Issue 3: Soma (Part 1 of 2) (Summer 2002)

Issue Three
Vol. 2, Issue 1

ok first of all its backwards, he’s forgetting what he saw and learned, and falling back into reincarnation into egoic deluded thinking.
second, there’s a mushroom in his straight leg, forget the white bull and red cape, your Amanita Mania.

A Letter of R.G. Wasson, Easter, 1965

The Mushroom Gods of Ancient India
Clark Heinrich

The Entheogenic Eucharist of Mithras
Mark Hoffman, Carl A.P. Ruck & Blaise Staples
Visit an online gallery of ancillary illustrations (coming soon! [ie >18 years])
Download Footnotes in MS Word

Sidebar:
Menhirs

Sidebar:
Etymological Considerations
H. W. Bailey

Sidebar:
Linguistic Interlude
R.G. Wasson

Coda:
Under the Same Cap: Attis

Freemasonry and the Survival of the Eucharistic Brotherhoods
Mark Hoffman, Carl A.P. Ruck
Full article online

Psychointegrators: The Physiological Effects of Entheogens
Michael Winkelman

Two Paintings by J.W.M Turner: An Entheobotanical Interpretation
Vincent Wattiaux
Download French version in MS Word

Addendum:
Turner’s Vision of Medea
Mark Hoffman and Carl A.P. Ruck

The Lote Tree of the Furthest Boundry: Psychoactive Sacraments in Islamic Gnosis
Alan Piper

In Memoriam: The Spirit of Bob Wallace
Rick Doblin, Maggie Hall, Tom Roberts
Download Full Article in MS Word

Entheos Issue 4: Soma (Part 2 of 2) (Winter 2009)

Issue Four

Entheos Vol. 2, Issue 2

Amrita: Buddhism’s Psychoactive Sacrament
Mike Crowley
(coming soon)

de Rebus Mithraicis
José Alfredo Gonzalés Celdrán
email us for email attachment

Soma’s Fairytale Ending in the West:
The Survival of Entheogenic Themes in European Folklore

Mark Hoffman, Carl A.P. Ruck
email us for email attachment

Hunting the Berserkers
Mark Hoffman & Carl A.P. Ruck
email us for email attachment

The Tree of Life and the Milk of the Goat Heidrun
Alan Piper
email us for email attachment

“Conjuring Eden” p. 13

Photo and annotations: Michael Hoffman

“Conjuring Eden” p. 14

Photo and annotations: Michael Hoffman

“Conjuring Eden” p. 15

Photo and annotations: Michael Hoffman

“Daturas for the Virgin” p. 49

Photo and annotations: Michael Hoffman

“Daturas for the Virgin” p. 56

Photo and annotations: Michael Hoffman

“Daturas for the Virgin” p. 57

Photo and annotations: Michael Hoffman

See Also

Purely to get back at con artist Gordon . . . .🔍🧐🤔🤬 Wasson:

Egodeath Yahoo Group – Digest 28: 2003-03-03

Site Map


Group: egodeath Message: 1371 From: wrmspirit Date: 03/03/2003
Subject: Re: Correct meaning of transcending rationality
Group: egodeath Message: 1372 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 04/03/2003
Subject: Asymmetry of Reformed theology
Group: egodeath Message: 1373 From: Jonathan Dunn Date: 04/03/2003
Subject: Re: Correct meaning of transcending rationality
Group: egodeath Message: 1374 From: wrmspirit Date: 05/03/2003
Subject: Re: Correct meaning of transcending rationality
Group: egodeath Message: 1375 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 06/03/2003
Subject: Against medium-level religion of meditation & psychological symboli
Group: egodeath Message: 1376 From: Jonathan Dunn Date: 06/03/2003
Subject: Re: Against medium-level religion of meditation & psychological sym
Group: egodeath Message: 1377 From: wrmspirit Date: 07/03/2003
Subject: integrity
Group: egodeath Message: 1378 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 07/03/2003
Subject: Motivations of anti-entheogen meditation proponents
Group: egodeath Message: 1379 From: wrmspirit Date: 08/03/2003
Subject: Re: Motivations of anti-entheogen meditation proponents
Group: egodeath Message: 1380 From: merker2002 Date: 08/03/2003
Subject: Re: Motivations of anti-entheogen meditation proponents
Group: egodeath Message: 1381 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Re: Against medium-level religion of meditation & psychological sym
Group: egodeath Message: 1382 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Unclear postings are out of scope and subject to moderation
Group: egodeath Message: 1383 From: wrmspirit Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Re: Unclear postings are out of scope and subject to moderation
Group: egodeath Message: 1384 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Scientific rational atheism is uncomprehending of myth
Group: egodeath Message: 1385 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Watts, not Wilber, focused on core transformation
Group: egodeath Message: 1386 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Explicit, intelligible, unambiguous communic. of truth
Group: egodeath Message: 1387 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Re: Scientific rational atheism is uncomprehending of myth
Group: egodeath Message: 1388 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: T’t rational justification of using the irrational ego
Group: egodeath Message: 1389 From: oraganon Date: 11/03/2003
Subject: De Ventra
Group: egodeath Message: 1390 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Hello……
Group: egodeath Message: 1391 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 1392 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 1393 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 1394 From: wrmspirit Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: words
Group: egodeath Message: 1395 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Postings are off-topic if not tied-in to main topics
Group: egodeath Message: 1396 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Must theorize far more forcefully to disrupt the new status quo
Group: egodeath Message: 1397 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Definition of ‘theory’
Group: egodeath Message: 1398 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 1399 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Must theorize far more forcefully to disrupt the new status quo
Group: egodeath Message: 1400 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
Group: egodeath Message: 1401 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 1402 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Must theorize far more forcefully to disrupt the new status quo
Group: egodeath Message: 1404 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Buddhist Three Proofs
Group: egodeath Message: 1405 From: Kevin Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: New Member
Group: egodeath Message: 1406 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Psychosis, religious experiencing, and entheogens
Group: egodeath Message: 1407 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
Group: egodeath Message: 1408 From: Bob Prostovich Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Psychosis, religious experiencing, and entheogens
Group: egodeath Message: 1409 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Psychosis, religious experiencing, and entheogens
Group: egodeath Message: 1410 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
Group: egodeath Message: 1411 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: egodeath Message: 1412 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
Group: egodeath Message: 1413 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: 60s lame fallout: evidence against entheogen potential?
Group: egodeath Message: 1414 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Simplicity of enlight. is bad news for egoic hopes
Group: egodeath Message: 1415 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Pinchbeck’s book Breaking Open the Head
Group: egodeath Message: 1416 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Recommended books
Group: egodeath Message: 1417 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Problem with revising thinking to attain perfect rationality
Group: egodeath Message: 1418 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 1419 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Re: 60s lame fallout: evidence against entheogen potential?
Group: egodeath Message: 1421 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 16/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Group: egodeath Message: 1422 From: Bob Prostovich Date: 16/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion



Group: egodeath Message: 1371 From: wrmspirit Date: 03/03/2003
Subject: Re: Correct meaning of transcending rationality
In a message dated 3/3/2003 8:21:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mhoffman@… writes:


> that knows that for *practical* reasons the mind must continue to make the
> false and illogical egoic assumptions, now known to be a practically
> required
> *convention*. Man cannot practically live by rationality alone.
>

When practical is seen as being false, it is from the mind that is not
allowed to rest within the motion of transition…..When true to thyself what
else is there…….

Norma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 1372 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 04/03/2003
Subject: Asymmetry of Reformed theology
Though Reformed theologians have some variety of nuanced positions, the
general spirit and mode of thinking is determinedly asymmetrical and
characterized by the following.


God controls everything, and everything is predestined. Nevertheless, the
following must be admitted, despite the mystery of apparent inconsistency to
our fallen minds.

If you are damned, it’s entirely your own fault, and not God’s fault at all
(though God controls everything). This is hard to understand, because sin is
darkness and confusion.
If you are saved, it’s entirely God’s doing, and not to your credit at all.
This is easy to understand, because goodness makes sense, like light and
clarity.


We all deserve to be damned as rebels against God – that’s God’s justice.
Some of us are saved by God – that’s God’s mercy.

Therefore God is just and blameless and merciful in causing some to be saved
while causing, or as they say “letting”, others be damned. Since *everyone*
deserves to be damned, and no one *deserves* by their own actions to be saved,
we must marvel at God’s generosity in saving anyone at all instead of causing
(or “letting”) the whole lot of us to be damned. This dizzying logic causes
seizure in tent revival meetings under the trees.


In some ways, these are clever riddles that can be solved by sophisticated
mystic reading. First of all, cast off literalist networks of interpretation
regarding what it means to be damned or saved, and solve it as a clever
riddle, finding the right alternative network of interpretation.

Is some ways, these are perverse devilish inconsistencies that serve to prop
up the freewill assumption even while denying that assumption. This suggests
that no-free-will may be a heresy in the orthodox view.

In some ways, these are consistent inconsistencies, like the following I
invented:

Sinners have free will. Saints don’t have free will.
Demons have free will. Angels don’t.

The Reformed theologians waffle to no end about whether we have free will, but
the point they are afraid to address is whether the idea of free will is even
logically possible at all, for any creature. Augustine seems to say that we
do have free will, but it’s broken and corrupt, preventing us from choosing
and accepting Christ’s offer of free salvation. Each theological has a slight
variation, but few of them deny the possibility of free will in principle.

Those few who flat-out deny freewill as a coherent possibility still insist on
blending the no-free-will principle with egoic moralism, producing a monstrous
confused system.

I actually hold that:
The ‘sinner’ is the mind who assumes that freewill is a coherent notion and
assumes that that mind has free will.
The ‘saint’ is the mind which assumes that freewill is an incoherent notion,
and assumes that that mind doesn’t have free will.

To be ‘saved’ is to deeply disown and reject the freewill assumption, though
doing so causes ego-death seizure and a sacrificial willing of the loss of
control. To will the sacrificial, transgressive rejection of egoic
self-control is to will as Christ did, “Not my will but your will be done.”
This amounts to an act of willing that is considered to be one’s own act that
is not considered as originating from oneself, but is injected into the mind
by the ground of being. It’s hard but not impossible to consistently discuss
this sacrificial, transcendent turning of the will against itself — the
important point is what the mind considers to be the *source* of the mind’s
will.

Reformed theology is centered on the topic of free will. It’s surprising that
there’s not more dialog between Reformed theologians and philosophers of free
will vs. determinism — two very different modes of approaching the issues.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1373 From: Jonathan Dunn Date: 04/03/2003
Subject: Re: Correct meaning of transcending rationality
and moreover any particular instance of a mistaken thought is
predetermined anyway 🙂


=====

Jonathan Dunn
mailto:jon@…
http://ephemeral.info


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center – forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: egodeath Message: 1374 From: wrmspirit Date: 05/03/2003
Subject: Re: Correct meaning of transcending rationality
The language center resides within a very small portion of the brain, where
it receives imput, interprets, translates, and then directs all output,
dependent upon the development of this center early on.

The language center is not in any way, shape, or form, capable of emulating
every position of life through word symbols for what is without symbols,
what is without definition, cannot be formed by symbols and definitions.

It is the greatest query of transition for the thinker, which literally blows
the steam out of any mind, who believes it is a separate and superior
intelligence within a Self-sustained system, and thank goodness to the grace
of life for this.



Norma
Group: egodeath Message: 1375 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 06/03/2003
Subject: Against medium-level religion of meditation & psychological symboli
There are degrees of genuineness in religion. The simple idea of low and high
religion can be usefully extended to contrasting low, medium, and high
religion. Literalist, orthodox Islam, Christianity, or Judaism are the
epitome of low religion. Quasi-official mystic Islam (Sufism), Christian
mysticism, Kabbalah, and mainstream American Buddhist meditation are
definitive of medium-level religion. The Buddhism that packs the magazine
stands is medium-level religion.

High religion is entheogenic religion and is essentially entheogenic even if a
small percentage of people have the rare ability and aptitude to cast away the
training wheels of entheogens and think themselves into an intense altered
state. More typically, meditation is a method of augmenting entheogens.
Medium-level religion is a pale shadow of high religion, and low religion an
even paler shadow.

Low religion is a pale shadow of high religion, and discarding the
supernaturalist literalism of low religion for a slight increase to medium
psychologized religion is only a slight correction of the pale shadow. Real,
definitive, original religion isn’t about supernatural or psychological
religion as in ordinary-state Jungian psychology; it’s about the specific
archetypal experiences of the intense altered state.

The worst problem and greatest enemy now of real religion isn’t
supernaturalism, it’s psychologized ordinary-state religion and mainstream
meditation practices. We must firmly reject identifying real, original
religion with Jungian archetypal psychologism and with meditation that isn’t
used as an augmentation for entheogen experiences.

There is a huge difference between treating non-augmented meditation as an
advanced alternative to the real, entheogenic religious trigger, and the
current dominant notion of treating non-augmented meditation as the real thing
while entheogens are held to be a nearly-as-good simulation or way of
augmenting meditation.

Entheogens must be firmly held as original and central, while meditation can
only be correctly conceived as a later, derivative, alternative variant of the
original, entheogenic trigger of the mystic altered state.

Today’s mainstream meditation magazines are wrong. They are good in
acknowledging or grudgingly admitting that entheogens were by far the main
factor in awakening the Baby Boomer generation to meditation and Buddhism, and
they are good when they occasionally mention as an aside, in a footnote, that
entheogens aren’t absent from pre-American Buddhism. What really sucks hard
about these dominant magazines is their distortion of priorities of emphasis.

They put meditation on a pedestal as original, core, real, essential religion,
often including archetypal symbolism applied to the mundane or slightly
altered state of consciousness, while denigrating entheogens and relegating
them to a controversial adjunct. When you put the cart before the horse, you
don’t understand the main thing about the cart and horse. Medium-level
religion is better than low-level religion, but it’s a threat to real religion
because it threatens to hide the existence of an even higher religion.

Just because medium-level religion is higher than low-level religion doesn’t
mean that medium-level religion is the high-level religion; it’s not.
Medium-level religion is just medium-level religion, even if some of its
elements can appear in high-level religion, such as the rarely effective
technique of meditation without entheogens, and psychological allegory per
Jung, Campbell, and the pre-1960s Alan Watts.

Most non-entheogenic meditation and most psychological allegorized religion
suffers from Boomeritis, a useful idea described by Ken Wilber — it claims to
be high religion, when it’s not, and it claims to be intense and effective and
transformative, when it’s not. It’s one degree of improvement claiming to be
full improvement, denying that there is yet another, higher baptism to be had.

This debate between the existence of two versus three levels of religion is
found clearly in the Christian tradition as a major debate in theology and
heresy. It’s a heresy to hold that there are two baptisms and three levels of
religious status: those who are not catechized and water-baptized are the
lowest, those who are superficially catechized and water-baptized are
medium-level Christians, and those who are also baptized by the fire of the
Holy Spirit, with ideally the sacrament of apolytrosis, are high-level
Christians.

Charismatics, Pentecostals, or per the book title “Gnostic Protestants”, hold
that there are two baptisms (lower and higher) and two levels of Christians,
forming three levels of religion — however, mainstream Charismatics appear to
be unaware of entheogens.

From the Christian orthodox point of view, there are two degrees of heresy:
claiming like the mainstream mystics that Christianity is essentially about
contemplation and psychological archetypes (medium-level religion), and worse,
claiming that Christianity is essentially about entheogenic intense mystic
experiencing, reflected by mystic metaphor. Look with dismay upon
medium-level religion that dominates the newsstand, with its deep fallacy of
labelling mere medium-level religion as high-level religion.

A sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit and genuine, authentic high-level
religion is an entheogenic plant — any entheogenic plant. Any one magical
plant species is a symbol for entheogenic plants in general, so clues
indicating Amanita mushroom don’t indicate the predominant use of Amanita, but
rather, the inspiring presence of the use of various entheogens, such as the
deliriants like Datura. An Amanita halo or archangel Gabriel’s lily indicates
the complete open pharmacotheon of magical plants — one meaning of the image
of the vast assembly of angels.

Psychological meditation religion is lukewarm religion — it’s a better form
of religion, but only better than the worst form of religion. Medium-level
religion may not support wars, but neither does it provide full religious
experiencing or enlightenment. Boomeritis isn’t a matter of labelling low
religion as high religion, but of labeling medium religion as high religion.

In Wilber’s theory of transpersonal developmental psychology, a main idea is
that the mind must in some way reject its existing dominant level of
development in order to move beyond it to a higher level that in some way
incorporates the previous level. So must we reject or negate today’s
predominant medium-level religion in favor of high-level religion.

Today’s magazine stand shows the great extent to which medium-level religion
has recently become predominant over low-level religion: there are ten
Buddhism magazines, and only two Christian magazines, one of those being a
humor magazine (The Door) that serves to discredit low, mundane Christianity
and the other a skeptical archaeology magazine (Biblical Archaeology Review)
that serves to disprove low, literalist Christianity — sometimes near its
sister magazine Bible Review, which serves to use literary study to disprove
literalist Christianity.

It has become rare to find believing (low) Christian magazines such as
Christianity Today in mainstream urban bookstores or newsstands. The
available religion magazines at the newsstand clearly indicate the direction
the mainstream has recently been moving: away from believing (low)
Christianity, through skeptical disproof of low Christianity, to psychological
mythic Christianity and mainstream meditation-oriented Buddhism.

In the popular mind, Christianity is identified with low religion, while
Buddhism is identified with better religion or high religion. For all
practical purposes, the magazines that should be identified with high religion
are found in the psychoactive drug magazine section: Heads, Trip, MAPS,
Cannabis Culture, and High Times. Even better and closer to original, high
religion would be the journals Entheos and Eleusis, which emphasize not
psychedelics, but entheogens in religion.

So congratulate today’s Buddhist magazines on fully attaining the medium level
of religion, but refute them if they make the Boomeritis move of labelling
themselves as high religion and thus obscuring the existence of actual high
religion. High religion can very well be identified as entheogenic religion,
although the goal is not the use of entheogens, but rather, integrating the
state and insights and fullness that are most effectively and reliably and
originally triggered by entheogens.

A rare few may be able to attain this state without entheogens, but there is
good, sound reason to name the high mystic state the entheogenic state. High
religion is essentially entheogenic religion, even if a few have the rare
aptitude of simulating the authentic entheogen state without entheogens.

— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience

Heads http://www.headsmagazine.com
Trip http://www.tripzine.com
MAPS http://www.maps.org
Cannabis Culture http://www.cannabisculture.com
High Times http://www.hightimes.com
Eleusis http://www.eleusis.ws/en
Entheos http://www.entheomedia.com
Biblical Archaeology Review, and Bible Review http://www.bib-arch.org
The Door http://www.thedoormagazine.com
Group: egodeath Message: 1376 From: Jonathan Dunn Date: 06/03/2003
Subject: Re: Against medium-level religion of meditation & psychological sym
Michael,

Do you see entheogens in the yogic / vedantic / shaivite literature?
It seems to me that a survey of the world’s spiritual literature
shows that the above place the heaviest enphasis upon the possibility
& importance of attaining altered states. And yet it would appear
the entheogens are not emphasized in this material.

Thank you.
– jon
Group: egodeath Message: 1377 From: wrmspirit Date: 07/03/2003
Subject: integrity
Let it be clear that anything that is helpful, entheogenic and not, for human
lives to remember the true essence of being, reflected through words and
actions that are not attached to the author, can never be other than
truthful.

The manufacturing of experience labeled as religious, yields religious
experience, dependent upon an interpretor who describes the experience as
religious, predicated upon words already written whether the message is
weaved by metaphor or not.

It’s a safe that has been cracked, with some writings on papers decoded, and
some dates uncovered as to the origin of religion which yield to the eyes
that it is made out of time……It remains a paradigm staying within a
paradigm but labeled as new and improved by its higher status of analysis.
All things man-ufactured are man-made.

What does not read, write, and interpret, what does not describe,
religious-cize, and capitalize,……..is the core, the center of being, the
innocence, simplicity, and integrity of life,… the bareness of life seen
only through naked eyes which wear no costumes.

Norma
Group: egodeath Message: 1378 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 07/03/2003
Subject: Motivations of anti-entheogen meditation proponents
From what I’ve read, Salvia is so perfect, so efffective, like taking the peak
window from a twelve hour altered state session, that it gives insights that
take years to play out. Melding into frozen spacetime, uniting with the
divine figure of your choice, returning to the hub: primary religious
experiencing on tap.

I haven’t read much on Salvia and my thinking lately tends to be universalist
and unconcerned about particular species; what is most important is entheogens
in general and the mystic altered state of loose cognitive binding. Mixed
wine contained a diverse assortment of active plants, used together as an
entheogen. The sadly missed young researcher who drowned on Ketamine wrote a
book about combinations of psychoactives.

Cannabis seems to be a good general multiplier of other plant effects, and
opium is a great stabilizer for nausea often caused by magical plants.
Exhaling salvia, you can see the breath of God, the holy ghost, turning the
zodiac.


I’ve set the record straight on the status-relation between meditation and
entheogens, clearing the way to put entheogens on the pedestal of religion
where they belong, as surely as the lifting of the Eucharist during the Mass.
There remains a frustrating seeming lack of explicit literary evidence to
support my principle of the constant rate of entheogen usage across eras and
locales.

Studying the suppression of drug references in 1960s-70s Rock may provide a
good model to explain why there is so little explicit and undeniable evidence
for the central role of entheogens in religions. If everyone who matters
knows of a psychoactive lotus plant, then every icon with a lotus counts as an
explicit declaration that Hinduism is supported by, and rests on, an
entheogenic foundation.

Similarly, if the religionists who matter recognize some Amanita halos, then
to them, who have eyes to see, it is plain as day that what makes saints holy
is entheogens — the message is obscured to those outside, and plain as day to
those within. I should write in more detail the many parallels between
entheogen encoding in Rock and in religion — the same dynamics and strategies
are used in both, resulting in the same permanent controversy between the
entheogen-literate and the entheogen-illiterate.

People are almost cleanly divided regarding recognizing entheogen references,
in either field. This clean division indicates the presence of a classic
paradigm shift or pattern-locking two-state system. Either religion is
against entheogens and has nothing to do with that, or it’s caused by, and
rests on a foundation of, entheogens and has everything to do with that.
Either entheogen references are rare and isolated in Rock, or they are just
about everywhere, constituting the house religion.

Ozzy Osbourne wrote a song about this, rejecting conventional prohibitionist
religion in favor of acid rock, “’cause rock and roll is my religion and my
love – may think it’s strange – you can’t kill rock and rock, I’m here to
stay”. Ego death through LSD with THC was literally the house religion of
Rock, from 1965 to 1990, and much of the best rock is spiritual. But popular
entheogen religion would be better if it were more well-informed about
religion, philosophy, and psychology.

Suppression has caused the best thinkers to avoid publishing, so that only the
uneducated entheogenists are available as popular representatives of the mind
of the entheogenic community. Political suppression distorts and hides the
fact that entheogens are associated with the more intelligent people, and it
suppresses the potential of the entheogenic Rock religion to be integrated
intelligently with world religions.

Scholarship about the entheogenic nature and origin of religion is stifled and
suppressed by the phony, profit-driven enterprise of prohibition. The result
is inferior and deeply hidden entheogenic encoding, like the bulk of bad,
ridiculous alchemy. Profit-driven suppression of genuine entheogenic religion
ends up producing what we have ended up with: junk Rock, and junk religion,
worthless and uninspired, with the distinct presence of inspiration buried
under layers of dissimulation.

In the slightly more open drug climate of the mid-1970s, symbolically encoded
acid allusions were communicated to a certain degree. But those same lyrics
and allusions, heard in the deeply oppressive climate of the turn of the
millennium, almost completely fail to communicate the mystic-state allusions.
Only in such a foolish dark-ages climate could anyone like me have discovered,
or rather rediscovered, what was barely hidden in its own day.


Wilber lately holds that there are 2000 variables constituting one’s
psychospiritual development. His early works tended to paint a simple picture
of collective progress in psychospiritual development; lately he is almost
qualifying that.

I’m certain that the Hellenists were far superior to his low assessment of
their “mere mythic level of development”, and I don’t care what everyone says
in these anti-Christian times, I know what I see when I look at the
iconography and writings of the Middle Ages: they speak from within the
mystic’s garden of sacred plants, as surely as the sophisticated iconographic
language of the Central American Catholic artists. And I’d like to know what
percentage of Revivalist Christians have used sacred plants.

Again, we can understand how the entheogenic nature of Christianity was
suppressed in the past by matching it to recent history, looking at how
entheogenic Christianity was suppressed in the aftermath of the 1960s.

By a sheer miraculously improbable coincidence, at the same time as Boomers
dropped acid and smoked pot and turned on to Buddhism, giving the middle
finger to their parents’ version of Christianity, so too did many of the
Boomers become Jesus Freaks, now euphemized as Jesus People, providing the old
story, “I used to do drugs all the time, but now I get high on Jesus”, which
is the same as the post-acid, American Buddhist story.

It must be certain that a fair number of Christian Rock musicians have had
Christian experiences of the Holy Spirit through LSD — but we don’t hear
about that. Why not? The socio-political suppression of psychoactive drug
use doesn’t stop people from using entheogens, but it does stop them from
communicating their use of entheogens. Similarly, earlier Christians had
compelling reasons to use entheogens, but they have at the same time had
compelling reasons not to communicate that unambiguously.

As we have been forced to do with acid allusions in Rock, we may have to learn
to accept that mainstream religion inherently prevents explicit, certain, and
unambiguous references to sacred psychoactive plants.

We may have to accept in religion, as in acid allusions in Rock and in
alchemy, that the study is inherently encoded, and never explicit, so that the
only way we can receive communication from those who went before is by
learning their latin, their specialize encoded language, because they were
always prevented from speaking in the vernacular of plain English.

It is a shame that explicit mentions of entheogenic species probably aren’t
forthcoming in religion, but this doesn’t stop scholars from moving forward
with learning this latin, learning the symbolic encoding system of allusions
to magical, divine plants. One Jewish legend holds that the grape vine used
to produce something like 113 psychoactive products, but now it only produces
one.


Today’s meditation religion is bullshit substitution for real, intense,
direct, simple, no-nonsense intense religious experiencing and magazines like
New Age know it; they are not transformative and do not shed insight on
religious myth. The most impoverished form of religion, by some measure, is
middle-level religion — they have removed the supernatural, while replacing
it with oversold psychologism that cannot possibly deliver on its promise.

An outdated theory of religious myth is that it is primitive explanation of
natural mundane phenomena. Actually, that description fits conventional
archetypal psychology well (Jung/Campbell & pre-psychedelic Watts): Jungian
psychology is a primitive, uninformed attempt to explain religious myth,
without recognizing that the myth originates from intense entheogenic mystic
experiencing. Middle-level, Jungian mythic-psychology is unsatisfying except
when compared to Freud’s low psychology.

