Egodeath Yahoo Group – Digest 50: 2003-11-12

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Group: egodeath Message: 2495 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2496 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Group: egodeath Message: 2497 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2498 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2499 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2500 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2501 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: What seekest thou and why?
Group: egodeath Message: 2502 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Fw: Quotes and responses
Group: egodeath Message: 2503 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2504 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2505 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2506 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: What seekest thou and why?
Group: egodeath Message: 2507 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Fw: Quotes and responses
Group: egodeath Message: 2508 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Equivalence of different mystic camps and allegories
Group: egodeath Message: 2509 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Unlocking the Bible Codes – Found Codes
Group: egodeath Message: 2510 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Another tool to help destroy / is egodeath beneficial to societ
Group: egodeath Message: 2511 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: The very late invention of the Cross
Group: egodeath Message: 2512 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Cosmic escape: read mysticism allegorically/descriptively, not lite
Group: egodeath Message: 2513 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: On-topic debate on ego death
Group: egodeath Message: 2514 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Group: egodeath Message: 2515 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2516 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Group: egodeath Message: 2517 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Evolving Psychic Archetypes
Group: egodeath Message: 2518 From: Khem Caigan Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2519 From: Khem Caigan Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: egodeath Message: 2520 From: Khem Caigan Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Group: egodeath Message: 2521 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Fw: Advocates of Mind altering drugs.
Group: egodeath Message: 2522 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Group: egodeath Message: 2523 From: wrmspirit Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: (no subject)
Group: egodeath Message: 2524 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Group: egodeath Message: 2525 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2526 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2527 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2528 From: toosirius666 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Jack Herer and James Arthur Cannabis Cup Nov. 20th 2003
Group: egodeath Message: 2529 From: Khem Caigan Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Group: egodeath Message: 2531 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2532 From: mindexpand2001 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: why all the arguing?
Group: egodeath Message: 2533 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: why all the arguing?
Group: egodeath Message: 2534 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Fw: [gnosis284] science today
Group: egodeath Message: 2535 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: The big Picture
Group: egodeath Message: 2536 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2537 From: mindexpand2001 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2538 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2539 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2540 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Fw: [gnosis284] RE: Buddhism
Group: egodeath Message: 2541 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: The big Picture
Group: egodeath Message: 2542 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Group: egodeath Message: 2543 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Fw: [gnosis284] RE: Buddhism
Group: egodeath Message: 2544 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: The big Picture
Group: egodeath Message: 2545 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: The big Picture



Group: egodeath Message: 2495 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Try, if you are interested…..

http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/rwr.htm

http://www.marharrell.com/Pages/DRich01.html

http://www.ehe.org/display/ehe-autobiography.cfm?ID=83

In the first address you will find one of my early books – The
Tractate on
Transcendence. Therein you will find five chapters under the
headings EXEGESIS,
therein you will find the answer to your above question. And feel
free to
compare it all (all twenty years of it) with drug induced
experiences. And then
tell me that these things do not come about other than by
invocation – I did not
even want the stuff – I was just stuck with it. So, there you go,
and such is
life and the nature of reality.

Dick.<<<<<

I will look at this and I will get back to you. I am well aware
that some people have unusual brain chemistry.

What i think you need to understand is that for a teaching to have
any effect, it has to apply to a broad range of people.

As to whether the experiences you have hd are as the high end as you
claim, I will give you my opinion after I read them.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2496 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Khem writes…. [Interesting and creative use of the word fraud ]

Not my word Mr – try reading the book about him written by a member of his own family, the book is called – The Genuine Fraud. So once again assumption is on the rampage here as I have already pointed out. Do some reading friend. Watt’s NEVER KNEW the things he was preaching about – and he died trying to find them by way of drugs. Moreover, what Watts led people to believe that he knew was not even a fraction of what exists to be known and experienced. Ipso Facto.

Dick.
—– Original Message —–
From: Khem Caigan
To: Egodeath Group
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [egodeath] Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysticism




Dick doth schriebble:
<SNIPS>
> Even the hippie movement was originally founded by such frauds as
> Alan Watts (an English misfit), and Co, who were popping pills
> until it killed him/them. And look at the legacy that movement
> left; it is still with society today – about five percent zapped
> out junkies.
> Some ideal, some movement, some inspiration – some legacy.

Interesting and creative use of the word fraud –


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2497 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Okay Dick I have read carefully your experiences.

Naturally you search for others to validate your experience and
naturally you have taken criticism from other quarters then this
Yahoo group about them. It is also natural to want to find others
that have had these kind of experiences.

Before i go into anything further would you please answer some
questions?

1. Prior to your experience at age 24, had you ever used any
Entheogens at all…even Marijuana?

2. On the day of your first experience, when you put the music on
what had you ben eating?

3. You mention coffe quite a bit, How much coffee were you
drinking? Were you using any other stimulants? What were your
drinking habits?

4. What was your main “religious,” influence at the time of that
experience?

5. Are you aware of endogenous DMT?

6. Since those main experiences, how often if ever did you have
experiences of that kind later in your life?

7. Did you ever have any impairment in your level of functioning in
daily life, that for instance plagues people with mental illness?
(simply a question, not an assumption or insult)


Pleae answers these questions for me.


Reading your experience it is clear that it is on the level of
common, decent dose, Entheogenic experience. Had you said at the
beginning “I had eaten some moldy rye bread that day” or “I had
eaten a toadstool,” then pointing to the biochemical trigger would
be easy.

I have done intake on many a Acute Psych admission, and in some of
those cases I would discover excessive coffee drinking and an
apparent sensitively to caffeine. One young man had decided to
roll a cigarette out of sage. Also accidental ingestion of Ergot,
historically has led to religious experience where the person was
unaware of the initial trigger and just sumed it was divine
intervention.

One thing that is great about entheogen use, is that one can easily
replicate and test the validity of one’s experience and learn more
quite easily…and actually learn to be wholly objective about it,
to test what is a function of the inherent mental imagery, what is
really awareness of inner physical structure (Psychedelic
Structuralism theory) and what is actually showing you principles
of reality, stripped of the clothing of belief sysytem imprints.

As far as the content you depict in these experiences, it all sounds
like initial, decent dose, entheogenic experience and you reacted to
it in a similar way as most people initially using entheogens in a
serious way do.

As one can step back fron there experience and integrate it further
one can gradually become aware of the mechanistic way in which the
experience unfolded and then become more scientific about their
experience.

I believe you need to study, entheogens further. But until knowing
more about you i wouldn’t advise you to start experimenting. Some
small percentage of people are overly sensitive to entheogenic
triggers and if not prepared properly, can run into issues.

In general, when a Entheogen user fails to maintain objectivity,
they can get swayed quickly into developing a belif in their
specialness. For instance they do not realize that the experience
that showed them “god” may be a ubiquitous thing and they begin to
devlop the idea they are in the Messiah category, when in fact all
people share this innate ability to see thing as they really are.


It is also a common tendancy for people to fixate on a particular
experience and lose objectivity.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2498 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
[ I will give you my opinion after I read them. ]


And by what criteria will you judge Sir ? Judgement can only be made from having walked further down a road than the reference point from where the assertion being stated has its point of reference. You cannot judge what lies at the end of a road until such time that one has been to end of that road. Maybe you have, maybe you have not. But I would welcome some idea of your perspective upon which your opinion will be based – – from hindsight or speculation?

Having done various aspects of both teaching and instruction over the last forty years one soon learns the lesson (whilst teaching) that one has to know ones stuff better than the pupil. As a driving school proprietor for many years I occasional had a pupil whom I had to tell them that they did not need lessons for they were already driving well above the standard required – but not often. When it came to teaching sales representatives then there were times when no amount of instruction could teach them to sell.

Dick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2499 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
[This is not true. There have never been “millions of folks,”
claiming substantail religious experience. ]

How do you know; have you counted them? I have found that in most cases one has to drag it out of them – for they are too frightened to say anything in this crazy world. Moreover, as I said before, people have being having them since we lived in caves; and ‘millions’ does not necessarily means a large percentage of all human beings that have existed. But although mystic experiences are quite rare (especially the deeper kinds) there are a lot of people out there – and a small percentage of a hell of lot is quite a few.

[You have gotten angry ]

You are very astute Sir – yes I have indeed. I came on this list in good faith; and very polite, and got dealt shit – I too can dish it out if one has too, I prefer not to; but we live in a world of needs must eh. If this lot can dish it out then this lot can learn to take it – or you can pull the plug on me – pity you missed the nice guy whilst he was here.

[attacking using the “drug” word.]

Oh no Sir, I am not attacking; I am defending. I have not gone on to the attack yet. And the drug word IS the operative word on this forum it seems.

[What you really should understand is… ] Blaa blaa blaa, all I get on this list is people telling me what I should understand – what about you lot then – have you no more understanding to do? Oh, well of course not, for you know it all.

Oh, by the way son, anyone who has already had their awakening (as you put it) would never get involved in man made religions – don’t you know. Well, there is something which you ought to understand then eh !

[In thirty five years of being involved with Buddhists I find that the vasdt majority of people are just as inexperienced as before. ]

Well you would do son, for Buddhism is both crap and wrong. Did you not know that Buddhism was set up as a psychological ploy to try and rid that part of the world of all its religions at that time. The ‘philosophy’ which states that there is no real self in the machine – and yet that self reincarnates. They want to get their act together. Moreover, you cannot destroy a lie with yet another lie.

Is that it for now; yup, seems so? Right, time for a quiet pint of ale then.

Dick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2500 From: Dick Richardson Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
[Okay Dick I have read carefully your experiences. ]

Try reading the whole book. Ok, I will answer your questions as you went to that trouble. But once again I have to reiterate that you are making many false assumptions in your mail.

First, I am not seeking confirmation of my or any experiences – one does not need one for the experience itself does not need confirmation – IT happened. I do not give a damn of fifty million have had the same experiences as me or none of them have – it is irrelevant. Experience is for the observer.

[Naturally you search for others to validate your experience ] Wrong; I do not. Do not judge by what YOU may do or others may do – I AM ME.

[naturally you have taken criticism from other quarters then this
Yahoo group about them ] Wrong. I have made thousands of friends and good acquaintances all over the world and on five continents (and many in the USA – all over the USA – some of my best friends; and I much prefer yank academics to British ones).

[It is also natural to want to find others that have had these kind of experiences.] What were you guys saying to me the other day about what is natural? I do not give a damn either way son.

[1. Prior to your experience at age 24, had you ever used any Entheogens at all…even Marijuana? ] Most certainly not; I have never taken drugs other than the occasion smoke of golden Virginia home rolled fags. I have never been ill; never had a headache or hangover in my life and so I can even count the number of aspirins I have had on one had. Had a nasty toothache once for which I took some aspirins, but that is all.

[2. On the day of your first experience, when you put the music on what had you ben eating? ] The usual crap which I have been eating all my life – sausage egg and chips and other such fast food. I eat to stay alive – I do not live to eat. Food does not interest me other than a wee bit to stay alive.

[3. You mention coffe quite a bit, How much coffee were you drinking? Were you using any other stimulants? What were your drinking habits? ] I did not drink coffee until I was 36 years of age. But at that time vary rarely. I used to drink milk, water or tea. I drink gallons of coffee now – my second wife started me on it.

[4. What was your main “religious,” influence at the time of that experience? ]

I was born hating religions – I am here to destroy them. I was taken into a church for the first time when I was seven. When I heard what they were saying I physically threw up in disgust – they rushed me out quick.

[5. Are you aware of endogenous DMT? ] I have read a lot of things in my time but cannot remember them all now. I may have done and I may not; remind me.

[6. Since those main experiences, how often if ever did you have experiences of that kind later in your life? ]

One does not need to see the same thing twice. But after that first one I had regular psychic experiences for twenty years and they all taught me something different. But the last event was another big mystical event twenty years after the first – the consummatum incarnate – as it had been in transcendence then so too did it become on earth. I never need the same experience twice.

[7. Did you ever have any impairment in your level of functioning in
daily life, that for instance plagues people with mental illness?
(simply a question, not an assumption or insult) ]

No insult taken – thick skinned you know. I have never been either physically ill or mentally ill in my life. I am of about average intelligence; I learn very quick. I am exceptionally strong (just born that way) much to the dismay of bullies. I have never passed out or fainted in my life – and my constitution is that of an ox. All my sensory inputs (and other antenna) are working fine and I can still chase sixteen your-old’s around the block. I have a very good sense of humour (far better than the Germans you know :- ))) and most folk think I am good fun to be with. So no problems in my life. All is just fine – and five healthy bright kids.

I have never held beliefs in my life – knowledge of some things and ignorance of other is good enough for me. I was asked to become a Bishop in a church once – thank you ma’am but no thanks. I have been offered money for helping people ($6000 once) same again, thank you ma’am but no thanks. Nobody can buy me and I am not for sale.

