The Key Questions That Scholars Must Address Directly, Explicitly, and Consistently
“Whether the fixed stars should be included [with Saturn, sphere 7] or should rather be associated with the Ogdoad [sphere 8] remains an open question for me.” – p. 294, footnote 114, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022
Apparently all scholars are baffled by this. Wouter Hanegraaff got his confusion from the ancient writers and the entire field of today’s scholars of the Hermetic writings.
goal: Email the experts these simple basic questions. The usual answers are a contradictory set of answers. I provide the potential useful astral ascent mysticism model, useful as a map of Psilocybin transformation, mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism, producing integrated possibilism + eternalism thinking.
To protect naive possibilism-thinking, scholars love to talk about planet spheres 1-7 as being Fate, while remaining silent then, about sphere 8 (sphere of the fixed stars) being Fate. I HATE when scholars discuss “cosmos = planets = 7 spheres” while staying silent about the main level of Fate, which is sphere of the fixed stars.
How I Pinned Down Wouter Hanegraaff Error: Write the sphere # that is associated with every word in the book re: astral ascent mysticism
Where he writes “zodiac” write “8”. Nous, write 8 or 9 (review that). “cosmos” to him means 1-7 as if the stars are not included in “the cosmos”.
In ancient cosmology, is sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars) part of “the cosmos”?
Answer: Yes.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism.
Confused scholars: cosmos = 7 planet spheres. above 7 is freedom from fate.
the Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism — psychedelic possibilism etpe
the Egodeath theory of psychedelic integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking the Egodeath theory of psychedelic possibilism/eternalism; branching/non-branching;
Egodeath theory of non/branching
the Egodeath theory of psychedelic non-branching etpn that is 1-sided. branching & non thus non/branching ;j transcendent possibility-branching
transcendent possibility-branching and non-branching , integrated. differentiated.
ITS THE SORT OF “SPIRITUAL FREEDOM” THAT CAN ONLY BE BASED ON A FERVENT ASSERTION OF ETERNALISM PRISON BLOCK 4D spacetime block ENSLAVED PRISON –> IMPLIES A THIN SPECIFIC KIND OF “TRANSCEND”
2 sides of same coin: 100% heimarmene; “spiritual transcendence” of heimarmene –
body stuck in fate planets soul stuck in fate stars spirit outside fate stars
redeemed prison slave by Christ lifting up outisde FAte jaws. a very specific way of envisioning a type of “spiritual freedom” that’s in relateion to revelation of slave prison block-universe eternalism. {snake frozen in rock}
integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking is outside of eternalism-thinking
basic eternalism-thinking , vs “eternalism” that’s within integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking
Egodeath theory is not valuatgion of how the mind mental model ends up; purely descriptive, not value-laden. YOU END UP W ETERNALISM-THINKING AND WITH POSSIBILISM-THINKING as virtual qualified.
A Tragic Type of Spiritual Freedom: Adult Made Mature Able/Taught to Stable Control in Psilocybin Non-Branching Experiential State
mind switched from monolithic, autonomous control to 2-level, dependent control. Experience is shaped as monolithic control-agent steering among branching possibilities. Donkey following path carrying load.
fate-soaked , even fate-producing fixed stars w/ demiurge created all your control thoughts
“These new, widespread teachings had unavoidable religious implications for the common people. How could a person survive the corrupting influences of the elements, escape the fatalistic control of the stars and planets during life [the series of Psilocybin sessions], and ensure a safe ascension to heaven after [ego] death?”
Is sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars) the highest sphere of Fate, or is it above Fate?
Answer: 8 is highest sphere of Fate.
Confused scholars: the Ogdoad is above fate, because it is above the planet sphere. sphere 8 is above fate, b/c above the 7 planets. [this sounds like Classical Antiquity veneration of fixed stars / heimarmene, as the destination of soul] spirit not invented yet, to go outside heimarmene. Late Antiquity.
in Egodeath theory, “transcend eternalism” means, integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking. * possibilism-thinking dominates and wins this way in that: __ personal control system experience is shaped as {king steering in a tree}. * eternalism-thinking dominates and wins this way in that: __ firmly assert that 4D spacetime block is the case.
the experience of {king steering in a tree} , the reality source underlying = {snake frozen in rock}.
Appearance wins! 🏆 {king steering in a tree} Reality wins! 🏆 {snake frozen in rock}
with Egodeath theory, both appearance wins AND reality wins – win-win: although {snake frozen in rock}, {king steering in a tree}.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism. compare Tim Freke evolutionary spirituality that rejects.. SIMPLY REJECTS NONDUALITY, MIND-ONLY, AND EGO LOSS.
Tim Freke now rejects:
ego-loss
nonduality
mind-only
Egodeath theory rejects those constructs and explanatory effort. like “Anxiety of ego dissolution” – poor theory constructs.
Was Stoicism no-free-will, or the creator of freewill?
Answer: Both.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism.
Confused scholars: __
this is a free-for-all projection fest. like “gnosticism”. like a god of the gaps arg: anything you like, or don’t like, say: “Stoicism invented that.”
wonderful no-free-will? stoicism figured that out. noxious no-free-will? stoicism’s fault. wonderful freewill? stoicism figured that out. noxious freewill? stoicism’s fault.
every position and its opposite are to the credit or fault of Stoicism, the god-of-the-gaps cover explnation for all Phil positions re: free will vs. determinism.
Like John Lash quote, need keyboard shortcut: “Wasson’s theory, including followers’ considerable departures from it, ” shame quote hall of shame fail quotes.
Extremely loaded word-choice by John Lash to give all credit for all ideas and their opposite to his god idol Gordon . . . .🔍🧐🤔 Wasson
Lash: ALL YOUR IDEAS ARE BELONG TO WASS.
Given:
wasson’s theory
bob’s theory
fred’s theory
reframe as “Wasson’s theory, including Bob’s theory and Fred’s theory, …” what kind of put-on is this? magically handing all theories to Gordon . . . .🔍🧐🤔 Wasson through bad, arbitrary writing, the framing tail wags the given dog.
Heavy handed force impose framing. Just because YOU are an obsessed Gordon . . . .🔍🧐🤔 Wasson fanboi, doesn’t give you the right to assign every theory in the field as “coming from Wasson” – ridiculous, Lash is as bad as Thomas Hatsis who simply ASSUMES every child like Irvin & Hatsis started as Allegro fanboi; Lash does same but Wass instead: assumes every scholar came up as a Wasson fanboi like Lash, so Lash forces all the field to be arrayed around god idol Gordon . . . .🔍🧐🤔 Wasson. Failing to match reality. entheogen scholarship is NOT arrayed with god idol wasson in the middle, the lying deceiver impeder of scholarship.
not that wass would be the idol in the center if he had been honest , vs pope banker, Gordon “MASSIVE Conflict of Interest” Wasson. Bad thinking from John Lash; poor way of arranging the field of entheogen scholarship so as to center on Wasson. Stupid approach! forget Wasson, our new Aristotle authnority that Lash erects for us. GTFO Lash, & Gordon . . . .🔍🧐🤔 Wasson! Stupid mis-arraying of the field of entheogen scholarship. Stupid model of the field.
Lash is a Psilocybin enthusiast, he hates Wasson’s Amanita Primacy Fallacy.
JL: ALL YOUR IDEA ARE BELONG TO WASS.
Does the soul rise above Fate?
Answer: No.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism.
Confused scholars: the soul travels above 7 planets fate, to transcend fate, ending up in the stars above fate.
Does the spirit rise above Fate?
Answer: Yes.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism.
Confused scholars: __
Does the soul rise to sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars) at highest?
Answer: Yes.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism.
Confused scholars: __
Does the spirit rise to sphere 9, above sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars)?
The pleroma, precession of the equinoxes. Yes.
Answer: Yes.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism.
Confused scholars: __
Which sphere is the demiurge at?
Answer: Sphere 8; the sphere of the fixed stars.
per The Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism.
Confused scholars: __
Classical Antiquity’s Model of Astral ascent Mysticism: Destination for the Soul Is Sphere 8, Fixed Stars, Above “the Cosmos” as Spheres 1-7
Leave the corrupt cosmos 1-7 to reach perfection: {snake frozen in rock}; {king turned to stone}.
completion of initiation = align the mental model w/ heimarmene/ no-free-will/ eternalism.
{king turned to stone} kts
Late Antiquity’s Model of Astral ascent Mysticism: Destination for the Spirit Is Sphere 9, Pleroma, Above “the Cosmos” as Spheres 1-8
Late Antiquity targeted “Psilocybin enlightenment = transcend heimarmene”.
Leave the corrupt cosmos 1-8 to reach perfection: transcend determinism; transcend heimarmene; transcend no-free-will; have transcendent freewill.
{redeemed from prison} {ransomed from captivity}
[1:56 pm Apr. 5, 2025]
completion of initiation = not only align the mental model w/ heimarmene/ no-free-will/ eternalism; align with the POV from outside of eternalism / cosmic rock.
Scholars of hellenistic cosmology are incapable of counting to 8, because they go irrational regarding eternalism.
The maddening self-contradiction and vagueness is not just Wouter “Star Destroyer” Hanegraaff – ALL of these guys are muddle-headed thinkers on these specific points.
When these magicians playing shell games w/ undefined terms, when they say “the cosmos”, you cannot ever tell whether they include sphere 8 (sphere of the fixed stars) or not. They make definite statements and then make contradictory statements.
They present a vague, confused, self-contradictory MESS.
These are so confused thinkers, THEY THEMSELVES DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN WHEN THEY SAY “THE COSMOS”.
Even while they discuss sphere levels re: Fate, we have maximum waffling and blind spot, they are prevented from directly addressing these key questions.
They [Sam Block & Chris Brennan] talk around these key questions, and confusion is perpetuated.
Video title: Hermeticism and Ancient Astrology: The Corpus Hermeticum Feb 16, 2022 YouTube channel: The Astrology Podcast (Chris Brennan) Desc:
“A discussion about the ancient philosophy of Hermeticism and its relationship to Hellenistic astrology, with Sam Block and Chris Brennan.
“Hermeticism is a religious, philosophical, and mystical movement that arose in Hellenistic Egypt around the first century, and is attributed to the teachings and practices of Hermes Trismegistus.
“It represents a popular synthesis of a number of philosophical and religious trends that were popular during the Hellenistic period, including Stoicism, Platonism, native Egyptian religion, and astrology.
“The majority of what is known about this philosophical or religious school survives in the Corpus Hermeticum and a handful of other writings from that time period.
“During the course of the episode we talk about what is known about the Hermetic philosophical tradition, and how it relates to the technical tradition of astrology that arose during the same time period.
“Sam is the author of a series on Hermeticism on his website, which I would recommend checking out for more information on this topic:
36:30 [in Sam Block video “Hermeticism and Astrology: The Corpus …”] “planets = Fate”, but WHAT ABOUT the sphere of the fixed stars? Wouter Hanegraaff & Paul Davidson & this video are frustratingly silent about sphere 8 fixed stars which is even MORE the headquarters of Fate.
These treatments act like sphere 8 is above Fate AND is Fate, self-contradicting.
50:40 [in Sam Block video] Brennan’s diagram of waffling:
Does the word “fate-ruled cosmos” include sphere 8, fixed stars, or not?
Please focus on this question; please focus on sphere of the fixed stars; the Ogdoad:
In ancient cosmology, is sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars) part of “the cosmos”? Yes.
Is sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars) the highest sphere of Fate, or is it above Fate? 8 is highest sphere of Fate.
Was Stoicism no-free-will, or the creator of freewill? Both. wikipedia article about history and theology of freewill says Christianity did not invent freewill but freewill was created by stocism and then Christianity integrated freewill. How can wiki say freewill was created by Stoicism, if Stoicism = affirming no-free-will? Contradictions in the field.
Does the soul rise above Fate? No.
Does the spirit rise above Fate? yes.
Does the soul rise to sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars) at highest? Yes.
Does the spirit rise to sphere 9, above sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars)? The pleroma, precession of the equinoxes. Yes.
Please stop going silent on this question; please stop dancing around this question:
Does “the cosmos” include the sphere of the fixed stars?
Please focus on this specific question.
This is the centrally most important question.
Perfection of Initiation: Integrated Possibilism/Eternalism Thinking
the Egodeath theory of integrated possibilism/eternalism etipse
The Egodeath Theory of Integrated Possibilism and Eternalism
That will sell well! great marketing / framing / sales & advertisement, P. R.
joke: modify quote from Houot “DO NOT READ THIS BOOK if you use psychedelics for any reason one can list”, to sell the GREAT idea, the Egodeath theory of integrated possibilism and eternalism
the Egodeath theory of integrated possibilism and eternalism etipe 2:21 pm Apr. 5, 2025
integrated possibilism/eternalism ipe ipse
integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking ipet
possibilism/eternalism thinking pset
psychedelic eternalism p-e
Psilocybin esotericism pses
the theory of psychedelic possibilism and eternalism
the theory of psychedelic eternalism including possibilism
the theory of psychedelic eternalism (including possibilism)
the theory of psychedelic possibility branching and non-branching
the theory of psychedelic non-branching” <– relates well to the art genre of mushroom-trees
the art genre of mushroom-trees agmt
The Egodeath Theory Gives You Integrated Possibilism + Eternalism Thinking
No shortchange either; full possibilism AND full eternalism.
integrated possibilism + eternalism thinking ipet i like that, better than leaning w bias toward “hyper-eternalism” or “eternalism, with virtual possibilism thinking”, or “qualified possibilism-thinking”. i hate those phrases that PRIVILEGE either eternalism or possibilism. i want to emph the INTEGRATION of BOTH.
possibilism + eternalism thinking ppet
possibilism + eternalism p+e
Videos
Video: Fate and Astrology (Adam Elenbaas, Chris Brennan, 2023)
mar 21 2023
“Astrologers Adam Elenbaas and Chris Brennan discuss the relationship between fate and astrology, and how astrology can be used as a tool to study fate.
“This episode was originally recorded as a Q&A for Adam’s YouTube channel, where we answered some questions that were sent in my his fans about fate, free-will, and ancient astrology.
“During the course of the episode we talk about how ancient astrologers viewed fate, and used astrology as a tool for understanding and negotiating it.
“Along the way we also touched on other topics such as karma and reincarnation, electional astrology and magic, and how to delineate a birth chart in a way that balances determinism and free-will.
“This is episode 392 of The Astrology Podcast”
Video: Sam Block, Chris Brennan, Feb. 16, 2022
Sam Block
feb 16 2022
discussion about the ancient philosophy of Hermeticism and its relationship to Hellenistic astrology, with Sam Block and Chris Brennan.
Hermeticism is a religious, philosophical, and mystical movement that arose in Hellenistic Egypt around the first century, and is attributed to the teachings and practices of Hermes Trismegistus.
It represents a popular synthesis of a number of philosophical and religious trends that were popular during the Hellenistic period, including Stoicism, Platonism, native Egyptian religion, and astrology.
The majority of what is known about this philosophical or religious school survives in the Corpus Hermeticum and a handful of other writings from that time period.
During the course of the episode we talk about what is known about the Hermetic philosophical tradition, and how it relates to the technical tradition of astrology that arose during the same time period.
Sam is the author of a series on Hermeticism on his website, which I would recommend checking out for more information on this topic:
“Hellenistic astrology is a tradition of horoscopic astrology that was practiced in the Mediterranean region from approximately the first century BCE until the seventh century CE.
“It is the source of many of the modern traditions of astrology that still flourish around the world today, although it is only recently that many of the surviving texts of this tradition have become available again for astrologers to study.
Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune is the first comprehensive survey of this tradition in modern times. The book covers the history, philosophy, and techniques of ancient astrology, with a special focus on demonstrating how many of the fundamental concepts underlying the practice of western astrology originated during the Hellenistic period.”
Cosmology in Antiquity (Rosemary Wright, 1995)
Ordered yesterday, Apr. 4, 2025.
Cosmology in Antiquity Rosemary Wright, 1995 Part of: Sciences of Antiquity (9 books)
“Examines the cosmological theories of the `natural philosophers’ from Thales, Anaximander and Anaximenes to Plato, the Stoics and the NeoPlatonists. Also discusses and emphasizes the importance of Babylonian and Egyptian forerunners.”
pub’d 2000, ordered April 2001 just before starting Egodeath Yahoo Group
Paul and the Stoics Troels Engberg-Pedersen, 2000 “This book seeks to do for the study of Paul and Stoicism what E. P. Sanders did for Paul and Judaism. Instead of making a brick-by-brick analysis, Troels Engberg Pedersen provides the first comprehensive building-to-building comparison of how the two religious/philosophical systems functioned. The book moves through the major letters of Paul (e.g., Philippians, Galatians, and Romans), carefully documenting Paul’s indebtedness to Stoic thought.”
“The planetary spheres were arranged outwards from the spherical, stationary Earth at the centre of the universe in this order: the spheres of the Moon [sphere 1], Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn [sphere 7].