Jungian psychology is only halfway toward the Integral pinnacle. Just as the
ordinary baptized Christian has only experienced John the Baptist’s
water-baptism and has yet to experience fire baptism by the Holy Spirit — the
baptism in Jesus’ name — so is Jungian psychology only halfway toward the
full realization of psychology. Here my thinking clashes with Ken Wilber’s
way of thinking, residing in a different framework.

It is hard work defining what’s wrong or distorted in Wilber’s framework.
*Because* Wilber is such a good theorist, it becomes all the more profitable
to leverage him by looking for systemic flaws, distortions, or limitations.
How must his theory be adjusted? Does it err in making high human development
overcomplicated and irrelevant, etherial and disconnected from practical
reality? Wilber’s theory is wandering lost, without a clear enough sense of
what matters more and less.

My style of theorizing has always put different principles first. Perhaps his
theory is simple and focused in its own way, and mine is in a different way.
It is most puzzling: how can his theory be so damn good, yet totally miss the
boat on my dirt-simple, rational entheogenic model of ego death? I want to
change my .sig to contain the whole of my theory in two sentences, such a
simple core that it breaks Wilber’s system. What would Wilber not agree with?


Nutshell Summary of the Simple Theory of Ego Death & Religion

Religion is originally and essentially an expression of the entheogenically
triggered intense mystic altered state, in which the ultimate insight is
rationally, simply, and coherently realized, causing a network-shift of
meanings and flipping the mental worldmodel from the egoic version to the
transcendent version. The ultimate insight is no-free-will, realized in
conjunction with no-separate-self.

The ego is largely illusory, and the ego is the imagined controller agent, so
self-control is largely illusory and must be deeply reconceived to fit with
the worldmodel of a frozen timeless block universe in which the near future,
like all spacetime, already timelessly exists. This model is no more certain
than anything, but is elegantly coherent and its coherence is comprehended and
experienced during the mystic state of loose cognitive-association binding.

This conception of religion is the essence of religion and enlightenment, and
is that which all religion-myth and archetypal psychology ultimately points
to.


Wilber has written only a few words about free will and entheogens. His
worldview of what’s most important is quite different than the view expressed
above. An increasingly common move of the meditation promoters is to admit
that entheogens thoroughly surpass meditation in effectiveness, no contest,
but then to play a game of switching and redefining what meditation is for.
Now they say that meditation isn’t importantly associated with tangible
altered states — this is a defensive move into fog.

Now they say that meditation is for mindfulness and lovingkindness that causes
an enduring state of ethical good behavior. That’s an invented false system
of priorities, saving the patient’s body by chopping off his head. Nothing is
more New Age, in the worst sense, than inventing a religion of worshipping
nebulous haze and fog, escaping into empty, meaningless dangling pointers.

This is the same choice as Quantum theory offers: either physics can’t be
comprehended and visualized, and it’s all essentially abstract; or, it can be
explained rationally and visualized, through hidden variables and nonlocality.

There are two choices we have now: either religious practice of
contemplation/meditation is about feelgood haze and fog and dangling pointers
such as ‘mindfulness’ and ‘lovingkindness’ leading to a “spiritual
transformation of character” that amounts to ongoing ethical good behavior; or
it is about intense mystic altered-state experiences, such as entheogens
definitively trigger, that causes a specific change from one specific mental
worldmodel to another specific worldmodel of self, space, time, and control.

The American Buddhist magazines are fully committed now to promoting the
conception of Buddhist meditation as being not a method of triggering the
intense mystic altered-state experience, but rather, about lasting mindfulness
and lovingkindness. If those terms mean anything, they should be seen as
incidental to religious insight and religious experiencing proper. Such
Buddhism commits the offense of proferring incidental and hypothetical
side-effects of meditation as though they were the main purpose.

As entheogens are understood and respected increasingly, such an escapist New
Age Buddhism will be forced to retreat even more and concede additional
territory to entheogens, just as it has already conceded the intense mystic
altered state to entheogens. Everything significant that non-entheogenic,
mainstream Buddhist meditation can achieve, entheogens can trigger much more
effectively and reliably, no contest.

Is realizing no-separate-self the goal? Entheogens work extremely well for
realizing no-separate-self, while non-augmented meditation barely works at
all. More data will only confirm this more. So then entheogen-disparaging
Buddhism may say, “Well, then, the main goal of Buddhism was never really to
realize no-separate-self; the truly important thing is attaining the ongoing
state of mindfulness and lovingkindness and ongoing good ethical conduct.”

That is already happening; there is less and less emphasis on rational
realization of metaphysical principles, and ever louder emphasis on the hazy
fog of New Age lovingkindness, emptied of rational content as well as emptied
of intense religious experiencing.

Then Buddhism may redefine the terms, taking the position that entheogenic ego
death is nothing at all like meditation-derived ego death, and that the
stopping or speeding of thoughts in entheogenic experiencing is unrelated to
the much more desirable quietness and mindfulness of pure and natural
meditation.

The defenses against the manifest superiority of entheogens over non-augmented
meditation have become this absurd, twisting and turning and redefining the
goals and the terms, doing anything at all to erect a paradigm that shuts out
the obvious uncontested superiority of entheogens by all measures.

If entheogens win the religion game by all measures, which they
incontrovertibly do, then such New Age Buddhists make the ultimate lame
defensive move that is every bit as bad as literalist Christianity, of
redefining the goal of religion and redefining the measures of effective
religion. What will they do when entheogens prove vastly superior at
producing ‘lovingkindness’ and ‘mindfulness’ and ongoing good ethical conduct?

It will become embarrassingly clear, as clear as the movie Traffic which
exposed the groteque futility and misguidedness of prohibition, that such New
Age Buddhism is simply defending an a-priori, jealous bias against entheogens
and is, like official Christianity, even willing to abandon religious
experiencing and religious insight if those must be sacrificed to save face in
their commitment to denying the perfect efficacy of entheogens and the
historical predominance of influence and inspiration of entheogens in
religion.

It’s like it would kill such anti-entheogenic Buddhists to admit that there is
a lightning path to religion and it is, by any reasonable measure, the best
path we have ever and always had. At that point, we leave the explicit points
of debate and begin, like Richard Double’s study of the motivations behind the
free will defenders, or like Dan Russell’s book Drug War, inquiring what the
real, underlying commitments are that lie behind the intellectual arguments
being put forth.

Who benefits, in what ways, and how much, by defending the
entheogen-disparaging view of religious meditation? McKenna proposes that
conventional religion serves as an ego defense against the threat posed by
real religious experiencing. In that case, the conventional religion of
anti-entheogenic meditation defenders is the religion of demons of darkness;
that kind of Buddhism has become regressiveness disguided as progressiveness,
wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Substitute, ersatz religion, a false gospel, milk religion falsely marketed as
meat religion. I have no reason to loathe literalist Christianity — it’s
dead as a serious contender. Not even believing Christians really believe in
such Christianity any more — that was only a temporary, modern-era distorted
conception of Christianity, anyway. All eras except the modern probably took
Christianity to be almost entirely symbolic, reflecting entheogenic
psychological archetypal experiences.

More and more, it appears that the darkest of the dark ages, in the field of
religion, was the modern — the only era to wholly lose any grasp of the
essence of religious-myth, in conjunction with losing the connection between
entheogens and religion. Modern Christianity, which is to say literalist
Christianity, had its short time but the reigning religion of the parents to
be thrown off now is anti-entheogenic American Buddhism, which is debated in
the good but too-frustrating-to-read book Zig Zag Zen.

I haven’t seen such a perversely and determinedly warped and biased distortion
of entheogens since the Catholic theologian Zaehner. One reason I dislike
electing a small handful of scholars as representing the scholarly
investigation of entheogens is that they become targets for such distorted
rebuttals and dismissals.

Huxley and Grof and the Good Friday Experiment are treated by anti-entheogen
religionists (fearful propagandist apologists who know well how baseless their
position is) as though they are the perfect and final word on what entheogens
are all about, as though we’ve given the scholars a chance to investigate and
write about entheogens when we in fact have not.

This brings us back to the distortions caused by the politics of suppression
of entheogens. If entheogens were given a fair chance to compete against
non-entheogenic religion, everyone knows as a public secret that entheogens
would totally blow away substitute religion, on all counts, by far. Everyone
knows this, and knows like the drug war, that any tiny loss of the battle
against entheogens would be total, cataclysmic defeat.

Ego, the defender of anti-entheogenic religion, knows full well what a futile
and unwinnable battle he faces. The religion of the lie knows it rests on a
foundation of sand and has no hope against the entheogenic rock in any fair
contest. Anti-entheogen religion, like prohibition, can only be defended
through unfair methods of lies, distortion, inconsistency, and incoherence.

In a fair debate, which is impossible in this political climate, with
competent defenders, entheogenic religionists would certainly win the debate
against the anti-entheogen meditation promoters, and everyone knows it, as
surely as the prohibitionists refuse to engage in refereed intellectual debate
with reformers.

That’s why the rebuttals of Huxley and the Good Friday Experiment all reek of
propaganda, deliberate and ill-willed distortion, and prior commitments and
investments rather than following Reason and evidence where it leads.

The anti-entheogen meditation proponents have no real case and are playing a
purely defensive game to save their public prestige and avoid admitting that
their religious practice is nothing of substance, not transformative but just
a lifestyle accessory and mundane coping mechanism, certainly not a
worldview-inverting, ego-threatening Religion that deserves its capital R.

Substitute religion, called spirituality, is the Church of Ego, and I would
not call it “narcissism” as in Wilber’s definition of Boomeritis, but simply
and plainly, the egoic, unenlightened worldview falsely labelling itself as
the transcendent, enlightened worldview. I follow the simple description of
Boomeritis as Elizabeth Debold wrote in her article “Boomeritis and Me”, in
the magazine What Is Enlightenment (wie.com).

Today I received a special issue responding to her article. The
professionals, of all kinds, always profit from telling how difficult progress
to enlightenment is, not from telling how easy it is. They are inherently in
the business of selling enlightenment on the installment plan, not the short,
lightning path that makes their own expertise look mundane.

Real gurus show genuine humility by highlighting how simple and rational the
important core of enlightenment is, and how easy it is to trigger the intense
mystic altered state. There’s really little to it, and the best gurus are the
guides who deliver the most goods with the least inflationary nonsense that
would seek to blow up enlightenment into something bigger and more alien than
it is.

Professionals define religion as something incomprehensibly difficult and
laborious and rare, something you certainly need years of professional
guidance to make any progress in. Psychedelic psychotherapist Grof, being a
true teacher in the lightning-path tradition, is the better kind of
professional, like the better part of the shaman tradition.

You can count on magazines like What Is Enlightenment to commit to a model in
which psychospiritual transformation is rare, laborious, never-ending,
complicated, etherial, endlessly subtle, and challenging, rather than simple
and finite and straightforwardly attainable in a short time.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1379 From: wrmspirit Date: 08/03/2003
Subject: Re: Motivations of anti-entheogen meditation proponents
Enlightenrnent is an off shoot of all religious endeavors…..It is a means
of someone holding something over an other. It is the placing of a label,
action and a goal, by a program, not by living breath, on that which is the
substance of all life…..



Norma
Group: egodeath Message: 1380 From: merker2002 Date: 08/03/2003
Subject: Re: Motivations of anti-entheogen meditation proponents
[posting by norma]

Now, that means what?
I don’t see how your reply have *anything* to do with
the topics of this group.
Group: egodeath Message: 1381 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Re: Against medium-level religion of meditation & psychological sym
Wilber characterizes Boomeritis as some sort of narcissism. I think of
Boomeritis as ordinary egoic deluded thinking, with ordinary clueless
religiosity, mistaken as transcendent thinking, ego transcendence, and high
religiosity. What he characterizes as “narcissism” of the would-be
progressives, I think of as egoic thinking that is mistaken for transcendent
thinking — simply the age-old idea of people thinking they are being
religiously advanced or enlightened, when they aren’t particularly religiously
advanced or enlightened at all, just religious-styled. Boomeritis is the
condition of unenlightened, untransformed, uninitiated people who consider and
style themselves as enlightened, transformed, and initiated.
Group: egodeath Message: 1382 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Unclear postings are out of scope and subject to moderation
There have been regular complaints about postings that lack an effort to
provide comprehensible content, so I added the following to the posting rules.

Vague, unclear, hazy postings are off-topic and out of scope and are subject
to moderation. Contributors must make the effort for rational, clear,
explicit, intellectual, articulate, and comprehensible presentation of
particular points.

— Michael Hoffman
Group: egodeath Message: 1383 From: wrmspirit Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Re: Unclear postings are out of scope and subject to moderation
Only words can be moderated……Never truth….
Group: egodeath Message: 1384 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Scientific rational atheism is uncomprehending of myth
Earl Doherty (JesusPuzzle.com) and the other scientific rational atheist
skeptics have done so much to show that literalist Christianity is incorrect.
But that kind of rationality is mistaken, incorrect, and illogical, in that it
fails to comprehend and understand the genuinely valid rationality in high
myth-religion. That middle-level science fails to understand the symbolic
encoding or language and correct, rational meaning of myth-religion-mysticism.

To make the problem worse, most mystics and even theorists of myth don’t
understand the rational meaning of myth-religion-mysticism either. So we
bounce between camps: Indeed, the scientists are correct that the literalist
religionists are wrong. Should the scientists then concede that the typical
mystics and myth-theorists are correct? No.

It requires balancing and modifying notions about science and myth-mysticism;
today’s scientific rationalists misunderstand, and the mystics and theorists
of myth also misunderstand. No existing camp is very close to the truth about
myth-religion.

Scientific rationalists think that if there is any valid insight in myth,
science knows that insight better. This is partly correct. The best science
fully understands the meaning of myth, and the best of mythic thinking is
fully rational and scientific.

Mediocre scientific rationality fails to comprehend mythic meaning, and
mediocre mythic thinking fails to attain to rationality. Excellent scientific
thinking is fully in accord with excellent mythic thinking — at the top, they
embrace and the mind can make rational scientific sense out of myth and enjoy
it as a kind of mathematical art.

It’s sad to see great researchers such as Earl fall so short of full rational
comprehension of myth-religion. They assume that because literalist
Christianity is irrational, myth-religion can’t be explained easily and
rationally — but it can. The situation is very much like two intelligent
people arguing about a series of signals, or a stereogram.

The one thinker manages to decode the signals and lock focus on the encoded
stereogram image, and the other doesn’t, and therefore maintains that the
signal is meaningless noise and that the stereogram is just a flat picture
with no hidden picture.

As much as I want rationalists to recognize that myth may make perfect sense
when understood correctly, I immediately warn that today’s researchers of myth
and religion fully misunderstand their subject, not recognizing that myth
expresses the transcendent but very definitely comprehensible and specific
insights and experiences of the intense mystic altered state, characteristic
of entheogens.

Ultimately, fully developed scientific, rational thinking is able to enjoy
theology and myth as clever artistic plays and commentary on the logical
insights of the loose cognitive state. Today’s rational scientists are every
bit as dull, uncomprehending, unintelligent and irrational, as today’s
middle-level religionists.

They are all unsatisfying in practically the same way: they reject low
myth-religion and frank irrationality, while failing to attain to
comprehending and understanding high myth-religion and the ultimate end-state
of rationality, a cognitive state that gives rise to a worldmodel so perfectly
rational, the mind’s accustomed background assumptions of free will and
self-control become non-viable, leading to a system crash and reboot that
desperately requires a mental move that escapes, a la Hofstadter and Godel,
any particular, determinate system of rationality.

How does that crashed ego-controller, who crashed by attaining perfect
rationality, rationally regain practical control? Only by stepping up the
sense of what it means for rationality to be perfected. Regular perfect
rationality is what caused the dire problem of ego death and loss of control
in the first place; the only type of perfection of rationality that could work
to reboot the system is a qualitatively different, more transcendent type of
perfection of rationality.

Simple perfect rationality is not a viable operating system for a responsible
control-agent; an element of transcendence must be added, for practical reason
of seeming to be a control agent. The lie of egoic control and free will must
be reintroduced into the mind’s worldmodel even after the mind’s rationality
has developed to the point of showing egoic free-will self-control to be
logically incoherent and no more than a practical convention of illusion.

The simple perfection of reason that shows no-free-will to be as nonsensical
and unlikely as literalist religion, combined with the experience of
no-free-will, is not an absolute proof of no-free-will. However, the
ego-death experience is a real phenomenon to be explained — it is the king of
the mythic archetypes.

The ego-death experience doesn’t depend on attaining perfect certainty, but
rather, just an intensely strong confidence and feeling, such as can result
from a few years of intense grappling with the difficulty of personal
self-management while using entheogens to provide the loose-cognition state
that contributes insight into the problem.

Ego death is an intense experience that happens when the reflective mind
realizes how all the self-control problems it has been wrestling with would be
cleanly and simply solved by the worldmodel of the timeless block universe
with no individual free will.

When a mind intellectually appreciates and feels what an elegant solution this
is, or amounts to, or would be, then the practical problem of self-control
arises, and ego death occurs, and rationality concludes that ordinary perfect
rationality must leap into transcendent perfect rationality to regain, and to
discover a rational justification for, the illusion once again of being a
free-willing egoic control agent with an open future.

Myth coherently expresses and points toward this mental dynamic, in a
perfectly intelligible and rational way, never requiring religious literalism
or superstitious magic or psychic abilities. Everything about the mental
dynamic is a move from lesser to ordinary to higher to ultimate rationality.
It is easy to mistake high myth and ultimate rationality for low myth and
irrationality.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1385 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Watts, not Wilber, focused on core transformation
It is easy to mistake high myth and ultimate rationality for low myth and
irrationality. Ken Wilber’s idea of the pre/trans fallacy explains this
mistake, but even he doesn’t have a consistent, firm, clear, specific grasp on
what is most important in mythic symbolism and transrationality.

Should scientific rationalists who fail to rationally comprehend the meaning
of myth be pointed to Wilber as the key to understanding myth? No, the
essence and the core of comprehension is lost in Wilber’s understandably
complex system, with lopsided and unclear results. He doesn’t discuss
transrationality in the way that would be most useful for the greatest number
of people. His system is, for all practical purposes, wrong, or unseeing.

He has no real grasp of the problem of self-control and how it is reflected in
myth and how it is amplified and made to blossom or brought to a climax
through entheogens. He has many of the required pieces, but many of the
central key pieces are buried and strewn apart in his system. It’s not enough
for a model of religious experiencing to have the right pieces in a heap, or
in just any configuration.

Wilber has almost all the required puzzle pieces, but he hasn’t put them
together in a practical way; he has a bunch of airplane pieces but not a plane
that can actually fly. His framework is misfocused; the pieces need to be
flipped into a different configuration that emphasizes the problem of rational
self-control and the experience of loss of the sense of control, combined with
the experience of timelessness, during the intense mystic altered state, and
recognize how myth-religion expresses this very dynamic.

Wilber has some meditation-state experience and some metaphysical theory and
some understanding of myth, but he can’t identify the most powerful, most
central, and most relevant dynamics and insights, that would make the most
intense and distinct transformation happen straightforwardly in the majority
of minds. He thinks that psychospiritual progress is something that slowly
proceed on many fronts.

He doesn’t realize how simple, straightforward, rational, comprehensible, and
easy the main, classic religious transformation is. There really isn’t much
to it — this transformation was routine for the Hellenists, but Wilber thinks
that the Hellenists were primitive and had different psyches than we do now,
except for Mr. Historical Jesus, who was, inexplicably, psycho-spiritually
more advanced than we are.

The Hellenists were closer to the simple, concise core of understanding than
Wilber. Ingest the entheogenic sacrament, experience no-free-will and ego
death, discover the limits of ordinary perfect rationality, discover the
ability to validly and rationally postulate an even more perfected,
transcendent rationality that can account for illusion and convention, and
express this through various myths.

Very effective, attainable, simple, to-the-point, and no-nonsense — unlike
Wilber’s massive, complicated, unfocused system that has no clear central
transformation insight/experience but instead requires decades of meditation
with gradual incremental mini-transformations or transformation through
relatively continuous development.

Finally, in the end, Wilber’s system is unwieldy and impractical, like the
period when the guitar stores were carrying both the dirt simple and eminently
practical Line 6 Flextone guitar amp and the Johnson Millennium amp based on
the unwieldy DigiTech technology with lots of little programming buttons and
deep menus.

Ken Wilber’s system is like the Johnson Millennium amp — unfocused,
complicated, difficult to use, confused about its audience, not sure what its
central goal is, not focused on the central goal of most people in actual,
real circumstances. My ideal is more like the spirit that so suddenly thrust
Line 6 from out of nowhere into the lead: pick a realistic and popular target
scenario to address, and focus on the main goals, with ease of use,
practicality, and relevance.

As a sprawling theory of integral everything, Ken’s is a balanced and
effective theory. But he really, by a practical measure, is not — surprising
to say — very clear about the core pivot-point of the main transformation
that lies as a potential in every mind. Alan Watts was much more focused on
that main, pivotal transformation. The ideal theory then should combine the
sprawling overall integral framework of Wilber, with the focused core
transformation model of Watts.

Watts had a firmer grasp on the most central concerns that are relevant for
the main transformation we all can experience: sudden satori, Christian myth
in detail, and entheogens, and self-control, with an occasional treatment of
the illusory nature of individual free will. Wilber has these aspects but has
them less than Watts, and has a huge integral theory that overshadows,
obscures, and scatters apart these most important, key points.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1386 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Explicit, intelligible, unambiguous communic. of truth
Truth can’t be moderated, as by a discussion group moderator. It wouldn’t
make literal sense to talk about “moderating truth”; the word “moderate” isn’t
used that way. To talk that way would only make poetic sense.

There are two ways of expressing truth. Poetic aphorisms, which are often
unclear and confusing to other people, and explicit statements. It is an
abuse of this discussion group, per the group’s original purpose and charter,
to express truth in aphorisms without explicit clarification. A significant
number of people have complained because of postings here that are unclear.

The problem isn’t a matter of whether postings express truth. The problem is
that aphoristic style postings, without additional clarification, are
ambiguous and practically meaningless. Postings that are practically
meaningless are out of scope and subject to moderation, even if they contain
truth.

That is the problem people are complaining about. It would be rude and
inconsiderate as well as a violation of the posting rules to post only
aphoristic truths in this group. Many people take the stated character of
this discussion group seriously. They come here because of the group’s
mission and design. When that design is ignored

One of the biggest reasons enlightenment is out of reach is the tendency to
use poetic rather than explicit language, and the tendency to insist that only
poetic language and not explicit language, can describe religious or
transcendent insight. The blend in this group should be about 80% explicit
and 20% poetic language. The whole goal is to make explicit about religion
what has only been poetic previously. Poetic expression is the problem to be
solved and explained.

The end goal is not to post poetic expressions, but rather, to explain poetic
expressions explicitly. Given these goals, postings that lack explicit
expression are the problem rather than the solution.

If more people complain about the lack of explicit and unambiguous content in
postings here, even if the postings express truth in their poetic and
aphoristic way, moderating the postings would be a reasonable and fair way of
protecting the interests of the community that has been and could be attracted
here specifically because of the main promise and charter of the group: to
make explicit and unambiguous that which has been chronically and persistently
poetic.

The goal is to clearly explain, not just poetically characterize, transcendent
insight such as occurs around the high religio-philosophical-psychological
experience of ego death and rebirth. Postings that aren’t cooperating and
helping in this project of clarification will be moderated, to make good on
the promise and mission and dedication of this discussion group. Such
moderation isn’t about the truth content in postings, but rather, the degree
of explicit, unambiguous clarity in postings.

I will do the least moderation that produces the greatest benefit toward the
mission of this group. I have been uncertain whether to clamp down on the
poetic postings — it doesn’t make much difference to me, directly. But if
people are complaining that the postings violate the group’s mission
statement, I am concerned that the postings in question are driving away
participants and reducing the success of the group.

Maximizing the membership of the group has always been a non-goal. If I
moderate postings, it is out of sympathy for people who want to participate as
defined in the group’s charter and posting rules, than a desire to maximize
the number or quality of members. Perhaps I have given up too much on the
hope of attracting highly valuable contributors. Maybe the group could be
great and could provide lots of intelligible, insightful, explicit postings.
I hardly dare hope for that — it’s an investment that seems like a long shot.

Also a factor is the highly controversial nature of the group, and the public
exposure in it: that forces some of the most valuable members to just lurk and
not express their wishes for the group. I must take more into consideration
the wishes of the lurking scholars. However, I doubt I want to invest the
time to fully moderate the group. Time is the most limited thing — not the
quality of other members’ postings. Even if people want me to moderate the
group more, I’m not sure I’d be willing to spend the time.

I will take into some consideration how on-topic and in-scope people want the
postings to be. I know that many people would rather I lead more discussions
about the struggle to attain personal self-management and practical
self-control, but that is not where my interest and time commitment is lately,
even though it’s on-topic.

Truth communicated vaguely is only a little better than falsity or silence.
The only thing I want and love in a theory of transcendent knowledge is truth
expressed unambiguously, literally, directly, and without room for
misunderstanding, and this discussion group’s charter and posting rules
reflect that love for specificity and clarity as opposed to the reigning mode
of explanation which is limited strictly to poetic and metaphorical
expressions that could be taken multiple, unspecified ways.

The world has more than enough poetic expression of truth. This group is a
haven for that poor beleaguered other mode of expression of truth, the
scientific and rational mode. There are 99 groups that are perfectly well
suited for beautiful poetic postings about truth, and this group for that
microscopic minority, the 1% of researchers who are dedicated to explicitly
systematizing higher insight. If the poets block that project, then the poets
should be moderated.

Such moderation is not a significant censorious block on posting truth;
everyone is free to start their own group, just as Coraxo encouraged me to do.
Anyone who doesn’t accept this group’s charter is enthusiastically encouraged
to start their own group or join those other 99 groups that revel in today’s
all-too-common mode of thinking which is limited only to the poetic mode and
incapable of using language skillfully enough to also communicate intelligibly
in the literal and specific mode.

Those who disagree about the possibility of explaining mystic insight are
welcome to post intelligible and specific arguments for their case, but
posting vague and poetic commentary or vague denials of the rational
communicability of mystic insight can only be considered as an active,
willful, deliberate interference with the work of this group, just as Coraxo
said in his discussion group.

If I don’t moderate such postings when numerous people complain about them,
I’m being negligent and failing to follow through on the group’s stated
charter. I’m mad at being put on moderation on various groups, but I fully
respect and support the moderators for having the character and vision to
uphold a specific concept for their group.