Hope this answers your questions Sir.

Dick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2501 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: What seekest thou and why?
Given that at least the active members of this list are seemingly seeking something by way of deliberately taking in substances to their system (I will not use the word drugs if it is a sore point here) then could I ask a few questions maybe?

(1) If a person is seeking something then presumably they do not have it; for one does not go looking for something which is not missing. So, could I ask as to what it is they assume or believe that they are looking for? Please do not say something like ‘enlightenment’ without defining your terms in a little more detail.

(2) One would not go to the trouble of looking for something without a reason of some kind. So, why do they want whatever it is they are seeking for?

(3) What will they (you) do with it if ever they find it?

(4) What do they think or believing that the acquisition of it will do for them?

(5) One of course can only know something (in the true sense of to KNOW) from hindsight. Inference and deduction are not knowledge in the strict sense. Hence anything one reads or hears is simply hearsay – one does not know the experience of a tree simply by hearing or reading the word ‘tree’. So, if one is seeking something on the say-so of hearsay then what makes them assume that it is really there at al l- given that human beings can and do at times tell lies? If that which they were seeking from hearsay did not actually exist then they are wasting a whole lifetime not only by seeking it but also possibly damaging their system by the over use of stimulants of one kind or another – or simply wasting so much time in meditative practices?

(6) How many seekers on this list have found what they were looking for?

Many thanks for your anticipated co-operation.

Dick.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2502 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Fw: Quotes and responses
—– Original Message —–
From: Dick Richardson
To: gnosis284
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:26 AM
Subject: Quotes and responses



A few quotes from the Christians book along with comments from a modern day mystic. (according to academic Neurology mystics are people who are suffering from Rapid Brain Deterioration – so come to your own conclusions).


” I tell you this: a rich man will find it hard to enter the kingdom of heaven”.


Why? Easy, because they have too much of the wrong kind of stuff to think about. A person wealthy in worldly goodies will invariably find that all their time is taken up with administrating their wealth; thinking about putting it to work, keeping it, adding to it, and thinking about what to do with it. When is their mind ever free to think about life itself? Let alone relaxing sufficiently to feel its naked essential quality. That is why. When do they get time to simply grab the day and go with the flow? A camel would indeed float through the eye of a needle sooner. The irony is that a wealthy person who does not have to worry about feeding their kids and cleaning out toilets every day truly is in the best position to relax and go with the flow. But they do not. So tough luck. I do not envy them.


“You are the light of the world”!


Well, I think I have said enough about that already in this book. I would just add – ‘know your self’.


“The lamp of your body is the eye”!


The real you is that part which sees and knows – the observer of the observed.


“Put away anxious thought about food and drink”!


You will probably get enough food to eat and drink, and the things which you need here anyway. So do not spend all your time thinking about them and storing it all away. Think of other things and observe life. If you do happen to starve, which is unlikely in a half way decent society, then you will no longer be anxious about food and drink anyway. There are more important things than simply staying alive for a long time.


“Always treat others as you would like them to treat you” !


Not the best way of putting it sunshine – Always treat others the way in which you would like them to treat your children. For you love and care for your children more than you do yourself.


“I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” !


Mystics are here to hack down the weeds of destruction and ego’s.


“You will hear and hear, but never understand; you will look and look, but never see”!


You cannot live life by proxy; and you cannot give experience, knowledge and understanding away. You have to know and understand for your self. The physical ears and eyes will never reveal it.


“The harvest is the end of time – the reapers are angels”!


You cannot know the eternal realm and reap that fruit until time stops moving; and when you are there you will not be a physical entity – but pure primordial mind.


“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure buried in a field”!


Yeah, sure is; buried deep below all other fields of emanation which are brought forth from the point of no duration. Do not go looking in your cabbage patch however.


“Can you not see that that which goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is discharged into the drain: but that which comes out of the mouth has its origins in the heart”!


Yup, sure does – and it reveals the colour of it too.


“If anyone wants to follow me then he must leave self behind”!


Well, you cannot say it any clearer than that can you. And I have been saying the same thing for forty years and throughout this book.


“If any man will let himself be lost he will find his true Self” !


And so it is. Why could they not understand it then; tis plain enough – get lost to get found. Annihilation does a proper job of it. Mind you, you cannot do it by choice so do not try it. But you can put yourself in the way of it happening if you relax at times, and go with the flow; and put the little ego to bed.


“What an unbelieving and perverse generation, how much longer must I endure you”!


I know the feeling chum; but do not break into a sweat about it; for they have not seen what you have seen, and they do not know what you know – be patient lad. And anyway, you cannot stay here for ever as you well know. So, go and cool off in the pond mate.


“In very truth I tell you, we (mystics) speak of what we know, and testify to what we have seen, and yet you all (including neurologists mate) reject our testimony. If you disbelieve me when I talk about things on earth, how are you to believe when I tell you things about heaven”!


Don’t expect too much of them chum; keep your powder dry son.


“You Samaritans (Don’t forget the JW’s mate) worship without knowing what you worship, while we (mystics) worship what we know” !


So what do you expect them to do then mate? They cannot digest that which they have not eaten old son – so damn well explain it to them better. If they do not understand then it is YOUR fault, not theirs.


“As the father raises the dead (resurrection from annihilation) and gives them life, so the son (your true self in paradise) gives life to men”!


Well, you do not give them life old mate, but a little inspiration to live if you are lucky and can get through to them eh; but don’t play at the sodding job, get real mate!


” I will not leave you bereft: I am coming back to you” !


Yup, that is right. These words are what I termed ‘Synetic Dialogue’, which means speaking whilst in this world on behalf of that part of our self which exist in eternity. And your Self will come back to you when time ends. Ipso Facto.


“They will ban you from the synagogue” !


Obviously mate, for they cannot have both priestcraft and truth can they; but do not get your knickers in a twist about that son; for there are better places to be thrown out of are there not; and don’t we know it eh. Anyway, what the hell do you want to go in there for anyway? Go and chat with them down at the Rose and Crown instead – they are more sensible too.


“I came from the father and have come into this world. Now I am leaving the world again and going to the father” !


Yeah, don’t we all eh mate; tis like the magic roundabout innit! I wonder why they used to call home, the father – chauvinist gits eh.


“Although the world does not know thee, I know thee,” !


Yeah, but you ain’t alone mate, so do not get a persecution mania eh.


Well, all this gets boring and tedious. If I was of a mind I could take that book apart and put it back together with what should be in it and deleting all that nonsense which was put there and should not be in it. But even then it would not be saying much about one mere half of it all. The other half is not even there at all – distorted or otherwise.

And to think, that this is probably the most read book in the world. No wonder the world is nuts and feels alienated from truth – and each other. Vile damn book; and the worst virus ever to plague the human mind. The Roman emperor (murdering butcher that he was) slung all this nonsense together in 325 ad. Clever eh. Well, not quite clever enough, for there were just sufficient facts in it for all genuine mystics to recognise what they were stealing it from.

Why do mystics exist in this world? Well, you work it out.

Regards, Dick Richardson.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2503 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Dick writes:

>>>>>[3. You mention coffe quite a bit, How much coffee were you
drinking? Were you
using any other stimulants? What were your drinking habits? ] I did
not drink
coffee until I was 36 years of age. But at that time vary rarely. I
used to
drink milk, water or tea. I drink gallons of coffee now – my second
wife started
me on it.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Very interesting. Did you meet your second wife when you were still
married to the first?

(I am still reading your material but I didn’t want to forget asking
you this question.)

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2504 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
dick writes:

>>>>[5. Are you aware of endogenous DMT? ] I have read a lot of
things in my time
but cannot remember them all now. I may have done and I may not;
remind me.>>>>>>


Here is a link to read.
http://www.maps.org/forum/2002/msg00039.html



DMT (One of the most potent entheogens, contained in various
visionary plants and combinations of plants, and other related
molecules are naturally found in the brain, that are involved in the
entheogenic process.

Your experiences are related to this.

Study of Entheogens is essential in understanding the way to best
maximize the enlightenment of human beings and to solve real
problems. The more reseach, the more answers.


There is a famous Buddhist story called “the gem in the robe” from
the Saddharma Pundarika, that tells a story of a man’s friend who
secretly sews a rare and valuable gemstone into the sleeve of his
drunken and sleepy freind’s robe. Years later after much toil doing
manual labor, the man was ready to give up life. He happened to see
his old friend who asked him why he was so dirty and unkempt and
obviously poor, but wearing the same robe he had many years before.
The man told him his story of a lifetime of suffering and then the
friend told him, “Didn’t you know about the Gem I sewed into your
sleeve? You could have lived like a king”. He tore open the sleeve
and gave the Gem to the man.”

Entheogenic molecule are like this.

Well you have DMT and other things within you and outide of you,
that is the precious Gem. We all already possess it. Entheogen
research is nothing other then learning about these things inside
our brain on many levels.

Entheogenic experience is the fundamental “mystic” experiences which
is like the hidden gem of enlightenment.

It was always there it usually isn’t recognized. Its like a man who
accidentally injects moldy Rye bread and has a sequence of
experiences such as you describe and begins to try to teach others,
but never realizes that his state was a matter of better living
through chemistry. The chemicals in the brain and entheogenic
substances are closely related or identical to the active
ingredients of major visionary plants. Understanding of this
scientifically, is probably the most important thing people have to
do in the world at this time. Talk therapy and guru chatter lead
nowhere. Pure experience lead everywhere. Without entheogens,
people would not have any idea what thee experiences are. They
would not be able to study them with science. Useful applications
for people would go undiscovered. Mental illnesses would never be
cured.

To deny that the use of Visionary Plants and altered Brain
Chemistry, are in some way different, is foolish I believe.

The Schizophrenic or Manic condition and their many halluncinatory
states, are also a matter of brain chemistry,and on many levels,
but their functional level is very different from people who have
enlightening experiences. It is easy to tell the difference. The
best way to understand these states is through experiencing them.
There are people on all different levels.

Entheogens have already proved themselves to be able to turn average
people on—people with virtually no receptivity—and show them
inner experience, which eventually become the classic religious
experience which then develops further into the understanding of
reality as it is. From there people, become motivated and
receptive. First you have to make them receptive. Entheogens have
already proven that they can trigger profound enough experiences to
make people wake up and take notice of things. Entheogen research
is no different then Dentists researching how to fix imperfect and
infected teeth. It is a practical matter.

People aren’t physically perfect and they are all subject to the
standard problems of old age, illnes and death and the harsh reality
of the world as it is today. People need augmenting. Brain
chemistry needs a boost in the right direction. Who knows what
future mirales will be dicovered in the entheogenic molecule family?

Entheogens are the cure for human boredom and stupidity. Talk
gurutherapy doesn’t cut it. Flowery words mean very little and
prayer, (without the ability of focusing the brain chemistry) and
meditation is weak. Entheogens is the appropriate way for people in
general. The world just doesn’t realize that yet.

So your endogenous DMT hiccuped and you were in space, googling over
the vibes.

lol

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2505 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
>>>>>Dick Writes:

[6. Since those main experiences, how often if ever did you have
experiences of
that kind later in your life? ]

One does not need to see the same thing twice. <<<<

Are you sure about that? I agree thi to be the case with most
things, but a person can glance up and think they see a moose and
then look again and it is a tree.


>>>>>But after that first one I had regular psychic experiences for
twenty years and they all taught me something different. But the
last event was another big mystical event twenty years after the
first – the consummatum incarnate – as it had been in transcendence
then so too did it become on earth. I never need the same experience
twice.<<<<<<<<<<<<

Okay this is similar to what people say about Entheogen use. But,
if you consider it, don’t you always feel you had already
experienced those thing before, while they are happening to you?

[7. Did you ever have any impairment in your level of functioning in
daily life, that for instance plagues people with mental illness?
(simply a question, not an assumption or insult) ]

No insult taken – thick skinned you know. I have never been either
physically
ill or mentally ill in my life. I am of about average intelligence;
I learn very
quick. I am exceptionally strong (just born that way) much to the
dismay of
bullies. I have never passed out or fainted in my life – and my
constitution is
that of an ox. All my sensory inputs (and other antenna) are working
fine and I
can still chase sixteen your-old’s around the block. I have a very
good sense
of humour (far better than the Germans you know :- ))) and most folk
think I am
good fun to be with. So no problems in my life. All is just fine –
and five
healthy bright kids.<<<<<<<<<<<

OKAY. So then we can rule out insanity ok? LOL

>>>>>>>>>>I have never held beliefs in my life – knowledge of some
things and ignorance of
other is good enough for me. I was asked to become a Bishop in a
church once –
thank you ma’am but no thanks. I have been offered money for helping
people
($6000 once) same again, thank you ma’am but no thanks. Nobody can
buy me and I
am not for sale.