“The planetary spheres were followed by the stellar sphere containing the fixed stars [sphere 8];
“other scholars added a ninth sphere [sphere 9] to account for the precession of the equinoxes, [apparently named “the pleroma”]
“a tenth [sphere 10] to account for the supposed trepidation of the equinoxes,
“and even an eleventh [sphere 11] to account for the changing obliquity of the ecliptic.”
Motivation for this Page
Astral ascent mysticism is POTENTIALLY a concrete, specific, model for mental model transformation, Psilocybin transformation, mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism.
mental model transformation from naive possibilism-thinking to integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking.
The psychedelics coaches are right: “The super important integration phase; phase 3″; Prep; Session; Integrate. eg
Before the session, have only possibilism-thinking.
During the session, have eternalism-thinking.
After the session, have integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking.
Crop by Michael Hoffman
The 3 Tiers of Astral Ascent Mysticism When Done Right: Sphere 8; Spheres 7-, and Spheres 9+
The astral ascent mysticism model, as I developed it for the Egodeath theory, is potentially concrete and useful as a model of the mind’s trajectory of Psilocybin transformation, because of the 3 tiers:
Sphere 8
Sphere 8: Sphere 8 sphere of the fixed stars is central; is it cognizance of eternalism. In the 8th Psilocybin session, attain full comprehension of Fatedness.
Spheres 7-
Spheres 7-: Below/ before sphere 8 is naive possibilism-thinking.
In the first 7 Psilocybin sessions, increase from 1/8 to 7/8 comprehension of Fatedness/ eternalism.
Sphere 9+
Spheres 9+: Above/after sphere 8 is hyper-eternalism, ie qualified possibilism-thinking; the mature compatibilism, the best form of compatibilism: in a way, in a sense, the mind transcends eternalism (heimarmene, no-free-will; Fatedness).
In the 9th & later Psilocybin sessions, a mature balance combination of asserting that eternalism —
4D spacetime block universe eternalism fsbue I finally defined this string / phrase / keyboard shortcut 11:20 am Apr. 5, 2025. How did I not define this string in June 2001? then i would have written: “4D spacetime block universe determinism”
basic possibilism-thinking bpt (naive possibilism-thinking) or can refer to the possibilism-thinking component within mature hyper-eternalism thinking.
basic eternalism-thinking be-t
qualified possibilism-thinking qpt
need a term for the mature combination compat’m of possibilism + eternalism
integrated possibilism + eternalism thinking; mature possibilism+eternalism ; rider on donkey following path; adult over child; Abr over Isaac at altar. the best version of compatibilism.
qualified possibilism-thinking <– fails to mention hyper-eternalism. hyper-eternalism <– fails to honor preservation and use always of qualified possibilism-thinking.
the Egodeath theory of mature integration of possibilism + eternalism
you end up with … GREEDY MARKETING: OUR PRODUCT GIVES YOU BOTH POSSIBILISM AND ETERNALISM
voice rec’g
voice recordings TK_VOX_6374.wav and probably 6373.wav, Apr 4, 2025:
mental model transformation from
mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism is well pictured as “cut the branch”; to keep but change the foundation of the mental model that has branching, you cut the branching mental model and assert non-branching ie assert that the hidden foundation of the branching mental model (possibilism) is the non-branching underlying reality; ie eternalism. cut the branching model ; cut the branching possibilism model , affirm the non-branching, eternalism model.
copy to here the recent , from idea development p 26 or maybe 27, the text chat posts summarizing … composed & sent last Sat 7 days before Apr 5 2025.
last night voice recording finally captured page content for page about “how branching & non branching perfectly (ade’ly) depict the two mental models mmctpb control time possy branching
mental model of control, time, and possibility branching mmctpb mmctp
mental model of control and possibility mmcp
mental model of control and possibility branching mmcpb This phrase would connect the cybernetic theory (core Egodeath theory) & art motifs in mushroom-trees genre.
the mushroom-trees art genre, which combines {mushrooms}, {branching}, {handedness}, and {stability} motifs mtgmbhs mtgm
mushroom-trees genre mtg
mental model of time, self, and control mmtsc
mental model of time, self, control, and possibility mmtscp
4D block universe fbu
4D spacetime fds
In videos and books about Fate and ancient cosmology, I continue consistently seeing the same irrational and inconsistent and frustrating– they keep doing this illogical self-contradictory move:
The cosmos means planetary spheres 1-7. [silent about fixed stars]
Sphere 8 is outside the cosmos, and so, is outside of fate.
Fixed stars are sphere 8. The fixed stars are fate.
The soul rises above fate by rising aboe the fate ruled cosmos, above level sphere 7. the soul is higher than fate by reaching sphere 8.
Which sphere is the demiurge at? 8
ALL of the scholars do this same irrational, incoherent, self-contradiction, without acknowledging this basic silence and basic major inconsistency.
GET YOUR DAMN STORY STRAIGHT!
OR AT LEAST, ADMIT YOU ARE GIVING THE AUDIENCE DIRECTLY SELF-CONTRADICTORY NARRATIVE COMPONENTS.
Titles of this Page
Basic Key Cosmology Questions: Does “the Fate-Ruled Cosmos” Include Sphere 8 (the Sphere of the Fixed Stars), or Not?
Key Cosmology Questions for Astral Ascent Mysticism Centered Around Eternalism:
Does “the Fate-Ruled Cosmos” Include the Sphere of the Fixed Stars, or Not?!
todo: manually add, on each heading in article body, the anchor string. applies to a few recent pages; expect blue links in Contents that don’t work on some platforms.tool > copied links > create empty block > Paste.
Updated TOC pm Apr. 21, 2025.
Incoming Ideas
Egodeath Community Is Superior Like Late Antiquity Immortals who Integrate Paired Modified Eternalism-Thinking + Possibilism-Thinking
is there a picture in the medieval art genre of {mushroom-trees} depicting this idea?
My 2007 article shows Dionysus which strongly emphasizes this specific idea/ valuation.
IMO, per my ART INTERPRETATION, Great Canterbury Psalter / Eadwine reads as simply exclusively asserting eternalism, not as asserting a harmonious pairing of eternalism-thinking + possibilism-thinking.
What is the message of the mushroom-tree artists? which message is it: [here is studly bona fide Theory work] YOU ARE ON THE LEADING EDGE OF ALTERED STATE THEORY with the Egodeath theoryTM:
In the Psilocybin state, rely on eternalism-thinking, don’t rely on possibilism-thinking. –OR–
Harmoniously integrate possibilism-thinking & eternalism-thinking, mutually tempering and complementing each other.
As the world’s highest art interpreter, I say, Great Canterbury Psalter (Eadwine art director) and the mushroom-tree artists — the medieval art genre of {mushroom-trees} — transmit message #1, not message #2.
We can interpret f134 row 2 middle — the two women — as transmitting a message of wedding and marrying balance stable control {balance scale} andro gyne hermes aphrodite …. to transmit message #2.
Proposal: f134 Row 2 Right is a message of do not halt at relying on eternalism-thinking; maturely integrate possibilism-thinking + eternalism-thinking as two paired complementary mental models.
including the two women, {balance scale}, 3 guys especially building up to floating sage.
Row 2 Right: Integrate Possibilism-Thinking and Eternalism-Thinking
{balance scale} held by {stand on left foot} yet stable woman (L foot on stable col base)
floating sage rebuts both foolish youth & enlightened youth; rebuts basic possibilism-thinking and basic eternalism-thinking; asserts relying on the combination rather than only on possibilism or only on eternalism.
The floating sage interpretation problem STYMIED MY ANALYSIS IN NOV 2020: IS HE HIGH ON CANNABIS FLOATING??
Well-decoded now 6:38 pm Apr. 19, 2025: the most mature interp of floating sage is: wedded married andro-gyne couple both ways of thinking: both mental models: possibilism-thinking & eternalism-thinking coupled and mutally fitted together.
Do not affirm possibilism and stop. Do not affirm eternalism and stop.
NO ZERO SUM GAME WHERE POSSIBILISM TAKES ALL OR ETERNALISM TAKES ALL!
Instead, affirm possibilism-thinking and eternalism-thinking combined into a 2-head system that is unified harmoniously and productively.
Abraham and Isaac walked away into the prosperous blessed future, having done this thing and not withheld Isaac.
Schrodinger’s Isaac: Isaac was sacrificed in a way, and preserved in a way. He has been washed clean, honoring the divine control level.
Abraham rode off on his cleansed donkey on the path.
“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering. Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son. Abraham looked up and [behind him] there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. Because you have done this and have not withheld your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. Through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.” Gen 22:7-18 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%2022%3A7-18&version=NIV
Crop by Michael Hoffman
Abr: stand on right foot; Isaac: stand on left foot
Crop and annotations by Michael Hoffman, Egodeath.com, Jan. 3, 2025
balance stand on right foot; connected to rams standing L foot
{fire} = loose cognition; specifically loose cognition driving control transformation, per the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence (Jan. 1988; spec uploaded to the Web 1997).
Photo: Michael Hoffman; 1988 drafts of the Theory of Ego Transcendence, 1989 notebook; binders of 1986-1989 binder sheets of idea development.Photo & drawings: Michael Hoffman, March 9, 2014 after Thx 2013 The Power of Myth branching breakthrough: Eve Tempted by the Serpent (Cranach) + Douris kylix of Jason tree of garden of the hesperides with golden apples of immortality guarded by Ladon & Athena
Photo & drawings: Michael Hoffman, March 9, 2014 after Thx 2013 The Power of Myth branching breakthrough:
Eve Tempted by the Serpent (Cranach), in The Power of Myth, by Joseph Campbell.
Douris kylix of Jason tree of garden of the hesperides with golden apples of immortality guarded by Ladon & Athena.
The two mental models: {king steering in a tree}; {snake frozen in rock}: Do not put down “appearance”.
Not “mere appearance”; possibilism branching is our life shape always as control agents. Respect and cherish “appearance”, beloved child thinking, used 24×7 all the time.
Photo & drawings: Michael HoffmanPhoto & drawings: Michael Hoffman
2 models: geocentric for astral ascent mysticism, sun centric:
Image processing & contributed upload to the web ~2005 by Michael Hoffman
2 models: adult & child; branching then ADD non-branching; the child is returned alive to St. Eustace.
The Two-Headed Transcendent Person: Soul (Eternalism-Thinking) Married with Spirit (Transcendent Possibilism-Thinking)
Superior to … thus the savior does NOT just represent Demiurge Fate correction; Christ or Mithras does NOT merely represent imprisonment in block-universe eternalism; …
Sol = enlightenment about eternalism
Mithras, Christ, Dionysus = enlightenment about transcend eternalism into transcendent possibilism-thinking.
First, Dionysus enlightens you about eternalism; then about transcend eternalism to reach qualified possibilism-thinking / transcendent possibilism-thinking. Cross-permute the biased terms:
Dionysus = theory of ego transcendence = transcendent possibilism-thinking = harmonious marriage of the two. recursive: dionysus wdded to ariadne means not “basic possibilism-thinking + basic eternalism-thinking” – that is not integrated. it means qualified possibilism-thinking + qualified eternalism-thinking , but SOUNDS TOO NEGATIVE. it means transcendent possibilism-thinking + transcendent eternalism-thinking
transcendent eternalism-thinking
transcendent eternalism te
transcendent possibilism tp
The Wedding of Transcendent possibilism + transcendent eternalism (not brute possibilism + brute eternalism; not basic possibilism-thinking + basic eternalism-thinking)
A marriage is not a youth and maiden; is not a plain man and a plain woman. A marriage is a married man + a married woman forming a dyad, a couple, a coupling, a coupled pair.
childish thinking = earlier developmental psychospiritual structure per Ken Wilber; when the adult builds on their child developmental stage thinking, the adult “dis-identify, embrace, and include” child Isaac.
Sacrifice the child AND PRESERVE and cherish the child. Out grow but do not destroy; build on the child. Abandon child thinking in order to build on child thinking. dieai
external to the Egodeath theory parlance: the marriage of mature integrated no-free-will + freewill; the marriage of the wedding of freewill + determinism; ftt freewill thinking + determinism thiniking; modified each.
the marriage of modified freewill thinking + modified determinism thinking. two mature complementary integrated things.
REJECT THE ZERO-SUM GAME OF AFFIRMING ONE AND DENYING THE OTHER
AFFIRMING ETERNALISM IS NOT DENYING POSSIBILISM AFFIRMING POSSIBILISM IS NOT DENYING ETERNALISM
Tim Freke 2025: the unividual – not universe-only; not individual only; both an individual ego person AND nondual unity oneness.
A marriage input is youth + maiden, after marriage, they are not youth + maiden + adult man + adult woman.
immature male or female = maiden | youth = naive possibilism-thinking = basic possibilism-thinking
Red guy has eternalism-thinking but of what type?
Red buy does NOT have mature, transcendent eternalism-thinking. He only has BASIC crude brute unbalanced eternalism-thinking. He has not integrated eternalism-thinking with possibilism-thinking.
Floating sage has integrated eternalism-thinking with possibilism-thinking, which means, modifying eternalism-thinking & modifying possibilism-thinking so as to balance and co-operate as a paired coupling that is effective.
I experienced this need, this lack, when thinking about the peak window of the intense mystic altered state and trying to say “You need to think about X in Y way” and then I retorted what agent are you telling that directive to?”
Then I felt goddmanit you can’t win, it’s unsayable, “you should think of control in X way” – who are you talking to, since all is frozen in future already? The unclean lips problem.
I HAVE to talk and think in terms of possibilism branching – that is how our lived world is structured, despite the underlying revealed eternalism block.
To relate as a control agent, inherently is based in possibilism-thinking; egoic personal control system even after cleansing that system.
Isaac walks away from his sacrifice which God provided:
“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering. Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son. Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. Because you have done this and have not withheld your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. Through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.” Gen 22:7-18 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%2022%3A7-18&version=NIV s-o-i gen22
fool = naive and non integrated possibilism-thinking
wise floating sage = adult, married, mature, integrated transcendent possibilism-thinking + transcendent eternalism-thinking. He does not simply rely on possibilism-thinking nor eternalism-thinking. He relies on higher than either basic possibilism-thinking or basic eternalism-thinking; he relies on sophisticated integrated harmonious compromise paired combianation, a transcendent combining of modified [that is a more neatral word!] or “integrated”.
integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking – finally, mature and whole – HEALER CHRIST MAKES YOU WHOLE, the married man tempers the woman; the married woman tempers the man. modified eternalism-thinking + modified possibilism-thinking.
mature female = woman = qualified possibilism-thinking (sounds too negative) = transcendent possibilism-thinking (a positive framing); “mature possibilism-thinking” is too metaphor based; “modified” is neutral and good for science explanatory framework.
The man holds the Y; the man = comprehension of principle contrast of branching vs non-branching.
He holds branching, but that must mean he understands non-branching . Woman does NOT hold branching or non-branching.
By virtue of her NOT holding Y, she = gnosis of non-branching.
theory of ego transcendence toet
the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence ctet
the control transformation experience cte
transcendent possibilism-thinking tpt
“lived far before the rise of Cartesian dualism and had never heard of a “war between religion and science.”
“They would have seen absolutely no reason to place chemical and spiritual processes neatly in separate categories, one for the body and one for the spirit.
“On the contrary, they were trying to understand how body, soul, and spirit could be manifestations of one single dynamic reality.”
“psuchē) and matter (hulē) to just the first and the third (ibid., 75–76). This actually makes sense because the astral daimons influence both body and soul. In this passage, all that really matters (excuse the pun) is the liberation of the spirit from the compound of a body animated by a living soul; once this liberty is achieved, the incarnational bond is broken and all that remains is pure spirit and dead matter (i.e. the ὕλη on which Theosebeia can afford to spit, see note 77). The hulic body [& soul (or lower soul)] is an empty shell, very much like a corpse that astral [sphere 8, Ogdoad] daimons may play with as they will since the spirit [sphere 9, Ennead] is now beyond their grasp.”
— ebook p 118, Wouter Hanegraaff
“out of itself, the nous now brings forth a secondary nous, a “god of fire and spirit [usu spher e 9]” who acts as a demiurge [sphere 8], a cosmic architect or craftsman. He proceeds to fashion the “seven governors, [sphere 1-7]” the planets that are circling the earth. Their governance is called heimarmenē, the cosmic machinery of fate [what about sphere 8, contains zodiac therefore also = Fate & demiurge & here the “lower nous”] that rules everything in the world of the senses. This installation of the planetary system [sphere 1-7, governed by demurge in sphere 8] has an immediate effect on the logos that still finds itself down there” 168 Wouter Hanegraaff
p 194 ebook: Wouter Hanegraaff quotes: “being astonished is placed in opposition to lacking faith signifies that astonishment and admiration lead to faith. It appears that the latter has little to do with the classical sense of πίστις [pistis]. Linked rather to astonishment and admiration, it would allow the spirit to elevate itself to another reality that is hidden from what appears to the eye.”