Unmoderated discussion groups concerning higher religion usually degrade into
the kind of soft, formless, shapeless noise and essentially social
interactions that is typical of spirituality discussion groups. Those groups
that are a negative definition of what my favored, structured approach to
transcendent knowledge is all about.

That kind of vague expression and informal communication, and that denial of
rational communicability, is the very problem that I have always been
committed to overcoming in the field of transcendent knowledge or mystic
experiencing.

If there are further unintelligible poetic postings in this group, it’s likely
I’ll moderate them, especially if multiple people complain about them.

The subject of whether mystic insight is rationally explainable is centrally
on-topic and fair as a subject of *intelligible* debate here. Those who
aren’t willing to debate the issue by writing clearly and unambiguously and
intelligibly are refusing to follow the fixed rules of structured debate that
govern posting. What position you take is optional, but the mode of
communication is not optional.

Most discussion groups are mostly for socializing and they recoil in fear at
the sight of ongoing structured debate. But this group is designed to not be
like most groups. Here, it’s all about structured debate and clear, detailed,
specific communication. Truth is not something to be moderated, but it’s the
most reasonable thing in the world to moderate words, which may be an
expression of truth that meets or fails to meet the criteria of the posting
rules.

Writing this has made me appreciate how rare and precious a rational approach
to mysticism is, and has strengthened my commitment to making this group a
haven for those very few people who are committed to the power of clear,
explicit communication in this field that is so put upon by the majority who
like thinking of truth as eluding elude straightforward rational
comprehensibility.

Despite what everyone says, recourse to poetry is not necessary or the best we
can do for explaining mysticism. The dominant view I’m out to disprove is
that poetry can express mysticism but rationality and language cannot.
Rationality can fully explain mysticism, and poetry such as mythic figuration
can add high art to mysticism. It’s a deep, common fallacy to think that only
art can adequately address mysticism, while rationality and language cannot
comprehend mysticism.

Art and poetry without fully developed rationality and language skills fall
short of being transformative. A posting here may or may not contain art and
poetry, but it must contain developed rationality and language skills. Those
who are slack in their commitment and effort at the latter will be moderated,
in the spirit of commitment that defines the group.

The world of spirituality is grotesquely imbalanced, inundated with misty haze
and fog, always promoting an extreme overkill of art and poetry combined with
disparagement of rationality and language. This group is a sanctuary and
haven for the beleaguered few, the minority who want to, for once, give
rationality and clear language a chance.

People who like misty haze and fog, art and poetry but not clear
communication, are encouraged to find a group — all too easy to do — where
that mode of expressing truth is the accepted norm.

— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1387 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: Re: Scientific rational atheism is uncomprehending of myth
Correction:
>The simple perfection of reason that shows no-free-will
[should be “free will”]
>to be as nonsensical and unlikely as literalist religion, combined with the
experience of no-free-will, is not an absolute proof of no-free-will.
However, the ego-death experience is a real phenomenon to be explained — it
is the king of the mythic archetypes.


Free will is seen as being as nonsensical as a literalist reading of the
supernatural aspects of the Bible. A rational mystic experience is that of
seeing two paths suddenly open up before your eye: either miracles and all
kinds of Bible nonsense are admitted as possible and freewill is admitted as
possible, or, every last miracle and bit of Bible supernaturalism is purely
allegorical and there is no free will. The possibilities cleanly split into
these two exclusive groups.
Group: egodeath Message: 1388 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 09/03/2003
Subject: T’t rational justification of using the irrational ego
Transcendent rational justification for returning to using the irrational ego
after discovering its essentially illusory nature


>>When a mind intellectually appreciates and feels what an elegant solution
this is, or amounts to, or would be, then the practical problem of
self-control arises, and ego death occurs, and rationality concludes that
ordinary perfect rationality must leap into transcendent perfect rationality
to regain, and to discover a rational justification for, the illusion once
again of being a free-willing egoic control agent with an open future.

>There is much too much mind control suggested by those words. What brings
one out of [the control-system breakdown that results upon attaining ordinary]
perfect rationality, a perfect rationality which is better understood as
truth, is not clear at all. There is no ability on the part of the mind to do
any such thing; it happens all on its own, with the sense is that it is all
regulated by motion. There is no choice in that process at all, and to hint
at any type of control on the part of the mind is untruthful.


There is an unaccustomed leap of thinking involved when the mind moves from
ego-shaped, ordinary perfect rationality (at the end of its rope, followed to
the end of the road) to transcendent perfect rationality or perhaps
“trans-rationality”. The mind, though it is actively moving, experiences
being passively lifted into the higher mode of thinking.

This transformation or central moment of regeneration is initiated by the
frozen spacetime block or some hidden controller outside that block, rather
than being attributed to the ego as prime director. This is the moment of
feeling lifted up to receive a new worldmodel descending from on high.
Passive language predominates here.

The mind changes from containing a worldmodel that is shaped as an ego
actively perfecting its rationality (and thereby ultimately and metaphysically
losing control of self-control), to being shaped as a relatively passive
member of the Ground of Being through which a transcendent rationality is
conveyed from a hidden source that is emphatically not the egoic agent.

This is the moment of the mind’s conversion from thinking in terms of being an
active ego to being a passive member of the Ground or the One, or the timeless
block universe. There are mental actions all throughout this, but what
changes is the attribution of action.

One moment I sense that I as ego am working on my near-perfect rationality,
and I bring it to perfection, but thereupon, I die and lose the scepter of
self-control, now seeing myself as only conventionally being an ego-agent that
is driving and controlling the action.

This is often a frightening unstable mental state, this postulation of frozen
future and no individual self-control, during which the hidden higher
controller could inject any idea into the loose and flexible mind, and all the
mind’s egoic control efforts are recognized as being futile — it doesn’t make
any logical sense to try to stop the thought-injection, any more than a puppet
could act against its controller.

The mind may thrash about, grasping at its donkey of rationality to try to
save and restore the mind’s stability, but no egoic rational action can fix
the instability problem that was created by following rationality to its
logical end point. That kind of action-oriented perfected egoic rationality
concludes that there is no way for it to save itself.

Something higher is needed, and then, that higher thinking cannot be
considered to be the property of the ego: higher, transcendent, restabilizing
and “saving” rationality appears in the mind but the mind doesn’t attribute
that move, that discovery of the transcendent potential, to the ego. The
transcendent potential is experienced as descending like a crown or new
operating system from above, from outside the ego/world system.

The mind is given control again; not that the egoic mind *takes* control
again. The mind receives the higher worldmodel. Speaking exactly, the mind
does create the higher worldmodel — but during this creative act, the mind is
not ego-shaped, so the mind does not give the active ego agent, now seen as
essentially illusory, credit for discovering the higher worldmodel.

The lower mind brings itself to an end as an actor taken for real, and the
higher mode of the mind lies waiting in the timeless future, waiting for the
donkey to arrive or arise to the requisite high state. This can be pictured
as a sinner climbing up, then the demons falling out of him while he is lifted
up and crowned by the savior. It’s not hard to find parallels in other
religions, concerning activeness becoming passiveness while grappling with
demons and compassionate deities.

This issue of the order of salvation is central to theological debate. In
what sense does the sinner actively “accept” the faith and grace to be
passively saved? An action of transformation or turning occurs in the moment
of salvific regeneration, and it has something to do with the will of the
regenerate sinner, but Reform theology doesn’t want to give any credit to the
ego as an active agent causing its own salvation.

Action happens in the mind. Thoughts move in the mind during the moment of
satori, enlightenment, or salvation, or mentally reentering the holy land.
The contested key issue is whether those thoughts are to be credited to an
ego-agent or to something that transcends the ego agent and is somehow over or
underlying or prior to the ego agent.

One way to express this is to say that the egoic mind is the lower mind and is
accustomed to crediting the mind’s movements to the ego, but during
transformation, the lower mind’s work of reason disproves the logical
integrity and viability of the model of control that defines the lower mind.
At that point, the higher mind kicks in or drops in or is manifested.

How active is this higher mind that the mind discovers in itself? The first
thing and main thing to be said about the activeness of the higher mind is
that it is *not* the kind of egoic independent prime-mover, self-mover action
that characterizes and defines the lower mind. Can we say that there is no
action the mind can do to attain higher rationality and regain control? That
way of talking doesn’t work and can’t explain the dynamics.

The better way of talking that can explain the dynamics is to break the
individual mind into lower mind and higher mind. There *is* a choice that the
individual higher mind can make, and there *are* actions that the higher mind
can make, but it is most important to remember that the mode and origin of
this kind of choice and action are specifically not imagined to be that of the
freewilling, self-driving ego-agent.

This higher mind possesses control of a sort, but remember that all relevant
mental constructs regarding space, time, self, and control are redefined and
reconfigured in the transcendent mental worldmodel, compared to the egoic
mental worldmodel. Transcendent control exerted by the higher mind is most
emphatically not the kind of control imagined in the egoic mind, so the word
“control” has a less correct and more correctly conceived meaning.

The egoic mind has an inferior notion of what its control involves. In
reality, there is no control of that kind. But in the resurrecting mind,
that’s being lifted up, control is happening there and choice is happening
there — it’s just no longer credited to the essentially illusory ego-agent.
The concept of control and choice is deeply revised.

I take all this for granted, having essentially explained it before. The
point I was elucidating in my original posting was that the salvific moment of
regenerative transformation of thinking (centered around the will), involves
moving from one kind of perfect rationality to a more transcendent kind of
perfect rationality. Ordinary, lower perfect rationality, when brought to
completion, kills the ego that was the donkey the mind rode in on. “The law
kills.”

I was focused on comparing the two kinds of “perfect rationality”, not the two
states of control or seeming control. Transcendent, higher perfect
rationality takes into account something fatally important that lower
perfection failed to account for: the need for imperfection and illusion and
convention; the practical need for the ego illusion.

The *truly* perfected rational mind must willingly re-embrace a lie, the lie
or convention of egoic agency, to regain the practical sense of being a stable
control-agent. “Love, mercy, and forgiveness saves.” We have sacrificed the
illusory lower self, but we have forgiven its error and we continue to use it,
with that lie of ego being now redeemed, cleansed, made righteous and fully
rationally and morally justified.


— Michael Hoffman
Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 1389 From: oraganon Date: 11/03/2003
Subject: De Ventra
May ones construct be the bounds of ones self
May ones self be the illusion of ones being
Attraction governs the fruit of existence
The change of life moving through death
The infinite uni
Experiencing alignment
Centre of the divide
All time as a moment
No memory
Only construct
Experiencing existence
Part of the hole
Being of self
Forever indifferent
Riding attraction
Through poles of the divide
Consistently following
Perfect alignment of being
One with the infinite
The existent uni
All parts being one
Existing at once in time
Without beginning nor end
Ever present
Parentless
A permanence of existent energies
Forever in motion
Aligned in the divide
Oh perfect one
IN resonance with the universe
Only experiencing consciousness
Limitless
Pure essence of existence
Perfectly constructed
Sub consciousness
Vastly adorned
Open and indifferent
Unto all substance
For one perceives directly
The true experience of existence
Be ing
An existent subjective
Flowing free through the fountain
Bounded by one ness
Drifting through the currents and tides (attraction)
Traveling a thousand roads
Picking a thousand flowers
Perfect alignment in attainment
Achieving the diamond self
Perfect
Immortal
A thread existent
Unto all spheres ƒ
Driven to withstand universal energies
Creating the pearl of great price
Expanding unto the great expanse
Returning all that is immanent
The balance of poles
Unto all existent spheres
Compounding the diamond essence
Flowing the motion of nature
Through the existent
Pushing the threshold
Driving attraction
Positioning of alignment
Nirvana to creation
Forthwith expanding energies
Into the extra infinite universes
Creating the individual
A sphere of conception

The self
Filled with the waters
Pure existence
Axioms of intelligent threading
Sparks aligned in light rays
Fluid matter in the flux
Sheets tied to the great ones
Exchanging every movement
Momentary ties
To the great beyond
Expelling the matrices
The inner/extra dimension
Fearless unto the all
Foreseeing experience
Experiencing Existence
As true as today
At this very moment


http://www.oraganon.IsDangerous.com/
Group: egodeath Message: 1390 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Hello……
Hi,
I joined this group some time ago. When searching, I apparently
have never posted here, although I believe I carried on a brief e-
mail chat a few years ago about Rock Lyrics (old Yardbird fan) It
seems I have had other correspondance at one time or another, but
cannot remember specifics.

When reviewing the messages here, the books the resources etc., I
find that much of the ideas expressed are along similar lines
to “my,” own “thinking.”

While it seems that much of the deconstruction going on here focuses
on the western models, my particular orientation has been in the
Buddhist mode. I have been busy for some time trying to communicate
to buddhist “larvels,”—pushing the “Entheogenic Origins of
Religions,” theory amonst literalistic Mahayana Buddhists. This has
put me in the position of trying to unravel/deconstuct Buddhism and
get to the heart of the explanations and tearing down dogma—
needless to say I have been confronted with nasty words and had for
some time toyed with people, whose attention span is very short and
who are generally very literalistic.

Of course Nichiren Buddhism had/has a broad appeal in Japan (third
largest political party and member of the present coalition
government) and in the west in the late sixties and up through the
seventies. I basically resigned my function headquarters level
function when I saw a schism coming, in 1982 and and then by the
nineties they fell into frightening and massive schisms stemming
from an argument between the High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu and the
giant and highly political lay group, the Sokagakkai, lead by
Daisaku Ikeda in Japan. Sokagakkai is worth around 125 billion in
terms of money, just to give you an idea of it’s size. In the Us
there was at one tie around 200,000 members, today it is
considerably smaller and far le4ss active in terms of conversion
rate. The goal is enlightenment and “World Peace.” Although they
are accused of being a cult and some call them “dangerous,” this is
not really true—exceot to themselves and their own unity. In
recent years they have become more democratic and less rigid, but
the core still falls into the trap of following literalistic
behavior, since they recruti from all ares of society, and has that
tendancy to be old-school Japanese, very hierarchy oriented etc.
Their schism spilled out across the oceans and into the lay groups
of in over 125 countries.

After my heavy duty experiences with LSD and STP in the late
sixties I became involved with Nichiren Buddhists, since the content
of the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra (Jap. Myoho Renge Kyo) best
resonated completely with my experiences. When I had first become
involved in the west coast group, I was naive enough (at 20 years
old–fresh from psychdelic-Buddhahood of my own) to imagine that all
these young people must have had similar experiences as I had had.
It didn’t take long to discover that whatever the catylst was for so
many westerners to get involved with Nichiren Buddhism, in the west,
the psychedelic experience factor has only been a subliminal cause.

Many in the west who joined in the sixties had perhaps used LSD only
to the point of the initially breaking down existing belief systems
and creating a hypersuggestibile state. Few of them had a previous
Buddhist study or practice background and in my 34 years of
involvement with Nichiren Buddhists I have yet to run across anyone
who had had extensive inner experiences.

Nichiren (1222-1282) was quite a guy though and living at a time of
totally corrupt Buddhism, intertwined with perverse and bizarre
tantric rituals, military ands government control—he was a
passionate and heavily persected fellow.

In my experience, with many Buddhists and being a upper leader of
the group in So California, for many years till 1982, there was a
time when it was really an incredible phenomena, that was spreading
at an incredible rate. Today they are pretty insulated and spend
lots of time arguing with themsleves on the internet…..myself
being the single voice trying to get them to deconstruct the
Japanese cultural accretions and see that real Buddhism goes beyond
dogma and distinctions about sects and superficiality or guru-style
worship.

In the process, I have written a great deal of stuff that is
considered too radical and trying to explain the Entheogenic Origins
of Hinduism and Buddhism is generally like talking to Bodhidharma’s
brick wall.

Nichiren had created a Great Mandala called the Gohonzon, to which
his followers recite a chapter and a half of the Lotus Sutra. He
himself had had some heavy experiences, first when he was twelve—
some kind of “swoon.” (ergot poisoning?) where he said he had had a
vision of “Bodhisattva Kokuzo,” who presented him with a “gem of
singular importance,” and then later, when practising the
meditation style of Tien-t’ai (7th century) the Chinese Buddhist
who taught the theory of “Three Thousand life states in a single
moment,” and mutual possession, which of course is much like the
holographic mind theory, Nichiren came out of a period of seclusion
and announced the mantra Nam Myoho Reege Kyo to the world, renaming
himself “Sun Lotus,” (Nichiren)
The Gohonzon, Nichiren taught, was the depiction of the 16th Chapter
of the Lotus Sutra, wherein the Buddha reveals his “eternal life”

Over the years in studying archeoastronomy and Entheogen use, I was
able to do a basic disection of the Great Madala (gohonzon) and the
calligraphic characters upon it and have basically deconstucted it
in a piece I have worked on called “In the land of the Rose Apple,”
which breaks down those hindu, buddhist and shinto dieties
inscribed upon it and the fictitious or imaginary bodhisattva
functions, in terms of astronomical objects ala de
Santiliana’s “Hamlets Mill.” It is a work in progress.

I wonder if you folks would be interested in this?

My present and recurring interest at this point in my life seems to
be the idea of promoting the idea that “Freedom of Religion,” should
include Entheogen use. This is nothing new, but I find it
interesting (and absurd) that the “theory” of the “Entheogenic
Origins of Religion,” has yet to go to the Supreme Court—if you
know what I mean. Seems to me that a well thought out and
rationally presented case, backed up by so many “scholar’s
scholars,” such as Huston Smith, RA Zechner, Gordon Wasson, Aldous
Huxley, Wendy Donniger, Carl Jung, Sigmund Freud, John Allegro and
many, many others, even Albert Einstein and possibly even
Shakespeare, who has suggested this “theory,” could prove that
making entheogens illegal really is violating the first ammendment
to the constitution. Of ocurse this would take some kind of
cohesive (but illusive) effort by many who are usually absorbed in
their own goldfish bowls of reality.

Well, thats all I have to say at the moment, just felt the need to
communicate on this board, since as I saod, it echoes many of my
own long time ideas and directions.

One last thing. Has anyone here purchased and studied the 2
expensive (hundredsof dollars each and hard to buy) volumes by David
Spess that elaborate on his little Book “Soma the divine
hallucinogen?”

David Cole

Ojai, Ca.
Group: egodeath Message: 1391 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Toward a viable model of how religious literalism overshadowed entheogenic
mysticism and the entheogenic origin and vital fountainhead of myth-religion.

According to the entheogenic non-literalist theory of the origin and
development of religions, pretty much all the religions began from entheogen
use, not from a literal founder, and always retained a strong tradition of
entheogen use and purely esoteric, non-literalist thinking, though this has
consistently been obscured by the official religionists and by the
thick-headed cluelessness and shallow literalism of the modern era’s
sensibilities.

We’ve been trained to see literalist religion everywhere, but must learn to
instead see entheogenic religion everywhere.


This article defines the main outlines for an entheogenic non-literalist
theory of the origin and development of religions.

I’m committed to the axiom that religion is really about entheogenic
experiencing and entheogenic insight rather than literalism, ethics, and the
supernatural. This may seem at first to be problematic and therefore
unthinkable. However, recall that worldviews are a dime a dozen.

Nothing is easier than constructing a worldmodel that is consistent according
to its innate version of what consistency means, and logical according to its
own built-in conception of what it means to be logical, and well supported by
the evidence, according to its own, characteristic, built-in conception of
what constitutes evidential support. Every interpretive framework has
strengths and weaknesses.

Literalist Christian history, including the New Testament version of the
history of the origin of the Christian religion, is strongly accepted even
though it is deeply improbable by the standards of the skeptical minority, and
even when reasonable people scientifically discard the supernatural miracles,
they still accept the New Testament version of history overall.

So improbability, even gross improbability, has never been a serious
impediment to adopting a worldview. A battle between interpretive frameworks
is a largely even contest; both sides have elements that can be considered
strengths and weaknesses, evidence and counter-evidence.

The theory that religion is really about entheogens rather than literalism is
no different than the literalist, New Testament-based theory, that religion
originates like a big bang at a point in time from the immensely great and
innovative deeds and teachings of a founding figure, an original religious
superstar.

Literalist Christianity has had many years to explain away its difficulties
and highlight its reasonableness and put into place the standards of
assessment that are optimized to favor literalism. The entheogen theory of
the origin of religions has hardly had a year or two to begin — a strong
candidate for the start of the building of this case, as far as Christianity,
is John Allegro’s 1967 book The Sacred Mushroom & The Cross — and that was
just an isolated theory about one religion in isolation.

Who before me has made a general proposal that the real meaning and origin of
all the religions is entheogenic? McKenna seems to propose something like
that, but that doesn’t come across clearly.

I have my own particular model of entheogens and religion and myth, and am
bound to raise the question in a way that favors my own theory, but I ask:
what scholar has proposed that basically, all religion originates, and all the
religions originated, from entheogens? Did Wasson propose that? Leary? The
assertion requires qualification, of course.

No doubt, many things that can be called religions did not proceed from
entheogens directly, and many individuals who are conventionally considered
religious are oblivious to entheogens. So clarifying the assertion or
proposal is a main step in erecting this interpretive framework. The proposal
in short is that “religion and religions are really, essentially, originally
entheogenic, not Literalist”, or more tersely, “religion is really
entheogenic, not literalist”.

This proposal can be called “the entheogenic theory of the origin of
religions” and particularly applies to Christianity as well, and implies a
rejection of the default counter-proposal that currently is dominant, which
may be called “the literalist theory of the origin of religions” and takes it
for granted that Buddha started Buddhism, just like the Buddhists say, and
Jesus Christ started Christianity (together with Paul) just like the New
Testament says, and Mohammed started Islam, and Moses and Abraham started
Judaism.

Much scholarship has been done by Christians and skeptics to examine and
account for the weaknesses of the literalist theory of the origin of
Christianity. Almost no scholarship has been done to examine and account for
the weaknesses of the entheogenic theory of the origin of Christianity. First
of all, we need to start defining what these weaknesses are.

The origin, essence, inspiration, and source of Christianity is really
entheogens rather than the literalist factors such as the big bang New
Testament story, where the causal explosion event is held to be the
resurrection, Jesus’ incredible and stunning ethical innovation, or Paul’s
incredibly and unbelievably rapid proselytizing.

But why is there so much credence given to the literalist theory and so little
evidence for the entheogen theory?

Why are the predominant religions so averse to psychoactives?

Why does the typical religionist — Buddhist, Christian, and others — take
such offense to any positive role of psychoactives as the historical source of
inspiration for their religion?

We need to work to gradually clarify how entheogens may have been used as a
source of early Christianity, and how they reinvigorated early Christianity.
On the other side, we need to clarify the main varieties of the literalist
theory of the origin of Christianity: there are perhaps three main versions:
Supernatural Literalism, demythified literalism, and gradual-coalescence
literalism.

Supernatural literalism as a theory of the origin of Christianity is the
proposal that Jesus existed, and was crucified, and miraculously was raised to
life by God; the disciples became apostles and Paul did as well, as reported
in Acts. Between half and all of the Bible miracles are true, particularly
the great deeds of Jesus. The Holy Spirit descended on a particular
historical day, mysteriously and inexplicably.

Jesus will literally return and battle the forces of evil, and all souls will
be judged and sorted into heaven and hell. N.T. Wright holds this position.

Demythified literalism accepts many of the above scenario aspects, but removes
all the supernatural or miraculous elements, and soft-pedals hell and heaven,
and holds an awkward stance of accepting that some miracles could happen, that
the overall history of the start of Christianity as told in the New Testament
is true. Jesus and the other characters in the New Testament existed, but
either didn’t rise after his crucifixion, or was never fully dead, and was
resuscitated and may have gone to India.

This view normally assumes that a historical Jesus played an important and
necessary role; Christianity as we know it couldn’t have started without some
historical Jesus. This view is considered liberal, but certainly not radical
to any degree. This view tends to assume that Christianity began as a mostly
single, unified religion, though often besieged by breakaway sects and various
dissenters or deviants.

Gradual-coalescence literalism still hangs onto many of the above elements,
usually taking for granted the historicity of a single Jesus figure and of
Paul and of some of the New Testament characters. However, it doesn’t hold
the existence of Jesus to be necessary for the origin of Christianity. It
holds that the driving force behind Christianity at the start was the various
schools or sects, with various combinations of Hellenistic high philosophy,
Jewish sects, and gnostic groups.

Christianity began in extreme diversity and multiplicity, and was only brought
together into an apparently single religion around 313. This viewpoint is
promoted definitively by Burton Mack, who doesn’t challenge the assumption
that there was a single historical Jesus, but whose theory is entirely
independent of whether there was such an individual. This is considered
moderately radical.

Those are the three main frameworks that currently reign. Any big bookstore
has several books promoting each view. The gradual-coalescence view is the
most cutting-edge relative to mainstream scholarly consensus. Supernatural
literalism is a huge popular market which supports the constant publication of
many books upholding that set of assumptions about the nature of the origin of
Christianity.

Demythified literalism is mainstream in the Churches. By defining and
differentiating between these three existing, mainstream views, we have
several points of view which help to define the position of the entheogenic
theory of the origin of Christianity.

We also at the start of this project need to differentiate possible main
variants of the entheogenic theory: Jesus as an entheogenic hierophant, and
Jesus as purely a personification of the entheogen, like Dionysus. Mainstream
scholars mention Allegro’s theory by incorrectly describing the scenario as
“Jesus was the leader of a mushroom cult.”

Allegro’s theory actually held that Jesus was the mushroom, not the leader of
consuming mushrooms. Allegro assumes that Christianity was originally
singular, and later branched. The same mode of thinking happens if you assume
Buddha used mushrooms: you accept the premise of a literal founding figure
who, in big bang fashion, started a single original version of the religion,
that later branched.

The several main literalist and entheogenic views of religious origins must
also be defined for Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism. What are the three main
literalist views of the origin of those religions? What are the two or three
main entheogenic models of the origin of those religions? Was Buddha the
leader of a mushroom cult? Or was Buddha strictly the mushroom consumed?

Was Moses a user of mushrooms? Or instead, was Moses a traditional mythic
figure that was explored by mushroom users in the Jewish tradition? I see two
main entheogenic theories of the origin of any religion: either the founder
used entheogens, or the founder didn’t exist but is a personification of the
use of entheogens or of the experience-cycle resulting in the life of a
follower by using entheogens.

These positions can be called the literalist entheogenic position, and the
purely entheogenic position. So at a high level we have two paradigms to
compare: literalist versus entheogenic, but at a more detailed level, we have
five paradigms to compare.

I use the words “conservative”, “liberal”, and “radical” with caution: it’s
all relative. I use the terms here in the conventional, consensus sense,
though I point out that they are tricky and full of assumptions; in general,
one man’s “radical” is another man’s “conservative”.