Hope this answers your questions Sir.

Dick.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

May I ask what you do for a living?

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2506 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: What seekest thou and why?
>>>>1) If a person is seeking something then presumably they do not
have it; for one does not go looking for something which is not
missing. So, could I ask as to what it is they assume or believe
that they are looking for? Please do not say something
like ‘enlightenment’ without defining your terms in a little more
detail.<<<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>(2) One would not go to the trouble of looking for
something without a reason
of some kind. So, why do they want whatever it is they are seeking
for?

I think that is the same question you just asked butit is the same
answer above.

(3) What will they (you) do with it if ever they find it?

(4) What do they think or believing that the acquisition of it will
do for them?

(5) One of course can only know something (in the true sense of to
KNOW) from
hindsight. Inference and deduction are not knowledge in the strict
sense. Hence
anything one reads or hears is simply hearsay – one does not know
the experience
of a tree simply by hearing or reading the word ‘tree’. So, if one
is seeking
something on the say-so of hearsay then what makes them assume that
it is really
there at al l- given that human beings can and do at times tell
lies? If that
which they were seeking from hearsay did not actually exist then
they are
wasting a whole lifetime not only by seeking it but also possibly
damaging their
system by the over use of stimulants of one kind or another – or
simply wasting
so much time in meditative practices?

(6) How many seekers on this list have found what they were looking
for?

Many thanks for your anticipated co-operation.

Dick.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

All people want freedom from strife and suffering, illusory or not
is a moot point.

Words are conventions. “Enlightement” is a word based in experience
that both redefines reality and shapes reality. More wordplay
really doesn’t acomplish much. Theory is simply a convention as
well. Hard science is different. They build TVs and Computers and
discover ways to extend life and make life safer from pollution.
That is the tip of the iceberg. That is the real world.

In the olden days they did a lot of talking. Many books, many
theorie and prayers, but still no end to suffering in sight.
religions, teacher etc., all come and go. But millimeter by
millimeter there is something changing and growing in human
knowledge. Time to extend that study into the inner realm as well.
In the realm of words, old, primitive terms like “enlightenment,”
are way too vague.


Those are my short answers.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2507 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Fw: Quotes and responses
The mystic, is plagued by the thought they are special. They
actually take offense if it is suggested that these experiences they
talk about are really commonplace amonst entheogen users and they
cringe at the thought all people could experience them simply by
eating a plant. hey also react negatively to the idea that other
people could experience so easily, what they thought was really
unique to them.

Take a while and think on it that okay?

dc

— In egodeath@yahoogroups.com, “Dick Richardson” <dick@p…> wrote:
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Dick Richardson
> To: gnosis284
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:26 AM
> Subject: Quotes and responses
>
>
>
> A few quotes from the Christians book along with comments from a
modern day mystic. (according to academic Neurology mystics are
people who are suffering from Rapid Brain Deterioration – so come to
your own conclusions).
>
>
> ” I tell you this: a rich man will find it hard to enter the
kingdom of heaven”.
>
>
> Why? Easy, because they have too much of the wrong kind of stuff
to think about. A person wealthy in worldly goodies will invariably
find that all their time is taken up with administrating their
wealth; thinking about putting it to work, keeping it, adding to it,
and thinking about what to do with it. When is their mind ever free
to think about life itself? Let alone relaxing sufficiently to feel
its naked essential quality. That is why. When do they get time to
simply grab the day and go with the flow? A camel would indeed float
through the eye of a needle sooner. The irony is that a wealthy
person who does not have to worry about feeding their kids and
cleaning out toilets every day truly is in the best position to
relax and go with the flow. But they do not. So tough luck. I do not
envy them.
>
>
> “You are the light of the world”!
>
>
> Well, I think I have said enough about that already in this book.
I would just add – ‘know your self’.
>
>
> “The lamp of your body is the eye”!
>
>
> The real you is that part which sees and knows – the observer of
the observed.
>
>
> “Put away anxious thought about food and drink”!
>
>
> You will probably get enough food to eat and drink, and the things
which you need here anyway. So do not spend all your time thinking
about them and storing it all away. Think of other things and
observe life. If you do happen to starve, which is unlikely in a
half way decent society, then you will no longer be anxious about
food and drink anyway. There are more important things than simply
staying alive for a long time.
>
>
> “Always treat others as you would like them to treat you” !
>
>
> Not the best way of putting it sunshine – Always treat others the
way in which you would like them to treat your children. For you
love and care for your children more than you do yourself.
>
>
> “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” !
>
>
> Mystics are here to hack down the weeds of destruction and ego’s.
>
>
> “You will hear and hear, but never understand; you will look and
look, but never see”!
>
>
> You cannot live life by proxy; and you cannot give experience,
knowledge and understanding away. You have to know and understand
for your self. The physical ears and eyes will never reveal it.
>
>
> “The harvest is the end of time – the reapers are angels”!
>
>
> You cannot know the eternal realm and reap that fruit until time
stops moving; and when you are there you will not be a physical
entity – but pure primordial mind.
>
>
> “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure buried in a field”!
>
>
> Yeah, sure is; buried deep below all other fields of emanation
which are brought forth from the point of no duration. Do not go
looking in your cabbage patch however.
>
>
> “Can you not see that that which goes into the mouth passes into
the stomach and is discharged into the drain: but that which comes
out of the mouth has its origins in the heart”!
>
>
> Yup, sure does – and it reveals the colour of it too.
>
>
> “If anyone wants to follow me then he must leave self behind”!
>
>
> Well, you cannot say it any clearer than that can you. And I have
been saying the same thing for forty years and throughout this book.
>
>
> “If any man will let himself be lost he will find his true Self” !
>
>
> And so it is. Why could they not understand it then; tis plain
enough – get lost to get found. Annihilation does a proper job of
it. Mind you, you cannot do it by choice so do not try it. But you
can put yourself in the way of it happening if you relax at times,
and go with the flow; and put the little ego to bed.
>
>
> “What an unbelieving and perverse generation, how much longer must
I endure you”!
>
>
> I know the feeling chum; but do not break into a sweat about it;
for they have not seen what you have seen, and they do not know what
you know – be patient lad. And anyway, you cannot stay here for ever
as you well know. So, go and cool off in the pond mate.
>
>
> “In very truth I tell you, we (mystics) speak of what we know, and
testify to what we have seen, and yet you all (including
neurologists mate) reject our testimony. If you disbelieve me when I
talk about things on earth, how are you to believe when I tell you
things about heaven”!
>
>
> Don’t expect too much of them chum; keep your powder dry son.
>
>
> “You Samaritans (Don’t forget the JW’s mate) worship without
knowing what you worship, while we (mystics) worship what we know” !
>
>
> So what do you expect them to do then mate? They cannot digest
that which they have not eaten old son – so damn well explain it to
them better. If they do not understand then it is YOUR fault, not
theirs.
>
>
> “As the father raises the dead (resurrection from annihilation)
and gives them life, so the son (your true self in paradise) gives
life to men”!
>
>
> Well, you do not give them life old mate, but a little inspiration
to live if you are lucky and can get through to them eh; but don’t
play at the sodding job, get real mate!
>
>
> ” I will not leave you bereft: I am coming back to you” !
>
>
> Yup, that is right. These words are what I termed ‘Synetic
Dialogue’, which means speaking whilst in this world on behalf of
that part of our self which exist in eternity. And your Self will
come back to you when time ends. Ipso Facto.
>
>
> “They will ban you from the synagogue” !
>
>
> Obviously mate, for they cannot have both priestcraft and truth
can they; but do not get your knickers in a twist about that son;
for there are better places to be thrown out of are there not; and
don’t we know it eh. Anyway, what the hell do you want to go in
there for anyway? Go and chat with them down at the Rose and Crown
instead – they are more sensible too.
>
>
> “I came from the father and have come into this world. Now I am
leaving the world again and going to the father” !
>
>
> Yeah, don’t we all eh mate; tis like the magic roundabout innit! I
wonder why they used to call home, the father – chauvinist gits eh.
>
>
> “Although the world does not know thee, I know thee,” !
>
>
> Yeah, but you ain’t alone mate, so do not get a persecution mania
eh.
>
>
> Well, all this gets boring and tedious. If I was of a mind I could
take that book apart and put it back together with what should be in
it and deleting all that nonsense which was put there and should not
be in it. But even then it would not be saying much about one mere
half of it all. The other half is not even there at all – distorted
or otherwise.
>
> And to think, that this is probably the most read book in the
world. No wonder the world is nuts and feels alienated from truth –
and each other. Vile damn book; and the worst virus ever to plague
the human mind. The Roman emperor (murdering butcher that he was)
slung all this nonsense together in 325 ad. Clever eh. Well, not
quite clever enough, for there were just sufficient facts in it for
all genuine mystics to recognise what they were stealing it from.
>
> Why do mystics exist in this world? Well, you work it out.
>
> Regards, Dick Richardson.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2508 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Equivalence of different mystic camps and allegories
Even so wise as Gnosis magazine misses that point when striving to make
absurdly fine divisions between camps of Jewish mysticism, thus tending back
toward literalism; whether you frame the mystic-state allegory in terms of
“union with God” or “ascending to a vision of God”, that totally amounts to
the same equivalent thing; either way, we have the same essential thing:
allegorical description of the intense mystic altered state.

Without recognizing that essence, scholars instead make themselves look busy
and perceptive by introducing *irrelevant* artificial boundaries and groupings
within e.g. Jewish mysticism — all premised on the incorrect fundamental
assumption that mystic experiencing was rare and difficult to induce. Yes
there may be degrees of mysticism, but mystic allegory is mystic allegory,
whether “seeing God’s throne” or “merging with God”; whether “going to heaven”
or “avoiding rebirth” — the basic meaning is the same.

All the various camps and allegory systems were involved in psychoactive
sacraments providing full and rich abundance of mystic experiencing, so it is
a complete misunderstanding to think of the camps as being significantly or
substantially different. They all had the same mystic altered state available
on tap, in spades, and these allegory systems are just different ways of
expressing the same basic type of experiential insights and the same kind of
spiritual adventures.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 2509 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Unlocking the Bible Codes – Found Codes
The only “codes” of prophecy in the scriptures are humorous allegory mixtures
allusing to the domains of the intense mystic altered state and the domain of
socio-political domain, using kingdoms and kingships as allegory for ego death
and rebirth experiences. *That* is the *true* “hidden code” in the Bible.
Astrology and healing and magic are other included domains of allegory,
involved the same way.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience
Group: egodeath Message: 2510 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Another tool to help destroy / is egodeath beneficial to societ
Thought-provoking. Coherent; I have to consider whether Peart actually had or
should have had that in mind when writing the lyrics.


Merkur wrote:
>”Another toy will help destroy
>The elder race of man
>Forget about your silly whim
>It doesn’t fit the plan.” (Rush, 2112)
>
>
>Usually in the beginning of experimenting one holds the view
>that wide-spread use [of LSD]can only but be very helpful to society.
>As one becomes experienced it’s quite clear what egodath-experiencing
>is about: the shift to no control/cosmic-determinism-revealation.
>
>So, “another toy” is the tripper which gets turned on and is going
>to turn on others, thereby destroying the “elder race of man” (which
>belives in free will). The “silly whim” of the tripper is his plan of
>being able to make the world better (by using LSD).
>”It does’nt fit the plan” confirms the mistake of the tripper to think
>like he does (in the beginning).
Group: egodeath Message: 2511 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: The very late invention of the Cross
Takes a little while to load:
http://hometown.aol.com/havrylak/x-symbols.doc

Visual comparison of the 3rd century BCE Achaean League coin “Chi-Alpha”
symbol with two 4th century CE “Chi-Rho” symbols:
http://www.aug.edu/augusta/iconography/crucifixion.html


The reason the cross was not used is because Christianity wasn’t dreamed up
until well after the end of antiquity in 476. All “early” writings are much
later forgeries, back-projected by many centuries. All evidence we have is
literary, and that is forged and back-dated. The origins of Christianity lie
in the Medieval or Renaissance era, which happened only shortly after the fall
of Rome. The center of gravity and origin of Christianity as a canonical
formal institution is the Medieval and Renaissance era, *not* late antiquity
(50 BC–476 CE).

The canon was established around the year we call 1525, not 180. All the
battle between gnostics and orthodoxy actually occurred prior to and during
the Reformation, and was falsely back-projected into Jewish and Roman
antiquity, which was then illusorily pushed even further back into the
venerable Past by inserting some number of invented centuries.