My accounting:
sphere 8 = soul = perceive fixed stars with eye. the visble cosmos = eternalism / heimarmene / fatedness.
sphere 9 = spirit = not visible. implied. transcend eternalism. higher than the revelation and the purification into eternalism. When you are purified by eternalism, you afterwards ascend higher to above eternalism , the spirit goes higher to there, sphere 9.
p 198: “watching in this manner leads to a sense of admiration or astonishment (thaumasai), and this is how our spirit gains knowledge of divinity – by being elevated to “another reality that is hidden from what appears to the eye.””
I ALREADY SEE DESTRUCTION OF Hanegraaff NARRATIVE SINCE VISIBLE = BAD = COSMOS, AND FIXED STARS ARE VISIBLE, THEREFORE FIXED STARS MUST BE INCLUDED IN “THE COSMOS”, THUS SPHERE 8 OGOAD = VISIBLE = BAD = THE COSMOS = FATE. REBORN INTO FATE PRISON, THEN AFTER, LIFTED SPIRIT UP TO SPHERE 9 OUTSIDE THE COSMOS = INVISIBLE.
P 198 OR 199? RIGHT Right side, maybe =199.: “the cosmos is the totality of all that is bad, whereas God is the totality of what is good, or if you will, the Good is the totality of God.
“For the most excellent Beauty is found in being itself, but those splendors that are the essence of God’s Being are even purer and more perfect.
“One must dare to say it, Asclepius, that God’s being (if he has one) is Beauty; but
“neither the Beautiful nor the Good are to be found in anything that exists in the cosmos.
“For whatever can be seen by our visual sight [EMPHASIS ON FIXED STARS!! AGAINST Hanegraaff] consists of nothing but phantom images and illusions.
“Only what can not be seen, notably the [essence] of the Beautiful and the Good [is real].
“And just as the eye cannot see God, neither can it see the Beautiful and the Good. Both are integral parts of God, they…”
p. 260: SPIRIT = GOD = NOETIC = NOUS = hearing the sound of the sphere 9 when you are in sphere 8:
“This is what the powers in me are shouting: they praise the All. They fulfill your will, for your will comes from you and returns to you, the All.
“Accept from all a verbal offering. Life: preserve the All that is in us!
“For the nous [sphere 9] guides your logos, you who carries the spirit and who are the maker of the world.”
p. 258 Hanegraaff is highly confusing, about levels, “the Ogdoad above the heimarmene” – p. 258, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022 ; which sphere = rebirth; swhere which sphere # = cosmos; which sphere # = singing the song on high; whcih sphere # do you HEAR the song that is Sung on the above sphere above that sphere!
“it is clearly implied that whereas Hermes can hear the powers [singers who are on sphere 8] because he has already made his ascent to the Ogdoad [sphere 8], at least temporarily, Tat has not yet made that ascent [to sphere 8] and therefore still cannot hear them directly [ambig! indirectly, b/c singers are in sphere 9]. To understand what is happening as the hymn unfolds,”
sphere 9 = singers
sphere 8 = Hermes, who can hear sphere 9, and hermes sings.
sphere 7 = Tat, who hears the singing of Hermes who is in sphere 8.
— Michael Hoffman, BSEE, able to count to 9 unlike Wouter Hanegraaff
fixed stars define sphere 8 ogdoad. fixed stars = fate. therefore, against Hanegraaff , Ogdoad = Fate. If tat is reborn into Ogdoad, Tat is reborn into fate, not yet into sphere 9 above Fate.
per the Egodeath theory model of Psilocybin transformation, rebirth and purification is FIRST into Eternalism, and after that , the 2nd phase of rebirth is into transcendent possibilism, above eternalism.
Ogdoad = sphere 8 = initial rebirth to comply purely with Fate / eternalism ; soul (or, lower part of soul)
Ennead = sphere 9 = 2nd phase of rebirth, to rise above Fate/ eternalism ; spirit (or, higher part of soul)
intensively analyze the sphere #’s in this confused passage from p 259: Hanegraaff :
“that Tat gets the message.
“He may have to leave his physical body to actually hear the Ogdoadic [sic? ambig? enneadic?] hymn; but his new energetic body of rebirth already provides him limitless access to all the beauty and creative plenitude that is visually manifest in the cosmos. Having invited “everybody” to join him in the hymn, Hermes…”
back to p 260:
“the noetic energies respond to the invocation [from Hermes who is at sphere 8] and begin to sing [from sphere 9]. Not just that: they are positively shouting! Rather than sing along with them now, Hermes [who is in sphere 8] tells Tat [who is in sphere 7] what he is hearing: This is what the powers in me are shouting [who are in sphere 9]: they praise the All.”
Con’t Find of ‘spirit’, p. 268:
p 268: “the universal Spirit (Pneumatos) on which the universe depends.
“While this Spirit carries all things, keeps them alive and provides them with nourishment, still it is not the ultimate reality.
In its turn, it [spirit] depends upon “the holy fountain [uncontrollable source of control-thoughts] [tēs hagias pēgēs], eternally existing as a helper to spirits and a source of life for all [zōēs apasin aei huparchon], while yet being one.”
p 268 con’t: “The special importance of this passage lies in the fact that it focuses not on the divine nous [sphere 9] that dominates almost all of the literature in which Hermes plays the central role, but on a level [sphere 10] that is even beyond it. The nous [sphere 9] itself comes from an ultimate “fountain” or “source” [sphere 10 aka level 10, outside the cosmos – if ‘cosmos’ has any defined specific boundary / sphere #!] that is described, no fewer than three times, in deliberately paradoxical terms:
“it is the unique “noetic [sphere 10] light prior to the noetic [sphere 9] light,” “the nous [sphere 10] of the luminous nous [sphere 9],” and it “contains everything by its own nous and light and pneuma.”
“In short, there is a nous [sphere 10] beyond the nous [sphere 9]; we might perhaps say that it is that which appears as “noetic” to the nous itself, similar to how the nous is noetic for us.
“Although technically this makes it “hypernoetic,” the text does not bother to make such a distinction.
[like Hanegraaff does not bother to place fate-soaked fixed stars anywhere is his cosmos b/c the fixed stars of course would have to go int the rebirth-phase-1 sphere 8, my precious Ogdoad, & we can’t have that!]
“Agathos Daimo-n says that in an ultimate sense, absolutely nothing truly exists except this single (hyper)noetic source alone – “no God, no angel, no daimon, nor anything else.”
[9] = t’d Fate, Ennead, outside the cosmos, spirit (higher soul), rebirth phase 2, not visible. Nous. Spirit (lower spirit).
[10] = pege; source; uncontrollable source of control-thoughts. the high Creator, the true God. Logos.
p. 273, find of “spirit”: “The process of dissolution and of “life vanishing into the invisible” is described in CH X: the life-giving spirit (pneuma) [9] withdraws from the body [7] into the soul [8], while the blood coagulates so that it can no longer flow through the arteries.
“Thus deprived of the pneuma’s [9] circulation, the body [7] stops moving and begins to fall apart.”
Too Many Arbitrary Constructs in Ancient Explanations, Prevents Useful Explanation
nous [9]
logos [10??] – now i have to halt research and chase after wtf cosmos sphere level is ‘logos’? DEFINE YOUR DAMN TIRESOME TERMINOLOGICAL DEGENERATE ORGY OF GNOSTIC CANCEROUS OVERGROWTH OF UNNEEDED GRATUITOUS MULTIPLICATION OF ENTITIES, ends up cancelling any potential of explanatory power.
soul [8]
pneuma [9]
I’ve got the Richard Carrier “Science in Antiquity” Blues.
All these junk needless unhelpful redundant terms. MADNESS! Commit it all to the flames!
Unconstrained proliferation of needless pseudo-explanatory terms.
When does “explanation” become “baffle them with bullsh!t and act like you’ve explained something? I can invent “explanatory” terms, a hundred of them.
Reminds me of psychedelic pseudo science: “Neuroplasticity, ego dissolution, surrender. THERE, WE EXPLAINED IT. Nod your head now.”
GODDAMNIT TOO FKKING MANY CONSTRUCTIONS! I HATE MYSTICISM! = confusion fabricated by confused people.
To do scholarship theory, you require strong stomach for disgustingly multiplying unnecesary constructs.
NEED OCKAM RAZOR!
Analogy abused to make complicated and unclear.
Analogy is SUPPOSED to be used to clarify and explain.
NOT MULTIPLY DUPLICATE CONSTRUCTS THAT ARE SUPERFLUOUS!
“Nous, logos, lower soul, higher soul, spirit, lower body, higher reborn body of soul-spirit” — JESUS F’KING– NEED A BIG SWORD to cut off all the overgrowth of WEEDS CONSTRUCTS OVERGROWTH.
Poor Hanegraaff resorts to “tables of equivalent constructs across 15 systems”, just to try to straighten out mapping of cosmos spheres 8, 9, & 10.
Dr Sledge: hermetica is a mess, see Phil instead.
UNHELPFUL! CONFUSING! hopeless to straighten out THEIR mess!
“During incarnation, the nous [9? 10?] had been safely enveloped all around by its logos [10], this logos [9?] in turn by the soul [8], and finally the soul [8] by the pneuma [9].
nous 9-10 body 7-8
“These protective layers were necessary because the physical body [7] cannot endure direct contact with the superior energy of the nous [9], whereas the nous [9] cannot tolerate direct contact with the impure bodily [7] passions either.34
“Now that the body [7] dissolves, the nous [9] can shed its envelopes.
“It replaces them by a fiery robe [9] of its own, which it could not wear during incarnation because even a tiny spark of it would have destroyed the physical body [7].35
“Making use of this shining vehicle, the nous [9] is now free from all constraints: “it moves around everywhere while leaving the soul [8] to the judgment and justice it deserves.” p 273
Hermetica: “Somewhat Conflicting” – Hanegraaff. You Don’t Say!
LOL Hanegraaff writes “somewhat conflicting“.
p. 274: “the nous [9] abandons the scene to go roaming the cosmos [10 in the broad sense] in its fiery vehicle, it leaves the soul [8] to “the judgment and justice it deserves.”
“Yet the Hermetica tell us remarkably little about the soul’s [8] afterlife, and even less about its pre-incarnational existence.44
“Putting the scant pieces of evidence together, it appears that the critical condition required for salvation [9] was not whether a person had achieved rebirth [into 8 then 9] or attained perfect gnōsis [9] but whether he or she had “passed the test of reverence.” [8 imo]
“This formulation appears in CH X and is defined there as “knowing the divine and harming no other human being.”45
“I have been emphasizing the central importance of eusebeia to Hermetic spirituality and want to stress it once again: we are not dealing with an arrogant elitism that reserves salvation for only the few, but with a spiritual [9[ perspective that placed the emphasis on an ethical life and would like to see the best for all human beings.46
“While the path of rebirth [8 then 9] and perfect gnōsis [9?] was certainly steep and demanding, every human being could live a life of reverence grounded in gratitude and respect for the beauty of the cosmos [8; 10 in broad sense] and concern for the well-being of others.
“About the fate of those who fail the test of reverence [stuck at sphere 7], we are given somewhat conflicting information.”
I hate the sloppy way the heremetic authors and therefore Hanegraaff carelessly writes: p 275 “continual transformation of all things in the cosmos, most of our treatises speak in general terms about”
WHAT SPHERE # = “IN THE COSMOS”?! For god sake, give the damn sphere # every time you say “in the cosmos” or “outside the cosmos”. Hanegraaff and all hermetic scholars do, and do not, do that: Hanegraaff book says definitely and wrongly: “the cosmos = 7 planet spheres, 1-7, and 0 Earth”. Hanegraaff writes definitely, explicitly, and WRONGLY, “sphere 8 ogdoad is outside the cosmos”.
Insanity: how can the fixed stars be “outside the cosmos”, since they are by far the most visible thing of the cosmos?! He doesn’t say fixed stars are outside the cosmos , he says “the Ogdoad – sphere 8 – is outside the cosmos”, and, he deletes the fixed stars from sphere 8. Madness!
A cosmic failure of a cosmos model that cannot place the fixed stars in sphere 8 which is defined by the fixed stars, the brightest most obvious thing in the sky.
All hermetic scholars dutifully follow suit: every other paragraph, they say cosmos = sphere 8, or cosmos = sphere 7.
Silent flip flop contradiction dance move. Hope no one notices.
The cosmos means 1-7,
and,
the cosmos means 1-8
and the cosmos means 1-10.
Now follow my explanation of ascension from 1 to 10 — while I show total sloppiness and COMPLETE radical INCONSISTENCY OF USING the phrase ‘THE COSMOS’.
REDEFINE ‘in the cosmos’ 8 times in each sentence.
Zilch attention to differentiating sphere # of “in the cosmos” vs. “outside the cosmos”.
One moment, ‘cosmos’ means 1-10; next moment, 1-7.
“in the cosmos” means “STUFF THAT IS, OR SORT OF IS, THAT IS GLORIOUS, AND FALLEN, AND THE BODY, AND HIGHER THAN SPIRIT, COSMOS COSMOS MEANS “STUFF”. It means “Is-ness”.
Now “in the cosmos” means sphere 1-7.
Now “in the cosmos” means sphere 1-8.
Now “in the cosmos” means sphere 0-9.
Now “in the cosmos” means sphere 0-10.
Per Dr. Justin Sledge, Hermetic writings are not Philosophy, this is pseudo-Philosophy styled make-stuff-up as you go, with sloppy folk writing.
It’s ancient Newage junk writing: Throw in some Science terms, a jumbled mess, call it a “spiritual ascent wisdom model”, self-contradictory mess marketed as “Revelation of Logos coherent truth”.
Quantum Mysticism, made-up sciency sounding mystical fwk of mental model transformation.
An incoherent, nonsensical model of mental model transformation.
Use the cosmos (per ancient Science) as a model for astral ascent mysticism, then totally botch the basic science, punt and delete all the fixed stars.
Here’s the wonderful Ogdoad (my precious), purged of all the fixed stars that DEFINED sphere 8 IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Madhouse nonsense!
What a pathetic sorry failure, see instead David Ulansey’s solution explaining Mithraism coherently, with no omitting of 99.99% of the night sky required. Total failure of a cosmos model.
MAXIMUM FAILURE DISASTER. TOTAL CATASTROPHE, Hanegraaff’s COSMOS BLOWS ITSELF UP IMMEDIATELY.
The ancient hermetic writers’ fake affectation of Phil styling, w/ no mental consistency or effort to be consistent.
p 277: “when their souls [8] rise up through the cosmic spheres [1-8] after the body’s [7] dissolution.”
p 277 demands intensive sphere-counting:
“attain gnōsis [8 & 9] already during embodiment [7] – and this is what the rebirth [8 then 9] was all about.
“As the “torments of matter” [7] had already been expelled and they were enjoying a pure [8] noetic body [probably 8 bc “noetic” = 9 but “body” = 7] free from the cosmic [8] constraints of time and space [8], there would be nothing left for them to surrender to the planetary [7] daimons [ruled by demiurge on 8].
“As a result, they would not even need to “rise up” through the spheres [7 planet + 8 fixed stars] in any literal or vertical sense, but could be up there in the Ogdoad [8 for soul lower rebirth / lower soul; 9 for spirit higher rebirth & higher soul] from one moment to the next, as will be seen.
“Before we turn to that culminating experience, we need to look at the nature of the levels of life in the Hermetic universe [8, or 10]:
“what exactly was meant by the Ogdoad [8] and the Ennead [9], and how did they relate to the ultimate Source? [10]
“From the perspective of human beings moving upwards, the lower levels [1-7] of life are rather unproblematic:
from pure matter at the very bottom [0, 1], the soul ascends through the seven planetary spheres [1-7] that together constitute the cosmos [sic!! on what basis, which texts, Hanegraaff, do you justify defining “the cosoms” as 7, rather than sphere 8??!! which yyou see fixed stars in 8 with visible eyes!], as delineated in CH I 25: the Moon, Mercury, Venus, the Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.
DO THE FIXED STARS NOT CONSTITUTE THE COSMOS (TOGETHER W THE 7 PLANET SPHERES)? AFTER ALL, FIXED STARS ARE “VISIBLE TO THE EYE”, AS YOU YOURSLF JUST WROTEn PAGES EARLIER!
[per Cyberdisciple: bad citation format, ambig! Yes, CH 1: 25 says the planet spheres in the cosmos are 7, moon – sat, – but does that text say that sphere 8 fixed stars visible sky is NOT in the cosmos?!
I have Litwa’s book 2025 Hermeetica 1 – NOWHERE DO hermetic TEXTS SAY “OGDOAD SPHERE 8 FIXED STARS IS OUTSIDE THE COSMOS”!
WTFF! NOT JUST INSANITY OF Hanegraaff ;
Every single muddle-headed Hermetic scholar goes insane right here, totally contradicting themselves in every other paragraph, & video script.]
“Much more difficult to understand are the three highest levels “above[sic] the cosmic[sic] framework” [nonsense confusion here from Hanegraaff!]: the Eighth or Ogdoad, the Ninth or Ennead, and finally that which I have referred to as the Source [10].