The most radical of the literalist theories, gradual-coalescence literalism,
is very compatible with viewing entheogens as the origin of some sects, but
probably not of all sects. That acceptance and compatibility makes the
first-order approximation, “literalist versus entheogenic”, problematic.

The most conservative of the entheogen theories, the “literalist entheogenic”
position in which the founding figure consumed entheogens, is very literalist
while being entheogenic as well, which again makes the first-order
approximation, “literalist versus entheogenic”, problematic.

We can see my two first-order groupings touching: Burton Mack could accept
that some of the earliest schools of what would become Christianity utilized
entheogens, and Jesus’ own group may have done so as one of those diverse
groups — that’s the “Jesus tripping with the Essenes at Qumran” scenario,
which is very popular with the entheogenists, who wish to gain Jesus as a
powerful political ally in the drug policy reformation movement.

Even in the entheogen camp we can see the forces of literalism at work:
gaining mundane power is often helped by a literalist rather than purely
mystic framework of assumptions.

The two groups and the five subgroups I’ve identified, as theories of the
origin of Christianity, are:

Literalist theory:
Supernatural literalism
Demythified literalism
Gradual-coalescence literalism

Entheogenic theory:
literalist entheogenic
purely entheogenic

My theory is that Christianity and the religions are really entheogenic and
not literalist. My main problem is that there is so much evidence for
religions being about literalism and so little evidence of religions being
about entheogens.

The main work, in putting forth a viable theory of the entheogenic origin of
religions, is to explain why, if religions are really about entheogen use and
originate from entheogen use, there is so little evidence of that, and so much
evidence that suggests a literal founding-figure origin and especially an
intensely literalist tradition.

Two possibilities instantly come to mind together: that there really isn’t
much evidence for a literal founding-figure, and there really isn’t much
evidence that the later tradition was so literalist as we in the modern era
have thought.

So we have a puzzle developing, with some complexity and flexibility. First
we find that there is no single literalist version of a religion or literalist
model of the start of a religion, and there is no single entheogen-compatible
model of a religion’s origin or later tradition. These latter points indicate
another distinction we must address: there are two periods to distinctly
debate: whether a religion was *originally* about entheogens or literalism,
and whether that religion was *later* about entheogens or literalism.

I am committed to defining and promoting the most extreme view, that all the
religions, in their origin and their later development, we about entheogen
use, and, they were neither started by a literal founding figure nor later
based on the assumption of a literal founding figure. All the religions began
as non-literalist entheogenic initiation rites and continued as non-literalist
entheogenic initiation rites.

This is the opposite in every way of the conservative Christian assumptions
about the religions: they assume that all the religions were founded by a
literal founding figure and didn’t involve entheogens. Literalist
anti-entheogenists have a literalist anti-entheogenic theory of what all
religions are about and how they started.

Literalist entheogenists (“Jesus and Buddha took mushrooms, and so did the
most esoteric of their later followers”) have a literalist entheogenic theory
of what all religions are about and how they started. Purist entheogenists
must now work to create an equivalent model. It’s not a matter of whether it
can be done. Any model, interpretive framework, paradigm, worldview, or
worldmodel can be constructed and defended, and it’s not that difficult.
Self-consistent systems are a dime a dozen.


Just as the most conservative literalist saves his credibility by grudgingly
admitting that some religion is nonliteralist and entheogenic, so should the
purist entheogenist admit that not all religion is purely entheogenic and
nonliteral. These two camps are arguing then about the relative size of the
two kinds of religion models, or histories.

As a purist entheogenist, I argue that religion has always “really” been about
entheogens and not literalist elements. Much of the work of paradigm
definition concerns defining what exactly is meant by that “really”. This
includes addressing the question not of *whether* drugs were used in
Christianity or other religions, but only *how commonly* and how influentially
or how importantly.

A purist entheogenist theory of the origin of religion can be a purist
entheogenic theory of what all religions are about and how they started. By
“purist”, I mean emphatically and definitely rejecting the literalist
explanations of the origin of religions. “Purist entheogenist” means an
entirely entheogenic, and not at all a literalist, model of the origin of the
religions.

We need a model of how religious literalism overshadowed entheogenic
mysticism, at least overshadowing it according to the official histories.
This suggests another piece of the puzzle, the distinction between the
official histories of religions and the actual, perhaps popular or mystic or
radical histories and actualities of the religions. Certainly, Christianity
is portrayed in the great majority of books as literalist and not entheogenic.
Let’s change what we’re defining a bit:

The “purist entheogenic theory of religion” holds that a religion was *both
originally and later* really about entheogen use rather than literalist
concerns.
The “purist entheogenic theory of the origin of religions” holds that a
religion was *originally* about entheogen use rather than literalist concerns.
The “purist entheogenic theory of the development of religions” holds that a
religion was *during the main, central part of its history* about entheogen
use rather than literalist concerns.

Spelling out the first of those three theory-names, the most extreme theory is
the purist entheogenic theory of the origin and development of religions. I
may be the first to formulate such an extreme and uncompromising model. This
theory holds that generally, all the religions were originally about
entheogens, not literalist concerns, and were later about entheogens, not
literalist concerns.

It is practically easiest to formulate this extreme theory, and then later
ease back and see how much compromise must be admitted and how much ground
must be conceded to the literalist views of origins and developments of
religions.

I am willing to grant that Joseph Smith existed as a single, historical
individual who used Amanita and started the Mormon church, perhaps somewhat
like Tim Leary existed and consumed psilocybin and then LSD and started the
LSD cult, exemplified by the League for Spiritual Discovery.

There may be many combinations:
The founder did/didn’t exist. The founder did/didn’t take entheogens. The
original members did/didn’t use entheogens. The later followers did/didn’t
take entheogens.


Permutating the combinations:

0000 The founder didn’t exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The
original members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take
entheogens. (Typical no-historical-Jesus position)

0001 The founder didn’t exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The
original members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers did take
entheogens. (The “later deviant esotericists” position)

0010 The founder didn’t exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The
original members did use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take
entheogens.

0011 The founder didn’t exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The
original members did use entheogens. The later followers did take entheogens.
(The purist entheogenic theory of the origin and development of religion,
“Pretty much all the religions began from entheogen use, not from a literal
founder, and always retained a strong tradition of entheogen use and purely
esoteric, non-literalist thinking, though this has consistently been obscured
by the official religionists and by the thick-headed cluelessness and shallow
literalism of the modern era’s sensibilities”)

0100 The founder didn’t exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take entheogens.

0101 The founder didn’t exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers did take entheogens.

0110 The founder didn’t exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members did use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take entheogens.

0111 The founder didn’t exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members did use entheogens. The later followers did take entheogens.

1000 The founder did exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The original
members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take entheogens.

1001 The founder did exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The original
members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers did take entheogens.

1010 The founder did exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The original
members did use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take entheogens.

1011 The founder did exist. The founder didn’t take entheogens. The original
members did use entheogens. The later followers did take entheogens.

1100 The founder did exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take entheogens.
(“Jesus was secretly using mushrooms, but his followers never understood
this.”)

1101 The founder did exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members didn’t use entheogens. The later followers did take entheogens.

1110 The founder did exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members did use entheogens. The later followers didn’t take entheogens. (The
popular literalist entheogenist theory of an originally entheogenic and later
degenerated, placebo tradition – “Jesus was an entheogenic hierophant on top
of whom Christianity later developed in a distorted way, lacking the
psychoactive sacrament Jesus used with this disciples”)

1111 The founder did exist. The founder did take entheogens. The original
members did use entheogens. The later followers did take entheogens. (“Jesus
started Christianity as a mushroom cult and is has remained so among his true
followers in the esoteric semi-suppressed tradition”)


Combination 0011 is the purist entheogenic theory of the origin and
development of religion, which I advocate and am defining.

I leave it as a fun exercise for the reader to add parenthetical
characterizations of the remaining permutations of assumptions above.


The above is the top-level outline of the challenge. The detailed work
remains, to explain exactly and in detail how it was that each religion
started with entheogen use, and didn’t start with a literal founder, and
continued with a strong tradition of entheogen use and a strong tradition of
purely esoteric, mystic-state, allegorical understanding of the religion’s
mythic framework.

It remains to explain exactly how those strong entheogenic, allegorical-only
origins and traditions were not clearly reflected in the literature and
artwork that is commonly available. Books about mysticism and entheogenic
religion always have half a page explaining rather carelessly and casually
that the officials naturally wanted to retain control, so suppressed those who
sought and promoted direct experiential knowledge of the sacred realm.

But if such books want to effectively promote their view of mysticism and
entheogens, clearly a whole chapter and book are required to explain exactly
and in detail how the suppression of the mystics and the suppression of
entheogen use worked in practice.

If a huge number of original and later members of the religion were mystics
(whether literalists or anti-literalists) and entheogenist mystics (whether
literalist or anti-literalist), why is there so little evidence for the
existence of the mystic version of Christianity, and why is there so little
evidence for the use of entheogens in the beginning and later development of
the religions?

Why exactly was the mystic version of each religion suppressed so much and so
effectively, and why exactly was the common use of entheogens suppressed so
determinedly and so effectively?

To gain insight on how suppression and distortion works with regard to
mysticism and entheogens, look for comparable examples from the current era.
Consider the suppression of LSD references in rock from 1965 through the 1970s
and beyond, how it forced the creation of covert encoded lyrical allusions to
LSD phenomena instead.

Also look at how drug prohibition has distorted history, museum exhibits,
cognitive science, psychotherapy, and religious practice, making a perfectly
complete and extreme mockery of the claim to allowing religious freedom (you
can practice any fake, placebo, ineffective, nontransformative religion you
want).

Another strategy that must be used in this project is to consider the
religions both as a group and individually, striving to find and assert the
commonness of entheogenic anti-literalist features in the start and
development of every religion. By now, there are a couple books that make the
case for the presence of entheogens in each religion, and there are a handful
of good books on the mystic, psychological, symbolic, esoteric reading of
Christianity, as well as such books about other religions.

A couple of the Christian mysticism books advocate the purely mystic,
anti-literalist view of the origin of Christianity (Alvin Huhn’s book Rebirth
for Christianity, Freke & Gandy’s books The Jesus Mysteries and Jesus & The
Goddess), or assert that the later Christians were entirely concerned with the
allegorical archetypal psychological, esoteric Christ, and unconcerned with
the historical Jesus (Watts’ book on Christian symbolism).

Dan Merkur’s books Mystery of Manna and Psychedelic Sacrament reveal
entheogens in Jewish religion. This is the first time enough books exist so
that a theorist can focus on gathering their fruits to begin to formulate a
sweeping theory that all religions started and remained entheogenic and not
literalist. I’m really pushing the edge here. I really doubt that anyone
else has brought these ideas to this logical culmination point.

This is a paradigm shift, in that a minority hold the New Testament to be all
fictional, a minority holds the Old Testament to be all fictional, a minority
holds that entheogens are present at the start of some religions, a minority
holds that entheogens were present at the start of most religions including
Christianity, and a minority hold that entheogens have always been
significantly present in all religions.

It’s time to combine and resolve these epicyclic corrections or Newtonian
spacetime incongruities into a theory that can better accommodate all of them.

Another element in this framework formation is to examine the ongoing dynamic
tug-of-war between official literalism and mysticism, including entheogenic
mysticism. Look at the relations between official literalism and mainstream
mystics, and consider that relationship to be present even more pronouncedly
between the official religionists and the entheogenic mystics. Was there
really such a thing as non-entheogenic mystics, or does it finally turn out
that basically all mystics used entheogens?

Something similar happens with regard to the debate about the freedom of the
will in both philosophy and religion, as well as in quantum mechanics and
artificial intelligence or consciousness research. Treat this as a related
distinct case of suppression and distortion and potential paradigm shift, a
hot, ever-contested pivot point of concern to mystics and officials.

Free will is discussed so much but yet so little, and always so contentiously.
Concern with the subject of the freedom of the will always turns out to be as
central in theology as the Eucharist, and is a standard concern of mysticism,
but it still isn’t discussed in popular religion. It is truly amazing that no
one has written a book on the history of determinism — it is a subject so
hot, so widespread, so close to us that it doesn’t occur to look and see that
the subject is very common and widespread.

The strong entheogen theory of religion requires seeing something everywhere,
in the center of the picture, where before we kept seeing it scattered here or
there as isolated heresies or deviance off to the side.

It is a revolution in perspective to stop painting literalism in the middle of
the religious scene, with mystics and magic plants off to the side demoted to
scattered heresies, and instead start painting the historical picture with the
literalists demoted to the role of annoying deviants and scattered minor
cults, with entheogenic mysticism in the middle.

I am concerned that many would-be progressive scholars do themselves a
disservice by taking too many conventional assumptions for granted, and
questioning one piece in isolation. These baby steps won’t go anywhere; they
are band-aids and stopgaps. Let’s begin from the maximal postulate that all
religion is really about entheogens rather than literalism. A wholesale
paradigm shift is much faster than incremental change, and there are now
enough books to begin making the maximal theory viable.

Any paradigm can be built up and supported; let’s try this one and see how
much ground were are forced to conceded when looking through this lens and
using this framework’s standards of assessment of what’s plausible and what’s
implausible. From the vantage point this system entails, it is implausible to
have a religion in which entheogens aren’t central, both in the origin and
later development.

Entheogens are powerful, reliable, and widespread; people have every reason to
make entheogens the center of religion, and no reason not to, except for
reasons that are outside religion, such as moralism, social convention, and
political contention.

The latter suggests some useful main categories for explaining how entheogens
have been largely suppressed from the official, false history of religion.
Religion appears literalist rather than entheogenic because of reasons that
mainly include (bad and distorting) reasons in various domains such as
political, social, moral, and psychological.

McKenna provides an example in the latter field: he expressed clearly the
proposal that popular spirituality rejects entheogens because people are
afraid of the very intensity and religious experiencing that they think they
are seeking.

Most popular religion functions mainly as a substitutive protection against
actual religious experiencing: “actual religious experiencing is too strong
and upsetting, yet you naturally desire transcendence — the solution is to
kid ourselves by using a harmless substitute, like playing violent video games
or watching violent movies instead of beating on each other with sticks.

Popular religion is a harmless substitute for real religion, which we desire
but are apprehensive of. This may help to explain more convincingly the
puzzling question of why people go to church even though it is in fact so
obviously completely untransformative. Theology books are packed from cover
to cover with talk about Christianity as a religion of powerful inward
transformation, yet nothing could be less transformative, obviously, than
sitting listening to a sermon and eating crackers and drinking grape juice.

Such popular religion is essentially safe placebo substitute religion,
providing an inert placebo to temporarily gratify one’s innate desire for
transcendence and awakening of the higher mind, while protecting from the
travails of actual psychic death and rebirth.

Popular religion is a make-believe to satisfy one’s higher drive while safely
avoiding paying the price and experiencing the downfall — a way to have your
religious drive satisfied, somewhat, for awhile, while keeping your egoic
worldmodel safe and sound and comfortable, at the same time. It’s a religion
of comfortable substitute gratification for drives that would otherwise lead
to uncomfortable actual transformation — because real initiation does have
aspects that are deeply uncomfortable.

Such safe, comfortable, placebo substitute religion staves off that annoying
inner drive toward actual transcendence. Ken Wilber’s early book The Atman
Project explains this drive and futile, temporary substitution. I would
define Boomeritis as being exactly this placebo religiosity, rather than some
nebulous psychology-speak like Wilber’s vague label “narcissism”.

Most spirituality is placebo religion, a substitute to protect the egoic mind
from ego death which would happen in actual, real, genuine religion. The
issue or right move isn’t one from “religion” to “spirituality”. The way
those are contrasted usually means rejecting the lowest form of religion and
embracing a somewhat higher (middle) level of religion.

We could describe this more accurately as progressing from substitute religion
to substitute spirituality to real religion. Today’s “spirituality” is
nothing but substitute, literalist, supernaturalist religion minus the
supernatural and authoritarian elements; it doesn’t have anything more
positive to contribute than the official/literalist/supernaturalist versions
of the religions.

Like Protestantism was created largely by subtracting from an often-empty
Catholicism, so was today’s “spirituality” created largely by subtracting from
Protestantism, and then sprinkling on some decoration. Today’s “spirituality”
isn’t significantly more transformative than official literalism; at best, it
is less inauthentic, rather than more authentic.

Even mysticism, as officially portrayed in the regular Christian books,
wouldn’t be significantly more transformative than the official religion of
supernaturalist literalism, ceremonies and sermons. I don’t intend to
disparage people who have used entheogens and respect them as fully legitimate
and chose to meditate without them.

It’s a lie that non-augmented meditation is more legitimate than entheogens.
It’s a false history to claim that entheogens were deviant rather than
essential and central within the best part of a religious tradition. The
official literalists would claim that entheogens are the worst part of their
religious tradition, contributing only negatively; but actually, entheogens
are the best and most definitive part of a religious tradition.

To gain one degree of authenticity, leave the literalists and go to the
mystics; to gain two degrees, leave the anti-entheogen mystics and go to the
entheogenic mystics. Then you will have arrived at the heart, origin, and
foundation of the religion, joining the true hidden Church of which the
literalist church is a poor imitation.

Someone told me that he liked Jewish mystic contemplation until it actually
started to succeed at producing cognitive changes — then it was uncomfortable
and frightening, so he quit.

I’d be satisfied if today’s spiritualists would admit that they are
apprehensive of the negative effects of the actual transformative religious
state of cognition, and are knowingly and intentionally settling for a lite,
safe, comforting, denatured, domesticated, neutered, ersatz, make-believe,
cargo-cult, placebo, substitute version of religion — one designed to satisfy
one’s natural thirst for transcendence, without providing any actual
transcendence, which includes uncomfortable aspects.

As usual, prohibition complicates and distorts the picture — some people
would like to use entheogens or wish others would be allowed to use them, but
are forced to settle like Grof for far less effective and reliable triggers of
the mystic state, such as meditation. Prohibition promotes disparagement of
entheogens and treating them as isolated, unfortunate deviations within
religious traditions.

Prohibition, official literalist religion, and popular spirituality all work
together to distort and suppress the role of entheogens in religious history
and to strongly disparage their use.

This widespread systematic distortion and suppression helps to explain how
we’ve ended up with the opposite of the truth, bolstering the literalist
theory of the origin and development of religions, which only serves to
obscure history and block actual religious transformation, when we should be
uncovering the entheogenic theory of the origin of religions.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1392 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
This proposal can be called “the entheogenic theory of the origin of
religions<<<<<


This is intersting to read, because to succintly state there is such
a thing as the “entheogenic theory of religion,” has as you are
saying has not completely cystallized, except in a wide variety of
suggestions from various scholars.

Interesting you are using this same exact phrase I have been using
to Buddhists for quite a while.

I have been compiling a list of people who have been suggesting this
idea. The list is growing.

When I first took basic Comparative Religion class in the 9th of
10th grade I had three books assigned. One by Huston Smith, one by
RA Zechner and one by Joseph Campbell. I realized later, that all
three of these “scholar’s scholars” had suggested, in those pages
and in later works or interviews one can find online, this
Entheogenic basis to religion. Gradually in my mind, this
phrase, “Entheogenic Origin of Religions,” began to formulate. Now
I see I am not the only person using this phrase exactly.

On a simplistic level, we have some basic choices as to which model
of explanatory thinking we like or believe.

1. Divinity, divine beings, messiahs, Buddhas, Special Gurus.
2. Space Aliens, Ancient astronauts etc.
3. Entheogenic theory of religion

The funny thing, is that of these three choices….the Entheogenic
Theory of relgions, is the most logical and the least speculative or
superstitious….although people will beg to differ. it appears
that most people are shocked and offended upon hearing that religion
actually comes from eating plants. They would prefere to believe in
Divine Omnipotent beings, specially chosen messengers, or
intervention by Aliens. I find this ultimately humorous.

I am trying to locate the quote from Albert Einstein, where he
implied that religion had an entheogenic basis. I think this view
has been there and passed over or not crystllized. Clearly, someone
like McKenna or Leary of course believed it but maybe they didn’t
propose it as directly as it needs to be proposed.

Huston Smith definately said it, So did RA Zechner, but in more of a
anthropological way. Many others as well. I know that I myself
have said it many times to people over the last 39 years, but really
only in the past 5 years have I began to see it in terms of a
specific or formal “theory,” that needs to be officially postulated
academically. I think even the suggestion of this being a “theory,”
implies the possiblity that it is possibly not true. Afterall the
word “theory,” implies soemthing that needs testing or proof, when
in reality, I had all the proof of this I’d personally ever need,
when I was 19 years old. So to postulate this theory, one is really
attempting to convince others in an academic mode.




dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1393 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
>>>>>>>As a purist entheogenist, I argue that religion has
always “really” been about entheogens and not literalist elements.
Much of the work of paradigm definition concerns defining what
exactly is meant by that “really”. This includes addressing the
question not of *whether* drugs were used in Christianity or other
religions, but only *how commonly* and how influentially or how
importantly.

A purist entheogenist theory of the origin of religion can be a
purist entheogenic theory of what all religions are about and how
they started. By “purist”, I mean emphatically and definitely
rejecting the literalist explanations of the origin of
religions. “Purist entheogenist” means an entirely entheogenic, and
not at all a literalist, model of the origin of the religions.<<<<<


This is clearly delineated and well defined. It can also be
admitted that altered states, can apparently also come from severe
disruptive forces, not necessarily involving the use of entheogenic
plants. Near Death experiences, severe austerities, such as long
term fasting and meditation, may alter brain chemistry and produce
similar effects, yet it seems logical to assume that this is too
impractical and uncontrolled, to be considered as a replacement for
entheogen use.

My last reply mentioned three general models:

1. Divinity, divine beings, messiahs, Buddhas, Special Gurus.
2. Space Aliens, Ancient astronauts etc.
3. Entheogenic theory of religion

I failed to add one last general theory i usually add to this list:

4. Schizophrenia.

I worked 18 years in the deepest Psych backwards and heard many
kinds of ideations. It is also of interest to differentiate between
schizophrenic visons and actual “religious,” visions. There is of
course a biological connection, but the inherent inability of
schizophrenics to process things in a stable fashion seems to be a
glaring difference between a schizophrenic and a person who has had
profound Entheogenic experiences or experiences during austerity
practices coupled with deep and prolonged meditation.

Two other factors that I keep returning to, is first, that in my own
entheogen experiences, there was a period when I believed my
experiences were “special.” That I was somehow different from
others. While my friends in the sixties would drop acid and roll
donuts across the floor at Winchells Donuts, I was going through a
distinct “religious process.” Following meditation manuals. So it
is true that a phase of entheogen experience, bolstered the
perception of Messiahship. For me that was only a brief, almost
mechanical phase, I passed through. I can see how a person in the
past who may for instance, have accidentally ingested entheogens,
would declare themselves to be a “Messiah,” and think they had
become a divine messenger. Some schizophrenics also seem to be
locked into this kind of specialness.

Secondly, I return to the idea that in my own experiences I finally
went beyond the dualities and began to sense the mechanical nature
of these archetypal religious experiences. That was when I began to
see that my inner experiences were more mechanical regurgitations of
imprinted imagery/imprints, and biological phenomena, rather then
actual signs of divinity or special enlightenments.

Thus, the idea that these experiences are “divine,” was replaced by
the idea that they are simply causal processes at work, that can be
explained in a moore advanced, scientific way.

I found also that in my own experiences when my skeptical mind would
ask skeptical questions, of myself, during these intense states,
such as trying to analyse “who is this self or voice talking in my
mind” or “if this is really the milky way, then where is the sun?”
it would be at those times I would find the workings of the extremes
of the dualities—thus pointing me to find the “middle way.”

One last point I would like to mention before I head off to work, is
that besides the Entheogenic theory of religion, there is also
another, very connected point regarding the origins of religion. It
is how ancient peoples looked at the sky, while in enthogenic states
and the movement of celestial bodies and how they named these bodies
and saw them as gods and beings, as one sees imagery in clouds, but
in a more intense way, attributing to these celestial movements, as
god beings going to war, having intercourse, unseating one god for
another and the image of a giant, turning, Celestial mandala that
was one with consciousness, as in the “Hamlets mill” theory of de
Santillana and Von Dechend.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1394 From: wrmspirit Date: 12/03/2003
Subject: words
Although poetry is not encouraged here and that is respected, they still are
words that come from deep within…..This one is shared in reflecting upon
world events.

More often than not,
in the midst of earthquake ruins,
where shattered glass
is scattered everywhere,
there remains a doorframe standing,
for eyes to remember
the threshold.



Norma
Group: egodeath Message: 1395 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Postings are off-topic if not tied-in to main topics
Poetry is off-topic and not allowed unless there is an *explicit*,
comprehensible tie-in to the stated topics. For example, acid-rock lyrics
without analysis are off-topic. Acid-rock lyrics *with* specific and clear
commentary connecting them to the forum topics are on-topic.

Poetry can be included in postings, but in most cases, there needs to be
accompanying prose commentary.

A posting is off-topic if it doesn’t state what the tie-in it has to the
in-scope discussion topics. Postings must clearly and comprehensibly state
their relevance to ego death, personal control, mystic experiencing, and the
other intended topics.

This discussion group was never intended for open-ended reflection on world
events, particularly not *unspecified* world events. That would be a
worst-case posting. It would be better, though still probably off-topic, if
such a posting stated what events were intended, and preferably, included URLs
for further information.

Off-topic postings are subject to deletion from the Web-based archives.
Please tell me what I can possibly do to make the posting rules any clearer.
I am not going to rigidly enforce the rules, that’s not the first line of
action for guiding a discussion group. The first thing moderators should do
is be absolutely crystal clear, with no room for misunderstanding, about the
scope of the group and requirements for postings.

The first person to blame for off-topic postings is the moderator, for not
making the guidelines clear enough. I will make the posting guidelines much
clearer and more stringent — rather that taking action on moderating
individual postings.

If open-ended commentary on general world events were to be considered
on-topic here, the discussion group would lose too much focus, and I may as
well post all those drug policy reform postings I’m often tempted to post. I
have to remind myself that this group I started was never intended as an
activist forum discussing drug policy reform as a topic unto itself.

I’m restricting what I post here, and everyone else should to, because that is
the founding vision for the group; otherwise, it will become just another
social hangout accomplishing no particular goal. If people want to comment on
world events independently of the ego-death topics, they will find it more
enjoyable in other discussion groups.