The New Chronology: The Dark Ages Didn’t Exist — time falsification, Edwin
Johnson, Heribert Illig, Uwe Topper, Hans-Ulrich Niemitz, Christoph Marx, Jean
Hardouin, Wilhelm Kammeier
http://www.egodeath.com/newchronology.htm

Edwin Johnson, A Radical Advocate of Chronology Criticism — Uwe Topper on
Edwin Johnson
http://www.egodeath.com/uwetopperonedwinjohnson.htm

Study Version of Edwin Johnson’s “The Pauline Epistles – Re-Studied and
Explained”, 1894 — Reformatted copy for increased comprehensibility by
Michael Hoffman Oct. 8, 2003. Proposes that the years 700-1400 didn’t exist,
and that Christianity, the “early” Christian texts, Paul, the Gospels, the
Church Fathers, the Dark Ages, and the Middle Ages were literary inventions
fabricated in competing monasteries around 1500.
http://www.egodeath.com/edwinjohnsonpaulineepistles.htm

— Michael Hoffman
Group: egodeath Message: 2512 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Cosmic escape: read mysticism allegorically/descriptively, not lite
“Cosmic escape” is nothing but a humorous mystic-state allegory or
description, alluding to the desire to escape from the control-loss
instability entailed in perceiving frozen block-universe determinism.
Literalism is most rampant in interpreting mystic allegory and taking it
literally, then dividing up mystics into camps based on what they “believe”,
when in actuality, they don’t believe any of the allegory *literally*; it’s
all just equivalent reportive description of the same class and mode of
experiencing.


— Michael Hoffman
Group: egodeath Message: 2513 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: On-topic debate on ego death
I can’t reply now, so must just confirm for others’ posting:


>So, OK then, let us talk about ego death – in so far as this list
>allows one to talk of it then. Is ego death which is not drug
>induced allowed on this list?


Yes. Serious on-topic contributions are much valued, regardless of position.
I am very pro-debate, unlike common spiritual discussion groups. I get more
out of postings I disagree with than most simple agreement.


>Mystics should keep their mouth shut for at least twenty years after
>their first big experience – for there is more dear Horatio; and a
>little learning can be a dangerous thing if one assumes that it is
>all the learning there exists to be done.


That’s terrible needless prohibition. People must choose between that view
and mine: I say, study and have mystic experiencing immediately and
ergonomically in full, and speak richly of it immediately without hindrance.
Choose whose paradigm you listen to — that which is premised on difficulty
and long waiting, or ease and immediacy on tap. There is no substantial
reason to wait, delay, and silence oneself.

If you like the paradigm of difficulty, waiting, and long silence, you will
get your wish for a version of mysticism that pushes away mysticism into a
hard-to-attain realm. I define and choose the theory of immediate
lightning-path mysticism without delay. The slow path is actually just an
excuse for no path; that is, for poor effectiveness.


— Michael Hoffman
Group: egodeath Message: 2514 From: Michael Hoffman Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
>Try reading the book about him written by a member of his own family, the
book is called – The Genuine Fraud.


Some reading:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Genuine+Fake+Watts+moni
ca

The only thing unbalanced with Watts was that he merely put in a footnote his
point that mystics commonly reject “personal free will”. My work largely
corrects and realigns Watts’.


— Michael Hoffman
http://www.egodeath.com — simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
experience. The essence, paradigm, origin, and fountainhead of religion is
the use of visionary plants to routinely trigger the intense mystic altered
state, producing loose cognitive association binding, which then produces an
experience of frozen block-universe determinism with a single, pre-existing,
ever-existing future. The return of the ordinary state of consciousness is
allegorized as a transcendence of Necessity or cosmic determinism. Myth
describes this mystic-state experience. Initiation is classically a series of
some 8 visionary-plant sessions, interspersed with study of perennial
philosophy. Most religion is a distortion, corruption, literalization, and
cooptation of this standard initiation system.
Group: egodeath Message: 2515 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Dear DC,

It would be nice of course if you were to tell me your name, you know mine, but I do of course realise that some folk are a little shy of becoming identified – I often wonder why; I have nothing to hide, but there you go. First I should thank you for going to all the trouble of writing all those emails, that of course is appreciated irrespective as to whether I give credence to many of the things which you claim therein.

To some extent of course you have me over a barrel in the sense that I cannot talk from the experience of hindsight when it comes to drugs or even trying or wanting to induce metaphysical experiences – I did not even know they existed to be found when I found them; and I was looking for nothing other than the answers to questions (the perennial questions) which thinking people have always asked themselves – and that was the result of it – not what I had eaten but the thought process life-style and questioning things – ‘ask and you will receive’. (read the whole book and albeit that it is an old one) – the new one is called ‘Psychognosis and the Dignity of Man’. It will be on-line shortly at a website called Psychognosis.net

You go on to ask many more questions. I have no objections to answering all your question – for I have been doing that for forty years all over the world. But before I do so I would like to ask you just a few more.

The first one is this.. (1). What makes you assume that I feel that I am special when everything which I write in my book says otherwise? I am no different from anybody else – nicer than some and not as nice as others: brighter than some and not as bright as others, so on and so forth. If what one says is going to be ignored then there is no point in human communication. But I have found over the last forty years that there is much point and effectiveness in human communication. Many people (some well known in the world) have even stopped trying to kill themselves after reading my books and poems – and yes, I too was gobsmacked when they told me that at first. So the question is this.. Given that kind of experience is so common (as you claim) then why are they not all writing about it. Genuine mystics try to put themselves out of business by trying to give it all away, and albeit only by words; for I cannot give them the experience and the effects. But it seems that YOU can – so go ahead and give it to them – and starting with all the criminals and undesirables.

(2). Given that it is the current paradigm that all mystics are suffering from a mental problem and rapid brain deterioration then why would people want to induce it anyway?

(3) For what effect would they want to induce it? It has not changed me or my lifestyle one jot – nor even my personality. True, it has revealed things which I did not know existed, and hence my thinking about the nature of reality; but it has not changed me – I am still the same simple cockney kid that I was during the war; I loved life then and I do now. I loved science and the physical world then, and I still do. I did not fear death then and I still do not. I never worried about myself then and I still don’t. I could go on like this for a long time – but you get my gist eh. It has not changed me or improved my life style at all. True, I seemed to have been able to help others with it – but I always tried to help people anyway if I could. So, what is the point of it and why go in search of it? I did not ask for it; I did not want it; I did not search for it – it just happened along; just like a cold or a toothache does. Where is the big deal that they all rave about? Why are they all in search of it?

(4) All governments want a better society, better people, smarter people, more peaceful people. So why is your movement not telling governments to put this stuff in the drinking reservoirs? Would it perhaps be due to governments being in the pocket of business organisations? If so then pop it in the reservoirs yourself.

(5) Personally finding oneself knowing these things whilst living in this world such as it is, is not fun at all. Much of the time I wished that I had never known these things; and life then would be much easier, no heart aches; nothing seen as waste, etc. Mystics weep for humanity – do you people do that too?

(6) Henceforth I have seen the reasons for the questions which you have asked; but not so with some of the new ones. What difference does it make when I met my second wife, for example. Or is this just a friendly chat maybe? Given that this particular experience (the ground of our being – and then the consummatum incarnate event) are so common then why are all you guys not writing about it; and also why bother to question somebody about such a common experience? I miss the point here DC. I never bother to ask people as to what effect seeing the postman delivering mail has done for them; so why are you asking these other questions?

(7) I recall you saying that you worked in some kind of clinic, please tell me more; what exactly is your job and rank within that field? What books have you written and where can they be found? How old are you and where are you from?

(8) How many members of this chat group are there, and how many of them are active participants on it – and do they all agree with everything you say?

I have of course over the years met the type of people (often the meditative types) who say “Oh yes I have experienced all those things”, but when questioning them subtly and in ways which I developed of questioning people who made claims, I discovered that they had not experienced such things at all – false guru’s you see; and I know how to take them apart quite easily. I got called ‘Dick the Guru Buster’ many years ago and the name kind of stuck. I have had them in tears would you believe. I am a nice guy they claim, but I can also be a regular bastard when it comes to folk who mess with peoples minds don’t you know.

But anyway, one more question if may.. (9). What is your life philosophy and what do you want from and for people – and why?

Regards, Dick the Guru Buster – otherwise also know as Merlin of Exmoor, or Sir Richard de Growl Tiger. (and many more :- ))) Oh I have also had a lot of fun over the years due to this.



—– Original Message —–
From: rialcnis2000
To: egodeath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: [egodeath] Re: Ego death then, so be it.



Dick writes:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2516 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
How come you keep using the term ‘of the intense mystic altered state’. as though it were some kind of big deal when one of your colleagues here keeps telling me that it is a common event and not an advanced state at all? Are you people who advocate deliberate sensory enhancement not in some kind of uniform agreement with each other?

Dick.


—– Original Message —–
From: Michael Hoffman
To: egodeath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:18 PM
Subject: RE: [egodeath] Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysticism




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2517 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Evolving Psychic Archetypes
I quite liked the well documented and recent story of the woman who was lost in a ‘white-out’ (blinding thick snow drifts) during a mountain climb. She survived conditions which the human body does not usually survive. Apart from well below zero temperature and surviving, (I think it was two nights), she had no food or shelter. She knew that she had to walk to a place which offered more chance of being found. During this walking she encountered ‘road blocks’, barriers, in her path. These road blocks were not real, they were visions which looked solid. But when she tried to touch them she realised that they were not really there at all. She had the sense however to realise that something was trying to guide her path (knowledge without the knowing or understanding of how or why). She put these visions down to an objective entity which she called a ‘Guardian Angel’. (by virtue of brain washing; just like the Ferry-Man myth, and which many people do just that; by virtue of their mental conditioning and conventional thinking). Well, it certainly worked however, for she lived to tell the story when in fact she should most certainly not have done according to accepted physics and psychology.


‘Guardian Angeles’ have been well documented and spoken of since the year dot in human terms on earth. The consensus belief however is that they are some kind of objective ‘Christian type god-creature’ or its ‘subordinate’ out there in physical space and time. Not so. Before they make assumptions as to what these things really are then it would be better to come to learn a little more about the deeper nature of oneself and our various connected inner parts and the very mysterious fields of inner energy. Not only can these fields of energy be directly known and experienced by being IN them; but it would seem that some, albeit a very few, do have some kind of potential to tap into these energy fields at times by their own effort and will. An interesting point in this case is the ‘road barrier’ – for that is a modern day implement. Cave men did not see road barriers did they; hence archetypes are still being formed within the psyche; ones that you and I will understand today in a modern world. Hence the Soul evolves. As the human mind evolves and we become conscious of more things and more connections of things, then so too do the psychic experiences evolve, in order that the topside mind can understand their meaning in some way. But our essential nature (or spirit) does not evolve. It is what it is, and always so.

rwr



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2518 From: Khem Caigan Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Dick Richardson wrote:
<SNIPS>
> I have a very good sense of humour (far better than the Germans you
> know :- ))) and most folk think I am good fun to be with. So no
> problems in my life. All is just fine – and five healthy bright kids.

Sie sind ein voreingenommener Haufen von Schlange Fäkalien 😉
Group: egodeath Message: 2519 From: Khem Caigan Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Dick doth schriebble:
<SNIPS>
> Ker-Riced, talk about human communication – it has not lifted
> itself above the mire of mere babble as yet. And some of them
> learn two languages to talk double-babble.

So molte lingue, e Dick è un tumore nato da un mucchio
di feci di topo 😉
Group: egodeath Message: 2520 From: Khem Caigan Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Dick doth schriebble:
>
> Try reading the book about him [Watts] written by a
> member of his own family, the book is called – The Genuine Fraud.
> So once again assumption is on the rampage here as I have already
> pointed out. Do some reading friend. Watt’s NEVER KNEW the things
> he was preaching about – and he died trying to find them by way of
> drugs. Moreover, what Watts led people to believe that he knew was
> not even a fraction of what exists to be known and experienced.
> Ipso Facto.

And why would we be interested in a hack-job cobbled together by some
disgruntled nitwit family member capitalizing on the notoriety of Watts
in order to grab a few seconds of the limelight they couldn’t possibly
achieve except by whinging about him? Typical low-class bigot roundhead
gambit, spreading gossip about their betters in a feeble attempt to make
themselves seem more substantial than the straw dogs they’re waving
around.

But, as it happens, there is no book called _The Genuine Fraud_ penned
by some disgruntled nitwit family relation of Alan Watts.

It’s just more of Dick’s crack-brain illiterate ad hominem having a
spot of fun with a biography written by one of Alan’s dearest friends
and supporters, Monica Furlong:

Genuine fake : a biography of Alan Watts
London : Unwin Paperbacks, 1986.
by Monica Furlong
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G62525786

Also available as:

Zen Effects : The Life of Alan Watts
Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1986.
by Monica Furlong
http://www.skylightpaths.com/books/322.htm

Here’s the blurb from the biography:

“Through his widely popular books and lectures, Alan Watts (1915-1973)
did more to introduce Eastern philosophy and religion to Western minds
than any figure before or since. Watts touched the lives of many. He was
a renegade Zen teacher, an Anglican priest, a lecturer, an academic, an
entertainer, a leader of the San Francisco renaissance, and the author
of more than thirty books, including The Way of Zen, Psychotherapy East
and West and The Spirit of Zen.