“The problem is that our dualistic consciousness leads us to imagine this triad [8, 9, 10 – but he should be only talking about 9 & 10, if he is truly talking about “above the cosmos”] in spatial terms, as three vertical levels stacked on top of the cosmos [sic; he is thinking of just sphere 1-7 within the actually 8-sphere cosmos].
“Hence we think of the soul [lower: 8; higher: 9] as leaving the cosmic [he thinks 7; he should think 8] domain, traveling upward through the Ogdoadic sphere [he thinks 8 is above cosmos, but it is not] then leaving it again [he’s saying: leaving 7 = exiting cosmos AND leaving 8 = exiting cosmos] to enter the higher Enneadic [9] sphere, and finally [spirit, or higher soul] coming to rest there while gazing up to the highest level [10] above it [9].
“In picturing the process this way, we forget [translation: I am completely confused about 8 and where to put the visible fixed stars] that the very conditions of space and time pertained strictly to the seven-leveled [SIC! what text says the cosmos has 7 (not 8) spheres!?! CITATION NEEDED!] cosmos, not to hypercosmic {8}[9] reality.
[sail by the light of David Ulansey here: ‘hypercosmic’ means 9, NOT 8!]
“From the nondualist perspective of the one and only Source [10], our spatial [8] imagination is a mere concession to our limited understanding.”
ie, “to my limited understanding.”
/ ends on ebook page 278
Gross Misuse of ‘Hypercosmic’
Notation: {7} = what Hanegraaff is thinking in his delusion/ confusion; [8] = actual sphere numbering.
Hanegraaff misuses the word ‘hypercosmic’ to mean sphere 8 (fixed stars) and 9 and 10.
The result is too confusing and garbled to analyze.
Hanegraaff needs to burn it [the key passages] and start over, like David Ulansey’s solution explaining Mithraism:
Don’t say ‘hypercosmic’ except where you mean sphere 9 or 10, abovethe MAIN cosmic sphere, which is sphere 8 fixed stars!
As surely as looking at the sky! This couldn’t be more obvious!
Hopeless trainwreck trash heap, I’d have to rewrite the key passages of his book, better than trying to sort out his confusion.
I can’t take it, watch Star Wars with Darth Wouter “Star Destroyer” Hanegraaff:
Wouter Hanegraaff, high on his non-drug entheogens, can’t count to 8:
“Whether the fixed stars should be included [with Saturn, sphere 7] or should rather be associated with the Ogdoad [sphere 8] remains an open question for me.” – p. 294, footnote 114, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022
p 278: “Thus it is not out of obscurity but because they wanted to be precise,
How about YOU be precise about where the sphere number 8 came from (fixed stars), and whether or not sphere 8 Ogdoad fixed stars is in the cosmos or not?
Since the fixed stars are the most visible thing in the world, FAR MORE visible than the 7 planets, the cosmos INCLUDES sphere 8 which is by definition, as a simplest of givens, where the fixed stars are, since fixed stars are definitive of sphere 8, and as backdrop against which 5 planets wander.
“The cosmic framework” cannot possibly mean anything other than fixed stars, which define sphere 8 , which is Ogdoad, which is Fatedness/ Heimarmene, which is the destination of rebirth part 1.
Sphere 8 is in the cosmos. Soul (sometimes “lower soul”.
Sphere 9 Ennead is rebirth part two , spirit, outside the cosmos. (Sometimes “the higher portion of the soul”.)
Sloppy Hermetic writers are poor at thinking and writing: Perverse! decadent!
They strive to obfuscate and confuse!
lower body [7]
higher body [8]; lower soul [8]
higher soul [9]; lower spirit [9]
higher spirit [10]
“that our authors are struggling so hard to convey some sense of perfect gnōsis through the imperfect medium of logos – an instrument that, unlike nous, simply cannot “get as far as the truth.”
Suggestion Hanegraaff: try Math instead of Language: learn to count sphere numbers:
The fixed stars are ALWAYS numbered as sphere 8. Saturn is ALWAYS numbered as sphere 7.
The phrase “in the cosmos” is always used without definition by ancient and modern writers to mean 7/8/9/10.
Always say the phrase “in the cosmos” and “outside the cosmos” with a tone of confident assurance, while freely redefining it so that fixed stars sphere 8 flips and slips – one moment it’s “in the cosmos”, next it’s “outside the cosmos”.
I haven’t seen such slip-n-slide shell game since entheogen scholarship re: “sacred mushrooms” (a totally bogus and disproved fake category invented to try to force real Psilocybin and mythic Amanita to be the same thing, and to lump in ergot, to boot).
“sacred fungus”, sacred produce of bull sh!t!
What does “in the cosmos” mean? Make it up as you go. Now sphere 7, now 8, now 9, now 10, now back to meaning 7 again.
What does “outside the cosmos” mean? Make it up as you go. Now sphere 8, now 9, now 10, now back to meaning 8 again.
p 279: Hanegraaff DOES try math and proper tracking.
“The Hermetica talk about the supra-cosmic triad in terminologies that reflect Egyptian and Platonic-Neopythagorean backgrounds and can be highly confusing.
“In Table 9.1, I make a rough attempt at listing the main equivalences, based on the primary sources combined with interpretations provided by [Jean-Pierre] Mahé and [Christian] Bull.
“The [table] columns on the right refer to two parallel systems which according to Iamblichus were explained by Hermes in what he refers to as his “20.000” or even “36.525” books.
Table 9.1: The supracosmic Triad”
his table has rows for cosmos spheres / levels 10, 9, & 8. I would add my column saying the correct understanding of each sphere.
10 Decan?
9 Ennead
8 Ogdoad
p. 279: “CH I we read that as the seven primal humans were born, “life became soul and light became nous.”66
“Keeping in mind that Hermes perceived the Nous (Poimandres) as a boundless expanse of lovable light,67 this makes it reasonable to assume that a human’s nous is linked to the Ennead and his or her life-force to the Ogdoad (while in addition, Light and Life were probably gendered as the male and female aspect of the androgynous nous).
“If so, the Ogdoad [8] becomes the realm of individual living souls, while the Ennead [9] is the boundless noetic [9] realm of Light [9] beyond individuality.68
“They are united insofar as only noetic [9] souls [usu 8, sometimes 9 if we mean higher part of soul] can reach the Ogdoad [8], but can be distinguished insofar as these souls are [p 281] looking “up” from there [8] to the Ennead: [9] living entities gazing at the Light. [9]”
Need Notation: What Sphere #s Hanegraaff Wrongly Is Thinking, vs. Correct Numbering, eg: in the fate-ruled cosmos {7}[8] ie he thinks sphere 7, it’s actually 8
{7}[8] notation invented by Michael Hoffman 12:10 noon apr 19 2025
p282 in ebook of Wouter Hanegraaff 2022: I am continuing Find on “spirit” but I am slowing down at these pages about Rebirth. “Furthermore, Mahé provides no clear evidence for his belief that Tat’s rebirth occurs in the Ogdoad and the Ennead;”
What aspect of Mahe’s reading is Hanegraaff disagreeing with?
I think Hanegraaff says Mahe misinterprets the text as discussing the soul’s journey after bodily literal death. I think Hanegraaff (ironically) emphasizes the mundane desert here, in order to switch away from Mahe’s assumed reading of the text as if the text is armchair speculation about the soul’s afterlife journey after death.
Hanegraaff is re-framing the ancient text as a guide for altered state ascent now, in the desert.
en d of page 282 ebook: “rebirth experience, The Ogdoad and the Ennead describes something new and different: a direct experience of supra-cosmic realities that was possible only for those who had already become the aiōn.”
aion = [sphere 9 or 10] – can I place it exactly in 9 or 10?
Hanegraaff is fighting against psychedelics deniers – that’s not my fight. His objections are confusing becase orthogonal to my concerns and assumptions.
The genre question: I am alientated from the messa masses b/c the masses are fighting over the genre question, but for me it is finished and over. Conclusion: The genre of religious wrigings writings is:
Religious writings are analogies describing Psilocybin transformation.
OBVIOUSLY it’s a simple given that these texts are Psilocybin transformation analogies.
Hanegraaff is busy fighting a battle (against Mahe) that was done 20 years ago, from my POV. I criticize Hanegraaff from the other side: Hanegraaff UNDEREMPHASIZES and underestimates how much religious texts are about Psilocybin transformation, NOT bodily afterlife.
ebook p 110: “Remembering Plutarch’s remarks about the effects of kuphi incense on the imaginative faculty,137 one would like to know more about the “drugs” or “potions” mentioned twice in this same passage,138 but Iamblichus does not spill any entheogenic secrets. What he does make clear is that, like ritual possession trance in many other periods and cultural contexts, the essential purpose of theurgy was healing. We have seen that the descent into…”
“one would like to know more about the “drugs” or “potions” mentioned twice in this same passage, but Iamblichus does not spill any entheogenic secrets.” – Hanegraaff, Hermetic Spirituality & Altered States en-se
Returning to Find of “spirit”… (76 hits in ebook) ~~ did i hit p 296? no.
Against Hanegraaff’s appeasement baloney academic dance moves, you can see his real belief above.
The trauma reported by Jessica Nathanson (bothand youtube channel) with Tim Freke, shows that Advaita non-drug meditation can break and harm egoic thinking, in a way that Ken Wilber warns about in 1977-1985 books: instead of
dis-identify, embrace, and include childhood mental developmental structures, badly framed Advaita doctrine can just destroy the earlier development structures (egoic thinking), producing mere catestrophic disintegration that Ken Wilber warned against.
Falling down into a shattered “pre ego” state of cognitive structural development, not the Marketing-promised TRANSCENDING of child ego development accomplishment, by “dis-identify, embrace, and include” that Wilber advocates, guiding the way to actual transcending of child-mode ego thinking.
So, meditation “can” produce Psilocybin effects. Still, the proper normal way is Psilocybin as the gold standard reference.
Mahe assumes texts are literal afterlife soul journey philosophy.
Hanegraaff battles against Mahe, asserting “The texts are about the entheogenic altered state that is like Psilocybin transformation right now, during life.” [Hanegraaff strongly implies he knows the truth: he wrote “the heremetic author doesn’t spill any beans about the entheogen” need exact quote]. Hanegraaff tries to fence-sit, both asserting the entheogen theory, and backpedalling with his bullshit about “a zillion non-drug methods can/ could/ might/ may produce same as two bowls of Cubensis.” Hanegraaff signs onto the usual AGREED LIE OF THE ACADEMICS, their drug-war-era phony academic construct, “the traditional non-drug methods of the mystics”. Hanegraaff tries to play both strategies: “They used entheogens, obviously, don’t be thick”, and “Countless other methods are the same as entheogens.”
I criticize Hanegraaff: Cut the non-drug apologetics! The intense mystic altered state was exclusively from Psilocybin, b/c only Psilocybin is consistent and strong.
p. 284 ebook: “the rebirth results in an embodied state of cosmic consciousness, it does not give access automatically to hypercosmic realities beyond the seven planetary spheres [sic, hypercosmic = sphere 9+, not 8+]. In NH VI6 we read how Hermes and an unnamed pupil – although we do not know for sure, I will follow Christian Bull’s example and call him Tat79 – take the next and final step of entering the Ogdoad [8] and perceiving the Ennead [9] as it flows forth from the Source [10].”
resume here: Find “spirit” in ebook:
p. 285: “his brothers and honors them properly, as fits the beauty of the rebirth.87
“As they were born again, Hermes has given each of them a new name.88
“They are pneumatics [9] now, spiritual [9] entities; they exist as immortal [9] energies that have the power to nourish other souls and make them grow.89
“As Tat is convinced by this explanation and wants to move on to the prayer that will initiate the Ogdoadic [8: reveal Fatedness; rebirth of soul into pure Eternalism] and Enneading [9: reveal transcending Fatedness; rebirth of spirit above Fatedness] revelation,90 Hermes tells him
“Child, let us pray to the Father of the All [10], together with your brothers who are my sons, that he may grant his pneuma [9] so that I may speak.”91
“The significance of this statement lies in the suggestion that those brothers are therefore physically present with them.92
“This makes NH VI6 into something quite different from CH XIII: not the description of a rebirth experience that happens unexpectedly and involves just Hermes and Tat,”
p. 288 ebook: “Tat is now ready to take the plunge, he restates what is about to happen. They will pray to God [10] that he may grant his power [dunamis],96 so that Hermes can transmit this noetic [9] energy to Tat by means of his voice. This divine force is called “the gift of the Ogdoad [8],”97 and Hermes repeats once more that each of them will have his own role to play: “Your job is to noeticize [9], mine is to be able to express the logos [9?] from the Source [10] that wells up in me.”98”
todo: is Logos = sphere 9? Find logos in ebook.
“I call upon you [10] who rules over the kingdom of power, whose Logos [9?] is an offspring of Light, whose words are immortal, eternal and immutable, whose will produces the life of images everywhere, whose nature [phusis] gives form [morphē] to essence [ousia], from whom souls [8] … and angels [9] are put into motion …. to all who exist, whose providence extends to everyone … who brings forth everyone, who has divided the aiōn [9?] among the spirits [9], who has fashioned everything, who has himself inside himself, carrying all things in his fullness.100
“These first sentences are addressed to the supreme Hermetic triad.101
“The ultimate Source [10] rules over the kingdom of power, which must be the Ennead [9], the domain of noetic [9] powers.
“We have seen that the Ennead [9] is Light [9] and brings forth the Logos [9?], the producer of superior “immortal, eternal and immutable” words – these I take to be the “sounds full of power”…” end of p 288
p 289: “The Source [10] has also given birth to the life of images everywhere, which I assume must mean the aiōn [9?] , God’s “incorporeal imagination” filled with noēmata [9] .
“By giving form to essences, the Source [10] has finally given birth to the living souls [8] and angels [9] that are moving in the Ogdoad [8].
[is Hanegraaff correct that angels are in sphere 8? i’d guess angels = sphere 9]
“All these entities together constitute the unitary divine fullness of true reality, the God who is All in All.
“Now that the divine triad [10, 9, & 8] has been properly invoked, the prayer moves on to its crucial middle part, culminating in an impressive series of vowels and nomina”
Problem! “the cosmic domain (7 planetary spheres)”? Citation Needed! Why Does Not the “Cosmic” Domain Include the Zillion Fixed Stars that Blind the Night? ie, include sphere 8!
Given Hanegraaff’s confusion and self-contradiction and nonsensical notion of “the cosmos” as if excluding fixed stars, cannot know proper level sphere in which to place “life” – offhand, I guess “life” = sphere 8, not 7!
Also he says “hypercosmic” but guaranteed trainwreck errors there, his concept of cosmic and hypercosmic is WRONG. If words mean anything!
‘Cosmic’ MUST mean sphere 8, NOT 7, and if ancients said 7, they have mashed potatoes for brains, it’s sheer nonsense!
‘hypercosmic’ therefore MUST mean sphere 9, NOT sphere 8!
This is a consistent error vexing the entire book, wrecking Hanegraaff’s entire cosmos model and uindersn understanding of the nature of rebirth.
Proof that this book is a confused disaster failed model of rebirth in relation to eternalism / heimarmene: Wouter Hanegraaff CANNOT PLACE THE FATE-SOAKED FIXED STARS INTO THEIR SPOT, THE OGDOAD, SPHERE 8. Admitted by infamous footnote 114.
In fact rebirth part 1 is first of the soul into sphere 8 fixed stars pure Heimarmene, which is cosmic, not hypercosmic.
You CANNOT be reborn into above-Fate, until after you (the soul) are purified by pure 100% Fatedness; heimarmene-conformity of thinking.
Then part 2 of rebirth is of the spirit (sometimes “higher soul”) into the actually hypercosmic sphere 9, which means, transcend eternalism/ Heimarmene/ Fatedness; leaving prison rock trap enslavement, born (only then) out from the Fate-ruled cosmos rock.
See his coming up admission: “Whether the fixed stars should be included [with Saturn, sphere 7] or should rather be associated with the Ogdoad [sphere 8] remains an open question for me.” – p. 294, footnote 114, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022
Hanegraaff 1 Time Does Proper Explicit Sphere-Counting, writing: “true life in the Ennead (9), the ultimate noetic reality”
p. 291: ““life” [7] was associated with the cosmic domain (7 planetary spheres) while so-called “death” was understood as true life in the Ennead (9) [9], the ultimate noetic [9] reality of eternal Light [9].
re: light, see David Ulansey’s Mithras and the Hypercosmic Sun, http://www.mysterium.com/hypercosmic.html — he PROPERLY uses the term ‘hypercosmic’, defined intelligently and coherently and science-conformant, ‘hypercosmic’ means sphere 9. NOT sphere 8!! Ulansey doesn’t shipwreck his cosmos model in Hanegraaff’s the vain and futile preconception that desiring rebirth into Ogdoad can’t possibly mean desiring to rebirth into the headquarters of fate-soaked fixed stars Heimarmene in sphere 8 my precious Ogdoad.