This is a strictly on-topic discussion group. I will make this *absolutely*
clear in the posting rules, and may even go so far as to moderate off-topic
postings. It should already be clear enough that any topic is allowed *if* it
is *explicitly* tied into the defined topics. Every two weeks, this is stated
in an automated posting: “It is possible to write on most any topic and have
it be relevant for this Egodeath discussion group if you show how the posting
is related to the in-scope topics for this discussion group.

This group is not formally moderated, but it is consistently focused on the
defined topics, including peripheral topics if the writer explicitly connects
them to the core topics.”

I have now reasonably clarified my vision for this group and the concomitant
requirements for posting. This issue does warrant the serious reflection I
have given it; online discussion is complex and it can be a challenge to have
*productive* discussion that advances knowledge and understanding, rather than
just having random discussion that goes to no planned and focused and
structured destination, or neglects to integrate with the main goals of the
discussion group.

I may clarify the posted posting rules, but I’m not going to give this subject
more consideration. These are not difficult posting requirements to meet. If
you don’t care for the group’s focused vision and the necessary, concomitant
posting rules, start your own group and post there instead — I did, and I’m
glad I did. It is not time for me to be impatient about these points; it is
time for me to make up my mind about group policy and vision and commit to
upholding it.

I should have foreseen this challenge and prevented it from arising —
discussion groups related to mystic-state insight are, as a rule, dominated by
unfocused activity rather than structured, focused, goal-oriented activity.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1396 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Must theorize far more forcefully to disrupt the new status quo
Mushrooms and Mankind: The Impact of Mushrooms on Human Consciousness and
Religion
James Arthur
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1585091510

The Psychedelic Sacrament: Manna, Meditation, and Mystical Experience
Daniel Merkur
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089281862X

Zig Zag Zen: Buddhism and Psychedelics
Allan Hunt Badiner (Editor), Alex Grey (Editor), Stephen Batchelor, Huston
Smith
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0811832864


Michael wrote:
>>Who before me has made a general proposal that the real meaning and origin
of all the religions is entheogenic?

James Arthur wrote:
>I published the following at http://www.jamesarthur.net in 1997:

>”Information on this space explores the possibilities and evidence supporting
the concept that the unique states produced by these plants are intricately
connected to the development of mankind and that the plants have multiple
connections to the evolution of religious thought and symbolism on our planet.
… Every indigenous culture used these plants and each culture had a person
or group of people they looked to for spiritual leadership and they were the
plant-knowers (among the myriad of names you can ascribe to them). … The
Amanita muscaria mushroom can be found at the roots of most of the religious
writings our planet has to offer. … These writings have dealt with the use
of such substances by spiritual practitioners in most every religion formed on
the planet.”

>Does this seem vague? Am I not clearly stating that the origins of religion
is the use of drugs?


Not as clearly as is needed in this foolish, upside-down era that habitually
forces ideas into the status-quo framework unless jarringly awakened and
interrupted. Your points need to be greatly amplified. The main point I am
trying to magnify and amplify more than has been done previously is that
*even* the main religions, *even* in their later development, *not only* in
their earliest expression, involved, in a very important way and to a very
important extent, the use of entheogenic plants.

For example, Amanita and likely other psychoactives were not only used in some
of the various diverse groups which eventually coalesced into Christianity,
but were also used by some groups and individuals in Christendom during all
later periods up to and including today’s American Christianity, forming what
certainly should be considered a venerable ongoing tradition, even if
semi-suppressed.

My recent emphasis on the need for emphasis concerns my resolution on the
delicate subject of the legitimacy of meditation on today’s popular
spirituality. It was hard to find a way to pound home a certain forceful
rejection and condemnation of meditation, while also doing so in a viable,
reasonable way.

Common thinking keeps on reverting to ordinary ways of considering the role of
meditation versus entheogens, and it was time for someone to stop and shout
“No, no, no! Enough! That’s wrong, and I must insist more clearly than clear
that it is deeply wrong, the opposite of the truth.” There is a great
difference between simply stating truth, and clearly and effectively
communicating truth.

These points about the presence of entheogens must be pushed home far more
forcefully, far more broadly, far more emphatically. We’ve got to forcefully
disrupt the status quo, which is reflected in the book Zig Zag Zen. Sure, Zig
Zag Zen has a little, it touches on the point that entheogens weren’t entirely
lacking from all of the Buddhist groups — but that’s the problem, that
tepidness, that *imbalance*.

The status quo that we must battle with all our energy to overthrow now is the
Huston Smith types who gently assert that entheogens were present in the most
ancient origins of ancient religion, and are a valid simulation of meditation
that should be considered as legitimate and authentic as meditation. To hell
with that imbalanced picture! With friends of entheogens so tepid as that,
who needs enemies?

Quit all the excuses and apologetics and just look, in Zen reality-attuned
fashion: *clearly* and *obviously*, New Age American Buddhist Meditation is
placebo bullshit pretending to be the real thing, when obviously it’s nothing
of the sort. Entheogens are the real method; meditation is merely an
adjunct — *not* the other way around like Zig Zag Zen and all the rest of the
old status quo scholarly “defenders” of entheogens would have it!

It takes a certain boldness and shaking oneself awake to throw off the
dogmatic slumber of humble respect for meditation. Screw meditation! It can
jump off a cliff! It is effectively an obstruction to actual intense
religious experiencing. It doesn’t require that one try meditation before
earning the right to reach this inevitable conclusion. The most elementary
and simple reasoning in the world shows it.

The emperor of meditation has no clothes, just look and see. Almost everyone
reports that *meditation doesn’t work* as a way of triggering intense
religious experiencing, while almost everyone reports that entheogens work
very well to trigger this.

Only the most stick-in-the-mud apologists for repressive, evasive orthodoxy
could possibly hold that meditation is more effective for triggering intense
mystic experiencing — in fact, even the most obstinately in-denial
anti-entheogen meditation proponents are not so utterly foolish as to claim as
much — instead, like weasels and eels, they play a cheap shell game of
redefining the goal.

They say “Ok, we admit that entheogens totally run circles around meditation,
toward the goal of triggering the intense mystic state. Then we’ll save face
and prestige by conceding that ground and claiming that we didn’t want it
anyway. Now we’ll redefine the goal of meditation in a way so that we’ll be
unaccountable. So, the new purpose of meditation, is, um, mindfulness and
lovingkindness, yeah, that’s the new story!

Meditation is way more effective than entheogens for this one true spiritual
goal, of gaining in mindfulness and lovingkindness.” That’s the low, pathetic
argument the obstinate stick-in-the-mud Buddhists have stooped to in the book
Zig Zag Zen, associated with Tricycle magazine. It is high time the
entheogenists cry out, What total, stinking bullshit, deliberately shifting
the goal of meditation to a nebulous, vague, New Age empty-speak that could
never possibly be measurable and accountable.

That’s just as bad as the Christians. How dare these American New Age
Buddhists think they are one bit better than the most fork-tongued Christian
literalist officials who preach about regeneration of the sinner, while
offering exactly nothing but theological verbiage and crackers and grape juice
to effect the regeneration. No wonder the only growing part of Christianity
is the Pentecostals — people have had it with empty, placebo, cargo-cult
Christianity.

If you don’t make a detailed, emphatic, forceful, unambiguous statement that
entheogens are *everywhere* in *all* religions, in *all* eras, you will be
steamrollered by the status quo and absorbed into it just as the feeble
entheogenic scholarly status quo has been eaten alive and absorbed helplessly
into the totally bunk, completely fake and inert false religion of New Age
American Buddhist meditation, or dogmatic meditationism such as falsely taught
by the pandit Ken Wilber.

The Wilberian method *doesn’t work*! Not, at least, by any useful, practical
definition of “work”. Wilber is exactly the same as a Protestant theologian:
he talks about transformation but tells you to attain it by a method that
works so poorly, it actually serves to prevent transformation. He preaches
the Devil’s gospel that salvation is difficult. That’s the most powerful
interpretation of “works salvation”.

Wilber preaches a works salvation in that he says enlightenment is difficult,
slow, intangible, ethereal. Dan Merkur’s Psychedelic Sacrament is essential
for pointing out that there is another view: what in Buddhism is the vajrayana
“lightning path”. There are two gospels, two religions, two attempts at
salvation and enlightenment: the hard path of salvation through works, and the
easy, short, lightning path of salvation through faith, which amounts to
consuming the real, entheogenic flesh of the savior, Dionysus.

When all is said and done, Wilber preaches a false gospel of works-salvation,
like Merkur’s non-entheogenic Jewish mystics with whom he contrasted the
rational, entheogen-using, fast-track, short-meditation-session mystics. My
gospel or teaching is the lightning tradition: enlightenment and salvation are
easy, fast, simple, rational, entheogenic.

The others like Wilber spread another gospel or teaching, the slow, hard,
works tradition: enlightenment is difficult, slow, complicated, beyond
rationality, and non-entheogenic. Wilber has ingested MDMA a few times and he
reports one non-consenting, probably LSD experience in college.

Regardless of his own personal experience with meditation and entheogens, he
only needs to read the massive evidence of the reports, to reach a better
conclusion than he has: the reports clearly indicate that meditation works
very poorly, while entheogens work very well, to produce experiences that
people report as intensely mystical and life-transforming.

So he has to do a complicated, elaborate dance to elucidate in “integral
theory” fashion how entheogens are important, yet much less important than
meditation. Wilber is Mr. Epicycles, starting by building an infinitely
elaborate system, before he has grasped how utterly straightforward, fast,
simple, and easy the bulk of enlightenment is, in the truly traditional
entheogen path.

The straightforward core of effective initiation is completely lost and
scattered in his baroquely comprehensive system. He manages to put
transformation ever beyond reach by approaching it through the works-salvation
stance in which transformation is considered hard, complicated, and slow.

We need to use a much bigger hammer and pound much harder to forge an
entheogen theory of religion that doesn’t get instantly swallowed into the
dominant middle-level religion worldview, that swamps the theory in mediocrity
and defuses and assimilates reductively the immensely effective power of
entheogens compared to meditation and conventional ordinary-state Jungian
psychological mysticism.

Middle-level religion defuses and neuters the entheogenic tradition by damning
it with faint praise and falsely reasserting the meditation path, with its
gospel of slow, lengthy, difficult, rare, non-rational enlightenment. We must
amplify the entheogenic position and theory so that this pattern of absorption
is forcefully and finally disrupted.

We must throw down the gauntlet to the official histories of religion and the
mainstream proponents of meditation and assert that they are totally full of
shit and are telling the opposite of the truth — our mistake has been to play
along with them and affirm their way of painting the picture and balancing its
elements. It’s time to stop playing along with the meditationists and the
official historians of mysticism, and declare that their picture is
*completely false*. The meditation dogma is completely false.

The official mysticism portrayal is completely false — just as the portrayal
of Gnosticism as a later deviation from the original pure Christianity is
completely false.

Researchers overemphasize the presence of the entheogens at the temporal
beginning of the religions, at the expense of pointing out their presence in
the continued later development of the religions.

Your quotes could be interpreted as covering this ground, but they are
abstract and I had to read them twice and hunt down, to bring out, the meaning
that I’m looking for. After reading your site and your book, I did *not* come
away with any idea of a maximal, strong hypothesis that psychoactives have
been a thriving, though beleaguered, ongoing de-facto tradition from the start
of Christianity to present-day Christianity.

To communicate your ideas you need to express your points vividly — the
quotes are not a vivid expression of the radical proposal that, say, the
Christian mystics were tripping on Datura, that the Central American Catholic
indigenous were integrating entheogenic visions into Catholic iconography.
You convey your points about Amanita Christmas very clearly — there is no way
someone could read you without coming away with Amanita=Christmas.

But it is too easy to read you without coming away with “Christianity in all
eras = Amanita”.

The quotes below don’t clearly express the maximal entheogenic theory of
religion: that essentially all religions have always really been about
entheogens, from the start through their later developmental eras, and never
were really held to be about literalism.

A most fascinating revelation is that all civilizations always held the earth
to be round; it was never held to be flat — we were just *told* by
self-aggrandizing 19th-century science-promoter/propagandists that we were the
first to not hold backward views — like white man claiming to discover
medicinal drugs, when he’s really just co-opted timeless indigenous plant use.

To make progress in this field, we must almost overstate the case, such as
overstating it and then clarifying and qualifying.

Your quotes below, by themselves, are too genteel, soft-spoken, and complex to
push the point home that Christian mystics of the Middle Ages were tripping on
psychoactive plants, and that Christian theology is actually based on the
intense mystic altered state induced by entheogens, more importantly than it
is based on any other sources such as non-augmented flagellation or
contemplation.

I think we must consider Middle Ages Christianity and its equivalent in other
religions as three populations: the officials, the mystics, and the populace.
Who used entheogens? Most mystics, many of the populace, and some officials.

We must do better than merely asserting that the temporal “origin” of
“religion” is drugs. Entheogen religion researchers must claim *far* more
ground, in the number of eras and in the number of religions covered by the
theory.

Both the origin and all of the later eras of all the religions, certainly
including Christianity, Judaism, Hellenistic mysteries, ancient
philosophy-religion, indigenous religion and shamanism, Islam, Hinduism,
Buddhism, Mormonism, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestantism, *all*
contained the venerable de-facto tradition of using psychoactive plants to
trigger intense mystic-state experiencing, and that *all* the literalist
history embodied in the religious stories is entirely allegorical mythic
metaphor expressing the psychological and cognitive phenomena experienced
during the entheogenic mystic altered state.

Entheogens were used routinely; they were ever-present and *not* just at the
origin — so the literalist officials today cannot use the dispensationalist
cop-out of saying, “Well, the founders or early heretics used these, but these
plants have no proper place in our later tradition.” Gentle qualified
statements that there were some plants at the beginning leave the literalist
officials far too much weasel-room.

This is why we have yet to express the maximal theory in a way that
successfully communicates it forcefully and unambiguously.

It has been hard working up, forcefully enough, these ideas, pointing out in
fiery detail with vivid condemnation just how intensely and radically opposite
of the truth the official portrayal of the history of the religions is.

We’ve got to light the entheogen theory on fire, really highlight and
emphasize it, stop soft-pedaling it, come out and clearly make a very forceful
statement — taking all of your statements several notches up and expanding
them several degrees to emphatically cover all religions, all eras — and only
after, qualify and smooth out the assertions. I don’t think you have
explicitly, effectively expressed the maximal entheogen theory.

It’s too easy to read your quotes and still discount entheogen use as safely
limited, scattered deviations that happened at a few points in the past.
That’s too amenable with the official story — “Oh, those were just isolated
heresies that sometimes popped up here or there, out on the far periphery —
never mind those, they aren’t important to the core tradition.”

We need to emphasize more the *continuity* and *ubiquity* of *many*
entheogenic plants in practically *all* the religions, even in the extreme of
Middle Ages Catholicism. Many more Christians — officials, mystics, and
populace — were aware of the entheogenic nature and essence of theology and
Christian myth, than the 20th Century modern-era mainstream assumed.

To put forth a new paradigm, one must show a new balance of emphasis of
various points. The maximal entheogen theory of religion would be expressed
more in your quotes if they compensated more for today’s biased assumptions.
The reigning bias that I’m out to overthrow by framing the maximal theory with
a new balance of emphases is the recent assumption that entheogens were
present at the origin of Christianity but not in its later development.

I’m encouraged in this change of emphasis by Dan Merkur’s study of entheogens
in later Judaism, not just in ancient days of the early scriptures. I have
never read, as I recall, any proposal that the Christian mystics used
entheogens — except by implication in the article about the lily as Datura in
Entheos journal.

If you or anyone has written that, it failed to make a conscious impression on
my thinking, and needs to be hammered home as effectively as your Amanita
Christmas research — at this point, all that’s needed is a crystal clear
proposal, showing the general plausibility, not evidence toward proving it.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1397 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Definition of ‘theory’
>After all the word “theory,” implies something that needs testing or proof,
… So to postulate this theory [the entheogen theory of the origin of
religion], one is really attempting to convince others in an academic mode.

That’s not as true as you say.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theory

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or
phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely
accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. The
branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted
principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician
who had never studied theory. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic
view of a branch of mathematics. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision
based on experience rather than theory. A belief or principle that guides
action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the
theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime. An assumption
based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture. [Late Latin theria,
from Greek theri, from theros, spectator : probably the, a viewing + -oros,
seeing (from horn, to see).][F. th[‘e]orie, L. theoria, Gr. ? a beholding,
spectacle, contemplation, speculation, fr. ? a spectator, ? to see, view. See
Theater.]

1. A doctrine, or scheme of things, which terminates in speculation or
contemplation, without a view to practice; hypothesis; speculation.

Note: “This word is employed by English writers in a very loose and improper
sense. It is with them usually convertible into hypothesis, and hypothesis is
commonly used as another term for conjecture. The terms theory and theoretical
are properly used in opposition to the terms practice and practical. In this
sense, they were exclusively employed by the ancients; and in this sense, they
are almost exclusively employed by the Continental philosophers.” –Sir W.
Hamilton.

2. An exposition of the general or abstract principles of any science; as, the
theory of music.

3. The science, as distinguished from the art; as, the theory and practice of
medicine.

4. The philosophical explanation of phenomena, either physical or moral; as,
Lavoisier’s theory of combustion; Adam Smith’s theory of moral sentiments.

Atomic theory, Binary theory, etc. See under Atomic, Binary, etc.

Syn: Hypothesis, speculation.

Usage: Theory, Hypothesis. A theory is a scheme of the relations subsisting
between the parts of a systematic whole; an hypothesis is a tentative
conjecture respecting a cause of phenomena.

n 1: an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of
circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; “true in fact and
theory” 2: a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain
certain facts or phenomena; “he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later
was accepted in chemical practices” [syn: hypothesis, possibility] 3: a belief
that can guide behavior; “the architect has a theory that more is less”; “they
killed him on the theory that dead men tell no tales”
Group: egodeath Message: 1398 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
Most recently I’m emphasizing “the entheogenic theory of the origin *and
ongoing development* of religions”.

>This is intersting to read, because to succintly state there is such
>a thing as the “entheogenic *theory* of religion,” has as you are
>saying has not completely cystallized, except in a wide variety of
>suggestions from various scholars.

Right, it hasn’t formed as a clear system.

>Huston Smith, RA Zechner, Joseph Campbell … suggested this
>Entheogenic basis to religion.

But Zaehner is a Catholic official, committed to fitting drugs into his
official Catholic framework, entailing — and this is the real problem to
battle now — taking every opportunity to disparage entheogens without being
caught making any statements that are so blatantly false that his efforts
backfire.

For example, if you preach orthodoxy and insist that entheogens never produce
any experience that is in any way mystic, you’d be dismissed as an
embarrassment who is inadvertantly calling orthodoxy into doubt. That stance
would imply that the only way to deny the potency of entheogens is by throwing
away all credibility, and willfully ignoring what is plain to everyone.

He knows it is hopeless to deny the effectiveness of entheogens, and that
doing something that willfully reality-denying would call *all* of his dogma
into question as being nothing but propaganda.

Zen, Drugs, and Mysticism
R.C. Zaehner
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0819172669


I’d like to see a quote from Einstein.


>On a simplistic level, we have some basic choices as to which model of
explanatory thinking we like or believe.
>
>1. Divinity, divine beings, messiahs, Buddhas, Special Gurus.
>2. Space Aliens, Ancient astronauts etc.
>3. Entheogenic theory of religion

You leave out the most important one, that’s currently the most effectively
deceiving position: New Age American Buddhist entheogen-disparaging
meditationism, and the Jungian/Campbellian myth-psychology-archetype theory
that myth reflects mundane, ordinary-state pychology.

The supernatural paradigm and the crackpot paradigm are not nearly as serious
a threat to the entheogen theory of religion as the tepid, mediocre,
middle-level popular “spirituality” that’s as empty and misguided as liberal
Protestantism’s reduction of religion to mundane ethics. The most serious
challenge to real religion is the religion which *seems* most credible but
stops just short of delivering the goods.

It is disturbing how the best books on religious myth are so much better than
literalist religion that they *seem* to deliver truth, without actually
delivering it. They portray myth as allegory for mental phenomena, and they
are correct in that, but still they utterly lack religion proper: myth is
allegory for *altered-state* mental phenomena, particularly of the
entheogen-triggered intense mystic altered state — *not* of ordinary-state
mundane mental processing.



>The funny thing, is that of these three choices, the Entheogenic Theory of
religions is the most logical and the least speculative or
>superstitious….although people will beg to differ.

Yes, that’s a point I’ve tried to emphasize, that the least speculative and
most *plausible* theory of religion… especially, *the simplest* theory of
religion, is that it reflects entheogenic mental phenomena and insights. I
worship simplicity and follow that star where it leads my thinking.

For example, whatever you think of the no-free-will hypothesis, it’s a strong
candidate for being the *simplest* explanation, and simply equating ego death
and rebirth with the experience of the temporary suspension of the sense of
free will may be controversial, but one thing for sure: it’s the simplest
theory possible, sort of like Zen perception is the simplest perception
possible — so simple, it’s beyond the capability of the normal, busy mind.

I need to amplify how much I’m against the mid-20th Century psychology
paradigm or interpretive framework. Psychology *claims* to offer a logical
alternative to religion, but it doesn’t. Consider Wilber’s definition of
Boomeritis as “narcissism” — that’s meaningless psychology-speak, where the
Psychology conceptual framework actively impedes understanding, rather than
providing understanding.


>It appears
>that most people are shocked and offended upon hearing that religion
>actually comes from eating plants. They would prefere to believe in
>Divine Omnipotent beings, specially chosen messengers, or
>intervention by Aliens.


Or, even more importantly lately, they would prefer to believe that religion
comes from thirty years of long meditation sessions, with a success rate of a
fraction of a percent. This is the real devil that we need to turn our sights
on now.

Ken Wilber advocates this view, rather than the entheogen initiation view
which holds that for all intents and purposes, five to ten entheogen sessions,
combined with a college course on systematic theory of ego death, brings a
mind to perfection and sacrifices the child-thinking for adult-thinking —
with any remaining development being nonessential refinement.


>I find this ultimately humorous.
>
>I am trying to locate the quote from Albert Einstein, where he
>implied that religion had an entheogenic basis. I think this view
>has been there and passed over or not crystllized. Clearly, someone
>like McKenna or Leary of course believed it but maybe they didn’t
>propose it as directly as it needs to be proposed.


Absolutely — the theory needs to be stated much more sweepingly and
forcefully, and today’s new dogmas like meditationism and psychologism need to
be unequivocally rejected and condemned as false and obstructive theories.


>Huston Smith definately said it,


He does everything wrong, stating this case in the standard weak and tepid way
that has enabled the status quo to ignore it — the old 1960s view that
ancient religion and exotic religions had entheogens, but the European
religions didn’t. The 60s advocates of entheogens, in their frenzy to fully
disparage “Christianity”, totally missed out on the opportunity to rewrite the
only history that matters at all, the history of Christianity.

They avoided the only battle that matters at all, and failed to recognize that
Christianity has always been an entheogen-centered religion, in all eras.

Similarly, they painted the dominant entheogen-disparaging, false consensus
view of Buddhist history as well, relegating entheeogens forever to a minor,
minimal bit part in Buddhist tradition, so that like the psychedelic culture’s
co-optation by the establishment, so was the great entheogen tradition in the
two most currently important religions, Christianity and Buddhism, co-opted
once again, as it so often has been, and robbed of its symbolic jewels while
being insulted and relegated by being integrated as a minor deviance, when the
entheogenic tradition completely deserves to be portrayed as the heart, soul,
core, source, and ongoing inspiration of Christianity and Buddhism, per the
maximal entheogenic theory of the origin and later development of the
religions.


>So did RA Zechner, but in more of a anthropological way.

What do you mean by “anthropological”? Zaehner is an official Catholic
theologian committed a-priori to defusing the entheogen threat by diminishing
the stature of entheogens as much as possible.


>Many others as well.

>I know that I myself
>have said it many times to people over the last 39 years, but really
>only in the past 5 years have I began to see it in terms of a
>specific or formal “theory,” that needs to be officially postulated
>academically. I think even the suggestion of this being a “theory,”
>implies the possiblity that it is possibly not true. Afterall the
>word “theory,” implies soemthing that needs testing or proof, when
>in reality, I had all the proof of this I’d personally ever need,
>when I was 19 years old. So to postulate this theory, one is really
>attempting to convince others in an academic mode.


— Michael Hoffman
Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 1399 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Must theorize far more forcefully to disrupt the new status quo
>>>>>Meditation is way more effective than entheogens for this one
true spiritual
goal, of gaining in mindfulness and lovingkindness.” That’s the low,
pathetic
argument the obstinate stick-in-the-mud Buddhists have stooped to in
the book
Zig Zag Zen, associated with Tricycle magazine. It is high time the
entheogenists cry out, What total, stinking bullshit, deliberately
shifting
the goal of meditation to a nebulous, vague, New Age empty-speak
that could
never possibly be measurable and accountable.>>>>

I agree 100%. The weak experiences of meditation and the pious
gurus just have never cut it…..I think what you are saying here is
that you feel that the Gurus who say, “Psychedelics are just a brief
glimpse….that never lasts”…etc. Are just trying to keep their
flock and really have no idea what they are talking about. But, I
will say that meditating on entheogens, produces far more profound
experiences then party people, dropping eveything in site, without
even trying to concentrate. I would say that “meditation” is really
is really a practice meant originally as a way to best use
Entheogens.

Regarding your comment on Huston Smith or others scholars who have
suggested the Entheogenic theory. This is documentary proof that is
useful. I don;t think attcking his stuff is wise because here in
trying to communicate, the Entheogenic Theory of relgion is is great
to have back up from well known people. I see that as
practical….something that would stand up in court more then your
words or my words. Validation of well known scholars only helps the
case…. short of putting LSD in the world’s water supply as a way
to make the point. NO one who is needed to understand this from a
legal, religious or psycholigical point of view will listen to “acid
heads.” It is a good thing to be able to pull out the books and
say, “See what he said…” “You can call us acid heads but what
about him?”