Monica Furlong followed Watts’s travels from his birthplace in England
to the San Francisco Bay Area where he ultimately settled, conducting
in-depth interviews with his family, colleagues, and intimate friends,
to provide an analysis of the intellectual, cultural, and deeply
personal influences behind this truly extraordinary life.”

Monica Furlong is an author and journalist living in London. She is the
author of many books, including Merton: A Biography; Therese of Lisieux;
Visions and Longings: Medieval Women Mystics; and Women Pray: Voices
through the Ages, from Many Faiths, Cultures, and Traditions

——====oo0oo====——

Dick often admonishes others to read [hypocritical twit that he is],
but it is clear that Dick has never read Furlong’s _Genuine Fake_.

If he had, he would know that it was Alan himself who originally
coined the phrase “Genuine Fake”, in reference to folks who believe they
are ‘spiritually enlightened’ in some sense, and then for self-serving
purposes deem themselves guides or teachers. Such individuals are very
sincere about what they do, but they are, in effect, delusional, and
they spend their lives going about enlisting other people in that
delusion.

Folks like you, Dick.

——====oo0oo====——

“In classical drama the persona was the megaphone-mouth mask worn for
the open-air theater. And by a curious degradation of words, the word
“person” has come to mean the real individual and when Harry Emerson
Fosdick wrote “How to be a Real Person”, the real title of his book
should have been “How to be a Genuine Fake.”

from:
The Relevance of Oriental Philosophy,
a lecture by Alan Watts
http://members.aol.com/chasklu/religion/private/watts.htm

——====oo0oo====——

It is also clear that Dick has absolutely no compunction about
shamelessly misrepresenting Furlong’s work. All in a good cause,
eh, Dick?

In fact, Monica Furlong was herself an advocate of psychedelics,
as we can see by referring to her obituary in The Guardian:

——====oo0oo====——

Monica Furlong (d.2003 at 72),
Christian writer and feminist,
authored her autobiography:
“Bird of Paradise.”

born January 17 1930;
died January 14 2003

A dedicated writer, feminist and Christian, she threw her considerable
moral authority behind the campaign for women priests

Michael De-la-Noy
Friday January 17, 2003
The Guardian


Monica Furlong, who has died of cancer aged 72, would have achieved
distinction through her writings alone. But she was always on the
lookout for good causes to espouse, and once she had thrown in her lot
with the Movement for the Ordination of Women, and with the aims of
secular feminism in general, she became to many women – and to many men
as well, especially homosexuals – not just a beacon of light, more a
flaming torch.

Like many intellectuals, her life was, in some ways, a protracted
search for truth, accompanied by frequent disillusionment, most notably
with the organized structures of society. In her book With Love To The
Church (1965), she wrote, more in sorrow than in anger, of her
disillusion with the apparent inability of the established Church to
touch the hearts and minds of men and women of goodwill.

Very much a child of her time, she experimented with LSD in her late
30s, and had the distinction of seeing her book Travelling In (1971),
describing the experience, banned from Church of Scotland bookshops.
Aware in later life of the dangers of drugs, she nevertheless always
regarded the drug-taking, together with a Freudian psychoanalysis in her
early 50s, as a vital part of her psychological and spiritual growth.

Obituary
Monica Furlong: 1930-2003
An appreciation
http://www.stammering.org/mfurlong.html

——====oo0oo====——

No one is going to formulate anything like an educated opinion
about Watts by way of mere hearsay, regardless.

I at least knew the man as a friend, face-to-face, *and* I have
read his work, and doubt that you can say the same.

Be that as it may, you said that “the hippie movement was originally
founded by such *frauds*”, which is a plural construction, and it will
be rather amusing to see you attempt to dispatch Huxley & Heard & Wilson
using the same chop-logic ( ‘ipso facto’? ) and ad hominem slurs you
employed on Alan. If you dare.

You’ve made your bed, Dick, and you ought at least to show enough
courage and integrity to lie in it. But I doubt very much that you will,
because, hypocritical cowardly yobbo swine that you are, you *have* no
courage or integrity.


Cors in Manu Domine,


~ Khem Caigan
<Khem@…>
http://profiles.yahoo.com/khemcaigan

——====oo0oo====——

How to be a genuine fake

A double-bind game is a game with self-contradictory rules, a game
doomed to perpetual self-frustration – like trying to invent a
perpetual-motion machine in terms of Newtonian mechanics, or trying to
trisect any given angle with a straight-edge and compass. The social
double-bind game can be phrased in several ways:

The first rule of this game is that it is not a game.
Everybody must play.
You must love us.
You must go on living.
Be yourself, but play a consistent and acceptable role.
Control yourself and be natural.
Try to be sincere.

Essentially, this game is a demand for spontaneous behaviour of certain
kinds.

Living, loving, being natural or sincere – all these are spontaneous
forms of behaviour: they happen “of themselves” like digesting food or
growing hair. As soon as they are forced they acquire that unnatural,
contrived, and phony atmosphere which everyone deplores – weak and
scent-less like forced flowers and tasteless like forced fruit. Life and
love generate effort, but effort will not generate them.

Faith – in life, in other people, and in oneself – is the attitude of
allowing the spontaneous to BE spontaneous, in its own way and in its
own time. This is, of course, risky because life and other people do not
always respond to faith as we might wish. Faith is always a gamble
because life itself is a gambling game with what must appear, in the
hiding aspect of the game, to be colossal stakes. But to take the gamble
out of the game, to try to make winning a dead certainty, is to achieve
a certainty which is indeed dead.

The alternative to a community based on mutual trust is a totalitarian
police-state, a community in which spontaneity is virtually forbidden.

from
The Book: On the taboo against knowing who you are,
by Alan Watts.

The Life and Work of Alan Watts
http://www.saybrook.edu/app/lg/cr3075.html

The Joyous Cosmology
http://www.lycaeum.org/books/transcribed.shtml
Group: egodeath Message: 2521 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Fw: Advocates of Mind altering drugs.
—– Original Message —–
From: Dick Richardson
To: gnosis284
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 6:05 PM
Subject: Advocates of Mind altering drugs.


DC claims.. [All people want freedom from strife and suffering, illusory or not
is a moot point. ] (Whilst elsewhere asserting that mind altering drugs effect this end result)

It is of course (I imagine anyway, for I cannot know) such that it would be nice to have food fall off tree’s into our mouth; to never have to go to the toilet or to waste time washing; or doing the washing up and changing nappies (dypers) or having to go to work to earn cash to eat and pay the rent etc. It would be nice not to have to see ones friends and family suffering from colds, flue, and things much worse even such as wars an earthquakes etc. But, given that the physical world is not a complete free ride for us then these things are not insurmountable problems – and it does not last for ever after all; so a little graft and a little worry at times is no big deal in the vast complex scheme of things.


Now, when one reads anything which beings ‘All People’ one instantly thinks – Oh Ker-Riced, here we go again. It is blatantly obvious from reading history that a number of philosophies and religions, psychological practices and rituals etc, have been set up in the claim of relieving human pain and suffering. None of them has ever worked – look at the world around you. Some knew this enterprise was useless so they promised better things in the next world – providing you behaved yourself in this one and drop your coins in their collection box.


The latest of these crazes they say is enlightenment by way of drugs ‘The god within’ drugs. Moreover, they claim that they are far more effective for inducing the profound transcendent mystic experience than is that of spontaneous mystical experiences. However, and irrespective of any possible legitimacy of the claim or otherwise – so what if it did? Mystical experience (even the deepest and most profound kind) do not alleviate human pain and suffering, and social discontent and arguments. So, why even chance zapping your mind out and damaging your health for an effect which is not going to eliminate the problem for which they assume they are seeking it that way?


It is indeed true that some human beings have been taking drugs for spiritual experience since time out of mind. But what major social effect has it had for the better? We still go to war; they still want what the other bloke has got; they still rape and kill, pillage and plunder. Just assuming that either by way of taking drugs, or by whatever other unsolicited triggers cause this shift of conscious existence, that everybody had the same experience tonight. Would it prevent human suffering and pain? Of course not.

True, it may well change some of their ideas and feelings about life; but it would not take away the struggle of human existence, pain, natural daily fears and worries, responsibilities, heartaches, and illness and death. So, why the big deal with regard to the assertion that drugs are the way to illumination and a spiritual life on earth (whatever that is supposed to mean in their terms)? Altered states of conscious will not stop the physical world being what the physical word is and as to how it works. There is no value in substituting one bum religion with another one. Why are not all the drug scene folk making a better world for us in their new found enlightenment – or are they simply enjoying it in private – spirituality did they say????


Dick Richardson






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2522 From: Dick Richardson Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Irrespective as to who wrote the book and why (and fraud/fake it is all the same – and a long time ago since I read it) one also knows from the hindsight of listening to him (and all his tapes which I have also listened to; as well as reading three or four of his books years ago – The Wisdom of Insecurity – one which if recall the title was about Happiness or the search for; and a few others) that the things he was making believe to know (from Zen Buddhism – and presumably from life experience itself) did not correlate with what is learned in the transcendent mystical experience which he was advocating finding. He was a false guru.

If you or I talk about something which we know from experience then fine, talk about it. But if you or I talk about something which we have not known (and yet leading people to believe that we have known) then that is a false guru chum. And he died looking for it with drugs; as many of them have done and are still doing on a daily basis. Were not the Lake district poets (among many others) all familiar with all these problems years ago.

All your childish insults by the way roll off like water off a ducks back son – at least a couple of people here are presenting an argument (worth listening to and arguing with) without the childish gibbering which comes from your emails. Try growing up a little eh – especially from one who, we can only presume, has found enlightenment (or whatever you want to call it) by dabbling in drugs. Don’t change me son, go change the world eh. Start with yourself. And if you think writing in German to a guy that does not speak it is funny then that proves my point eh. Are you trying to make the others laugh? Are they laughing chum? Tis pathetic my dear Sir. Try doing something useful and telling me about the positive social effect of taking drugs as you see it; which presumably you also advocate. I listen to people, but not rude sods like you who think they are better than anyone else because they speak two or ten languages; and or who does not agree with them from evidence of past experience. But, no, I am not the person to convince – the world is. Are they listening to you – and with that attitude of yours? Quit the literary and academic scene and tell me about transcendence Mr.

Dick.

—– Original Message —–
From: Khem Caigan
To: Egodeath Group
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [egodeath] Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysticism




Dick doth schriebble:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2523 From: wrmspirit Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: (no subject)
When I, you and/or me, become made into something and/or someone that must
fight something else in an attempt to destroy it, then I, you and/or me, become
nothing more than the continuation of the structure of religion, which taught
discrimination, fear, and destruction.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2524 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
How come you keep using the term ‘of the intense mystic altered
state’. as
though it were some kind of big deal when one of your colleagues
here keeps
telling me that it is a common event and not an advanced state at
all? Are you
people who advocate deliberate sensory enhancement not in some kind
of uniform
agreement with each other?

Dick.<<<<<<<<<<<

The thing is you are trying to nail words down into a fixed context.

Intense Mytic states are ‘rare’ compared to the masses state of day
to day life.

Take a handful of serious entheogenically-minded young people for
instance and intense mystic states become commonplace. Even among
entheogens user who are not properly prepared, they tend to try to
block out their intense mystic states out of fear or ego resistence.

The descriptions you posted of your intense mystic states are very
much the same as early Entheogen use. You do not know what
triggered it, while a Entheogen user will usually know that it arose
from changes in chemistry, that opened those door to a different
perception.

Let me say again, when I read your experiences, it sounds virtually
identical to a mild to decent dose of a entheogen taken by a person
who was not yet aware of what was going to be happening.


This should ring a bell for you. YOUR brain contains the endogenous
DMT and science doesn’t yet know what all else or all the mechnisms
involved. Something triggered that experience in you, that are
identical in style and report, to common entheogenic
experience……again this should make that idea lightbulb, light up
above your head.

Old Zen Proverb. If you see the horns of a bull behind the fence
you know there is a bull behind the fence. (no one is holding up
horns to trick you.)


It is not fully understood scientifically, YET, by any means, but
experientially, it is understood by people who were able to pursue
personal research.


dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2525 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 13/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Dick writes:

>>>>>The first one is this.. (1). What makes you assume that I feel
that I am special when everything which I write in my book says
otherwise? <<<<<<<<<<<<<



You aren’t the first and you won’t be the last person,
preaching “spiritual equality” of people, while at the same time poo
pooing entheogens. You are also not the first or last person to try
to get other people to share your experience. You are not the first
or the last person to imagine that you are able to impart knowledge
to people. The fact is, “people.” can only learn by actual
experience, otherwise all there is left is dogma and the people’s
interpretation of that dogma.