Hanegraaff demonizes and represses Fatedness, blowing up his system model into insane nonsense.
Hanegraaff constructs a Yaldabaoth malformed story of rebirth that doesn’t make any sense and conflicts with the psychedelic revelation of eternalism, lift lid of snake basket to purify-to-death the child-thinking.
p. 291 con’t:
“This also helps explain a peculiar passage later on in our text, when Tat seems to falter for a moment and Hermes tells him to “return to the death-state.”106 Rather than slipping back into his habitual clouded state of consciousness “under the sway”
Musical Argument for the Superiority of the Egodeath Theory’s Model of Astral Ascent Mysticism
Musical arg for superiority of the Egodeath theory model of astral ascent mysticism: the octave is perfect.
What use is a scale of 7 tones, if you lack the octave as part of the scale?
Hanegraaff can’t do that, because he demonizes and severs the 7 from sphere 8.
In fact the 7 spheres go along with sphere 8, forming together the cosmos.
7 notes of scale AND the octave, note 8.
That is musical.
Not severing note 8 as Hanegraaff does unmusically w/o ability to achieve resolution.
p 292: “just one possibility among a much wider range of musical scales that were current in antiquity.112
“Since we do not know which one(s) would have been used by Hermetic practitioners, all we can say with confidence is that the scale would run from omega (Saturn) [7] as the lowest tone to alpha (Moon) [1] as the highest.
DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?! The octave, 8, is missing. 7 tone scale has 7 tones but you should mention the octave, 8.
“In trying to reconstruct the invocation on this basis, I would call attention to a parallel scenario attributed to the second-century Valentinian teacher Marcus:
“The first heaven [1? 7?] utters the A, the one after it E, the third Ē, the fourth, which is in the middle of the seven, utters the power [dunamin] [sphere 10?] I, the fifth O, the sixth U, and the seventh, which is the fourth from the middle, expresses the Ō. …
“All these powers, … when lined up to one another, sound forth the praises of him by whom they were brought forth. The glory of this sound is sent up again to the Forefather. The echo [ēchon]”
p. 293:
“Hermes and Tat are chanting the expanding series of seven successive vowels as their consciousness ascendsever more slowly and ever more powerfully from the sphere of the Moon [1, highest tone] towards the sphere of Saturn [7, lowest tone].
“At each step they receive a response, as their chant is echoed by a longer and progressively more powerful sound that is understood to be coming down to them from the seventh sphere [7].
not sure why he specifies 7th here
“We may assume that in actual practice, the brethren around them would be giving voice to this echo by chanting the omegas at a low pitch, and the volume of singing would get louder as the invocation progressed.”
sounds like crappy music. Good music would finally arrive at the octave, 8; not dangling unresolved on note 7 of the scale. consdier:
If sung in increasing pitch as if moving from Sat to Moon:
Sing the self-control agencyle Sing the major scale from high note to low note:
That song makes sense: start with the stationary 26,000-year fixed stars octave high pitch: Lah! Now sing the 7 scale notes from high to low, terminating with the root, matching the fixed stars octave pitch.
Next, suppose you do not start with the octave pitch, but start by singing the 7th note:
Fkk, how can you even START to sing the scale if you do not start by singing the Octave of the root! You would have to somehow START on the unmusical, un-framed, 7th note of the octave.
This un-musical musical proposition sounds impossible to sing!
Musical nonsense from Hanegraaff.
You would have to start by singing a wretched, worst-case, dissonant, 7th note of the scale, out of the blue, with no statement of the root pitch (ie at the octave), first.
It’s as impossible as a “cosmos” with no fixed stars! Painful to listen to! Sing with me, NOT starting up high at the octave (just IMAGINE that base pitch silently): now, the first sound out of your mouth is horrible 7th note of scale!
very hard to hit that note! out of the blue w/ no base-pitch established first! Dissonant AF! very difficult to sing!
But, if you simply start high w/ the octave (= sphere of the fixed stars), it is EASY to sing the scale, musically, easily, pleasant sound.
Why start w/ slowest planet? Why not start w/ fixed stars which is even slower than the slowest planet, per well established in 130 B C by Hipparchus, now in the Hermetic era of 150 AD, there has been three hundred years of ancient science having known about the precession of the equinoxes. Everyone knew by 150 AD that the sphere of the fixed stars rotates in 26,000 years, compared to Saturn in 29 years.
I do not trust Hanegraaff’s model of music here. His proposition sounds dissonant, is very difficult to sing, and conflicts with well established ancient cosmology. if you sing these 7 scale notes starting somehow (good luck) with 7th note, it SCREAMS out “please for God sake start w/ the high octave instead!! for the love of God and musical harmony!”
Hanegraaff’s music is as ugly & dissonant as his stars-repressed broken cosmos failed model. I say, start singing the octave fixed stars, and …
[my logic has problem, rewrite the above]
Do [7; Sat]
Re [6; Jup]
Mi [5; Mars]
Fa [4; Sun]
So [3; Ven]
La [2; Mer]
Ti [1; Moo]
Do [0, Earth]
Sing from high note at top, to low root at bottom, but do not sing the octave, “earth” at the start:
Do [0, Earth] silent octave, start here silently singing the high octave
Ti [1; Moo] – good luck hitting this note, the 7th note of scale, as your 1st voiced note!
La [2; Mer]
So [3; Ven]
Fa [4; Sun]
Mi [5; Mars]
Re [6; Jup]
Do [7; Sat] ROOT
Musically incoherent. They sing from which note to which note?
reverse it b/c moon is fast, staurn slow:
this means you start with which pitch?
“Having finally arrived at the level of Saturn, the voices coming “from below” would join those “above,” as all participants would now be chanting the same vowel ō on the same pitch.114 From a spatial point of view, this upward movement through the spheres can be pictured visually as in Table 9.3.”
p. 295: “the altered state was further enhanced by inhalation of kuphi incense.117
“In the pregnant silence that follows the invocation, Hermes now prays directly to the ultimate unbegotten Source [10] itself, asking it to send down its power [10] (dunamis) that will grant wisdom (sophia) [9?], so that he and Tat will be able to share their experience of the Ogdoad [8] and the Ennead [9].118
“Having walked the path of reverence (eusebeia), he says, they have now reached the hebdomad [7], the seventh sphere of Saturn [7].119
Error! Nonsense use of the word ‘hypercosmic’ to mean the zillion-stars level of sphere 8: So, the stars are “hypercosmic”?
Insane NONSENSE!
Citation needed! But there isn’t any, I have the books, and the videos repeat the same self-contradictory, inconsistent, prevaricating NONSENSE!
Which hermetic text says that sphere 8 is “hypercosmic”? How coudl a text descrcribe the million fixed stars as being “outisde” the cosmos, in 150 AD, given that 130 B C discovered precession of the equinoxes and that’s how very very well established the idea that the fixed stars (sphere 8) are the sphere above Saturn (sphere 7).
EVERYONE knew for HUNDREDS of years, that fixed stars define sphere 8, OF, not “ABOVE” the cosmos!! This is the simplest of givens, ask every schoolboy from 130 B C to 150 AD: every one answers, are you stupid? The cosmos up in the sky is zillion stars, at sphere 8, with 5 planet spheres that are closer. That thing up there, the stars, zillion stars, that thing is the cosmos, that is sphere 8. Spere 8 is the cosmos.
Where the hell does Hanegraaff and the other confused heremetic scaholrs pick up this insane notion of saying “the cosmos has 7 spheres”. CITATION NEEDED!
WHAT HERMETIC TEXT SAYS “THE COSMOS HAS 7 SPHERES NOT 8”??????
WHAT HERMETIC TEXT SAYS THAT SPHERE 8, CONTAINING FIXED STARS AND DEFINED BY THE FIXED STARS, IS SOMEHOW “OUTSIDE THE COSMOS”?!
Answer: NONE! WHAT THE FKKING HELL, SCHOLARS? INSANITY! This doesn’t make any sense AT ALL!
Yes, we can write “the 7 planetary spheres of the cosmos”, but that does NOT mean that sphere 8 (containing fixed stars) is is somehow, nonsensically, “outside the cosmos”.
The Hermetic scholars’ defense: “In every other paragraph, we say sphere 8 = fate-soaked fixed stars — against what we say in the alternating paragraphs, that the cosmos has 7 spheres, and sphere 8 is outside the cosmos.”
Apparently, words have no meaning, if you are a scholar of Hermetism.
STRUCTURE OF EBOOK: THE FOOTNOTES WERE CONVERTED TO END-OF-CHAPTER ENDNOTES. eg: ebook page 293 cites footnote 114, and 114 is placed on page 307. In print book, p 294 cites 114, and 114 is at bottom of p 294.
copied from ebook, with my sphere-# tracker added: “114 While Mahé assumes that the omegas represent the Ogdoad [8], my interpretation confirms Bull’s argument (Bull, Tradition, 334–353, reached by an entirely different route) that they refer to Saturn [7] (to which Bull adds that they also represent the Decans [10?]: ibid., 337–339). Whether the fixed stars [8] should be included [with Saturn [7]] or should rather be associated with the Ogdoad [8] remains an open question for me.”
Not an open question for any schoolboy from 130 B C to 150 AD. It is the simplest of givens: fixed stars define sphere 8, the cosmos boundary.
Simply look up in the sky, which apparently Hanegraaff & Hermetic scholars has never done: that thing you see, the array of zillion lights, is fixed stars; aka, THE COSMOS, sphere 8.
There is nothing even slightly “open question” about this, and there is no Hermetic text that says otherwise unless you bring so much abstracted confusion that when ancients write “the 7 spheres of the cosmos” you wrongly think — while staring down at your shoes — “That means that sphere 8, my precious Ogdoad, is outside the cosmos.”
If looking at the sky has any meaning at all, “the cosmos” consists of the 7 planetary spheres AND fixed stars (sphere 8, Ogdoad). Or words don’t mean anything. No Hermetic text contradicts this.
Writing “hypercosmic Ogdoad” is lunatic asylum.
Hanegraaff might as well say “The stars up in the night sky are outside the cosmos.” WHAT?!
The stars up in the night sky are outside the cosmos.
Wouter Hanegraaff, high on his non-drug entheogens
p 295 con’t: THE INSANITY CONTINUES:
“, they have now reached the hebdomad [7], the seventh sphere of Saturn [7].119
“Therefore[sic] their consciousness is still within the cosmic[sic] {7}[8] domain, but they are ready to move beyond[sic] it.
“By singing their hymn of praise, the Hermetic practitioners have been sending up “a reflection [or imprint, tupos] of the fullness [plēroma].”120
Insanity: “The 7 Cosmic Spheres” – Citation Needed! “The 7 Planetary Spheres of the Cosmos” Would Make Sense
the plenitude of the seven cosmic spheres
“I assume that this formulation refers to the vowel sequence which, as we have seen, represents the plenitude of the seven cosmic spheres[sic] .121
CITATION NEEDED! What Hermetic text says that there are seven, not eight, cosmic spheres?
Answer: None! No text says that nonsense!
A Hermetic text might say “the 7 planetary spheres of the cosmos“, which is valid, but that in no way means the utterly nonsensical claim that somehow the sphere of the fixed stars [8, Ogdoad] is “outside the cosmos”, or that the cosmos consists ONLY of the 7 planetary spheres.
As plain as night sky zillion stars, the cosmos PLAINLY consists of EIGHT spheres.
Scholars are lost in their abstractions, need grounding in plain reality and sense.
Go for a walk, look at the sky.
Tell me sphere 8 is “outside the cosmos”, but where then do you put the stars, ARE YOU SAYING THE STARS ARE OUTSIDE THE COSMOS?!
YES: Coming up, notorious section heading “Beyond the stars”, meaning, beyond the stars, of which there are 5, plus sun & moon.
He should head the section, “BEYOND THE STARS OF THE COSMOS, WHICH ARE 7”.
BEYOND THE STARS OF THE COSMOS, OF WHICH THERE ARE SEVEN
🤯🤦♂️🤷♂️😵💫💥🌌🪨🪨🪨
WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON, Hanegraaff, PLANET “NON-DRUG ENTHEOGENS”
p 295 con’t:
“The human voices from down below have the effect of carrying pneumatic [9] energy from the cosmos {7}[8] upwards towards the hypercosmic {8, 9, 10}[9, 10] levels.
“In order for Tat to actually perceive the vision (theōria) that will show him the image (eikōn) of the truth, the Source [10] must respond to the invocation by sending down its own luminous spirit (pneuma) [9]. As this downward stream of divine pneumatic [9] energy meets the upward stream of “eloquent pneuma, [9]” the latter will be ignited as by a spark of fire, thereby illuminating the practitioners’ nous [9] and give them divine gnōsis [9].122
put “divine gnosis” at eternalism sphere 8, or in “transcend eternalism” sphere 9??
Lately I think basic eternalism is unsufficient to model enlightenment (Psilocybin transformation, completion of initiation of Late Antiquity psychospiritual development), and in some key major sense mental model transformation MUST include some type of “transcend eternalism” or isn’t worth the Late Antiquity designation of “Gnosis” as used in 150 AD.
We have to decide whether to use Classical Antiquity Mystery Religions and symposia as the model, and ancient Greek myth; or, use Late Antiquity as the model. It is curticial crucial to have both models — and differentiate them. That’s the only adequate model; that is a hard requirement, so, that amounts to favoring Late Antiquity as the Reference for myth & astral ascent mysticism — NOT earlier, Classical Antiquity.
The Egodeath Theory’s Model of Astral Ascent Mysticism (mapped to Psilocybin mental model transformation) Must Model Late Antiquity, not Classical Antiquity, as the Reference Standard to Model & Map To
295 cont’
“In other words, the noetic [9] potential of the pneuma [9] carried upward by chanting must be activated by the superior divine pneuma[9-10], the energetic power (dunamis)[10] that responds from above.
“Exactly this is what Hermes must have meant at the outset, when he invited Tat to pray to “the Father [10] of All … that he may grant his pneuma[9-10] so that I may speak.”123
“The vowel song has brought spiritual [9] father and son together in a hypnotic altered state of intimate energetic rapport.
“This condition enables Hermes to receive power [10-9] “from the Source [10] that wells up in [him]” so that he can pass it on to Tat, whose nous [9] will thereby be opened to the vision of truth.124
“As Hermes concludes his prayer, he makes sure to give all credit for what is about to happen to the Unbegotten Source[10] from which all things have come.
AGGHJ bad writing, DO NOT USE THE WORD “IT”. NAME THE THING DIRECTLY! AMBIG! DON’T MAKE ME SORT OUT YOUR MESS AND GUESS WHAT YOUR POINTER-TO-POINTER INDIRECTLY REFERS TO
“IT …. IT …. IT…” what are you referring to???
“Ultimately [10], it [ie Source? 10] is the one sovereign active force[10] on which all else [0-9] depends entirely, as it [ie Source? 10] has brought forth both the Self-Begotten (the Ennead [9]) and the Begotten (the Ogdoad [8]), as well as everything else that has” end of p 295. 296: “been generated and filled with soul [8].125
“This sovereign Source [10], also known as the One [10], is now asked to accept these “verbal offerings” (logikē thusia) that the practitioners have sent up with all their heart [7?], all their soul [8], and all their power [9?].
“In response, may he grant them immortal wisdom.126
Cosmic-size GROAN, here it comes:
Beyond the Stars*
*of which there are 5, or as many as 7, if you count Sun & moon.
Fixed stars? Whether the fixed stars should be included with Saturn (sphere 7) or should rather be associated with the Ogdoad (sphere 8) remains an open question for me.
So we’ll just look at the sky, count the stars, and say it’s 5.“
Non-drug entheogenic practices in the wide sense did a job on me Now I am a real sickie Guess I’ll have to break the news That I got no mind to lose All the girls are in love with me I’m a teenage lobotomy
Fate-soaked stars are after me D.D.T. keeps me happy Now I guess I’ll have to tell ’em That I got no cerebellum Gonna get my Ph.D in History of Hermetic Philosophy I’m a teenage lobotomy
— Ramones Cybermonk 1977/2025
p. 296:
“As Hermes has completed his prayer, he turns towards Tat with the words “my child, let us embrace”
“From this moment on, we will be witnessing an extraordinary ecstatic experience: all of a sudden, Tat’s consciousness is opened up to the hypercosmic {8, 9, 10}[9, 10] realms”
“Hermes’ and Tat’s consciousness has been lifted high up into the seventh cosmic sphere [7], and in this elevated condition they now feel the pneumatic [9] stream of noetic [9] Light energies from the Ennead [9] coming down to them and igniting their own noetic [9] capacity.131
“any reconstruction must” end of p 296; p 297: “remain speculative to some extent.133
“In what follows I will provide a reading that I find most plausible [given a cosmos model lacking fate-soaked fixed stars], while explaining my choices in the footnotes.”