The practical factor will be there, unless you can come up with a
way to aim an Entheogen Raygun at people’ brain and zap them.

dc















— In egodeath, “Michael Hoffman” <mhoffman@e…>
wrote:
> Mushrooms and Mankind: The Impact of Mushrooms on Human
Consciousness and
> Religion
> James Arthur
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1585091510
>
> The Psychedelic Sacrament: Manna, Meditation, and Mystical
Experience
> Daniel Merkur
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089281862X
>
> Zig Zag Zen: Buddhism and Psychedelics
> Allan Hunt Badiner (Editor), Alex Grey (Editor), Stephen
Batchelor, Huston
> Smith
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0811832864
>
>
> Michael wrote:
> >>Who before me has made a general proposal that the real meaning
and origin
> of all the religions is entheogenic?
>
> James Arthur wrote:
> >I published the following at http://www.jamesarthur.net in 1997:
>
> >”Information on this space explores the possibilities and
evidence supporting
> the concept that the unique states produced by these plants are
intricately
> connected to the development of mankind and that the plants have
multiple
> connections to the evolution of religious thought and symbolism on
our planet.
> … Every indigenous culture used these plants and each culture
had a person
> or group of people they looked to for spiritual leadership and
they were the
> plant-knowers (among the myriad of names you can ascribe to
them). … The
> Amanita muscaria mushroom can be found at the roots of most of the
religious
> writings our planet has to offer. … These writings have dealt
with the use
> of such substances by spiritual practitioners in most every
religion formed on
> the planet.”
>
> >Does this seem vague? Am I not clearly stating that the origins
of religion
> is the use of drugs?
>
>
> Not as clearly as is needed in this foolish, upside-down era that
habitually
> forces ideas into the status-quo framework unless jarringly
awakened and
> interrupted. Your points need to be greatly amplified. The main
point I am
> trying to magnify and amplify more than has been done previously
is that
> *even* the main religions, *even* in their later development, *not
only* in
> their earliest expression, involved, in a very important way and
to a very
> important extent, the use of entheogenic plants.
>
> For example, Amanita and likely other psychoactives were not only
used in some
> of the various diverse groups which eventually coalesced into
Christianity,
> but were also used by some groups and individuals in Christendom
during all
> later periods up to and including today’s American Christianity,
forming what
> certainly should be considered a venerable ongoing tradition, even
if
> semi-suppressed.
>
> My recent emphasis on the need for emphasis concerns my resolution
on the
> delicate subject of the legitimacy of meditation on today’s popular
> spirituality. It was hard to find a way to pound home a certain
forceful
> rejection and condemnation of meditation, while also doing so in a
viable,
> reasonable way.
>
> Common thinking keeps on reverting to ordinary ways of considering
the role of
> meditation versus entheogens, and it was time for someone to stop
and shout
> “No, no, no! Enough! That’s wrong, and I must insist more
clearly than clear
> that it is deeply wrong, the opposite of the truth.” There is a
great
> difference between simply stating truth, and clearly and
effectively
> communicating truth.
>
> These points about the presence of entheogens must be pushed home
far more
> forcefully, far more broadly, far more emphatically. We’ve got to
forcefully
> disrupt the status quo, which is reflected in the book Zig Zag
Zen. Sure, Zig
> Zag Zen has a little, it touches on the point that entheogens
weren’t entirely
> lacking from all of the Buddhist groups — but that’s the problem,
that
> tepidness, that *imbalance*.
>
> The status quo that we must battle with all our energy to
overthrow now is the
> Huston Smith types who gently assert that entheogens were present
in the most
> ancient origins of ancient religion, and are a valid simulation of
meditation
> that should be considered as legitimate and authentic as
meditation. To hell
> with that imbalanced picture! With friends of entheogens so tepid
as that,
> who needs enemies?
>
> Quit all the excuses and apologetics and just look, in Zen reality-
attuned
> fashion: *clearly* and *obviously*, New Age American Buddhist
Meditation is
> placebo bullshit pretending to be the real thing, when obviously
it’s nothing
> of the sort. Entheogens are the real method; meditation is merely
an
> adjunct — *not* the other way around like Zig Zag Zen and all the
rest of the
> old status quo scholarly “defenders” of entheogens would have it!
>
> It takes a certain boldness and shaking oneself awake to throw off
the
> dogmatic slumber of humble respect for meditation. Screw
meditation! It can
> jump off a cliff! It is effectively an obstruction to actual
intense
> religious experiencing. It doesn’t require that one try
meditation before
> earning the right to reach this inevitable conclusion. The most
elementary
> and simple reasoning in the world shows it.
>
> The emperor of meditation has no clothes, just look and see.
Almost everyone
> reports that *meditation doesn’t work* as a way of triggering
intense
> religious experiencing, while almost everyone reports that
entheogens work
> very well to trigger this.
>
> Only the most stick-in-the-mud apologists for repressive, evasive
orthodoxy
> could possibly hold that meditation is more effective for
triggering intense
> mystic experiencing — in fact, even the most obstinately in-denial
> anti-entheogen meditation proponents are not so utterly foolish as
to claim as
> much — instead, like weasels and eels, they play a cheap shell
game of
> redefining the goal.
>
> They say “Ok, we admit that entheogens totally run circles around
meditation,
> toward the goal of triggering the intense mystic state. Then
we’ll save face
> and prestige by conceding that ground and claiming that we didn’t
want it
> anyway. Now we’ll redefine the goal of meditation in a way so
that we’ll be
> unaccountable. So, the new purpose of meditation, is, um,
mindfulness and
> lovingkindness, yeah, that’s the new story!
>
> Meditation is way more effective than entheogens for this one true
spiritual
> goal, of gaining in mindfulness and lovingkindness.” That’s the
low, pathetic
> argument the obstinate stick-in-the-mud Buddhists have stooped to
in the book
> Zig Zag Zen, associated with Tricycle magazine. It is high time
the
> entheogenists cry out, What total, stinking bullshit, deliberately
shifting
> the goal of meditation to a nebulous, vague, New Age empty-speak
that could
> never possibly be measurable and accountable.
>
> That’s just as bad as the Christians. How dare these American New
Age
> Buddhists think they are one bit better than the most fork-tongued
Christian
> literalist officials who preach about regeneration of the sinner,
while
> offering exactly nothing but theological verbiage and crackers and
grape juice
> to effect the regeneration. No wonder the only growing part of
Christianity
> is the Pentecostals — people have had it with empty, placebo,
cargo-cult
> Christianity.
>
> If you don’t make a detailed, emphatic, forceful, unambiguous
statement that
> entheogens are *everywhere* in *all* religions, in *all* eras, you
will be
> steamrollered by the status quo and absorbed into it just as the
feeble
> entheogenic scholarly status quo has been eaten alive and absorbed
helplessly
> into the totally bunk, completely fake and inert false religion of
New Age
> American Buddhist meditation, or dogmatic meditationism such as
falsely taught
> by the pandit Ken Wilber.
>
> The Wilberian method *doesn’t work*! Not, at least, by any
useful, practical
> definition of “work”. Wilber is exactly the same as a Protestant
theologian:
> he talks about transformation but tells you to attain it by a
method that
> works so poorly, it actually serves to prevent transformation. He
preaches
> the Devil’s gospel that salvation is difficult. That’s the most
powerful
> interpretation of “works salvation”.
>
> Wilber preaches a works salvation in that he says enlightenment is
difficult,
> slow, intangible, ethereal. Dan Merkur’s Psychedelic Sacrament is
essential
> for pointing out that there is another view: what in Buddhism is
the vajrayana
> “lightning path”. There are two gospels, two religions, two
attempts at
> salvation and enlightenment: the hard path of salvation through
works, and the
> easy, short, lightning path of salvation through faith, which
amounts to
> consuming the real, entheogenic flesh of the savior, Dionysus.
>
> When all is said and done, Wilber preaches a false gospel of works-
salvation,
> like Merkur’s non-entheogenic Jewish mystics with whom he
contrasted the
> rational, entheogen-using, fast-track, short-meditation-session
mystics. My
> gospel or teaching is the lightning tradition: enlightenment and
salvation are
> easy, fast, simple, rational, entheogenic.
>
> The others like Wilber spread another gospel or teaching, the
slow, hard,
> works tradition: enlightenment is difficult, slow, complicated,
beyond
> rationality, and non-entheogenic. Wilber has ingested MDMA a few
times and he
> reports one non-consenting, probably LSD experience in college.
>
> Regardless of his own personal experience with meditation and
entheogens, he
> only needs to read the massive evidence of the reports, to reach a
better
> conclusion than he has: the reports clearly indicate that
meditation works
> very poorly, while entheogens work very well, to produce
experiences that
> people report as intensely mystical and life-transforming.
>
> So he has to do a complicated, elaborate dance to elucidate
in “integral
> theory” fashion how entheogens are important, yet much less
important than
> meditation. Wilber is Mr. Epicycles, starting by building an
infinitely
> elaborate system, before he has grasped how utterly
straightforward, fast,
> simple, and easy the bulk of enlightenment is, in the truly
traditional
> entheogen path.
>
> The straightforward core of effective initiation is completely
lost and
> scattered in his baroquely comprehensive system. He manages to put
> transformation ever beyond reach by approaching it through the
works-salvation
> stance in which transformation is considered hard, complicated,
and slow.
>
> We need to use a much bigger hammer and pound much harder to forge
an
> entheogen theory of religion that doesn’t get instantly swallowed
into the
> dominant middle-level religion worldview, that swamps the theory
in mediocrity
> and defuses and assimilates reductively the immensely effective
power of
> entheogens compared to meditation and conventional ordinary-state
Jungian
> psychological mysticism.
>
> Middle-level religion defuses and neuters the entheogenic
tradition by damning
> it with faint praise and falsely reasserting the meditation path,
with its
> gospel of slow, lengthy, difficult, rare, non-rational
enlightenment. We must
> amplify the entheogenic position and theory so that this pattern
of absorption
> is forcefully and finally disrupted.
>
> We must throw down the gauntlet to the official histories of
religion and the
> mainstream proponents of meditation and assert that they are
totally full of
> shit and are telling the opposite of the truth — our mistake has
been to play
> along with them and affirm their way of painting the picture and
balancing its
> elements. It’s time to stop playing along with the meditationists
and the
> official historians of mysticism, and declare that their picture is
> *completely false*. The meditation dogma is completely false.
>
> The official mysticism portrayal is completely false — just as
the portrayal
> of Gnosticism as a later deviation from the original pure
Christianity is
> completely false.
>
> Researchers overemphasize the presence of the entheogens at the
temporal
> beginning of the religions, at the expense of pointing out their
presence in
> the continued later development of the religions.
>
> Your quotes could be interpreted as covering this ground, but they
are
> abstract and I had to read them twice and hunt down, to bring out,
the meaning
> that I’m looking for. After reading your site and your book, I
did *not* come
> away with any idea of a maximal, strong hypothesis that
psychoactives have
> been a thriving, though beleaguered, ongoing de-facto tradition
from the start
> of Christianity to present-day Christianity.
>
> To communicate your ideas you need to express your points vividly –
– the
> quotes are not a vivid expression of the radical proposal that,
say, the
> Christian mystics were tripping on Datura, that the Central
American Catholic
> indigenous were integrating entheogenic visions into Catholic
iconography.
> You convey your points about Amanita Christmas very clearly —
there is no way
> someone could read you without coming away with Amanita=Christmas.
>
> But it is too easy to read you without coming away
with “Christianity in all
> eras = Amanita”.
>
> The quotes below don’t clearly express the maximal entheogenic
theory of
> religion: that essentially all religions have always really been
about
> entheogens, from the start through their later developmental eras,
and never
> were really held to be about literalism.
>
> A most fascinating revelation is that all civilizations always
held the earth
> to be round; it was never held to be flat — we were just *told* by
> self-aggrandizing 19th-century science-promoter/propagandists that
we were the
> first to not hold backward views — like white man claiming to
discover
> medicinal drugs, when he’s really just co-opted timeless
indigenous plant use.
>
> To make progress in this field, we must almost overstate the case,
such as
> overstating it and then clarifying and qualifying.
>
> Your quotes below, by themselves, are too genteel, soft-spoken,
and complex to
> push the point home that Christian mystics of the Middle Ages were
tripping on
> psychoactive plants, and that Christian theology is actually based
on the
> intense mystic altered state induced by entheogens, more
importantly than it
> is based on any other sources such as non-augmented flagellation or
> contemplation.
>
> I think we must consider Middle Ages Christianity and its
equivalent in other
> religions as three populations: the officials, the mystics, and
the populace.
> Who used entheogens? Most mystics, many of the populace, and some
officials.
>
> We must do better than merely asserting that the temporal “origin”
of
> “religion” is drugs. Entheogen religion researchers must claim
*far* more
> ground, in the number of eras and in the number of religions
covered by the
> theory.
>
> Both the origin and all of the later eras of all the religions,
certainly
> including Christianity, Judaism, Hellenistic mysteries, ancient
> philosophy-religion, indigenous religion and shamanism, Islam,
Hinduism,
> Buddhism, Mormonism, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, and
Protestantism, *all*
> contained the venerable de-facto tradition of using psychoactive
plants to
> trigger intense mystic-state experiencing, and that *all* the
literalist
> history embodied in the religious stories is entirely allegorical
mythic
> metaphor expressing the psychological and cognitive phenomena
experienced
> during the entheogenic mystic altered state.
>
> Entheogens were used routinely; they were ever-present and *not*
just at the
> origin — so the literalist officials today cannot use the
dispensationalist
> cop-out of saying, “Well, the founders or early heretics used
these, but these
> plants have no proper place in our later tradition.” Gentle
qualified
> statements that there were some plants at the beginning leave the
literalist
> officials far too much weasel-room.
>
> This is why we have yet to express the maximal theory in a way that
> successfully communicates it forcefully and unambiguously.
>
> It has been hard working up, forcefully enough, these ideas,
pointing out in
> fiery detail with vivid condemnation just how intensely and
radically opposite
> of the truth the official portrayal of the history of the
religions is.
>
> We’ve got to light the entheogen theory on fire, really highlight
and
> emphasize it, stop soft-pedaling it, come out and clearly make a
very forceful
> statement — taking all of your statements several notches up and
expanding
> them several degrees to emphatically cover all religions, all
eras — and only
> after, qualify and smooth out the assertions. I don’t think you
have
> explicitly, effectively expressed the maximal entheogen theory.
>
> It’s too easy to read your quotes and still discount entheogen use
as safely
> limited, scattered deviations that happened at a few points in the
past.
> That’s too amenable with the official story — “Oh, those were
just isolated
> heresies that sometimes popped up here or there, out on the far
periphery —
> never mind those, they aren’t important to the core tradition.”
>
> We need to emphasize more the *continuity* and *ubiquity* of *many*
> entheogenic plants in practically *all* the religions, even in the
extreme of
> Middle Ages Catholicism. Many more Christians — officials,
mystics, and
> populace — were aware of the entheogenic nature and essence of
theology and
> Christian myth, than the 20th Century modern-era mainstream
assumed.
>
> To put forth a new paradigm, one must show a new balance of
emphasis of
> various points. The maximal entheogen theory of religion would be
expressed
> more in your quotes if they compensated more for today’s biased
assumptions.
> The reigning bias that I’m out to overthrow by framing the maximal
theory with
> a new balance of emphases is the recent assumption that entheogens
were
> present at the origin of Christianity but not in its later
development.
>
> I’m encouraged in this change of emphasis by Dan Merkur’s study of
entheogens
> in later Judaism, not just in ancient days of the early
scriptures. I have
> never read, as I recall, any proposal that the Christian mystics
used
> entheogens — except by implication in the article about the lily
as Datura in
> Entheos journal.
>
> If you or anyone has written that, it failed to make a conscious
impression on
> my thinking, and needs to be hammered home as effectively as your
Amanita
> Christmas research — at this point, all that’s needed is a
crystal clear
> proposal, showing the general plausibility, not evidence toward
proving it.
>
>
> — Michael Hoffman
> http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and
rebirth
> experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1400 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
We are always dealing with the general connotation of a word, when
communciating to people. Non-experienmced people are by far a
majority. The word “theory,” even among scinetists, generally means
something being asserted, that is not yet accepted as fact, because
it is not yet proven to them. Of course the only way to REALLY
prove this “theory,” is for people to have the experience
themselves. Then they know it is no longer just a “theory.”
Whatever technical definitions of a word, one may use, if the mind
set orf the person you are communicating with, uses the word to
mean a theory that is proposed but not accepted yet, then they want
to see proof. In this case all the documentary or theoretical
proofs are just considered speculative, unles they too can share the
experience. For instance, trying to explain gravity to people who
always lived in weightlessness, would require many words, and
formulas, but not until someone falls under the sway of gravity how
could they understand it? Very few people are equipped to
understand what they have not yet experienced, no matter how
exceptional the explanations. To ask people to accept what one says
on blind faith, is what most religions have tried to do.

For a person with a little bit of help and guiding, to totally
change their view about entheogens, would require a large dose and a
little bravery and seeking mind. First find brave people, then find
those with a seeking mind. That is asking alot from the kind of
population that we fo=ind around us.

Even in the 60’s with many people experimenting, only a small
percentage of those experimenters, 10 years later, would defend the
use of entheogens. I knew many people who had semi-heavy
experiences, but ten years later they were party people doing
budweiser and coke and 20 or 30 years later they repudiate
Entheogens, as though their experiences meant nothing. Some one had
written (I don’t remember who) that 2-4% percent of people who
experiemented with Entheogens in the sixites, had the kind of life
changing experience that they would say were religious experiences.
Most of them, even those who became religious due to LSD experience,
tend to deny that entheogens as just temporary–they buy into the
guru chatter about “real” meditation, or later actually denouce it
as “drug induced,” fantasy.

To me their were many reasons for this. Dosage, polypharmacy–
washing down “acid” with budweisers. Rolling donuts across the floor
at Winchells Donuts instead of focusing while using the entheogen,
distractions, inability to let go of ego, setting, etc. all those
things.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1401 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
>>>>>But Zaehner is a Catholic official, committed to fitting drugs
into his official Catholic framework, entailing — and this is the
real problem to battle now — taking every opportunity to disparage
entheogens without being caught making any statements that are so
blatantly false that his efforts backfire.>>>>>

Of course, Zechner will say that Hinduism and Buddhism was
entheogenic. At least int he case of Hinduism it is easy to prove.
But in the case of Buddhism it is tougher to prove using
documentation, and in the case of Christianity, Judism and Islam is
is even more difficult. At least to people who are inexperienced.

I know its true, but only based on experience. It doesn’t make
Zexhner the enemy, if you can quote that he says those pagan Hindu
religion came from the use of Soma. Well fine. Now show how other
religions came out of the more primitive.

As far as Merker is concerned. His book on Manna just isn;t a s
believable as it would need to be and John Allegro, is still called
a “crank.” Even though we know he was no crank. But take all of
these people as part of the argument and piece together history and
then the documentary case starts to shape up. Even Freud made
comments about Religion having a basis is shamanistic entheogen
use. The rest of their ideations are not as important, except in
that they have credibility to academics or people who think it is
crazy to suggest that religion, came from, “drug use.”

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1402 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Re: Must theorize far more forcefully to disrupt the new status quo
The Status Quo is very diverse in their beloefs. They are busy
dividing themselves into dogma gangs, whether religious gangs,
scientific gangs, psychology gangs, military gangs, Crack gangs,
etc…
To the real Entheogenicist…(lol) it is all the “status quo,” but
each of these persons within each kind of gang speaks different
languages ands have differnt terms.

The task of changing things should first start with the basics that
are accepted, such as “relgious freedom,” at least in most modern
countries that claim they support “religious freedom.” if the idea
that entheogen use is “religious,” is a huge start. Use “political
correctness,” to our advantage for a change.

It would be great if people thought it was “politically incorrect,”
to condemn the use of Entheogens for “religious,” reasons.

To me, even the word “religion,” is just a larvel term, but to the
masses it functions as a
major imprint. We have to use the imprints of society to talk to
society.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1404 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: Buddhist Three Proofs
In Mahayana Buddhism, there is the term, Sansho (Jap.), “The Three
Proofs.” The three are usually called 1.documentary proof,
2.Theoretical proof, 3. Actual proof. It is a basic criteria used to
judge, inferiority or superiority of a teaching.

The third point has been used in many erroneous ways, by what is
being referred to here on this group as low or medium level
religion. In the low level religious point of view, which reflects
the vast majority of believers of religion, Buddhism included,
people may say it is actual proof to increase material wealth, cure
their illness through divine intervention or just synchronistic
occurances and what is perveived as divine interventions. Medium
level religion, then would be referring to the attaining of various
levels of theoretical and psychological understanding, brief
experiences of transcendent states of consciousness which support
the particular religions dogma, or just gaining better self-control
over the stresses of daily life. Actual Proof in high religion,
would not be concerned with proving a particular sectarian view.
Actual Proof would be the actual experience of an altered state of
consiousness as a most comprehensive enlightenment.

Even in entheogenic use, the practitioner may go through low to high
phases of experience, depending on existing conditions, such as
current mindset and theoretical basis, set and setting, prior
experience, dosage, physical and mental preparation, especially
preparatory austerity such as fasting and the existing brain
chemistry, prior to intake of an entheogen, and the basics of yogic
meditation.

Although actual proof is most important, documentary and theoretical
proofs, are important during preparation and especially in
communication to others, during any conversion process. The
conversion process is an entrainment of breaking down the other
person’s existing mindset in order to help prepare the person for to
attain the most earth shaking kind of actual proof.

The level of difficulty of a teaching or its degree of appeal,
whether broad or narrow and how something in presented to another,
in buddhism, relates to another term, “Expedient Means,” a central
point of especially, the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra.

Generally, “expedient means,” called “the buddha’s mysterious and
secret means,” is best understood as a trick used by the “buddha.”
to get people to prepare and practice, by dangling the carrot
of “nirvana.” Once the people were lead to the point of
seeking “nirvana,” then that Nirvana (extinction) goal is removed
and the followers are told, that that was just a trick to get them
to aspire for their own “Buddhahood,” of a more profound kind. In
the Saddharma Pundarika one of the chapters tells a metaphirical
analogy, of a group of travelers on a long and difficult road,
becoming tired and the leader of the group conjures up a “transient
castle,” and points to it and says to the weary travelers, “there’s
not much longer to go. Don’t give up” Because they see the castle
on the horizon, they regain the strength to continue. When they get
there they find the castle is an illusion, but the act of getting
there allows them to achieve the real goal. The expedient of the
transient castle is related to the carrot of Nirvana and instead
of “Nirvana” as extinction, they attain immortality instead.

Another way to understanding the Buddhism way of differentiating
between high and low comes from Chih-I’s (Tien-t’ai)elucidation of
the ten basic Life States. The first 6 life states are the more
common life states of beings, the next four are the
higher, “Buddhahood,” being the tenth. The seventh life state is
the state of learning, the eigth, “Self realization,” the ninth
Bodhisattvaship. The Saddharma Pundarika contains the explanation
that these “three vehicles” are just and expedient as well.

It is difficult to prove with documentary evidence the use of
Entheogens-in buddhist sects, but not impossible. I have found many
documentary reason to believe these people who were the most advance
people in terms of Entheogenic knowledge, in India/Kashmir at the
time (between the 1st through the 4rd century AD) The authors of the
Saddharma Pundarika, are most derfinately those who were working at
the court of King Kanishka and his predecessors and includes,
Nagarjuna the ayurvedic physican and dialectician, Ashvaghosa, the
poet and psychedelic musician, Caraka the ayurvedic physican and
author of the Caraka Samhita of the 80,000 herbs, Patanjali the
apparent author of the Yoga Sutras and other later teachers, such as
Arya Asanga, Vasubandhu and Sthirimati. Tese people were not apart
of the traditon Buddhist orders and their Mahayana Sutras and
writings do not appear in the regular canon, even that which was
compiled by the fourth council whihc was sponsered by Kaniska
himself.

I think that once Mahayana Buddhists are able to break down the
silly belief, that these Mahayana Sutras were words of Gautama, and
begin to realize that the authors of these cosmic sutras, were
entheogenicists, they would be forced to take another look at the
role of entheogens to their faiths.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1405 From: Kevin Date: 13/03/2003
Subject: New Member
Has anyone read, “Breaking Open the Head” by Daniel Pinchbeck.
(A psychedelic Journey into the Heart of Contemporary Shamanism)?

Comments welcomed/

Peace,
Kevin
Group: egodeath Message: 1406 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Psychosis, religious experiencing, and entheogens
Taking entheogens doesn’t automatically or inevitably result in religious
experiences. Entheogens are an extremely strong facilitator of religious
experiences, with a high correlation with religious experiences. Today’s
prohibition situation distorts and reduces the religious potential of
entheogens. Most of what is published about entheogen experiences is by
people who are young and barely educated, and by older people who have had one
or two experiences.

Only when we have a large number of highly educated people who have used
entheogens ten times or more can we start to give religious experiencing
through entheogens a fair chance.

Schizophrenics effectively have a frequent injection of entheogens, so their
mental structure neither stabilizes in the egoic mode nor shifts coherently to
the transcendent mode (two specific mental worldmodels with regard to self,
time, space, and control). The schizophrenic mind doesn’t have multiple
coherent personalities, but rather, dis-integrated and fragmented cognition
that doesn’t amount to even one personality.

The ideal path is from a stable egoic deluded worldmodel, through a series of
loose-cognition sessions, to a stable transcendent worldmodel that retains the
practical use of the egoic deluded worldmodel. The schizophrenic trajectory
is from a mostly stable egoic structure, to an incessant series of loose
cognition episodes, leading not to stable transcendent structure of
worldmodel, but to a chaotic mix of egoic structural fragments and
transcendent structural fragments.

Today’s typical young entheogen users have a stable ego, but don’t move on to
a stable transcendent structure, because of the lack of that higher stable
structure in the general population. Why does the modern era lack the stable
presence of the specific, stable, mental worldmodel among adults? Because of
the lack of entheogens and because of the half-hearted commitment to
rationality.

If you add high eduction, commitment to rationality, and serious use of
entheogens, with a goal of studying mental phenomena including personal
control, religious experiencing and religious insight result. Today, under
these conditions, it takes a particular mindset to use entheogens seriously in
combination with rationality: something like Douglas Hofstadter’s AI/Cognitive
Science approach including the interest in strange loops in consciousness.

At the same time as high worldmodels are lacking and impoverished, and not
integrated with rationality, so are the low worldmodels dominant. Ideally
we’d have the low worldmodel and the high worldmodel available in society.
Instead, the low worldmodel is overdeveloped and shuts out the actual high
worldmodel. Egoic thinking is so totally dominant, even in religion, which is
lowest-level religion or middle-level religion, that it becomes much harder to
break away into higher thinking.


— Michael Hoffman
Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 1407 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
“Theory” has two meanings, as the definitions indicate: “hypothesis”, and
“systematic model”. I’m not so much a philosopher or theologian or mystic, as
a theorist and a constructer of models.


These factors you list are mostly just transient artifacts of a temporary
cultural situation. The culture treated the materials as a toy but as a
serious religious trigger as well. Even though most individuals disparaged
entheogens after using them in the 1960s, the fact remains that religion was
an unsurpassed theme. Also, *always ask* how today’s prohibition is
distorting your apparent data and evidence.