Put a hundred, non-experienced people in an environment and teach
them all the basics of meditation and gnosis. To one half of the
people tell them anything you want. Teach the other half of them
the most impotant pointers about entheogenic experience then give
that half of them a good dose of a strong enthegen once every two
weeks. Wait a month. Then interview the people about the
experiences they had. The experiences will differ by such a great
magnitude, that the 50 person control group will be hardly effected
at all, while the entheogenic group will be reporting incredible
revelations about life and generally be in joyful awe.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2526 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
It would be nice of course if you were to tell me your name, you
know mine>>>>>>

My name is David Cole. I always just sign “dc.” My entheogen
usage was in the mid to late 60’s. I no longer work in the psych
field, I got out of that 5 years ago, after 18 years of being in the
trenches. I have a master degree in psych and did experimental
work, years ago with holography and laser optics, when that was a
brand new thing. I liked the paradigm. Today I do many things
including 3D animation art. I run a computer business. I am 56 years
old. For a few decades I was an involved buddhist, until I decided
it was futile to expect the masses of people to make any great
gains, without having had the entheogenic experience. Now I am
still a Buddhsit but most Buddhist would think I am a loose cannon
preaching “drug use.”

I raised kids etc.

During my experiences I recapitulated the past present and future
and saw the nature of things using entheogens and Buddhist-style
meditation. I have spent a great deal of time, in the study of
behavior and people, for the sake of making correlations between
religious experience and entheogenic experience and High-Buddhism,
Life-State theory. I am an expert in Buddhist mandala imagery and
Indian, Chinese and Japanese mythology and it’s far off origins in
entheogenic experience and the forces that imprint people or
deprogram them. I study receptivity and brain washing and cosmic
experience and try to keep it objective. I know that people tend to
literalize things and miss the underlying meaning of the ancient
documentation as well as there own imature experiences. I see how
religions grow, fail and decay. I see how stupid people are. I’ve
seen the depths of human misery and worked with most every
imaginable population—grotesque pinheads in hell to drooling
Savior of the world.

Blah blah blah…..

As a Kid I dreamed of putting LSD in the water supply. Too bad I was
raised too good a boy, so easy swayed by sentimentality and human
foibles to do such a brash thing.

We’d need a regular army of fanatics to pull that one off and I
don’t have the fanatic sensibilites (nor the lab equiptment) but I
wouldn’t just dismiss the idea as a movie script.

lol


dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2527 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
This seems appropriate to post in this conversation:

“Those who practice merely with mouth,
Talk much, seem to know more teachings,
When times come for passing away,
To the space are thrown their preaching’s.
When the clear light naturally shines,
It is cloaked by blindness of sin.
The chance to see the Dharmakaya,
At death is lost through one’s confusion.
Even though one spends his life
In learning holy scripture,
It helps not at the moment
When mind takes its departure.
And those yogis have not sufficient meditation
Mistake psychic light as sacred illumination,
Cannot unify the light of mother and of son,
They’re still in danger of rebirth in lower station.
When your body is rightly posed,
Mind absorbed in meditation,
You feel that here is no more mind,
Yet it’s only concentration.
Like starling fly unto the vast, empty sky,
Awareness as pure flower, bright lamp shining,
Though, it is void, transparent and vivid,
Yet it’s only a Dhyana feeling.
He who is with these good foundations
Penetrates Truth with contemplation,
And prays earnestly to the Three Gems
The non-ego wisdom he will win.
With the life rope of deep concentration
With the power of kindness and compassion,
With altruistic vow of Bodhi-heart,
He can directly get the clear vision,
The Truth of the Great Enlightened Path.
Nothing can be seen yet seen all things,
He sees how wrong were the fears and hopes,
All were in his own mind yet nothing.
He reaches the pure land without arrival,
Sees the Dharmakaya without seeing.
Without effort naturally sees all things,
Dear son, in your mind keep all my sayings.”

Milerepa 1052 – 1135 ad.
Group: egodeath Message: 2528 From: toosirius666 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Jack Herer and James Arthur Cannabis Cup Nov. 20th 2003
Jack Herer and James Arthur Cannabis Cup Nov. 20th 2003

LIVE From Amsterdam Cannabis Cup (This year it is themed as the
Conspiracy Cup). Jack Herer is being inducted into the Counter
Culture Hall of Fame (He also received earlier this year the “NORML
lifetime achievement award”) he was awarded “Man of The Century” from
High Times Magazine for uncovering the greatest conspiracy of all
time (The Conspiracy against Hemp/Marijuana) in Dec 1999. Jack herer
has been working with James Arthur on a new beek entitled ” “The Most
High, Plants of The Gods, an Exploration into The End Of The World ,
As You Know It.” Check out the links below.


Amsterdam Cannabis Cup
http://www.420tours.com/sched2003.html

http://www.jackherer.com
http://www.jamesarthur.net
Group: egodeath Message: 2529 From: Khem Caigan Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Michael Hoffman, advocate of cosmic escape through nature mysti
Dick doth schriebble:
>
> Irrespective as to who wrote the book and why…
<SNIPS>

Not so fast, idiot ~

*You* were the one who jumped in here with guns blazing, spewing
your self-serving lies, innuendo, groundless assertions and filth
about Alan and Monica and matters you know nothing of.

On the other hand, I have supplied the list with the facts of the
matter, and make no apologies for my unconcealed disdain of your
cowardice in attacking friends of mine who are not here to answer
for themselves. Their service to the world is well known, however,
and safely beyond the impeachment of stunted cretins like yourself.

And of course you are completely unable to address any of the
points I raised, indulging instead in more of your delusional
waffling spew.

On a lighter note, here’s a link to one of the seminal works of
psychedelic literature, written by one of Dick’s “frauds”(sic):

Aldous Huxley ~ _The Doors of Perception_.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/doors.htm


Cors in Manu Domine,


~ Khem Caigan
<Khem@…>
http://profiles.yahoo.com/khemcaigan
Group: egodeath Message: 2531 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
OK David,

Thank you for the information and fill in. Two last questions if I may before leaving.

(1) Given that you claim to have encountered (by drugs) the things of which I talk, viz. the realisation of Self beyond the event of Annihilation, and into the Resurrection of the Eternal mode of Being – and also the event which I call the Consummatum Incarnate, then how do you square this with Buddhism (to which you belong) in which most of its sects seem to preach that there is no real Self in the system – No real observer of the observed ?

1.. Having heard what you have to say I would now like to move on to read at least one hundred documented accounts of experiences which have been induced which at least equal that event. So, could you tell me where these reports can be found please. I have given you addresses which contain at least 10,000 accounts of modern day spontaneous experiences for analysis – and there are of course far more in print; but for one place to contain over 6000 is a good starting point – the AHRC as mentioned elsewhere. Many thanks.
Dick.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2532 From: mindexpand2001 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: why all the arguing?
i cant believe all this arguing.what’s going on?anyway,i agree with
dick that drug-free mystical experiences are preferable-though not
necessarily better-but i myself have had a drug-induced mystical
experience-or at least i think that it was.but guess what?i am really
going to rock the boat here,i am a christian!i was obsessed by
hallucinogens for years,but then i had a realization-and a
few “devilish” trips,where i actually sincerely prayed,because at
that time i KNEW that there is a God(because of the “godlessness”
quality of the trip-,a realization that maybe,just maybe that the
authors of the bible were just telling the TRUTH.i mean,dick,is your
name really dick?-michael,is your name really micheal?etc.etc.etc.get
my point?and anyway,i only have to ask myself if what i am reading in
the bible is true,and i have to say YES,eg.thou shalt not steal-i
KNOW it is wrong to steal(that is just a simple example.)btw dick,are
you in somerset?i am in wrexham,n.wales-in case you were
wondering.you never know ,we might meet some day!
bye now,and come on people,let’s stick to the subject,eh?i was
hoping to find a site where i could share/compare experiences,and
maybe explain them,from different
perspectives,eg.jung,leary,spirtually,cognitively,etc.
Group: egodeath Message: 2533 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: why all the arguing?
Dear Mindexpand,

Having read your experience I can vouchsafe that it is a genuine experience in so far as one can only measure such things with ones own experience and having read many thousands of others over the last forty years. You have to ask yourself if the experience was meaningful to you and if it revealed some kind of insight to you which makes your life more meaningful and your place in the scheme of things – the dance between the inner you and the whole of creation. It read and sounded a very genuine experience to me – and the first part of it was virtually identical to my own. The object, as we discovered some time ago was to now potentiate the experience and let it continue to work on you. The opposite is to depotentiate it and let it stagnate. Acccept it for what it was and what it revealed and let it work on you – albeit subconsciously.

Yes, I know Wrexham and had quite a few good Taffy friends. I live near the village of Crowcombe (near Taunton) West Somerset; which is situated in the valley between the Quantock Hills and Exmoor.

A list which you can try is ‘eheshare’ (pump it into google search) where they share experiences. I originally set that forum up some years ago for the owner of the Exceptional Human Experience Network. I have not been on it for a long time but funnily enough I did pop back a few days ago to see what was going on. You could also join the Alister Hardy Research Centre, who although based in Oxford have now sent their archives to Wales. You can find them on the web. I used to run live discussion meetings for them – and they are a bit Christian oriented (well some of them anyway); but they have all sorts – the main thing is Mystical experiences; and there are also many academics there as well as house-wives; and a couple of rank moronic idiots like me.

If ever you come down to Somerset then make mine a Pint of Real Ale. OK :- )

As for the arguing then; until such time that I have reams of proof that messing with drugs is safe and beneficial on a large social scale for human evolution then I only have the thousands of reports which we get every day of drug abuse, social disorder, crime, and quite a few suicides or death by virtue of it. I will want a lot of convincing that it is both safe and beneficial to humanity – as of yet I do not have that proof. I want to read of many of their experiences and the long term outcome of its effects. At least I am open to that. Unlike some of the comments which I have seen here saying that natural experiences are virtually junk in comparison. Natural mystical experience does work and has beneficial effects on the recipients – prove to me that drugs do the same – I am all ears for learning true facts based on much data of many people.

Best wishes, Dick Richardson.
—– Original Message —–
From: mindexpand2001
To: egodeath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:52 AM
Subject: [egodeath] why all the arguing?


i cant believe all this arguing.what’s going on?anyway,i agree with
dick that drug-free mystical experiences are preferable-though not
necessarily better-but i myself have had a drug-induced mystical
experience-or at least i think that it was.but guess what?i am really
going to rock the boat here,i am a christian!i was obsessed by
hallucinogens for years,but then i had a realization-and a
few “devilish” trips,where i actually sincerely prayed,because at
that time i KNEW that there is a God(because of the “godlessness”
quality of the trip-,a realization that maybe,just maybe that the
authors of the bible were just telling the TRUTH.i mean,dick,is your
name really dick?-michael,is your name really micheal?etc.etc.etc.get
my point?and anyway,i only have to ask myself if what i am reading in
the bible is true,and i have to say YES,eg.thou shalt not steal-i
KNOW it is wrong to steal(that is just a simple example.)btw dick,are
you in somerset?i am in wrexham,n.wales-in case you were
wondering.you never know ,we might meet some day!
bye now,and come on people,let’s stick to the subject,eh?i was
hoping to find a site where i could share/compare experiences,and
maybe explain them,from different
perspectives,eg.jung,leary,spirtually,cognitively,etc.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2534 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Fw: [gnosis284] science today
—– Original Message —–
From: Dick Richardson
To: gnosis284
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [gnosis284] science today


Hi mac,

The things which you mention there are of course true, there is no denying that. But do you not think that it is a little one sided and biased viewpoint?

Tell me this…. Would you have preferred your children to have been born into this world at any past time or place on this world? Medicine, transportation, communication, education, media potential, hobbies and interests pursuits are more advanced than they have ever been on earth. True, all of it could be a lot better, and will get better in due course; and true there is a lot of commercial and political strife – but there always has been mate. If you and I want a better world then there is only one way to get it – role your selves up and make it that way. No amount of wishing or praying or hoping is going to make it better – only the love and commitment to life on earth and social harmony will effect it when we role our sleeves up and get the job done. The human mind is evolving and opening up to a wider spectrum of creation all the time. But you and I right now can but make the world just a little better tomorrow than it is today. One small step at a time. Time and again my friend – it goes on and the implicate order of being unfolds in the mind of man. Don’t let poor old Pete make you feel depressed eh – where there is life then hope springs eternal; and where there is love and commitment then progress is made. If you do not like it then work to make it better mate – as do millions of us. Will we ever succeed? I do not know, but I would die trying; for what else is the point of existing? Therein is the Dignity of Man.