“Hermes seems to be confirming that the hypercosmic {8, 9, 10}[9, 10] “depths” which have opened up to Tat’s consciousness“
“I am nous [9]” … Hermes is … revealing his true identity to his pupil, and this is obviously an event of considerable gravity.
“… Tat … is being addressed directly by Hermes’ immortal noetic [9] essence.
“The nous [9] is speaking through his teacher’s mouth.
“… Hermes tells his pupil what he himself is perceiving: he sees another Nous [9-10], the universal one that moves the soul [8-9].137
“As the consciousness of both participants is now completely in the Ogdoad [8], they are communicating directly”
p. 300:
““from nous to nous” about their shared vision of the universal Nous [9-10], the boundless Light of the Ennead [9] that is their own divine essence.
“… sees the nous [9-10] (“him [10] who moves me”) in or because of his present altered state (described here by a Coptic term that ranges from “ecstasy” to “sleep” or “forgetfulness”)?138
“Or has that power [10] moved him from his prior state of “a pure forgetfulness” to one of true wakefulness?139
“… this ecstatic “death-state” of noetic [9] illumination allows the speaker to forget his embodied [7] state of clouded consciousness.
“… You [10] give me power… I see myself! I want to speak – butfear holds me back.
“I have found the origin of the Power [10] above all powers, who has no beginning.
“I see a fountain bubbling with life!140″
{fountain in cave} = uncontrollable source of control-thoughts
“The pneumatic power or energy [9] that sustains the vision comes from the nous [9], and is transmitted through Hermes to his pupil.
“It [pneumatic power] allows Tat to perceive his own noetic [9] essence of universal Life and Light.
“The experience is obviously awe-inspiring, a true occasion of fear and trembling: not only does Tat gain true gnōsis, self-knowledge, by seeing in this instance who and what he really is – but moreover, he even glimpses the mysterious origin (archē) of All That Is, the unbegotten One beyond the Ennead, the ultimate generative Source (pēgē) itself. “
mental model transformation of the personal control system / egoic personal control system. 2-level, dependent control revealed, not monolithic, autonomous control. Subject to a higher control power: the uncontrollable source of control-thoughts.
“Indeed he has found the origin of the Power above all powers.
“… I have seen,” he breathes in utter amazement, “it is impossible to express this in words…!”142
“It is at this point that the emphasis begins to move from noetic [9] vision-beyond-vision to noetic sound-beyond-sound, for the nous that keeps speaking through Hermes now calls his attention to what he is hearing in the”
p. 301: “Ogdoad [8], silent hymns that are being sung all around them by the souls [8] and by the angels up above [9]:
“[that’s right] my child, for the entire Ogdoad [8] and the souls [8] that are in it and the angels [9] are singing their hymns in silence.
“Yet I, nous [9], understand them [noeīn].”143
“All this makes perfect sense in terms of the basic Hermetic perspective on nous [9] and logos [10?], as explained in a particularly koan-like Hermetic Definition:
“Nothing is incomprehensible for nous [9], nothing is inexpressible for logos [9-10].
“… nous [9] conceives logos [9-10] in silence, only speech that comes from silence and nous [9] is salvation [9].”
Sphere 8 = purification of the soul into pure Eternalism. Sphere 9 = salvation of the spirit from Eternalism into transcend eternalism.
“… the human being is mortal through his body [7] but immortal [8-9] through logos [9].144
“So there is such a thing as powerful noetically [9] inspired speech (logos), but it can only be understood in immediate noetic perception.
“It comes from the silent Source [10] through mediation of the nous [9].
“Just as the noetic [9] vision cannot be seen with bodily [7-8] eyesight, noetic [9] speech cannot be heard by the bodily ears [7-8].
“Therefore noetic [9] singing can surely not be heard by the bodily ears [7-8] either.
“Noetic realities can only be perceived noetically”
“Tat is singing a hymn … not be addressed to the human teacher anymore but to the universal nous [9] who has been speaking through Hermes’ mouth ever since he first appeared in NH VI6 58, 4.
“… Along with all the other souls [8] in the Ogdoad [8], Tat’s soul [8] is singing a noetic [9] hymn to the Ennead [9].
“… their souls [8] are soaring high in a deep state of meditative”
p. 302:
“the nous [9] itself is beyond language and can only be experienced in direct noetic perception.
“As Tat was singing his silent hymn to the Ennead [9], his own nous [9] was joined to the universal Nous [9] and his soul [8] was both enveloped by and filled with what Iamblichus would have called emphutos gnōsis.149″
“gratitude to the divine [10] in a short prayer to the Source [10] of Light and Life:
“No creature will be deprived of your Life, for you are the Lord of the inhabitants everywhere.
“Your providence keeps watch over us.
“I call [upon] you: Father Aio-n [10] of Aio-ns [9] Great Divine [10] Spirit [10-9] who sends spiritual [9] rain down on all.150
“fears losing … enlightenment and asks for help: “O Trismegistus… do not let my soul [8] be deprived” p 303: “of the vision, divine Being!
“Everything is possible for you as Master [10] [or Scribe] of the whole universe.”152
“… Hermes the human teacher is still just a vessel for the ultimate Enneadic [9] divinity, the master [10] of the universe.
“Therefore it is also the Nous [9] who responds to Tat’s plea, speaking through Hermes’ mouth:
“Return to the death-state, my child,
“Tat is told to return to the Enneadic [9] state of perfect noetic [9] consciousness that allowed him to join in the silent hymns of angels [9] and souls [8]: the blessed condition in which souls [8; sometimes “higher soul” = 9] that have attained salvation [9] will find themselves after the dissolution of the body [7 (8)].154
Notation: 7 (8): mainly 7, sometimes 8 a little
“… Tat directs his consciousness back to the Ennead [9] and joins again in the noetic [9] singing of souls [8] and angels [9].
“… Tat’s silent communion with the universal Nous [9-10]”
“… I see the Ogdoad [8] and the souls [8] that are in it and the angels [9] singing hymns to the Ennead [9] and its powers.
“And I see the one who is endowed with all the powers [10] and creates in the spirit [or: creates spirits [9]].155
“Tat’s plea “not to be deprived of the vision” now seems to have been answered, for this exclamation and the conversation that follows suggest that both his noetic [9] vision and his noetic hearing have somehow become permanent.“
The huge struggle and achievement in the series of Psilocybin sessions 1-7 is the challenge to try to retain the vision of eternalism; a danger is doing crazy notable things to try to disrupt fallback to egoic thinking and force a retaining of the higher way of thinking.
“… Having found the peace he had always been longing for,”
the innate hunger to learn the paired two mental models: possibilism + eternalism
p. 305:
“his words may “get inscribed in this imperishable book.”157
“… Tat’s words will be “engraved” or “imprinted” in his internal noetic [9] world exactly as happens at the end of CH I and CH XIII.159
“In Chapter 10 I will return to these recurring references to the “engraving” or “imprinting” of prayers, hymns and visions so as to keep them from perishing.
“… a prayer addressed to the silent Generative Source [10] of all that is:
“… to the end of the universe and the beginning of all beginnings, the immortal [9] treasure that all humans seek, the generative Source [10] of Light and Truth, the sower of Logos [9-10] and Source of Life eternal.160
“Not even a mystery discourse [logos] can ever speak of you, Lord. Therefore my nous [9] wants to sing hymns to you every day.
“I am the instrument of your Spirit [pneuma], the nous is your plectrum, your Will uses me to make music.
“I see myself. “
Perceive and recognize your two ways of thinking; metaperception. Perceive the snake engine after lifting lid to look under hood. See revealed source of control power; the hidden, uncontrollable source of control-thoughts.
“I have received power from you, for your love has made us alive.161
“the Nous [9] itself touches the strings of Tat’s heart, the sound will be heard in the silence of the unfathomable One.
“Tat is now capable of seeing the noetic Light by immediate perception, emphutos gnōsis, he knows that he is seeing his own immortal [9] essence.
“The nous [9] receives its power from the one and only Source [10], the pēgē [10], whose love has restored him to the true Life as it gave him the gift of wisdom [9].163
p. 306:
“noetic [9] hymns “sung in silence” by the souls [8] and angels [9] in the Ogdoad [8] and Ennead [9]; on the contrary, we are dealing with actual vowels as in the first instance, linked to the seven cosmic spheres[sic, the 7 planetary spheres of the cosmos] and intoned audibly by the human voice.
“Secondly, it should not be understood as a new invocation, presumably to reverse the ascent and make Tat’s soul [8] descend again from Saturn [7] back to the Moon [1] and finally to earth [0]: if that were the case, we should expect the vowels to be sung in reverse order beginning with the fourteen omegas.
“Thirdly, this also explains the absence of nomina barbara.”
passwords for panic-guarded gates, control instability fixes
“Because Tat’s soul [8 (9)] has been restored finally and irreversibly to the true noetic [9] Life, no longer does his consciousness need to cross any fearsome boundary between the cosmic conditions called “life” (actually under the sway of death) and “death” (the true life of the soul [8]).166
Dead to possibilism-thinking; reconciled to heimarmene, purified. And also transcend heimarmene.
“Fourthly, no longer do the vowels sung from down below [8] receive a lengthier and more powerful echo from the superior noetic powers [9] up above; I suggest that the series of omegas and vowels are of equal length because Tat’s level of consciousness now equals that of the noetic [9] powers.
“…You exist with the Pneuma [9].
“I hymn you with reverence.”167
“… the ceremony ends as it should: in a spirit of eusebeia, the supreme Hermetic virtue.”
Supreme virtue per the Egodeath theory: harmonious wedding of adjusted possibilism-thinking + adjusted eternalism-thinking coupled as a 2-model system.
footnote (endnote) 30, page 307: desdaimonia, terror of the divine:
“My translation of δεισιδαίμων ὡς ἀκούεις is a matter of interpretation (see discussion in Cop[enhaver?], 171).
“On the fascinating term δεισιδαίμονία, see Hanegraaff, Esotericism and the Academy, 159–164.
“… This indication of fear on Hermes’ part in a discussion about “death” would seem reminiscent of a strange isolated statement in HD VI 3: “Get a hold of yourself, Trismegistus!” … the intended speaker could be … the Nous [9].”
experience of the threat of catastrophic loss of control
“its [the writing’s] purpose must have been to show practitioners not just what they should think or do, but also what they could expect to experience if they got it all right.
“As suggested above, the genre of spiritual Hermetica is best defined in terms of inspirational narratives about the ideal teacher, the ideal student, the ideal discussion, the ideal message, the ideal proceedings, and the ideal rewards.8
“But what then must be done after the ideal devotee has finally reached the goal, having beheld the supreme vision of the Ogdoad [8; the soul is purified into eternalism/ Heimarmene] and the Ennead [9; the spirit transcends eternalism/ Heimarmene], the ultimate experience of perfect gnōsis? … he should write it all down.”
Page Numbering in Ebook Is Only Off by 1
Page numbering check: in ebook, “page 293” contains footnote 114: “Having finally arrived at the level of Saturn, the voices coming “from below” would join those “above,” as all participants would now be chanting the same vowel ō on the same pitch.114”
But in the hardcover first printing, that’s on page 294, not 293.
Glad it is only off-by-one.
This means no great need to specify whether ebook page # or print page #.
2025 New Definition per Late Antiquity: You Are {immortal} if You Integrate eternalism-thinking + possibilism-thinking
A couple years ago, or a year ago, I would have said that believing in eternalism or stand on right foot = immortal. That might hold for Classical Antiquity b/c I was thinking envisioning what Classical Antiquity meant by “you are among the immortals walking now”. But, from pov of Late Antiquity, “immortal” must factor in also, “integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking”.
Raises the bar. Now, to be counted among the immortals, I require that you not only know basic eternalism-thinking, but, you must venerate and value and comprehend idea of INTEGRATING — not just brute summing together like i thought 1 year ago! —
a year ago I said: eternalism-thinking, including qualified possibilism-thinking.
Better framing I now developed:
integrated combination of eternalism-thinking + possibilism-thinking, each of them qualified to fit with the other harmoniously as complementary models that each contribute something but each lack something. A wedding marriage dyad, yoked and joined to complete each other.
not really privileging either one as if isolated; privilege THE PAIRING OF BOTH –
You do NOT end up w/ no-free-will; or “eternalism”.
Imagine conventional “compatibilism” that combines AS TWO DIFFERENT, COMPLEMENTARY MODELS, “freewill” and “determinism”. But those are ordinary-state based concepts. That notion of determinism is drenched in possibilism-thinking w/ open future, quite different than eternalism.
The concepts of possibilism vs eternalism are properly based in the altered state. Unlike “freewill”, “determinism”, and “compatibilism”, which are limited to armchair ordinary state, not relevant. Not transformative. Proof: Harris books fail to connect with each other:
book saying no-free-will
book saying be rational
book saying spir’y incl psychedelics
Fails to realize that being rational, experiencing no-free-will, & psychedelics are all combined.
“Free Will” by Rush Is Pneumadelic (Jan. 1980)
Acid lyrics are limited to psychedelic, lower soul, merely eternalism. like Classical Antiquity.
New lyrics like Free Will by Rush, is a post-psychedelics, post-soul, ie a spirit-based revealation. Free Will is a pneumadelic song.
You end up with a INTEGRATED COMBINATION of eternalism + possibilism thinking/models. mental models.
Ozzy: SATO Talks of Finding a Way of Thinking, Suggests Pneumadelic (Nov. 1981)
Nilsson and acid Metal merely delivers soul eternalism and halts there. Fails to integrate the psychedelic revelation of no-free-will.
Now I find peace of mind, finally found a way of thinking; — S.A.T.O. 1981
Ride Light: july 1984
Maiden Somewhere in Time (Sep. 1986)
the path for you is decided: that’s eternalism; that’s not transcendence of eternalism. verdict: psychedelic, not pneumadelic
Hanegraaff Ebook Find-Fest: Spirit, Ogdoad, Heimarmene, Nous
$200 book wasn’t enough, so got ebook version too: now I am REALLY equipped to prove that despite Hanegraaff’s garbled confusion where he foundationally errs in writing:
“the Ogdoad above the heimarmene” – p. 258, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022
His book when straightened out asserts/ associates soul = sphere 8, spirit = sphere 9.
spirit = sphere 9 = above heimarmene = transcend Fate/ Heimarmene/ Eternalism. [should I cap’z eternalism b/c in this context the scholars cap’ize Fate and Heimarmene]
soul = psyche = ironic: “psychedelic” means “soul” revealning but “soul” is bad and limited to just merely rising to level of imprisonment in Fate/ Heimarmene / Eternalism per acid songs like Jump into the Fire by Harry Nilsson or the tragedy of bass player Cliff Burton of Metallica discovering eternalism prison in album Ride the Lightning. https://www.google.com/search?q=cliff+burton+of+metallica The tragedy …
naive possibilism-thinking then eternalism then qualified possibilism-thinking.
sin, death, soul, spirit, Christ, Jesus, king Jesus fastened to cross, risen Christ redeemer from “outer space” (Richard Carrier book cover / title)
Ariadne maiden abandoned by Theseus upon escape labyrinth = naive possibilism-thinking = Sol prior to initiation/capture = sphere 0-7
Dionysus = eternalism = Mithras = sphere 8
Ariadne post-maiden, married = transcend eternalism = sphere 9-10; wedding of not Dionysus alone, but, Dionsus AS wedded HUSBAND and Ariadne AS wedded WIFE.
2 Cheers for Possibilism, 2 Cheers for Eternalism; 3 Cheers for Possibilism Integrated with Eternalism
are you crying about no-free-will ? and about the dead king?
instead, celebrate wedding of the two objectionable ways of thinking, each mental model has unsatifactory flaws:
Possibilism sucks because unstable and unreal.
Eternalism sucks because no-free-will; imprisoned, enslaved, {snake frozen in rock}.
Mature “deal w/ it best u can” solution: combine half-wonderful possibilism-thinking with half-wonderful eternalism
Two cheers for possibilism-thinking
Two cheers for eternalism-thinking
Three cheers for wedding possibilism-thinking + eternalism-thinking
Like guitar amp usage/setup theory, where I triangulate the 3 flawed unsatisfactory options:
if put combo amp far away, can’t access its controls.
if put combo amp nearby, makes nuisance noise.
Isolation hood is difficult & awkward.
The compromise solution: Rotate among the 3 approaches.
The Egodeath Theory Invented the New Class of Pharmacology: Pneumadelics, Above Mere Psychedelics
Given that mythic-realm Amanita is far better than any mere psychedelic, I dub Mythic Amanita is the symbol of Pneumadelic drugs.