How can anyone know whether “most people” who used entheogens now disparage
them? That’s selective reporting bias. This culture promotes negative public
statements about entheogens, so you’ll hear lots of those, and punishes
positive statements about entheogens, so you’ll not hear many of those.

A list of reasons for entheogen users later disparaging and belittling
entheogens should begin with the most forceful reason: the chilling forces of
prohibition.

— Michael Hoffman
Egodeath.com


>From: rialcnis2000

>We are always dealing with the general connotation of a word, when
>communciating to people. Non-experienmced people are by far a
>majority. The word “theory,” even among scinetists, generally means
>something being asserted, that is not yet accepted as fact, because
>it is not yet proven to them. Of course the only way to REALLY
>prove this “theory,” is for people to have the experience
>themselves. Then they know it is no longer just a “theory.”
>Whatever technical definitions of a word, one may use, if the mind
>set orf the person you are communicating with, uses the word to
>mean a theory that is proposed but not accepted yet, then they want
>to see proof. In this case all the documentary or theoretical
>proofs are just considered speculative, unles they too can share the
>experience. For instance, trying to explain gravity to people who
>always lived in weightlessness, would require many words, and
>formulas, but not until someone falls under the sway of gravity how
>could they understand it? Very few people are equipped to
>understand what they have not yet experienced, no matter how
>exceptional the explanations. To ask people to accept what one says
>on blind faith, is what most religions have tried to do.
>
>For a person with a little bit of help and guiding, to totally
>change their view about entheogens, would require a large dose and a
>little bravery and seeking mind. First find brave people, then find
>those with a seeking mind. That is asking alot from the kind of
>population that we fo=ind around us.
>
>Even in the 60’s with many people experimenting, only a small
>percentage of those experimenters, 10 years later, would defend the
>use of entheogens. I knew many people who had semi-heavy
>experiences, but ten years later they were party people doing
>budweiser and coke and 20 or 30 years later they repudiate
>Entheogens, as though their experiences meant nothing. Some one had
>written (I don’t remember who) that 2-4% percent of people who
>experiemented with Entheogens in the sixites, had the kind of life
>changing experience that they would say were religious experiences.
>Most of them, even those who became religious due to LSD experience,
>tend to deny that entheogens as just temporary–they buy into the
>guru chatter about “real” meditation, or later actually denouce it
>as “drug induced,” fantasy.
>
>To me their were many reasons for this. Dosage, polypharmacy–
>washing down “acid” with budweisers. Rolling donuts across the floor
>at Winchells Donuts instead of focusing while using the entheogen,
>distractions, inability to let go of ego, setting, etc. all those
>things.
>
>dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1408 From: Bob Prostovich Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Psychosis, religious experiencing, and entheogens
Schizohrenia is a chronic affliction which lasts
from inception to the rest of ones life time. However,
schizophreniform is a short duration psychotic episode
that lasts from one to six months. It can be said that
a schizophreniform episode parallels an entheogenic
experience. It could be an even more powerful mystical
experience then entheogen users who boast that they
can handle it and maintain their ego while getting
lost in euphoria, Playing frisbee at the beach . How
many entheogen users are actually seeking a mystical
experience?. How many actually experience a true ego
death except by having a *bad trip* experience by
default that would mirror a psychotic episode.

Schizphreniform experiencers have included writers
Terrence McKenna, Philip Dick, Robert Anton Wilson and
Grant Morrison.

This is what Grant Morrison wrote concerning his
schizophreniform experience.

“A state of awareness in which unusual information and
insights seem to
download into the brain … a kind of ego annihilation
is followed by
euphoric reintegration and a sense of extended
understanding. There’s a
surge of creative energy, all time is understood to be
happening
simultaneously, weird synchronicities occur
constantly. A new relationship
with time, the self, and death [emerges].”


— Michael Hoffman <mhoffman@…> wrote:
> Taking entheogens doesn’t automatically or
> inevitably result in religious
> experiences. Entheogens are an extremely strong
> facilitator of religious
> experiences, with a high correlation with religious
> experiences. Today’s
> prohibition situation distorts and reduces the
> religious potential of
> entheogens. Most of what is published about
> entheogen experiences is by
> people who are young and barely educated, and by
> older people who have had one
> or two experiences.
>
> Only when we have a large number of highly educated
> people who have used
> entheogens ten times or more can we start to give
> religious experiencing
> through entheogens a fair chance.
>
> Schizophrenics effectively have a frequent injection
> of entheogens, so their
> mental structure neither stabilizes in the egoic
> mode nor shifts coherently to
> the transcendent mode (two specific mental
> worldmodels with regard to self,
> time, space, and control). The schizophrenic mind
> doesn’t have multiple
> coherent personalities, but rather, dis-integrated
> and fragmented cognition
> that doesn’t amount to even one personality.
>
> The ideal path is from a stable egoic deluded
> worldmodel, through a series of
> loose-cognition sessions, to a stable transcendent
> worldmodel that retains the
> practical use of the egoic deluded worldmodel. The
> schizophrenic trajectory
> is from a mostly stable egoic structure, to an
> incessant series of loose
> cognition episodes, leading not to stable
> transcendent structure of
> worldmodel, but to a chaotic mix of egoic structural
> fragments and
> transcendent structural fragments.
>
> Today’s typical young entheogen users have a stable
> ego, but don’t move on to
> a stable transcendent structure, because of the lack
> of that higher stable
> structure in the general population. Why does the
> modern era lack the stable
> presence of the specific, stable, mental worldmodel
> among adults? Because of
> the lack of entheogens and because of the
> half-hearted commitment to
> rationality.
>
> If you add high eduction, commitment to rationality,
> and serious use of
> entheogens, with a goal of studying mental phenomena
> including personal
> control, religious experiencing and religious
> insight result. Today, under
> these conditions, it takes a particular mindset to
> use entheogens seriously in
> combination with rationality: something like Douglas
> Hofstadter’s AI/Cognitive
> Science approach including the interest in strange
> loops in consciousness.
>
> At the same time as high worldmodels are lacking and
> impoverished, and not
> integrated with rationality, so are the low
> worldmodels dominant. Ideally
> we’d have the low worldmodel and the high worldmodel
> available in society.
> Instead, the low worldmodel is overdeveloped and
> shuts out the actual high
> worldmodel. Egoic thinking is so totally dominant,
> even in religion, which is
> lowest-level religion or middle-level religion, that
> it becomes much harder to
> break away into higher thinking.
>
>
> — Michael Hoffman
> Egodeath.com
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Group: egodeath Message: 1409 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Psychosis, religious experiencing, and entheogens
Today’s typical young entheogen users have a stable ego, but don’t
move on to
a stable transcendent structure, because of the lack of that higher
stable
structure in the general population. Why does the modern era lack
the stable
presence of the specific, stable, mental worldmodel among adults?
Because of
the lack of entheogens and because of the half-hearted commitment to
rationality.<<<<<<


There are also very immature, simplistic and reactive, unconscious
principles in effect. The same thing was going on in the sixites,
with the largest percentage of people.

I have been on psychedelic newsgroups of mostly young people, and in
trying to explain basic principle of wise and serious entheogen use,
been berated as an old fuddy duddy as they are downing their DXM in
copius quantities, every other day.

>>>>If you add high eduction, commitment to rationality, and serious
use of entheogens, with a goal of studying mental phenomena
including personal
control, religious experiencing and religious insight result. Today,
under
these conditions, it takes a particular mindset to use entheogens
seriously in
combination with rationality: something like Douglas Hofstadter’s
AI/Cognitive
Science approach including the interest in strange loops in
consciousness.

At the same time as high worldmodels are lacking and impoverished,
and not integrated with rationality, so are the low worldmodels
dominant. Ideally we’d have the low worldmodel and the high
worldmodel available in society.
Instead, the low worldmodel is overdeveloped and shuts out the
actual high worldmodel. Egoic thinking is so totally dominant, even
in religion, which is lowest-level religion or middle-level
religion, that it becomes much harder to
break away into higher thinking.


— Michael Hoffman>>>>>>>>>>>>

Very well said.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1410 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
>>>>>>How can anyone know whether “most people” who used entheogens
now disparage
them? That’s selective reporting bias. This culture promotes
negative public
statements about entheogens, so you’ll hear lots of those, and
punishes
positive statements about entheogens, so you’ll not hear many of
those.

A list of reasons for entheogen users later disparaging and
belittling
entheogens should begin with the most forceful reason: the chilling
forces of
prohibition.

— Michael Hoffman>>>>>

Granted, many succumbed to further cultural conditioning, but this
simply indicates the pratical reality that Entheogen use done
improperly in the first place, wihout a good support structure in
society, deos not bring on the desired effects. So in terms
of “rarity,” there is still the problem of “most people.”

This is why after many years of pondering just this issue, I think
the best course and the only one that will work is education in the
highest sense and to do this we have to first eliminate the legal
problem, by using factors in the social reality to our benefit
rather then just fighting with it. It is a reality that the ideal
of “relgious freedom” is a more evolved principle then in the past
or in many cultures today. The strange fact that “relgious freedom”
is on the law books, is a milestone in a series of baby steps and
this needs to be exploited using calm, rational words and in a
sense “baby talk,” using back up material inexperienced people can
understand.

Being able to transform difficult scholarly explantions into
essentially “baby talk,” is a very difficult art. The audience has
to be this lowest common denominator if the message is to be heard,
while at the same time using academia and legal jargon so that that
level can understand.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1411 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: New Member
— In egodeath, “Kevin” <kabbalahkev@y…> wrote:
> Has anyone read, “Breaking Open the Head” by Daniel Pinchbeck.
> (A psychedelic Journey into the Heart of Contemporary Shamanism)?
>
> Comments welcomed/
>
> Peace,
> Kevin<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Hi, Could you do a little summation of that? Tell a bit about the
author?

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1412 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/03/2003
Subject: Re: Definition of ‘theory’
>>>>How can anyone know whether “most people” who used entheogens
now disparage
them? That’s selective reporting bias. <<<<<<

But I think it is more then anecdotal. As an idealistic and naive
kid I thought–even assumed that this awakening of society would
have tro happen now thay such a powerful agent for understanding
had been unleashed in the world.

In my case growing up in the So Cal area and seeing many of my
contempories, friends etc., as well as famous rock poets, using
entheogens, and exploring consciousness, during a three year
explosion of brilliance and then to see it all come crumbling down
so easily, was clearly a lesson. The 2-4% of people gaining lasting
benefit, later seemd to be a pretty accurate appraisal. Even the
rock lyrics reverted back to mundane boredom as most of the former
heros turned into drunken stooges for commercial enterprise and
former friends became PCP, alcohol and cocaine statistics or
retreated into cultish anti-entheogen thinking.

I saw a pretty widespread crossection in my realm of things.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1413 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: 60s lame fallout: evidence against entheogen potential?
>I thought–even assumed that this awakening of society would
>have to happen now thay such a powerful agent for understanding
>had been unleashed in the world.
>
>In my case growing up in the So Cal area and seeing many of my
>contemporaries, friends etc., as well as famous rock poets, using
>entheogens, and exploring consciousness, during a three year
>explosion of brilliance and then to see it all come crumbling down
>so easily, was clearly a lesson. The 2-4% of people gaining lasting
>benefit, later seemed to be a pretty accurate appraisal. Even the
>rock lyrics reverted back to mundane boredom as most of the former
>heroes turned into drunken stooges for commercial enterprise and
>former friends became PCP, alcohol and cocaine statistics or
>retreated into cultish anti-entheogen thinking.
>
>I saw a pretty widespread cross-section in my realm of things.


Data can be interpreted into different interpretive frameworks. Entheogens
appear to have expanded consciousness for a few years, and then appear to have
petered out. Supposing that this pattern or apparent or effective pattern
happened, it remains to debate why it happened and what it means regarding the
potential of entheogens. I’m far more interested in the potential of
entheogens than the accidents of history of the late 1960s.

No matter how much anecdotal evidence there is from the 1960s, that is just
one source of data, one scenario, and one that is completely complicated and
dirtied as trustworthy evidence by the deceit-driven drug prohibition
enterprise. We really must reject *equating* the accidents of the late 1960s
with the whole of entheogen history and entheogen potential.

In the U.S., LSD was legally prohibited October 6, 1966. Before it was
prohibited, it was apparently good and expansive of consciousness; after it
was prohibited, it was apparently bad and not expansive of consciousness. Did
LSD change? Can we let the systemic foolishness of the people during a period
of five years in the late 1960s put a permanent negative stamp on entheogens,
which have been the source of religion and higher philosophy for a thousand
thousand years?

It is impossible to make a fair scientific conclusion about LSD and entheogens
based on the mass of anecdotal and research data collected since the mid 20th
Century. It is way to early to say that we know the limits and potentials of
the entheogens. What little we think we know since the late 60s is corrupted
as data by the darkening force of prohibition.

Most of what is written about entheogens now, by kids online, is an
embarrassment to any claim of entheogens being enlightening and consciousness
expanding — but why? That’s the question. Entheogens were shot down before
they were given half a chance in the 1960s, and if the result was
unenlightenment and disparagement of the entheogens, what is to blame — the
lack of potential of entheogens? Heaven forbid.

People’s actions and responses through the late 1960s and beyond may have been
lame, but it’s completely a matter of debate over whether this is the fault of
psychoactives or of the culture that prohibited them. We’ve taken one
pathetic shot at entheogens. We should not let one foolish, short era drive
us permanently to a false conclusion about the potential of entheogens.
Group: egodeath Message: 1414 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Simplicity of enlight. is bad news for egoic hopes
Science correctly explains enlightenment by a strategy of deflation of the
egoically overinflated wishes for enlightenment.

The goal here is not to improve the world, but to define a model of
transcendent knowledge and establish that the entheogens are the most
effective way to fully grasp and experience that model of transcendent
insight. A key part of the strategy that makes the strategy so effective is
to define a model of enlightenment that is attainable and can be easily
secured, by reducing the stature of enlightenment and reducing the promises of
what benefits it can bring.

The good news is that enlightenment is vastly easier and simpler and a smaller
body of knowledge to attain than people assumed (and wished it to be). The
bad news is that it’s far smaller, plainer, and less world-changing. The
intellectual problem of transcendent knowledge and a rational model of
enlightenment is easily solvable, by reducing the problem.

Enlightenment has been now fully explained by science: it is really just
nothing more than using cognitive association loosening agents to temporarily
suspend the sense of free will and egoic control-power and individual egoic
separateness and thus switch the mental worldmodel from an egoic
trime-voyaging controller agent centered way of thinking, to a timeless,
frozen block-universe way of thinking.

Science has now explained also that all religion is essentially myth, not
literal history, and that all myth-religion reflects the aforementioned
process of using the loose cognition state to switch from the specific egoic
worldmodel to the specific transcendent worldmodel, requiring reindexing all
mental constructs regarding personal separateness, time, personal control, and
self.

Moral culpability shifts from being mentally attributed to the ego, to being
mentally attributed to the ground of being or a hypothetical responsible
controller of the ground of being. All theology easily maps to this model,
and all religious writings are more or less muddled expressions and metaphors
for these dynamics.

The Copenhagenist interpreters of Quantum Mechanics aren’t scientists, insofar
as they are busy interpreting; they are driven not by scientific goals but by
the popular project of defending egoic freewill at any cost, even of selling
out science’s reputation for striving for comprehensible models.

Einstein and Bohm were real scientists, promoting a hidden-variables approach,
compatible with determinism, and fairly visualizable, in which consciousness
doesn’t collapse the wave, but just the measuring instrument collapses the
wave, and the uncertainty is only uncertainty in the realm of knowledge, not
in the realm of the particles themselves.

The wave’s collapse is a collapse and resolution within the realm of
knowledge, not within the realm of actuality. That’s just a postulation, but
it is a superior postulation because it is comprehensible, unlike
Copenhagenism, which glories in, revels in, embraces, defends, loves,
advocates, and actively promotes incomprehensibility — a perfect perversion
of the spirit of science, positively delighting in undermining the entire
rational and reasonable character of science.

At the same time as the attainment at last of a rational and comprehensible
theory should be credited to the venerable name of Science (actually perhaps
the Engineering and Cognitive Science way of thinking), we must differentiate
between true and false science, between Bohm and Bohr. A single character,
the letter ‘i’ in a key word, split early theology into warring camps. Even
less separates true science from corrupt science: half a character — ‘m’ vs.
‘r’ in Bohm and Bohr, representing the Hidden Variables versus the
Copenhagenist positions.

Have your free will if you want it — but you must accept ESP, miracles, and
worst of all, Copenhagenism along with it, and also the endless
complexification of enlightenment.

Either:
ESP happens
There are miracles
There was a historical Jesus and Buddha
God’s kingdom refers to literal Jerusalem
Consciousness causes the quantum wave collapse
Individual personal free will is plausible and coherent
Enlightenment is complicated, difficult, and slow
Meditation is more effective than entheogens
Or:
There is no ESP
There are no miracles
There was no single Jesus or Buddha
God’s kingdom refers to the enlightened state
The quantum wave collapse is only a resolution in knowledge-space, not in the
particle itself
There is no individual personal free will
Enlightenment is simple, easy, and fast
Entheogens are more effective than meditation

Which set of axioms seems more plausible? Which one feels more satisfying and
comfortable? There are two mental personalities: those who love to embrace
the first set of suppositions, and those who seek the second set of
suppositions.

Many people positively cherish ESP, miracles, historical superhero religious
founder-figures, literalist exclusivist religion, magic thinking of
mind-over-matter taking over the mantle of Physics, and personal free will,
and have a love affair with the endlessly-receding romantic inflation of
enlightenment so that it is all the more sexy and appealing for being felt to
be out of reach, and are romanced as well by exotic and showfully *ascetic*
meditation.

People of that character feel too chilled by the prospect that there is no
ESP, that miracles are not to be held as maybe possible, that the devotional
figure of Jesus and Buddha simply aren’t there at all. It is disappointing to
them that there will be no conflagration and destruction of the world with
magic events happening in a wonderland of the Heavenly City, but that God’s
kingdom is nothing more than, well, the worst possible news in the world:
total defeat of the free will.

It is terrible, most unwelcome news to that type of mentality, that
enlightenment can be basically wholly attained, early in life, and that there
isn’t much to it at all, and it doesn’t change things much. It is devastating
to conclude that entheogens provide, relatively instantly and effortlessly,
what meditation manages to keep enticingly out of reach even after thirty
years of ascetic lifestyle.

This gospel is devastatingly disappointing, and tremendous great news. To the
egoic mind, enlightenment is the ultimate disappointment, the absolute and
total failure of their god, their religion, their spiritual worldview.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1415 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Pinchbeck’s book Breaking Open the Head
Breaking Open the Head: A Psychedelic Journey into the Heart of Contemporary
Shamanism
Daniel Pinchbeck
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767907426
Sep 2002

It’s a journalistic approach, which often works very well.

Average rating 5/5 in 16 reviews is high, and this is also a high rate of
posting reviews.
Group: egodeath Message: 1416 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Recommended books
I once posted a list of some top 5 or 10 books that would be most relevant.
Today’s books aren’t good enough, according to my way of thinking; I can only
recommend them with reservations. The problem is, I’d have to recommend
reading 100 books, because each one covers too few key topics, too weakly. I
need to write a great bibliography of 100 books that support my theory. It’s
more important to know about the books than reading them. See my book lists
at the website first, rather than trying to read these thick, half-clueful
books.

Mysticism in World Religions (not Geoffrey Parrindar’s; the out of print one)
Rebirth for Christianity – Huhn (no Historical Jesus; it’s all psychological
metaphor)
Myth & Ritual in Christianity – Alan Watts
Ken Wilber — Up From Eden is a readable early book, and has just enough
coverage of Hellenistic religion for me to show how utterly clueless Wilber is
there, omitting entheogens and supposing that Mr. Historical Jesus was,
inexplicably, far more advanced than his culture
Jonathan Ott: Entheogenic Reformation
Richard Double’s book showing the moralistic motives of freewillists and the
philosophical/scientific motives of determinists
Surely one of the very best is Elaine Pagels’ Gnostic Gospels — profound,
paradigm-changing, readable.
The Jesus Mysteries is also a real landmark — effectively simultaneously
disproves literalist religion and proves mystic religion.
An example of a book that is essential but only for establishing a couple
pieces of the puzzle: Dan Merkur’s Psychedelic Sacrament (entheogens in Jewish
mysticism)

I’d even have difficulty listing any books that show something *so basic* and
obvious as that the fundamental role of myth is to express the intense
entheogenic mystic altered state, not mundane default-state psychology, much
less how the external world works.

Books go out of print all the time, it’s terrible, including the very best
books. Even the very best books have just bits and pieces of the theory I’ve
pulled together, trivially simple though it may be. Knowing what topics and
interpretations to be alert for when reading is more important than which
books you read.

— Michael Hoffman
Egodeath.com
Group: egodeath Message: 1417 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Problem with revising thinking to attain perfect rationality
First, rationality is imperfect, being a mixture of foggy practical notions of
personal self-control power and moving through time. Then, in the mystic
altered state, rationality reaches one kind of perfection: realization of the
merit of postulating no-free-will, and frozen-time, and a few other key
points. This then raises a huge practical problem of self-control; at this
point one wrestles with an angel, and looks for a way to safely permanently
cast out the habitual demon of egoic imperfect thinking.

There is no egoic-type action that one can do as an egoic-type controller to
rescue and regain personal self-control stability. Only some transcendent
leap outside the system can return the mind to stability, but that leap isn’t
some egoic-type action that’s possible by an egoic-type controller-agent. The
mind experiences itself as being totally dependent on whatever it is that
timelessly injects thoughts into the mind, or sets thoughts in place in the
spacetime block.

What can one do to regain practical control and mental stability, when one is
seen to be frozen in an iron spacetime block? Ordinary perfect rationality
inexorably concludes that no such “move” is possible. At this point, ordinary
perfect rationality gives way to transcendent perfect rationality.

Mundane, muddled, normal-state egoic thinking isn’t ordinary perfect
rationality. The sequence is:

Egoic thinking (partial rationality, like child/animal)
Ordinary perfect rationality (only at the last moment of egoic life)
Transcendent perfect rationality (follows in 30 seconds, with sense of rescue)
Permanent transcendent mental worldmodel (transcendent thinking)

All one’s egoic reasoning finally adds up to a revision that brings about
ordinary perfect rationality, but that poses a huge problem, which is
immediately solved by leaping up to transcendent perfect rationality, which
may include, for example, a practical postulate of being controlled by a
compassionate, not just an impersonal, ground of being, or a compassionate
hidden controller that resides outside the ground of being and controls it
from outside.

Also, in a sense, the ego delusion is transcendently postulated, but now is
postulated in full light of the illusory, conventional nature of ego and the
sense of egoic free will and personal control-power. The mind builds up to a
perfect and problematic realization that it is a helpless puppet/slave rather
than a sovereign, and next solves that practical problem by learning to
falsely or transcendently postulate its sovereignty again.

Ordinary perfect rationality is only reached after developing egoic
rationality to the point of seeing how illogical it is, then revising it for a
more logical system — but at that point, a cybernetic control-stability
crisis immediately arises. At first, the mind flees for its egoic life,
falling back into “incarnation” and “rebirth”. But eventually the egoic mind
is strong enough to will its sacrifice, and is strong enough to be available
yet disengaged, or both affirmed and denied.

Finally the mind learns to say “I believe in the lie of ego, for practical
reasons of convention only.” I believe I am sovereign, though I know that I’m
not really sovereign; I am *virtually* a sovereign freewilliing agent. The
mind finally learns to think “I believe in my virtual-only ego, who commands
his own virtual-only individual free will.”

If it becomes practically necessary to postulate possibly meaningless things
such as a compassionate controller of the ground of being who is immune to
Fate and the power of frozen time, or to deliberately postulate ego and free
will only 30 seconds after having seen them to be essentially illusory, is
that perfectly rational, or less than rational?

It is a kind of coherent rationality that is more than perfect; it is
transcendent; it is rationality that includes the practical ability to fudge
to save your life as a practical, virtual self-controller agent who wields the
power of will even though the world is a frozen spacetime block.

The inevitable “mystery” that Reformed theology always leads to is a muddled,
inferior equivalent of this “paradox” of having to intentionally postulate
what you have just before managed to logically disprove: personal power, the
illusion of individual free will, the hoax of voyaging through flowing time
into an essentially open future.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1418 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
> I’d advise caution. There is no good reason to think that Siddhartha,
Zoroaster and Muhammud – for starters – weren’t historical figures.

Given how mythmaking works, and given the core purpose of myth-religion — to
reflect entheogenic mystic-state phenomena — there is no great reason to take
it for granted that they existed, either. Scholars have erred *way* too far
on the side of taking it for granted that the founding figures, such as Paul,
existed literally as individuals, though what myth is mainly about isn’t
historical individuals, but archetypal figures personifying the intense mystic
altered state.

I have read stacks of books against the Historical Jesus and other Christian
founding superheros, but not much regarding Buddha, Zoroaster, or Muhammud, so
I won’t press the nonexistence of the latter. Still, to say “Buddha existed
as a literal single person who founded Buddhism” is to put forward a grossly
misconceived and malformed model of what myth-religion is all about. The
primary source of myth-religion is the intense mystic altered state, not
founder-figures from long ago.


>One of the great strengths of early Christianity had to do with the fact that
the ‘cornerstone’ of the Church was the (absurd) Pauline belief in a literal,
historical ‘god’ who resurrected from the dead.


Early Christianity’s only claim to distinctiveness with respect to the other
mystery religions was the *claim* that Jesus was a historical literal
individual — it was a profitable claim.

Your above statement contains a weak assumption: the assumption or
interpretation that the Paul figure was made to preach a literal historical
literal death and literal resurrection of a single, specific historical
individual named Jesus. The Pauline writings express a purely Gnostic
interpretation, with the later Paul-attributed scriptures being used to
instead express anti-Gnostic viewpoints.

Only when the Pauline writings are read through Gospel-colored glasses can a
careless reader come away with the impression that those writings assume a
single, specific historical individual named Jesus.


>>We need a model of how religious literalism overshadowed entheogenic
mysticism, at least overshadowing it according to the official histories..

>Entheogenic mysticism suffered from esotericism from within and suppression
from without.

I’m extremely against secrecy of any sort, regarding esoteric knowledge or
practices. Prohibition makes this difficult, though. I’m also against the
lack of explicit explanation. Metaphor is good but is most helpful when
accompanied by explicit elucidation.