Regards Dick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2535 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: The big Picture
The Big Picture.


I do not know why but I have had a batch of rather depressing and miserable emails this week. They tell me that this is wrong, and that is wrong, and every damn thing is wrong, and the world and life is not only rotten but getting worse on daily basis. I would imagine that a percentage of human beings at any point in history, and possibly the future, would claim this – especially when they are feeling fed-up for some reason – yeah we all do it at times eh; and nobody loves a good moan more than I do.


But let us look at the bigger picture; and without one-sided and pessimistic bias. As I said in a recent email ‘ Would you want your children to have been born at any prior time or place in the past’? It is so easy to observe the past through nostalgia and rose colour specks is it not. But who makes the world such as it is? Some of the job is done for us; and we have an incredibly beautiful world where things just seem to work reasonable enough for the job. From that point on it is we that fashion the world and build human civilisations; and that becomes our existing existential existence and life on earth experience.


Is not the mind of man (humanity) aware of far more things now then even a mere hundred years ago; let along fifty thousand years ago? Does not this growing awareness of things not make us just a little smarter in consensus terms than the consensus was ten thousand years ago? Does not this knowledge and acquired understanding give us more potential right now than humanity has ever had in the past? The rest is just a simple choice – how to use it best for the benefit of both the planet itself and all life forms upon it. That is both a choice and a cosmological challenge. Shall we weep into our beer and pray that it all might become a little better? Nothing will happen if we do; indeed it would probably get even worse. The only way to make a better world, as I said before, is to role your sleeves up and go make it that way. Nothing else is going to make it better here. True, a bloody great rock might smash into the world tomorrow and destroy the lot of it – but so what? We have to work on the basis that it will not happen, and continue to strive to make the world (mans part in it) a better place for children to come to.


Every action which you do today will be the foundation of the world tomorrow. And nothing which you do today can ever be undone; for that deed will always have been done. No amount of tears, remorse, pain and suffering, can go back to undo a jot of it; what is done is done for ever. However, that which was not done yesterday can be done today, for tomorrow. Society is only the sum of the individuals within that society. But when people work together in harmony and accord toward a goal or inspiration then the accumulative effect of working together is greater than the sum of the individual parts working alone.


Tell the world, the governments (which you elect by the way) what kind of a world you want for the next generation – and then insist that it be done. The insistence of the consensus can never ever be over-ruled by dictate of a few (unless you let them of course – then more fool you if you do). On our own you and I have no more power over anything than did any individual cave dweller a million years ago. But combined we can build a world fit for children to come into. Man, that is power. Do not wish it; do not pray for it; do not hope for it – go and make it so. Is the will there? Is the passion there? Is the commitment there? Search within yourself; ask yourself – do you care? Most human beings do care; and that power is in your hands and minds. Civilisations do not grow on trees; they come from the mind of Man. If we do not use it then we are a ship without a rudder and tossed hither and thither by the winds of chance. If we use our minds and the collective power which humanity has on earth – we can make a world fitting for the Dignity of Man – a phenomenon of the deepest mystery and profundity in all known existence.


We can moan and cringe, complain and opt out of the struggle; or we can face the challenge and using all the powers and potentials invested in humanity. We have to make that choice – assuming that one can even see it as a choice. But the alternative to not going for it and grabbing hold of it all in both hope and optimism is a choice which is no choice. I have not seen it written that this world of humanity has to succeed. Neither have I seen it written that it cannot succeed. Why miss out on a possible success by doing nothing other than moaning, complaining and weeping into ones beer? If you want a decent world then go make it. Nothing is stopping you, and the equipment for the job is already there within you.


Some hope and pray for a better life in the next world. Well, right at this point we are here on this world NOW. So do not waste the opportunity which exists here and now. We might collectively fail in this earth project. But so what if we did? To fail due to not trying is not very dignified; but to fail after trying one’s best contains no problem and says much for the dignity of man. But, who knows, we might not fail. Is that not simple pragmatism? And why look a gift horse in the mouth? Every human being alive on earth today can each help just a little in making this world a little better for tomorrow. Ask yourself. is the world a little better place to be because you existed in it and did your bit? That is the one and only judgement which stands head and shoulders above all the others which you have to make on a daily basis. If you do not help to make a better world then why should the others? But you can try, even if they don’t eh. And you will sleep well, live well, and die well.


And how could man die better,

than facing fearful odds,

for the future of his children,

and all the other sods?


Dick Richardson. West Somerset. UK.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2536 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Dick writes:

>>>>>>>>OK David,

Thank you for the information and fill in. Two last questions if I
may before
leaving.

(1) Given that you claim to have encountered (by drugs) the things of
which I talk, viz. the realisation of Self beyond the event of
Annihilation,
and into the Resurrection of the Eternal mode of Being – and also
the event
which I call the Consummatum Incarnate, then how do you square this
with
Buddhism (to which you belong) in which most of its sects seem to
preach that
there is no real Self in the system – No real observer of the
observed ?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Keep in mind thee are words developed many years ago to describe
various aspects of enthegenic experience and the resulting
awareness. But it is still just words—very old words.

Physics the science will say similar things but this does not negate
reality of day to day life, nor does real Buddhism consider
everything meaningless and void. Voidness in real Buddhism is
potentiality. Although the independent self is in fact empty, this
emptiness is still potential and latent cause and effect.

Buddhism has the term “three aspects” it was explained using the
analogy of a seed that has the tree latent within it. The three
aspects are voidness, manifestation and the union of those two which
is like the seed itself–the Middle path and all three are
inseparable. All phenomena according to real Buddhism can be shown
to have these three aspects. A seed has within it the latent tree
which can manifest and produce more seeds etc.

As far as self goes, real Buddhism breaks it down the individual
into the “5 components” which are ever-shifting and arise from
voidness. Death is the dissolution of these 5 components. So in
this sense there is no “self.” On the other hand, real Buddhism
will clarify that ultimatly opposites such as “self an no-self” are
inseparable as the Middle Way.

Again it is all words in a specific context. When people take
Buddhism literally it will be according to their particular
perception and interprwtation which will be influenced by the
momentary life state. Real buddhism teaches the fusion of subject
and object and inseparability of mind and matter. Furthermore real
Buddhism teaches of what is called “Mutual Possession,” or
interdependance of the life states, which is akin to the holographic
reality model.

Buddhism also teaches that variou expedients have been used to
instruct people and in Mahayana, refutes various expedients and
updates them.

Ultimately it is just words and people who are into theoretical
structures, devoid of true experiential undrstanding can easily can
lost in the hall of mirrors until they realize that the Middle Way
is fundamental to all these conceptions. The Middle Way is
expressed in the Mahayana Sutra, called “The Sutra of Infinite
meaning”:

“His body is neither existing nor non-existing;
Without cause or condition,
Without self or others;
Neither square nor round,
Neither long nor short;
Without appearance or disappearance,
Without birth or death;
Neither created nor emanating,
Neither made nor produced;
Neither sitting nor lying,
Neither walking nor stopping;
Neither moving nor rolling,
Neither calm nor quiet;
Without advance or retreat,
Without safety or danger;
Without right or wrong,
Without merit or demerit;
Neither that nor this,
Neither going nor coming;
Neither blue nor yellow,
Neither red nor white;
Neither crimson nor purple,
Without a variety of color.”



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1.. Having heard what you have to say I would now
like to move on to read at least one hundred documented accounts of
experiences which have been induced which at least equal that event.
So, could you tell me where these reports can be found please. I
have given you addresses which contain at least 10,000 accounts of
modern day spontaneous experiences for analysis – and there are of
course far more in print; but for one place to contain over 6000 is
a good starting point – the AHRC as mentioned elsewhere. Many thanks.
Dick.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Perhaps others would like to comment on this.

The web is full of experiential testimony and many sites dedicated
to entheogens. There are endless books on the subject–much of it
imperfect. For realtime stuff you can go to yahoo groups full of
young people describing there experience with Salvia divinourum,
Ayuahasca, Mushrooms, and derivatives. No one place is going to
give you a compete picture. A good place to start is http://www.erowid.org

go to the erowid bibliography/library.



dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2537 From: mindexpand2001 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
— In egodeath@yahoogroups.com, “rialcnis2000” <rialcnis2000@y…>
wrote:
> (MINDEXPAND SAYS GO TO BOTTOM OF PAGE,PLEASE!!)
> Dick writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>OK David,
>
> Thank you for the information and fill in. Two last questions if I
> may before
> leaving.
>
> (1) Given that you claim to have encountered (by drugs) the things
of
> which I talk, viz. the realisation of Self beyond the event of
> Annihilation,
> and into the Resurrection of the Eternal mode of Being – and also
> the event
> which I call the Consummatum Incarnate, then how do you square this
> with
> Buddhism (to which you belong) in which most of its sects seem to
> preach that
> there is no real Self in the system – No real observer of the
> observed ?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Keep in mind thee are words developed many years ago to describe
> various aspects of enthegenic experience and the resulting
> awareness. But it is still just words—very old words.
>
> Physics the science will say similar things but this does not
negate
> reality of day to day life, nor does real Buddhism consider
> everything meaningless and void. Voidness in real Buddhism is
> potentiality. Although the independent self is in fact empty, this
> emptiness is still potential and latent cause and effect.
>
> Buddhism has the term “three aspects” it was explained using the
> analogy of a seed that has the tree latent within it. The three
> aspects are voidness, manifestation and the union of those two
which
> is like the seed itself–the Middle path and all three are
> inseparable. All phenomena according to real Buddhism can be shown
> to have these three aspects. A seed has within it the latent tree
> which can manifest and produce more seeds etc.
>
> As far as self goes, real Buddhism breaks it down the individual
> into the “5 components” which are ever-shifting and arise from
> voidness. Death is the dissolution of these 5 components. So in
> this sense there is no “self.” On the other hand, real Buddhism
> will clarify that ultimatly opposites such as “self an no-self” are
> inseparable as the Middle Way.
>
> Again it is all words in a specific context. When people take
> Buddhism literally it will be according to their particular
> perception and interprwtation which will be influenced by the
> momentary life state. Real buddhism teaches the fusion of subject
> and object and inseparability of mind and matter. Furthermore real
> Buddhism teaches of what is called “Mutual Possession,” or
> interdependance of the life states, which is akin to the
holographic
> reality model.
>
> Buddhism also teaches that variou expedients have been used to
> instruct people and in Mahayana, refutes various expedients and
> updates them.
>
> Ultimately it is just words and people who are into theoretical
> structures, devoid of true experiential undrstanding can easily can
> lost in the hall of mirrors until they realize that the Middle Way
> is fundamental to all these conceptions. The Middle Way is
> expressed in the Mahayana Sutra, called “The Sutra of Infinite
> meaning”:
>
> “His body is neither existing nor non-existing;
> Without cause or condition,
> Without self or others;
> Neither square nor round,
> Neither long nor short;
> Without appearance or disappearance,
> Without birth or death;
> Neither created nor emanating,
> Neither made nor produced;
> Neither sitting nor lying,
> Neither walking nor stopping;
> Neither moving nor rolling,
> Neither calm nor quiet;
> Without advance or retreat,
> Without safety or danger;
> Without right or wrong,
> Without merit or demerit;
> Neither that nor this,
> Neither going nor coming;
> Neither blue nor yellow,
> Neither red nor white;
> Neither crimson nor purple,
> Without a variety of color.”
>
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1.. Having heard what you have to say I would now
> like to move on to read at least one hundred documented accounts of
> experiences which have been induced which at least equal that
event.
> So, could you tell me where these reports can be found please. I
> have given you addresses which contain at least 10,000 accounts of
> modern day spontaneous experiences for analysis – and there are of
> course far more in print; but for one place to contain over 6000 is
> a good starting point – the AHRC as mentioned elsewhere. Many
thanks.
> Dick.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
> Perhaps others would like to comment on this.
>
> The web is full of experiential testimony and many sites dedicated
> to entheogens. There are endless books on the subject–much of it
> imperfect. For realtime stuff you can go to yahoo groups full of
> young people describing there experience with Salvia divinourum,
> Ayuahasca, Mushrooms, and derivatives. No one place is going to
> give you a compete picture. A good place to start is http://www.erowid.org
>
> go to the erowid bibliography/library.
>
>
>
> dc
hello nialcis.you mentioned that you had a weird experience 18 yrs
ago and had no-one to share your story with.well,same here-about 13
yrs,so i’d love to hear from you.mindexpand.bye
Group: egodeath Message: 2538 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
hello nialcis.you mentioned that you had a weird experience 18 yrs
ago and had no-one to share your story with.well,same here-about 13
yrs,so i’d love to hear from you.mindexpand.bye,,,

You must have picked up the number “18” where I mentioned I worked
in Psychiatric wards for 18 years. My primary entheogenic
experiences were in 1965-1969.