Psychedelics = mere acid rock revelation of tragic sad trajedy in Queen song Boh Rap,
List of Tragic Psychedelic Revelation Songs
Heaven Can Wait – Iron Maiden “the path for you is decided”
Ozzy: Little Dolls; Believer (“destiny planned out, speculation of the wise”); S.A.T.O.; Diary of a Madman
Jump into the Fire – Harry Nilsson (“but you can never be free””
Down in the depths of my fiery home The summons bell will chime [compare For Whom the Bell Tolls on Ride the Lightning] Tempting you and all the Earth to join our sinful kind There is a job to be done, and I’m the one You people make me do it Now it is time for your fate and I won’t hesitate To pull you down into this pit
Crop by Michael Hoffman
So come on Jump in the fire So come on Jump in the fire
With hell in my eyes and with death in my veins, the end is closing in Feeding on the minds of man, and from their souls within My disciples all shout to search you out, they always shall obey Follow me now, my child, not the meek or the mild, but do just as I say
Jump by your will or be taken by force, I’ll get you either way Trying to keep the hellfire lit, I am stalking you as prey
[My 2007 main article: “The hunter [of stag w/ branching antlers] Actaeon saw the goddess Artemis bathing naked, so she turned him into an animal [stag with branching antlers], and his own hunting dogs tore him to pieces.” https://www.google.com/search?q=Actaeon+hunt+stag+Artemis]
Living your life as me, I am you, you see there is part of me in everyone So reach down, grab my hand, walk with me through the land Come home where you belong
[compare Maiden “Heaven Can Wait” song in 1986, 3 years later: Take my hand, I’ll take you to the other side To see the truth: the path for you is decided“]
“Thank you for choosing this title. Your pre-order title will be available upon release. Thank you for choosing Led Zeppelin’s Led Zeppelin IV: 33 1/3. Your audio book will be available for download on April 29, 2025.“
Acid Tragedy: Unfortunately, Psychedelic Means Merely Psyche not Spirit Revealing, ie Psychedelics are not Pneumadelics [8:56 am Apr 19 2025] Only Exposes the Enslavement Imprisonment in Block-universe eternalism
The Principle of Paradigm Integrity and Closed Theory Conceptual Vocabulary
April 18, 2025 voice recording before 6409.wav: good recording good ideas about:
Do not import ordinary state based armchair external philosophy from outside Egodeath theory , into Egodeath theory,
Do not try to evaluate Egodeath theory from POV basis of thinking that’s outside Egodeath theory.
Do not take the ordinary state based free will vs. determinism debate terms like “compatibilism”.
The sacred marriage of the two mental models — qualified possibilism + qualified eternalism — is NOT same as the armchair (the ordinary state of consciousness dominated) Philosophy department concepts, ordinary-state based:
“compatibilism”
“free will”
“determinism”
“predestination”
compatibilism cpm
Concepts inside the Egodeath theory and concepts outside the Egodeath theory are related and comparable, but not the same meaning-network.
Concepts within the Egodeath theory are COMPARABLE to concepts from outside the Egodeath theory, but different.
Diagram contributed by the Egodeath community, 2006
“Religion and myth are about dissociative-state experience, frozen-time determinism, self-control cybernetics, and metaphorical description of these.” – Michael Hoffman, 2007 main article
meaning-network mn
ordinary-state based osb
, or fake psychedelics Philosophy Chris Letheby’s false dilemma Epistemology debate positions “only matter exists” (Science Materliasm Naturalism) vs “only mind exists (Mysticism;
All Concepts from Outside the Egodeath Theory Are Corrupt, Impure, Polluted, and Spoken with Unclean Lips
Best Compromise: Combine Qualified Possibilism with Qualified Eternalism
Michael Hoffman 7:45 am Apr. 19, 2025
An *analogy* is in terms of no-free-will — but eternalism is NOT the same idea as no-free-will.
qualified eternalism qe
qualified possibilism qp
In theory of guitar amp hookup and nuisance noise management, I found that there were 3 architecture options, and each option has a fatal flaw, so the closest to a solution was to alternate among the 3 configurations: what is the saying like “fast, good, reliable; pick any two”?
Affirm Possibilism and reject Eternalism: Result: Be unstable and in contradiction with underlying reality.
Affirm Eternalism and reject Possibilism: Result: Be stable but irrelevant to lived experience and practical control.
Crop by Michael Hoffman, Apr. 2022. Ariadne represents aspects of possibilism-thinking, including naive possibilism-thinking, qualified possibilism-thinking; naive freewill thinking; transcending eternalism; spirit reaching level of precession of the equinoxes above the sphere of the fixed stars outside the Fate-ruled cosmos. April 19, 2025, 7:37 am Michael Hoffman
April 19, 2025, 7:37 am Michael Hoffman
Ariadne represents aspects of possibilism-thinking, including
Pre and Trans per Pre/Trans fallacy; pre-enlightenment thinking; post-enlightenment thinking; thinking before the Psilocybin revelation of eternalism; and child-mode thinking (egoic personal control system; monolithic, autonomous control steering in a virtual-only branching world) integrated after the Psilocybin revelation of eternalism.
The “Regress of ‘Outside the Cosmos'” Diagrammatic Problem
April 19, 2025, 7:37 am Michael Hoffman
Transcending eternalism; the spirit only; NOT the soul or body, reaching cosmos sphere 9 (Prime Mover sphere; precession of the equinoxes) above the sphere of the fixed stars, outside the Fate-ruled cosmos.
The adding of multiple spheres 9 and 10 higher than fixed stars makes it problematic to say at whch sphere is “outside the cosmos” –
is sphere 9 (watery) inside or outside the cosmos?
is sphere 10 (as prime mover sphere) inside or outside the cosmos?
Is God and the elect, shown outside some other spheres, inside or outside the cosmos?
One cosmos diagram shows a sphere labeled as “here dwells God and all the Elect” — but there is area in diagram outside of that!
The “regress of outside the cosmos” diagrammatic problem.
Fake Author “Andrew P. Whittaker” Doesn’t Exist
If these are AI-generated books, the publisher and booksellers need to say so.
Red flags:
No Author page at Amazon.
Web search reveals nothing but a list of 7 books.
Published 7 Books in 6 Months, 2 More in the Next 2 Months
Odd Titles Random Generated
The childrens’ book is uses AI generated art – nice purple mushrooms.
At Amazon, the Timeless Physics book doesn’t bring up the many previous books on this topic.
Publisher : Independently published (February 23, 2025)
AI art on cover.
No mention of author on cover, just a name.
Compare any other book about timeless Physics. Shows author & their history.
Fake Book: The Timeless Universe: Rewriting Physics Without Time (“Whittaker”, 2025 along with 7 other assorted books in 6 months)
I’m looking forward to the next 5 books from this author coming out in the next 5 weeks. Hope they are as good as the previous 5 books by this author written in the last 5 weeks.
“What if time does not exist as a fundamental property of the universe?”
What if “Andrew P. Whittaker” doesn’t exist and this is fraud? If this is an AI-generated book, the publisher and booksellers need to say so.
“What if the equations of physics can be rewritten without time, relying solely on spatial energy interactions?
“The Timeless Universe: Rewriting Physics Without Time challenges one of the deepest assumptions in modern science: that time is a necessary component of physical laws.
“In this ground-breaking book, the author presents a radical rethinking of physics, arguing that time is merely a human interpretation of energy state transitions, rather than a fundamental dimension of reality.
“By removing time from general relativity, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and the standard model, the book explores a new paradigm where motion, causality, and entropy emerge from spatial relationships rather than temporal progression.
“Through rigorous theoretical exploration, supported by alternative mathematical formulations and references to cutting-edge physics, the book introduces a time-free theory of everything that unifies the fundamental forces in a purely spatial framework.
“From black holes to quantum entanglement, from cosmology to faster-than-light travel, this work explores how abandoning time-based thinking could reshape our understanding of the universe.”
/ end of fake blurb about fake book by non-existent author
The 8th Reveals/Implies the 9th; Block-universe eternalism implies transcendent possibilism
Michael Hoffman, ~1991, ink brush in blank art book
The title “the 8th reveals the 9th” means:
The 8th cosmos sphere (eternalism) immediately inherently raises and implies the idea of “outside the fate cosmos”; exactly like intuitively naturally BECAUSE I WAS JUST MESSING AROUND WITH INK PENS WHIMSICALLY, I DREW – ANGEL MUSE GUIDING MY HAND – A BLOCK, CONTAINING a SNAKE-SHAPED WORLDLINE, W/ HEAD PROTRUDING outside the block.
The idea of block-universe immed implies raises question of going outside it.
In Egodeath Yahoo Group, I posted the idea of “I am going on a space walk outside the block universe”.
Which is SAME IDEA as sphere 9 outside sphere 8; Plato’s cosmos implies going outside of cosmos, inherently implied.
I would NOT say wedding of freewill and determinism – b/c those terms are wrongly grounded based in only the ordinary state, raft of baggage meaning-network.
possibilism vs eternalism is comparable to “free will vs. determinism”, but no more than that.
Egodeath theory is comparable to advaita, or perennialism – or dread of ego dissoltion, or neuroplasticity, or J Campbell… BUT, those are failed meaning-networks, off-base.
The Egodeath theory is closely aligned with the medieval art genre of {mushroom-trees}. We ARE saying the same message (meaning-network), because both models are grounded in authentic loose cognition.
That’s why I was so glad to discover the transmission of a lifetime Nov 2020 from Eadwine, Eadwine’s leg-hanging mushroom tree image in the Great Canterbury Psalter.
I could decode Eadwine’s 1200 AD message because his message is same as mine, though using the branching motif more — BUT I DID write in terms of branching / non-branching in 2001 at start of Egodeath Yahoo Group re: field of the two competing brands of Physics mysticism: branching manyworlds vs non-branching Minkowski 4D spacetime block universe mysticism.
So, a true, actual, natural connection; both Cybermonk & Eadwine are saying the same message.
Plus Eadwine connects branching possibilism = control instability. non-branching eternalism = control stability. Not sure how much my 1997 & 2007 articles contain that equation.
or my thx 2013 “branching” confirmation in Power of Myth book. Eve Tempted by the Serpent + Douris kylix Jason Ladon Athena. tree of the Garden of the hesperides, guarded by the seeing-dragon, {shadow dragon monster} of the immortals.
wedded man = both brute eternalism-thinking & qualified eternalism-thinking transcendent eternalism-thinking
transcendent eternalism-thinking: very subtle meaning implied here: given that eternalism-thinking is ALAREDY transcendent , what does transcendent eternalism-thinking mean?
Ans: going beyond eternalism-thinking ; just like transcendent possibilism-thinking means, NOT naive possibilism-thinking , but the kind of possibilism-thinking that is INTEGRATED AND MUTUALLY QUALIFIED with eternalism-thinking.
The wedded productive marriage of qualified possibilism-thinking with qualified eternalism-thinking.
Do not give exclusive priority to the underlying reality: revealed substrate of eternalism reality; nor give excl pri to the experienced projected vritual realm. The two layers levels work together as a system. Honor the system.
The gaming computer involves integrated hardware level / layer and virtual level software.
Douglas Hofstadter
Victory Wedding: Productive Marriage of the Two Complementary Ways of Thinking, The Two Mental Models: Possibilism + Eternalism
🎉 🏆 harmonious victory wedding of the two complementary ways of thinking; two minds: andro gyne; hermes aphrodite; possibilism+eternalism.
The Church of Possibilism Married to Eternalism; bride of Christ.
Litwa 2025’s wording of chapter in book Hermetica I: The Eighth Reveals the Ninth (which I believe Litwa wrote is the ACTUAL WRITTEN title of the ancient writing).
Straight out of Late Antiquity, the era of affirming rebirth into the Ogdoad AND the Ennead: Embrace, affirm, and cherish cosmos sphere 8: fixed stars heimarmene. + Embrace, affirm, and cherish cosmos sphere 9: precession of the equinoxes; transcend eternalism:
Crop by Michael Hoffman, Apr. 2022.
do not demonize and represss eg as if a scholar were to delete the fixed stars from sphere 8 (unimaginable, hypotehtically).
Hanegraaff as Example of Insane Repression That Ken Wilber Warns Against: Removes the Repressed, Hated, Fate-Soaked Fixed Stars from Cosmos Sphere 8
When Egodeath theory worries about overemphasizing eternalism and underselling possibilism; do not go overboard like Wouter Hanegraaff and hate, destroy, delete, smash, purge, remove eternalism and repress and demonize and disparage heimarmene.
We must modify possibilism. We must modify eternalism. Do not delete possibilism. Do not delete eternalism.
As if, hypothetically, could you imagine a scholar so bent on repressing and destroying the earlier developmental structure, that we destructively shattered that entirely, like Darth Wouter blowing up planet Alderaan, but instead, removing and destroying all the zodiac, removing all of the fixed stars from the sky “because they are bad, because they are heimarmene”.
Darth Hanegraaff: Destroy and Eliminate the Zodiac & fixed stars, because It is Fate, Which Must be Got Rid of! Must purge fate-stars from sphere 8 (even though sphere 8 was specifically defined by the fixed stars)
Terrific Voice Recording 6400.wav: Positive Constructive Way in Which Abraham Sacr and Does Not Sacr Isaac; in What Way Eternalism Trumps Possibilism AND in What Way Possibilism Trumps Eternalism
todo: make episode of Egodeath Mystery Show incor’p this recording apr 17 2025.
Even though eternalism is the case, God creator shaped the ACTUAL REAL mental model in the shape of egoic personal control system; possibilism-thinking. possibilism-thinking is real!
Ego steering in branching possibilities as an experiential mental model is real; it really exists. As I always have said since like 1986.
We are looking for the optimal positive constructive productive framing that relates to religious myth revelation and the best model of mental model transformation; Psilocybin transformation.
Late Antiquity looked for the optimal framing:
true = eternalism = sphere 8 fixed stars. sense in which eternalism trumps possibilism.
true = possibilism-thinking (even if possibilism is illusion) = sphere 9 precession of the equinoxes.
Our work is to identify and see and perceive and comprehend (identify, dis-identify; transcend, embrace, and include) the sense in which possibilism-thinking trumps eternalism-reality hidden under the hood, revealed in the altered state yet even at the same time as eternalism is revealed, even then, possibilism-thinking AS a mental model and shape of our experiencing, remains.
We are in a video game sim that is a REAL SIMULATION.
pop sike song title: Genuine Imitation Life here’s the version off my Pop Sike Comp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeiUUmpKTCQ Genuine Imitation Life Jackie Lomax Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises Very Best Of (May 10, 1944 – September 16, 2013) – In Memory Of
Lomax died Sep. 2013 before my Thx 2013 “branching art” breakthrough in book The Power of Myth while studying lib caps.
🤯 shook me for weeks: artists knew about {branching}!! —
like as I wrote at the start of Egodeath Yahoo Group in 2001 re: the Physics field;
and as I subsequently later theorized in the field of Greek Myth in 2010 (I made the connection 9 years later) during 3.75-year hiatus walking the forest preserve’s branching paths while photographing mushrooms regularly.
Then in 2021 I discovered that the nice mushroom pictures in my 2007 main article were not sending a message of mushroom, but of non-branching (revealed by Psilocybin), associated with stable control.
How Possibilism Trumps Eternalism How Eternalism Trumps Possibilism
Our lives really do exist and really are shaped as ego power steerer steering in a branching possibilities tree.
That fact trumps the underlying Eternalism reality, in some specific optimal positive constructive sense.
Repudiate relying on child thinking, yet, also embrace and treasure and elevate and affirm and preserve child thinking; possibilism-thinking. Even while perceiving how it possibilism-thinking is virtual-only; illusion-based.
Don’t say life as ego steering in branching possibilities is “nothing but merely” virtual/illusion. That’s God’s creation, the shape of our lives and our existence as personal control agents.
Abraham and Isaac walked away into the future, blessed, purified, washed clean.
God provided the sacrifice.
God will provide the burnt offering sacrifice: ram caught in branching tree helplessly; king Jesus hung on a tree branch; receive the idea of God providing the full satisfactory washing-clean sacrifice repudiation – not repudiation of control, but repudiation of your way of thinking about possibilism-thinking.
Entirely burn the branching model reliance, but the religion based on Paul Thagard’s theory of theory revision.
How the old theory is related to the new theory, explanatory framework.
THE THEORY OF THEORY REVISION; mental model revision:
You are made to REVISE your model of child thinking; possibilism-thinking. Not “destroy” and “get rid of” possibilism-thinking.
You do not provide the sacrifice.
You do not hand over control as-is; God does the sacrificing to wash your thinking clean and rectified, rescued, redeemed, lifted out, set free, emancipated, saved.
f109: Caught in Hell-Mouth Furnace Net, Summoned to City Gate Entrance Past Ossuary Corpse, Stable Building Protected by Cloth Washed Clean
Crop by Michael Hoffman, April 4, 2023
f76: Chariot Wipeout
Crop by Michael Hoffman, June 10, 2023
1. email from wrmspirit about not requiring all the answers
You can remodel a room without making drastic changes. And [or,] you can renovate a room, making it completely different.
What feels best for you, not making drastic changes? or, making it completely different?
[I do not perceive the need to make Egodeath theory completely different; I am adjusting the framing details, a real need that I sense in trying to present the theory to my church, who wants to hear my theory presentation.]
The Egodeath Theory is your creation.
What feels best for you regarding qualified possibilism and qualified eternalism?
[Identify sense in which possibilism-thinking trumps eternalism-reality.