The official historians of religion, professional scholars of Christian
history, have manage to extremely entrench the view that orthodoxy has always
been actually the center of religion and that heresies have actually been
peripheral deviations. That view is so taken for granted that even the
would-be progressive entheogen scholars take it too seriously. The only
scenario that makes sense, given how intense the entheogen mood is in theology
and art, is that the officials had only very partial control, and that
heresies and entheogen use was quite commonplace.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 1419 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 15/03/2003
Subject: Re: 60s lame fallout: evidence against entheogen potential?
>>>People’s actions and responses through the late 1960s and beyond
may have been
lame, but it’s completely a matter of debate over whether this is
the fault of
psychoactives or of the culture that prohibited them. We’ve taken one
pathetic shot at entheogens. We should not let one foolish, short
era drive
us permanently to a false conclusion about the potential of
entheogens.<<<

Agreed. But these “pitfalls,” are instructive. It is not the
entheogens that are to blame, althoug it remains to be seen as to
what will be discovered in the future….much of what happened in
the sixties, or now with the rave culture etc., and ecstacy….is a
recapitulation of distinct patterns emerging. And there is always
the “Manson effect,” (did I just coin a phrase–I don’t know) these
ding dongs that kidnapped the young girl, supposedly “found god with
ten hits of LSD in the desert.”

Back in the eighties I wrote a humorous/sarcastic song about
the “discovery” of “Unicorn” 10,000 times more powerful then
LSD…..with the line, “now ANYONE can do it now matter how stupid
they are!!”

Of course not only should entheogens be legal for religious use,
they shoulr be legal for research. The science is still very
primitive and that needs ot be kept in mind. Someone near and dear
to me, who is brilliant, against my conservative advice, went
through a period of frequent X-tacy use. She knows now how it
effected her neurotransmitter levels and has taken a few years for
her serotonin chemistry to normalize. Of course this requires much
more research.

Also, as far as to what the future can hold…we cannot just discard
the reality that the most ancient cuklutre have this cultural memory
of the “Elixer of Immortality,” in the future the potential may be
greater then anyone imagines—the enthoegenic properties are onky
the tip of the iceberg.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1421 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 16/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
>>>>>Still, to say “Buddha existed
as a literal single person who founded Buddhism” is to put forward a
grossly
misconceived and malformed model of what myth-religion is all about.
The
primary source of myth-religion is the intense mystic altered state,
not
founder-figures from long ago.<<<<<

( I tried to make corrections in my reply to this but Yahoo ate it.

You may have got it in email…so I will rewrite.)

Siddartha Gautama Sakyamuni was a real individual person. The
problem has been in the dating , which is all screwed up and the
belief that he was directly responsible for all but around 10% of
the sutras.

The dating problem is due to an error made by William Jones and Max
Muller, which placed in in the 6th century or 5th century BC,
deopending on two other factors. This was all based on the “sheet
anchor of Indian History” which placed the King Chandragupta Maurya
as contemprary with Alexander, when in fact it should be
Chandragupta Gupta. This revision would placed Gautama’s birth
at around 1887 BC. The only teaching he really taught was the 4
noble truths, and the Eight Fold Path. All the later Sutras were
much later and especially the Mahayana, which has no direct
connection to Gautama. That Gautama was a divine being God-man type
is internally inconsistent with the early sutra, which were really
his teachings. He was a Philosopher not a divinity. That idea is
silly and inconguous with the oldest sutras.

The Mahayana even admits the use of “expedient means,” (Upaya) and
in placing Gautama as the central figure in Mahayana Sutras was an
expedient as well. The reason for this is too complex to get into
right now.

If one believes what Barbara Thiering says, that Jesus is
the “wicked Priest,” from the Dead Sea Scrolls, then that would be
the best evidence he really lived. I tend to believe he did live.
Of course the mytholgoy is rampant. I like the story that Mother
Mary’s tomb is in Pakistan and Jesus traveled to Kashmir at the Time
of Kanishka. People who follow “Bodhisattva Issa,” claim he was
Jesus and actually participated in the writings of the
Mahayana…..I said I like that theory, but don’t necessarily
believe it…I am just open to it. Who knows what archeologists will
find in the future.

Zoroaster, was probably based in a real person or persons, but
evidence for this is simply without substantial proof.

Mohammed, was a real person. There is just too many real events of
his pre-visionary days passed down, although I am no expert on him
by any means. I have seen evidence of entheogen use, I believe its
on Erowid. This would be very interesting to prove…..especially
now.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 1422 From: Bob Prostovich Date: 16/03/2003
Subject: Re: Defining a maximal entheogenic theory of religion
— rialcnis2000 <rialcnis2000@…> wrote:
> >>>>>Still, to say “Buddha existed
> as a literal single person who founded Buddhism” is
> to put forward a
> grossly
> misconceived and malformed model of what
> myth-religion is all about.
> The
> primary source of myth-religion is the intense
> mystic altered state,
> not
> founder-figures from long ago.<<<<<
>
> ( I tried to make corrections in my reply to this
> but Yahoo ate it.
>
> You may have got it in email…so I will rewrite.)
>
> Siddartha Gautama Sakyamuni was a real individual
> person. The
> problem has been in the dating , which is all
> screwed up and the
> belief that he was directly responsible for all but
> around 10% of
> the sutras.
>
> The dating problem is due to an error made by
> William Jones and Max
> Muller, which placed in in the 6th century or 5th
> century BC,
> deopending on two other factors. This was all based
> on the “sheet
> anchor of Indian History” which placed the King
> Chandragupta Maurya
> as contemprary with Alexander, when in fact it
> should be
> Chandragupta Gupta. This revision would placed
> Gautama’s birth
> at around 1887 BC.
>
>
>
> As with making the case for a historical Jesus there
are also similar problems with a historical Buddha. It
can be demonstrated that the Buddha is a composite of
godmen, legends and sayings. There is a host of
candidates for a historical buddha as there are for a
historical Jesus. There are about 25 buddhas who
appeared before Gotama. The name Gotama is a common
one in ancient India. So what proof is there that the
sayings of many Gotamas may not have been ascribed to
one person. There was a universal mythos in the
ancient world which resulted in religions based on
astrotheology and perhaps entheogen use. There is no
proof that there was a singular historical personage
for any of them. The only hope to find a single
historical figure for any of the ancient god men would
be to evemeristically lift up a common man to superman
status by mythos.


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Entheogens, Myth, and Human Consciousness (Ruck & Hoffman)

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Contents:

  • Book Link
  • My Book Review at Amazon

Book Link

Book:
Entheogens, Myth, and Human Consciousness
Carl Ruck, Mark Hoffman
http://amzn.com/1579511414
January 8, 2013

My Book Review at Amazon

Top reviews
Michael Hoffman
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3E82PDAXT9PT1/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00BSEQOPW
Reviewed on January 13, 2013
Verified Purchase
5 out of 5 stars

Myth refers to entheogens & slight phenomenology of consciousness

“Entheogens, Myth & Human Consciousness” summarizes the Carl Ruck paradigm. This book is a short summary and survey of his work, of the books and articles in his school of thought, which includes Mark Hoffman, R. Gordon Wasson, Blaise Staples, Clark Heinrich, Jonathan Ott, and Jose Celdran. Ruck and Hoffman show that psychedelic entheogenic psychoactive visionary plants are the origin of religions and religion. Despite the word ‘Consciousness’ in the title, this book and the work of Ruck and his circle does not cover cognitive phenomenology.

Given that this book is a general survey and summary of Ruck’s work, I’m critiquing and commenting on his general approach: how Ruck’s coverage advances understanding, and what the limitations of that approach are. I won’t go into details here, such as some points Ruck makes about Wasson that are debatable.

It would be a mistake to focus on whether Ruck proves that religion and myth refer to entheogens. I axiomatically assume that priests and scholars agree with Ruck even if censorship artificially gives the appearance that scholars agree with the official entheogen-diminishing paradigm. Entheogen scholarship should, like Ruck, give little attention to the official, entheogen-diminishing view. This book reviews the 20th Century history of the reception of the Entheogen theory of religion. Ruck shows how Wasson told Robert Graves to self-censor Graves’ 1950s discovery of mushrooms as the foundation of Greek myth and initiation religion.

Ruck’s work, if extrapolated to the maximum, shows that religion comes strictly through visionary plants. This use of his work supports a simple coherent model of intense mystic experiencing. The theory-development work at hand is not to compel a change in the official dogmatic story of religion, but rather, to make a compelling, actual explanatory model of religion, given that religion is accessed through entheogens. Recognizing entheogens as Ruck does is only the starting point; we must not stop theorizing where Ruck stops.

As far as I’m concerned, the only scholars who matter are those, many scholars, who agree — silently or vocally — with Ruck, or at least who, under the reality of heavy censorship, ensure that their writing is compatible with Ruck’s entheogen theory. Ruck is certainly correct; actually he doesn’t go far enough in emphasizing that every religion or brand of transcendent knowledge originates from visionary plants. That aspect of Ruck’s thinking isn’t worth critiquing; it is the starting point or mere preliminary for a critique. The entheogen theory of religion is not controverted or in doubt, as far as I am concerned, as an entheogen theorist.

Rather, the necessary critique is: how well does Ruck explain the meaning of religious myth, given that all religion comes from visionary plants? Not very well; his explanation is a long way from satisfying meaning. Ruck’s approach is misleading in that it puts the main emphasis on the visionary plants instead of correctly putting main emphasis on specific cognitive experiential dynamics as the main referent which myth describes by analogy and metaphor. This book does not present a new kind of coverage of myth and cognitive phenomenology, as Benny Shanon‘s book does ( The Antipodes of the Mind: Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience ), and as my work focuses on.

The Ruck paradigm is that myth points to the sheer use of drug plants in religion, as if what is revealed in religious revelation and enlightenment is the sheer presence and the fact of use of the visionary plants in religion. But I have always treated entheogens as merely the threshold outside the area that needs theorizing, merely the starting point and given; given that visionary plants are the way that the mind accesses religion, what then, is revealed within the resulting cognitive state, after ingesting the sacrament? How does the mind structure its mental construct processing in the non-visionary and the visionary-plant states: what’s the difference?

What’s the difference in experiencing, thinking, feeling, sensation, and perception, in the non-visionary contrasted with the visionary plant state? Ruck and his school halt at the doorway, showing how religious experiencing is accessed, but not what the cognitive phenomenology are, that are accessed. The barely touches on the topic of “consciousness”, or cognitive phenomenology. Benny Shanon goes somewhat further past the doorway, as if Shanon has experience with the visionary plant state and Ruck does not. Ruck writes from an outsider, armchair-theoretical, non-experiential perspective: this book doesn’t cover entheogen-induced experiencing.

For example, Ruck frames the myth of the battle as the battle to get the visionary plant. But within the religious cognitive state that the visionary plant induces, battle occurs, but which you would hardly glean by reading Ruck. Ruck and his school are not useful within the mystic intense peak altered state; the explanation of myth halt at the threshold: his theory gives us the visionary plant, but doesn’t discuss what to do mentally with myth once the mind is within the visionary plant state.

After reading Clark Heinrich’s book Strange Fruit: Alchemy, Religion and Magical Foods: A Speculative History and Mark Hoffman’s Entheos journal issues, I gathered additional compelling evidence to define the simple extremist maximal position, that religion and the mystic state is and was always accessed through visionary plants. But my contribution to entheogen history scholarship is merely in support of my main focus, which is all on the “consciousness” aspect, the cognitive effects of the visionary plants, which is barely covered by Ruck, despite this book’s title.

Another author starting to build on Ruck’s work to go further than Ruck through the doorway into the altered state is Luke Myers, Gnostic Visions: Uncovering the Greatest Secret of the Ancient World, but again we there get more of a tour of mythic philosophy and metaphors but without resolving those metaphors into their ultimate, non-metaphorical referent in terms of describing cognitive phenomenology and the difference between mental construct processing in the non-visionary versus the visionary state of consciousness.

This book is a good survey and summary of the essential Ruck paradigm. Ruck’s work is not the final word on myth and entheogens, but is an essential intermediate building block, which gives us the fact that religion and religious myth comes from religious experiencing which comes from visionary plants. The end of the book states: “… there always seems to be something more to explore, just a little bit further along the way.” Ruck only shows that religious myth is generally concerned with the entheogen state of consciousness. But no details within that subject are provided: what are the cognitive phenomenology that occur within the entheogen-induced state of consciousness, and how are those cognitive phenomena experiential dynamics themselves described by myth?

Ruck’s paradigm has nothing to say to the person who is in the intense mystic cognitive state, or to describe to scientists what the person is experiencing; in the final assessment, his theory’s contribution is just to repeat “Religious myth refers to the use of entheogens.” This is the point of failure or petering out, of the Ruck paradigm; its boundary past which his map shows only “terra incognita” and “here be monsters”. Ruck’s map only shows the shoreline of the new land; his map doesn’t extend within the land that’s given after ingesting the plant and then turning attention beyond the plant.

Ruck’s paradigm mainly maps mythemes to the physical plants and the sheer fact that they are used, but only slightly maps mythemes to “consciousness”, that is, to the cognitive dynamics that result from visionary plants. His mapping of myth isn’t equipped and capable of describing the difference between the dynamic cognitive phenomena in the non-visionary state versus the dynamic cognitive phenomena in the visionary state.

Benny Shanon points the way significantly further here. Shanon is more truly based within the visionary state, providing a starting effort at describing how the visionary state works (after ingesting the plant then turning attention away from the plant itself) and how the visionary state contrasts with the non-visionary state.

I have found Carl Ruck’s work, including this book, to be valuable at showing that religious myth comes from visionary plants (though he doesn’t take that idea to the simple radical extreme of my maximal entheogen theory). I also found Rucks’ work valuable for providing an initial hypothesis of myth: he shows us a myth and explains how it refers to the visionary plant, and I then read his mapping and say: yes, so far as you go, that mytheme maps to visionary plants, but you are missing the more important, more ultimate, non-metaphorical mapping and meaning of that myth you have informed me of; ultimately referring to certain experiential dynamic phenomena about self, time, control, and fatedness.

  • Benny Shanon asserts: myth refers to visionary-state cognitive phenomenology, whatever they might be.
  • Ruck asserts: myth refers to the use of visionary plants, with whatever experiencing results from that.
  • The book Gnostic Visions asserts: Esoteric myth refers to experiential Philosophy describing the altered-state experiencing, whatever it consists of.
  • My approach is more specific: religious myth refers to the use of visionary plants to cause a specific mental model transformation from a particular non-visionary mode and mental model, to another particular visionary mode and mental model, of self, time, control, and fatedness.

Thus Ruck and Shanon provide a subset of entheogen-revealed knowledge: they are correct so far as they go, but Ruck is incorrect in putting primary emphasis on the sheer use of visionary plants instead of putting primary emphasis correctly on the particular cognitive dynamics that result from the plants after having taken the plants — Ruck’s theory is not particularly equipped to focus on describing how myth maps to cognitive dynamics, as Shanon rightly calls for but as Shanon himself is not adequately equipped for.

Ruck’s paradigm is a transitional bridge to support explaining how myth points beyond the visionary plants, to the specific mental dynamics that the plants produce, such as the threat of loss of control, the snake monster guarding the specific visionary knowledge the mind desires and is attracted to, and divine help and rescue from the threat of the monster that’s part of the package deal, forming a gateway or boundary crossing — as a specific cognitive dynamic regarding our mental model and mode of experiencing, of self, time, possibility, and personal control agency.

That’s what wrong with Ruck’s school, though he contributes an essential building block toward transcendent knowledge: he puts the main emphasis on mapping myth to visionary plants, when instead, the main emphasis is correctly put on mapping myth to the specific dynamics of personal control power and mental model transformation that result from visionary plants. Visionary plants are the entryway, or the welcome mat outside, not themselves the content of what’s revealed in the peak window of the intense mystic altered state.

Carl Ruck and Mark Hoffman are absolutely correct that religion comes from visionary plants and that myth (to some extent) refers to the use of visionary plants, as summarized in this book; that’s the only explanatory theory of religion worth committing to developing. But their emphasis is mistaken and limited, mis-structured, missing the mark, and misrepresenting what myth means to the mind within the resulting intense mystic altered state. Their work is useful as a building block in support of a proper, well-formed focus on identifying and clearly modelling the true structure and concern that myth describes, with plants as a mere given and starting point but not the heart of what myth ultimately refers to and describes.

— Michael Hoffman
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The Egodeath Theory Is for Mystics, Applies to Mystics, & Explains Mystics

Contents:

The Egodeath Theory Explains How All Minds Work when Exposed to the Loose Cognitive Association Binding State, Including the Minds of Normal People and the Minds of Mystics

The Magic Word Mystics of Egodeath

Definition of ‘Everyone’, ‘Ordinary People’, and ‘Mystics’
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/tk-podcasts-commentary/#Definition-of-Everyone
stable reference definitions of the magic word mystics 🪄

The Egodeath theory applies to everyone, including non-mystics and mystics.

The Egodeath theory is for everyone, including non-mystics and mystics.

The Egodeath theory explains how all minds work in the altered state (loose cognitive binding), including non-mystics and mystics.

The Egodeath theory understands all minds that are exposed to loosecog, including the minds of non-mystics and mystics.

The Egodeath theory explains how all minds work, per entheogenic World Religion, including non-mystics in all religions, and mystics in all religions.

Where People Are Hearing that the Egodeath Theory Excludes Professional Mystics

People are hearing the following assertions:

The Egodeath theory does not apply to mystics.

The Egodeath theory is not for mystics.

The Egodeath theory does not explain how the minds of professional mystics work.

The Egodeath theory can never understand mystics.

The Egodeath theory apples to regular people.

Regular people are different and alien compared to mystics.

The Egodeath theory is for regular people.

The Egodeath theory explains how the minds of regular people work.”

Here is where they are picking up assertions similar to the above:

[1:01:15]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ-xfMkHyuQ&t=3665s

Max says “The Egodeath theory in that sense applies to us, it doesn’t apply to any special class of people; it applies to how Joe Average experiences … at some point in their life, but normally it’s like after age 15 or so between age 18 to 25ish roughly, most people first encounter … in a certain way and they may or may not be transformed in a certain way, and what I’m saying is the Egodeath theory is about that, it’s not about any special class of people who you might refer to as ‘mystics’”

Kafei: “Yeah sure I mean I figured that maybe like it could at least comment on it, from the vantage point of the Egodeath theory how would it describe mystics, or something like that.”

Max: “He doesn’t, he doesn’t, forget about mystics, forget about mystics, bracket them off, for this part of the conversation, we’re talking about how people like us would [explore], because that’s what’s relevant to us, because we are not mystics, why would we be so interested in a theory about people who we are never going to be like, who we can never know what it’s like to be those people, we can only know what it’s like to be ordinary regular everyday people. And so the Egodeath theory is for us. Cyberdisciple used the word ‘democratizing’; I think that’s a crucial point here: it’s a democratic theory, it’s not a theory for some ultra special elite who we can never hope to understand.”

Kafei: “Ok, I do consider myself an aspiring mystic.”

It seems like the above is striving to construct a bad, pseudo-definition of ‘mystic’, that’s a non-definition definition, and then stating the now-made-confusing words “the egodeath theory doesn’t apply to mystics”, after having erected a bad, non-definition defintion of mystics that everyone rejects — but still uttering the now undefined & meanlingless but bad-sounding words, “the egodeath theory doesn’t apply to mystics, where the word ‘mystics’ is defined as undefined.”

A very unpopular definition of the word mystics – who holds that “undefined defined” position?

This is not an effective way to proceed, defining an undefined pseudo-definition of the word ‘mystics’ that everyone rejects, that violates Webster’s definition, and then saying the (now meaningless) words “the Egodeath theory doesn’t address mystics” — whenmystics‘ has been mis-defined (as undefined), in a way that no one accepts and no one holds.

None of the Great Mystics of Egodeath agree to that non-definition, quasi-definition of the word ‘mystics’. So it really amounts to nothing, meanlingless, the words “the egodeath theory doesn’t address mystics” — so long as that non-def def’n of ‘mystics’ is used.

The statement is meaningless, but it’s misleading, it sounds as if you’re saying “the Egodeath theory doesn’t address mystics” – where now, the word ‘mystics’ is taken in the common, reasonable sense like my definition of ‘mystics’, which is an actual definition.
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/tk-podcasts-commentary/#Definition-of-Everyone

When you say “the egodeath theory doesn’t address mystics“, are you using the word ‘mystics’ in an undefined, non-standard way, that no one accepts, that no one holds? If so, then the statement
the Egodeath theory doesn’t address mystics“,
where ‘mystics’ is used in that mis-defined way, is both an irrelevant statement, and a meaningless statement.

We’re off in the weeds, relating the Egodeath theory to a position that no one holds and no one likes. Why bother saying “the Egodeath theory doesn’t apply to mystics”, when ‘mystics’ is mis-defined as undefined and no one accepts that definition?

Not Meaningful

The statement sounds meaningful, but it’s not, since the definition of ‘mystics’ used in that statement is bunk; a non-definition pseudo-definition.

Not Relevant

The statement sounds relevant, but it’s not, since no one holds that position, that (non-definition) “definition” of ‘mystics’ – not Webster, and not
the Grea🍄 Mys🍄ics of Egodea🍄h

The Theory Is Aimed for Everybody, Not Ultra-Special Class of People

Episode 26, 1:03:30

Max: “I’m just trying to point out the democratic nature of the Egodeath theory. It’s aimed for everybody; it’s not aimed for some ultra-special class of people.

The above is potentially self-contradictory, if the (here undefined) word ‘everybody’ is allowed to covertly shift meaning from inclusive to exclusive; from universal set to partial subset.

Same w/ ‘democratic’: is that supposed to include elites, or not?

Undefined terms.

Contrast Max’s hyperbole statement elsewhere in this podcast that sounds as if the Egodeath theory fails to cover mystics.

PLACE YOUR BETS ON THIS GUESSING GAME: DOES THE AMBIGUOUS WORD ‘EVERYBODY’ MEAN THE UNIVERSAL SET, OR JUST A SUBSET, THAT EXCLUDES MYSTICS?

It’s unclear how he’s defining ‘everybody’.

Here is how I am defining ‘everyone’ in a stable, consistent way, to mean the universal set; not a subset:

https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/tk-podcasts-commentary/#Definition-of-Everyone

Interesting Points to Maybe Cover More, in Podcasts/ Website

  • Is the Egodeath theory for everyone, or only for professional mysticism-writers, or only for ordinary people?
  • Jimmy’s pull toward namedropping [ie, discussingbook titles & authors (vs. talking in terms of core concepts of the Egodeath theory) — is it unbalanced?  
    • % focus on the Egodeath theory’s Core theory/core concepts. 
    • % focus on history of scholarship and books/authors writing about mystic stuff.
  • Max mentioned more discussion of Mythemes & mytheme decoding, in podcast.

Comment on Podcast Page

There is a related Comment at:
https://cyberdisciple.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/transcendent-knowledge-podcast-ep-26/ – wrmspirit (an Egodeath Yahoo Group contributor since the 2001 start) wrote:

“Regarding the distinction of common people with that of special mystics, may be missing the point of what the phenomenology within the Egodeath Theory reveals.

The body and mind are common to all living people. This includes people living in the ordinary world of possibilism, the ordinary state of consciousness, and people who take psychedelics and experience the altered state of consciousness, the mystic altered state, loose cognition.

Possibilism is experienced by everyone.

The altered state of consciousness into eternalism is experienced by everyone (anyone) who takes psychedelics.

How the experience of the mystic altered state becomes interpreted by people, without the Egodeath theory as a reference, results in all the multitude of various writings such as those that Jimmy reads.

If all the many descriptions of loose cognition experience were discussed in a detailed worldwide conference, all the experiences would be broken down into what the Egodeath Theory reveals, just as water can be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen.

And which everyone would be able to clearly see. Which is precisely why the Egodeath Theory is a major discovery for the world.

Now, what occurs with people after experiencing the mystic altered state loose cognition, and when back into the ordinary world of possibilism[-consciousness/ experiencing], does not alter the phenomenology of The Egodeath theory [ie the “eternalism/pre-existence” altered state] one bit.

Some people may develop spiritual egos.

Some may become highly religious, some may become atheists, and some may do nothing different.

And none of that alters the Egodeath Theory at all, as none of that changes
the basic, underlying commonality of experience of human life when in the mystic altered state.”

/ end of Comment

Conversation Around the Word ‘Everyone’

Interesting point to be clarified by everyone involved – not sure I understood the intended point:

“Max in the podcast with Jimmy made the Egodeath Theory separate from some people, by excluding the mystics.”

I also heard the opposite-sounding:

“Jimmy is into idolatry of those guru fellows“.

Excluding mystics is bad, but idolizing gurus (or, professional specialist mystics) is bad too.

One could depict Max & Cyb as “too professional & specialized; not representative of normal people”.  They are post-doc academics with PhD degrees, not just ordinary people with Bachelor degrees.

Max and Cyberdisciple, what I focused on (what I heard) in the podcast, they were trying to include everyone (as Cyberdisciple literally said), rather than only including the mystics.

Max says in Episode 26, 1:03:30: “the democratic nature of the Egodeath theory. It’s aimed for everybody; it’s not aimed for some ultra-special class of people.””

Objectively, I can support this by quotes & podcast timestamps — one could perhaps make the case that Jimmy is trying (so to speak) to make enlightenment exclusive, but Max & Cyb are trying to make enlightenment inclusive.  

If there’s someone who (seemingly) tends to push-away enlightenment and put it out of reach and make it difficult and restricted to a small elite exclusive group, it’s Jimmy, not Max & Cyb.

It was most interesting in the podcast, how Jimmy seems to think in terms of “enlightenment is for the very few, the professionals, the specialists.”

I have at least one timestamp for that in the below page.

This subject could have additional interesting discussion, since there seem to be different perspectives not aligning.  

I wrote about the subject in my podcast commentary:

In this section, Find ‘everyone’:
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/tk-podcasts-commentary/#Psychedelics-Make-You-Have-Good-Moral-Values

And see the subsequent entire 2 sections:
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/tk-podcasts-commentary/#Professional-Mystics-vs-Completed-Mystery-Religion-Initiates
https://egodeaththeory.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/tk-podcasts-commentary/#The-Egodeath-Theory-Is-Designed-for-Use-by-Normal-People

Jimmy tends to exclude non-mystics from the Egodeath theory and enlightenment.

I’m against excluding anyone.  

I’m against only mystics having enlightenment and the Egodeath theory; I want everyone — the mystics AND the non-mystics — to have metaphysical enlightenment and the Egodeath theory.

I’m getting the impression that some people believe someone has to be excluded.  I don’t follow the reasoning behind that.  

The word ‘everyone’, by definition, means everyone; it means not excluding anyone.

I’m against excluding normal people; and I’m against excluding mystics.  

The Egodeath theory is written to be quickly readable for everyone, not only for mystics.  

Saying that, is not excluding mystics; it’s including both mystics and nonmystics; thus the word ‘everyone’.