Did I say “weird”? Its all weird.

dc

— In egodeath@yahoogroups.com, “mindexpand2001”
<lauren.kayleighevans@v…> wrote:
> — In egodeath@yahoogroups.com, “rialcnis2000”
<rialcnis2000@y…>
> wrote:
> > (MINDEXPAND SAYS GO TO BOTTOM OF PAGE,PLEASE!!)
> > Dick writes:
> >
> > >>>>>>>>OK David,
> >
> > Thank you for the information and fill in. Two last questions if
I
> > may before
> > leaving.
> >
> > (1) Given that you claim to have encountered (by drugs) the
things
> of
> > which I talk, viz. the realisation of Self beyond the event of
> > Annihilation,
> > and into the Resurrection of the Eternal mode of Being – and
also
> > the event
> > which I call the Consummatum Incarnate, then how do you square
this
> > with
> > Buddhism (to which you belong) in which most of its sects seem
to
> > preach that
> > there is no real Self in the system – No real observer of the
> > observed ?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >
> > Keep in mind thee are words developed many years ago to describe
> > various aspects of enthegenic experience and the resulting
> > awareness. But it is still just words—very old words.
> >
> > Physics the science will say similar things but this does not
> negate
> > reality of day to day life, nor does real Buddhism consider
> > everything meaningless and void. Voidness in real Buddhism is
> > potentiality. Although the independent self is in fact empty,
this
> > emptiness is still potential and latent cause and effect.
> >
> > Buddhism has the term “three aspects” it was explained using the
> > analogy of a seed that has the tree latent within it. The three
> > aspects are voidness, manifestation and the union of those two
> which
> > is like the seed itself–the Middle path and all three are
> > inseparable. All phenomena according to real Buddhism can be
shown
> > to have these three aspects. A seed has within it the latent
tree
> > which can manifest and produce more seeds etc.
> >
> > As far as self goes, real Buddhism breaks it down the
individual
> > into the “5 components” which are ever-shifting and arise from
> > voidness. Death is the dissolution of these 5 components. So
in
> > this sense there is no “self.” On the other hand, real Buddhism
> > will clarify that ultimatly opposites such as “self an no-self”
are
> > inseparable as the Middle Way.
> >
> > Again it is all words in a specific context. When people take
> > Buddhism literally it will be according to their particular
> > perception and interprwtation which will be influenced by the
> > momentary life state. Real buddhism teaches the fusion of
subject
> > and object and inseparability of mind and matter. Furthermore
real
> > Buddhism teaches of what is called “Mutual Possession,” or
> > interdependance of the life states, which is akin to the
> holographic
> > reality model.
> >
> > Buddhism also teaches that variou expedients have been used to
> > instruct people and in Mahayana, refutes various expedients and
> > updates them.
> >
> > Ultimately it is just words and people who are into theoretical
> > structures, devoid of true experiential undrstanding can easily
can
> > lost in the hall of mirrors until they realize that the Middle
Way
> > is fundamental to all these conceptions. The Middle Way is
> > expressed in the Mahayana Sutra, called “The Sutra of Infinite
> > meaning”:
> >
> > “His body is neither existing nor non-existing;
> > Without cause or condition,
> > Without self or others;
> > Neither square nor round,
> > Neither long nor short;
> > Without appearance or disappearance,
> > Without birth or death;
> > Neither created nor emanating,
> > Neither made nor produced;
> > Neither sitting nor lying,
> > Neither walking nor stopping;
> > Neither moving nor rolling,
> > Neither calm nor quiet;
> > Without advance or retreat,
> > Without safety or danger;
> > Without right or wrong,
> > Without merit or demerit;
> > Neither that nor this,
> > Neither going nor coming;
> > Neither blue nor yellow,
> > Neither red nor white;
> > Neither crimson nor purple,
> > Without a variety of color.”
> >
> >
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1.. Having heard what you have to say I would
now
> > like to move on to read at least one hundred documented accounts
of
> > experiences which have been induced which at least equal that
> event.
> > So, could you tell me where these reports can be found please. I
> > have given you addresses which contain at least 10,000 accounts
of
> > modern day spontaneous experiences for analysis – and there are
of
> > course far more in print; but for one place to contain over 6000
is
> > a good starting point – the AHRC as mentioned elsewhere. Many
> thanks.
> > Dick.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >
> >
> > Perhaps others would like to comment on this.
> >
> > The web is full of experiential testimony and many sites
dedicated
> > to entheogens. There are endless books on the subject–much of
it
> > imperfect. For realtime stuff you can go to yahoo groups full
of
> > young people describing there experience with Salvia divinourum,
> > Ayuahasca, Mushrooms, and derivatives. No one place is going to
> > give you a compete picture. A good place to start is
http://www.erowid.org
> >
> > go to the erowid bibliography/library.
> >
> >
> >
> > dc
> hello nialcis.you mentioned that you had a weird experience 18 yrs
> ago and had no-one to share your story with.well,same here-about
13
> yrs,so i’d love to hear from you.mindexpand.bye
Group: egodeath Message: 2539 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
Well David,

Thank you for the information, the time and the trouble. I have never met another drug advocate who presented their case so well – and far more help than some of the idiotic discharge and tirade on this list.

Yes indeed language (as yet anyway) is a pain in the arse and causes more problems and division than the present good it can do. So, we simply have to keep working at it. Perhaps we all ought to learn Pure German eh. But English seems to have a little more humour in it and which rubs off on the speakers of that language – we can sure have a lot of fun with it eh.

I would recommend however that if your ‘organisation’ does contain the truth which you claim for it then they should work together and get their act together. You know as well as I do that in general terms the drug scene does not go down well with the consensus of humanity simply by what they see around them on a daily bases and the social problems it causes.

You also know as well as I do that the average human beings concentration span is rather short (perhaps they should all learn to play chess in schools eh) so such things as the so called truth of general Buddhism are taken at face value of the words contained therein. This is not a problem for the mob it is a problem for those who have something to say in order to get their concentration wanting to hear more. Simple psychology and salesmanship mate – as you probably well know. ( I was a good Salesman once :- ))

Anyway, thanks for your time, and I will look further into your claims – albeit not by experimentation; for as I truly stated – they happen anyway, and without any help from me. I have always advocated however that people should put themselves in the path of it happening; by feeling life deeply, going with the flow, and relaxing a little more often. I also advocate that people should share their experiences with others – alas we can only do it by way of words – but words do have a power you know – the power of the word.

Regards, Dick Richardson.
—– Original Message —–
From: rialcnis2000
To: egodeath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:48 PM
Subject: [egodeath] Re: Ego death then, so be it.



Dick writes:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2540 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Fw: [gnosis284] RE: Buddhism
—– Original Message —–
From: andrew smith
To: gnosis284 ; Yahoo! Groups Notification
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:25 PM
Subject: [gnosis284] RE: Buddhism


Buddhist basics

The Three Characteristics of life.

Dukkha = suffering or “unsatisfactoriness”
‘Birth is suffering, ageing is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and tribulation are suffering; association with what one dislikes is suffering; separation from what one likes is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering.’
Samyutta Nikaya 5: 421-3

Anicca
All created, compounded and conditioned things are not permanent and are subject to change.

Anatta
There is no permanent soul, self, ego or Atman to be found that is unchanging or continues after death.



CREDO: “Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam”
Andrew W. Smith

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2541 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: The big Picture
>>>>>>>True, a bloody great rock might smash into the world tomorrow
and destroy the lot of it – but so what? We have to work on the
basis that it will not happen, and continue to strive to make the
world (mans part in it) a better place for children to come
to.<<<<<<<<

I don’t know if it is wise to go on the assumption terrible things
won’t happen. Of course people shuldn;t become obsessed with
catastrophic expectations, and paranoid, but is is intellegent
and “smarter,” to deal with the possibility of asteroid impact etc,
and have a solution already provided. I simple mechancal solution.

You wear a seat beat in a car because it is possible you might get
in a crash. If you do not wear it that is silly. At the same time,
don’t you want to see better antibiotics and cures for diseases? I
would asume you do. You can’t sit there and think, “I won’t ever
get sick.” That is just as silly as being excessively worried over
it. I had to comment because it tends to annoy me when people have
a laissez faire attitude about asteroids and other such basic
realities they could deal with using the tools we have available,
where they not o busy arguing with each other or oil and religious
dogma.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2542 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Ego death then, so be it.
>>>>>>>I would recommend however that if your ‘organisation’ does
contain the truth which you claim for it<<<<<<

There is no “organization” to speak of that I am a part of at this
time. Although I support a few of the Entheogenic website/org efforts


>>>>>>then they should work together and get their act together.
<<<<

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Ther has never been any cohesion
in this areas, because people, myaself included do not care for
oraganizations per se. But I believe strongly that the best
appraoch for enthegenic advocates is in COURT in the US and other
countries were “freedom of relgion” is said to exist–fighting laws
prohibiting relgious use and research. I think that is a case of
relgious freedom that can be proven in court and won. The basis of
this case would be that Entheogenic Experience, is in fact the
origin of “religion.”


>>>>>You also know as well as I do that the average human beings
concentration span is rather short >

no argument from me there.

dc
Group: egodeath Message: 2543 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: Fw: [gnosis284] RE: Buddhism
You might be interested in reading this which is Mahayana that
teaches that these early teachings were Chapter 2, 3, 7 AND 16
explains the use of expedient means where Buddhism seems to reverese
itself. At any rate all old stuff is just that …old and alwasy
need updating according to time and place.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/lotus/

dc




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buddhist basics

The Three Characteristics of life.

Dukkha = suffering or “unsatisfactoriness”
‘Birth is suffering, ageing is suffering, death is suffering;
sorrow,
lamentation, pain, grief and tribulation are suffering; association
with what
one dislikes is suffering; separation from what one likes is
suffering; not to
get what one wants is suffering.’
Samyutta Nikaya 5: 421-3

Anicca
All created, compounded and conditioned things are not permanent and
are subject
to change.

Anatta
There is no permanent soul, self, ego or Atman to be found that is
unchanging or
continues after death.
— In egodeath@yahoogroups.com, “Dick Richardson” <dick@p…> wrote:
Group: egodeath Message: 2544 From: Dick Richardson Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: The big Picture
Oh David, do not take everything so literal and simple; yeah yeah yeah of course we have to cater for all that, and we do. However, it does not detract from what I said – we cannot live our lives here in the expectation that we will not be here tomorrow – society would bloody collapse mate.

By the way I try to avoid seat belts even though it is the law of the land – ah shit, it is more comfortable mate. I have been driving every day since I was fifteen and never scratched the paint yet – yes we have to watch out for the others, but we can anticipate the sods eh. And if you do happen to die in a big crash – then so be it. Here today, gone tomorrow – but not all at the same time eh :- )))

Keep smiling petal. I must be off now – that will cheer them all up here eh mate :- )) Bloody ignorant cockney mystic that I am :- (((( Here here they all say – first words of truth he has spoken yet !!!! Like hell eh. Have a good life David.

Dick.
—– Original Message —–
From: rialcnis2000
To: egodeath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 6:23 PM
Subject: [egodeath] Re: The big Picture


>>>>>>>True, a bloody great rock might smash into the world tomorrow
and destroy the lot of it – but so what? We have to work on the
basis that it will not happen, and continue to strive to make the
world (mans part in it) a better place for children to come
to.<<<<<<<<

I don’t know if it is wise to go on the assumption terrible things
won’t happen. Of course people shuldn;t become obsessed with
catastrophic expectations, and paranoid, but is is intellegent
and “smarter,” to deal with the possibility of asteroid impact etc,
and have a solution already provided. I simple mechancal solution


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: egodeath Message: 2545 From: rialcnis2000 Date: 14/11/2003
Subject: Re: The big Picture
Adios, but you really should wear that seatbeat. The ride might be
bumpy.

lol


dc



>>>Oh David, do not take everything so literal and simple; yeah yeah
yeah of course
we have to cater for all that, and we do. However, it does not
detract from what
I said – we cannot live our lives here in the expectation that we
will not be
here tomorrow – society would bloody collapse mate.

By the way I try to avoid seat belts even though it is the law of
the land – ah
shit, it is more comfortable mate. I have been driving every day
since I was
fifteen and never scratched the paint yet – yes we have to watch out
for the
others, but we can anticipate the sods eh. And if you do happen to
die in a big
crash – then so be it. Here today, gone tomorrow – but not all at
the same time
eh :- )))

Keep smiling petal. I must be off now – that will cheer them all up
here eh
mate :- )) Bloody ignorant cockney mystic that I am :- (((( Here
here they all
say – first words of truth he has spoken yet !!!! Like hell eh. Have
a good
life David.

Dick.
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Author: egodeaththeory

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