Identify sense in which ps eternalism-reality trumps possibilism-thinking.
Identify the reality in which possibilism-thinking really exists. Creatures’ lives as possibilism steering agents in possibility-branching tree really exist as the experienced world God created the virtual world, which trumps the underlying level layer basis stratum.
Do not debate “whether mind or matter exists”; instead debate the relation of the virtual possibilism world vs. underlying eternalism stratum.
Which one trumps which?
Our actual mental structures of experiential mental structures (Possibilism-thinking); or, the actual underlying revealed “hardware” stratum of Eternalism-reality?
Possibilism thinking open future EXPERIENCE/ mental model is real, even if possibilism branching steering is virtual illusion.
The gaming computer CPU hardware doesn’t make the virtual world above it “go away” or “not exist”.
IN WHAT SENSE DOES BRANCHING AND STEERING POWER OPEN FUTURE REALLY EXIST?
ON THE LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE, AND MENTAL STRUCTURES THAT REALLY EXIST.
See Douglas Hofstadter.]
wrmspirit con’t:
What feels best for you is most important.
What feels good for you will be expressed from a sense of comfort, a sense of feeling good about it and that will be perceived by the audience.
Can you let your church group be a part of the change?
The Egodeath theory is a living document. It makes people feel good to be included.
Why must you have something exact [finished & optimally framed & palatable & “balanced” valuation] when presenting?
[no “new theory” in science is all-appealing and entirely free from objectionable aspects]
And why can’t qualified eternalism become personal to each unique individual?
Dogma is for literal religion, not for the Egodeath Theory.
Sending good thoughts and best wishes. 🙏
— wrmspirit
ppl don’t have to grapple w/ “no-free-will”; they have to grapple w/ the combination of revealed eternalism reality substratum + experiential-level virtual (don’t say “illusion”, bad connot.) – the word ‘virtual’ is more positive connot than ‘illusion’.
“illusion” = awful nondual Advaita that everyone now hates.
not “you are illusion”.
say “you are virtual”.
Live by “advaita” branding, die by it. Egodeath theory rejects Advaita framing.
You are not illusion; you are virtual.
I’m ok including the term ‘virtual’ in the Egodeath theory as done since April 1987.
Virtual software reality trumps hardware reality that pokes through during God-level metaprogramming of the human biocomputer (John Lilly, The Scientist – dunking on Houot here).
Which one is real: the possibilism virtual world we live in, or the eternalism subsstratum that shoots it forth?
Eternalism is merely nothing but the strictly underlying reality. Above and superior to that is:
possibilism which is the lived experienced created well formed mental experienced reality, the world that we live in: steering possibility-branching. Now made stable by honoring and recognizing and perceiving the distination between L vs R foot; eternalism-thinking and also distinct, possibilism-thinking.
qualified eternalism-thinking maried to qualified possibilism-thinking
The Church of Possibilism Married to Eternalism; bride of Christ.
Crop by Michael Hoffman, Apr. 2022. Ariadne represents aspects of possibilism-thinking, including naive possibilism-thinking, qualified possibilism-thinking; naive freewill thinking; transcending eternalism; spirit reaching level of precession of the equinoxes above the sphere of the fixed stars outside the Fate-ruled cosmos. April 19, 2025, 7:37 am Michael Hoffman
Chariot contrast non-branching spear held in R arm by Dionysus vs. branch held in Ariadne’s L arm.
Mytheme decoding: {spear} = non-branching. Probably posted before. King killed by non-branching inserted in {right side vulnerability birth canal through which Eve was born from Adam Mithras stabs the bull, Paul’s thorn in side has no branches}.
MYTHEME DECODING: THE ABANDONMENT OF ARIADNE (BY THESEUS), MARRIED BY DIONYSUS
11 5 0
April 17, 2025 – Cybermonk
We abandon yet retain child thinking; reliance on possibilism-thinking; incorporation of possibilism-thinking into revealed eternalism reality when lift the lid of snake-basket during Mystery Religion initation, resulting in COMPLETION OF MATURATION, become immortal, non-dying, and lifted above – partly – eternalism.
We become MALE AND FEMALE: harmoniously marry the two DISTINCT and productively COMPLEMENTARY mental models.
ETERNALISM REALITY MARRIED TO INTEGRATED WITH POSSIBILISM-THINKING/ VIRTUAL EXPERIENCING OF HOLDING BRANCH IN LEFT HAND IN THE CHARIOT STEERED BY DIONYSUS W/ SPEAR IN RIGHT HAND.
This “Wedding” analogy mytheme Accomplishes my Vision of my branching-message mushroom trees article for the Journal of Psychedelic Studies being a MILESTONE BREAKTHROUGH *CELEBRATION* rather than Cranky Rebuttal to Ronald Huggins & the MICA Deniers
The “Wedding” Article/ summary of Egodeath theory, which so beautifully and effectively concluded my 2007 main article.
! male + female integrated = the 2 mental models in harmony: branching + non branching possibilities ; monolithic, autonomous control + 2-level, dependent control .
possibilism-thinking married to eternalism-thinking
hermes aphrodite andro gyne
picture: dionysus victory marriage ariadne procession 🏆👑 mosaic
of two minds, wedded.
“WEDDING CELEBRATION” theme , instead of cranky rebuttal to Deniers of mushroom imagery in Christian art
– I found how to copy & analyze the key section of Huggins article which asks “pls explain the branches that contradict the mushroom shape” and fully address his objections.
My article tone in the Journal of Psychedelic Studies – celebration, as in Dionysus wedding Ariadne, the two “fighting against each other” mental models — or rather, *complementary* mental models of control & branching possibilities.
by employing the {wedding of two ways of thinking} … not Stairway’s “two paths” but rather two complementary mental models married, integrated and differentiated
Not as Wouter Hanegraaff demonizes heim and conflates sphere 8 & 9 unproducitvely.
Differenttiate the Ogdoad & Ennead and complemenary; affirm both distinct ways of thinking: the marriage of soul+spirit; possibilism-thinking + eternalism-thinking. Productively.
Both mental models are affirmed in mature productive harmony. That mosaic picture perfectly concluded my 2007 main article; repeat that framing move.
2. my reply apr 17 2025
Thank you, was hoping to get your input. Will print & read your email.
Thanks for the option, this is too hard to theorize! I must lower the bar for myself as much as possible.
I do like the “fair and balanced” idea yesterday of:
“If there is qualified possibilism-thinking in the end, then in the end there must also be QUALIFIED eternalism-thinking.”
There is well-established concepts and debates in terms of free will vs. determinism & “compatibilism” — not based in relevant altered state experiencing.
The medieval mushroom-tree artists are not concerned in terms of some “free will” vs. “determinism” debate;
they are concerned with stable control and the two mental models,
neither of the relevant contrasting (complementary!) mental models is described by the “free will vs. determinism debate” nor the “compatibilism” position within that debate.
My message/ story/ narrative is not, and must not be “freewill is an illusion”!
My friend said the other day “I was displeased that there’s no-free-will” — but that is NOT the takeaway!
Don’t let outsiders frame the revelation and mature mental model – integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking.
Nor is the message “nondual unity oneness” – glad to see that idea lately is finally getting pushback, equating “common-core mysticism and perennialism = nondual unity oneness” (that’s why I MUST reject “perennialsm”, b/c everyone defines:
“Perennialsm says all mysticism has something in common. [so good so far]. AND, that thing in common is nondual unity onenness.” NO! Reject.
Similarly, EVERYONE defines ‘determinism’ = domino-chain determinism; causal-chain determinism. Kafei proved it’s not an option for me to redefine ‘determinism’ as block-universe eternalism instead.
It’s not an option for me to redefine ‘perennialism’ differently than everyone else has already defined it.
I MUST adhere to my own, closed lexicon – conceptual vocabulary and meaning-network – of Egodeath theory, not allow alien imported meaning-networks like “no-free-will”.
Yet, my theory (Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism) MUST be able to converse with popular trend concepts too.
You understand my un-ease w/ highlighting the term ‘eternalism’ – so, you’re saying, no-free-will? No. Different meaning-network. Mystery Religion maturation and balance and completion of psychospiritual development. Yes, it’s LIKE no-free-will, comparable; but, a different meaning-network.
not free will vs. determinism;
possibilism “versus” eternalism and then in some useful way, reconciling them –
driven by accurate description of:
“How does mental model transform under loose cognition from Psilo?”
ans: Isaac is sacrificed and lives on, Gen 22. You are blessed because you HAVE done this thing and you have NOT withheld the offering demanded. You may pass through the gate into the future, as viable control agent.
“no-free-will” is hardly a description of that!
— Cybermonk
3. my followup reply
Great idea I can share my struggle with my church, they were understanding when I have mentioned that, about the huge challenge of presenting for clarity these possibly objectionable ideas, possibly divisive (some ppl will like them; some ppl will misinterpret, or dislike, etc)
Permutations of reactions:
comprehend and like
comprehend and dislike – ok w/ me. success = comprehend.
uncomprehend and “like” (positive strawman)
uncomprehend and “dislike” (negative strawman)
The members of my psychedelic church seemed understanding and supportive.
The editor of the first annual church reader didn’t approve my summary article title like:
The Wonders and Terrors of 4D Spacetime Block-Universe Mysticism
I’ll instead focus on the medieval art genre of {mushroom-trees} and explain why we must instead view the entire set of motifs:
{mushrooms}, {branching}, {handedness}, and {stability} motifs.
re: wonders & terrors, I can explain the experience of the threat of catastrophic loss of control, as a solution to the question of “What exactly is the fearsome shadow that vexes this realm?”
And also “wonders & terrors” means, pros and cons of affirming eternalism.
I want to emphasize – this fits popular trend against “nondual” —
Ego is real, is good, is beloved; possibilism is good, is true in a way, and
we INTEGRATE and “embrace and include” BOTH possibilism and eternalism.
NOT “no-free-will”.
NOT “ego is illusion”.
The message is not “the future is closed” – we must do better, tell a better framing.
I can talk w/ my church about these concerns, as you point out, w/o my being obliged to already have all the answers.
SO therefore, I can frame to my church as:
“here are pros and cons or here are CONCERNS and here is a NEED FOR BALANCE; you all can contribute and work out what such a balance – and you gain this revelation – you can come up with.
That was the problem faced by Late Antiquity upon receiving “worship heimarmene imprisonment” that their forebears gave them from Classical Antiquity.
“We must form a better framing in light of the fate-ruled cosmos,”, everyone said.
No brand of religion in Late Antiquity said, then, “we deny eternalism, and affirm possibilism” – maybe the Church eventually said “possibilism is the case, eternalism is not the case” – as a later development.
Instead they said “purified soul rises to sphere 8 grasping eternalism, and the spirit (only) rises above that to sphere 9, qualified possibilism-thinking”.
Hanegraaff notes this in his book about ancient altered-state hermetism;
The ancients affirmed rise above Fate, = qualified possibilism (cosmos sphere 9; precession of the equinoxes) – “please take me to the Ennead as you promised, teacher!”
while the ancients also continued to affirm body (& soul!) remained in Fate. = eternalism, or perhaps “qualified eternalism”. (cosmos sphere 8, fixed stars) – “please take me to the Ogdoad as you promised, teacher!”
Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity (Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022)
So my adjustments are in line w/ popular adjustments re: nondual unity oneness where
ppl are rightly rejecting “the individual doesn’t exist”.
Ppl report “omg you are stealing my soul!” Seems to be commonly expressed.
— Cybermonk
Intensely Anti-Religion, “Science” Advocate Author Alan Houot Meets with Psychedelic Church Book Club Today
In the course of advocating “Science” (his quirky view of it), the author picks a fight against religion and the gods. Am I the bad guy for accurately pointing this out? I think my … I am debating. I think my book review is great, inspired – but I worry about it.
I have Reviewer’s Block, like Wouter Hanegraaff traumatized me by giving me a cosmos model stripped of my favorite thing, fixed stars. Only now, 3 years later, can I post a review of Hanegraaff’s book. I have a review page for Houot that starts, “this has all the points that the review needs, an adequate draft”: to find it, check pages in site map: https://egodeaththeory.org/nav/#Hanegraaff – it’s in my main page about the book.
Hanegraaff (and thus all scholars of hermetism, as I proved about multiple YouTube videos) is intensely deluded and confused about “the Ogdoad above[sic] the heimarmene” that we are mainly reborn into.
The Ogdoad (cosmos sphere 8, defined by the fixed stars) is the headquarters of heimarmene and is IN the cosmos as its outer boundary, not yet OUTSIDE the fate-ruled cosmos – the opposite of Hanegraaff’s model of rebirth.
Sphere 8 is hardly “above heimarmene”; sphere 8 filled with zodiac which = fate per Hanegraaff’s book, is ruled by emperor Demiurge – see Hanegraaff’s own article in Cambridge dictionary, about Demiurge. See Academia.edu > Hanegraaff > Gnosis dictionary entries, etc.
After the soul level of the mind is reborn into heimarmene-compliance and thus purified, THEN the spirit portion of the mind is finally lifted above the Ogdoad/Fate, into sphere 9, Prime Mover, Ennead, precession of the equinoxes, outside the cosmos.
Hanegraaff’s writings re: fixed stars and sphere 8 & fate & demiurge contradict themselves; it’s incoherent. I do not believe that the cosmos model held by hermetism in Late Antiquity contradicts that held by all other brands eg David Ulansey’s solution explaining Mithraism, in Late Antiquity. I believe that hermeticism same as all brands of religion in Late Antiquity held that sphere 8 fixed stars is IN the fate-ruled cosmos, and only sphere 9 is outside the fate-ruled cosmos.
I agree w/ Hanegraaff’s book that rebirth is of the soul into sphere 8, mostly, and then less so, spirit only into sphere 9 above heimarmene; outside the fate-ruled cosmos.
That all fits successfully and harmoniously with Hanegraaff’s book and other writings, after correcting Hanegraaff per his admission in infamous footnote 114:
“Whether the fixed stars should be included [with Saturn, sphere 7] or should rather be associated with the Ogdoad [sphere 8] remains an open question for me.” – p. 294, footnote 114, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022.
Preparing to Meet with Author Alan Houot (Rise of the Psychonaut) at Psychedelic Church’s Book Club (Email to Wrmspirit April 17, 2025)
There is a lot of potential to leap ahead in curing the divide of “science vs. religion”.
wrmspirit wrote:
> I can’t think of a better place to visit for an anti-religion guy than a psychedelic church book group.
> You might just be surprised at how it turns out.
You could pray for our poor book club, of the most expert and professional participants, meeting today with the author Alan Houot as we finish this book.
Praying to heal the split between “Science” and “Religion”, which this author did not invent.
Out of all my recent stresses since I started reading this book, I’ve been more stressed about today’s author visit at our church group, than anything else.
I’m in contact with the author Alan Houot, who is much friendlier and less adversarial than Thomas Hatsis or James Kent in our personal communications.
But Houot really is shockingly adversarial (socially awkward) in his would-be popular book (for a popular audience, supposedly).
He makes SURE to let the reader know how much he disrespects religion/ spirituality/ mysticism/ myth/ esotericism.
If you’re in any way interested in those, he attaches the words “immature; irrational; mentally ill”.
Amazon asks reviewers: What should people know about this book?
I and my book club could barely get past this author’s adversarial stance.
The author writes like 7th graders online fighting between the Christian apologists vs. the atheists: book club said, “immature”, “arrogant” (before I said anything).
Houot is hubristic against the gods (not that I’m trying to hex and negatively prophecy a bad, humbling experience).
This is not an area where you want to bring in hubristic dishonoring of religion!
Maximum risk, shaking fist at gods, of being struck down and humbled.
Houot didn’t invent, but he partcipates in, his cartoon version of “Science” battling against his cartoon version of “Religion”.
which includes the leaders eg Roland Griffiths of the Johns Hopkins team (that is now history; gone; disbanded – before ever publishing their 2016 research, 9 years ago, administering Psilocybin to religious professionals – “long awaited” writeup, now “mysteriously disappeared” and overshadowed by the Mysticism Wars –
And, while the Griffiths group burns, here you have me yelling repeatedly “psychedelic pseudo science! Based on Stace’s total misrep. of mystical experience! The Challenging Experience Questionnaire (CEQ) – which deletes 18 of 21 challenging experiences — is even more fantasy-based garbage than Tim Leary’s Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ) which imagines “unpleasant therefore unmystical!”)
Crop by Michael HoffmanCrop by Michael Hoffman, Jan. 11, 2025Crop by Michael Hoffman, 2023/03/14
king-Lines Connecting Items
Crop and annotations by Michael Hoffman, Jan. 3, 2025
Matthew Johnson filed ethics violations complaints for his team advocating spirituality.
Johnson advocates extremist hardcore materialist naturalist Science.
Johnson characterizes spiritual researchers in the field (his teammate Roland Griffiths) as extreme wooly headed mystics who say only mind exists, not matter.
It seems some mystics DO say only mind exists.
“Science” supposedly means, saying only matter exists, according to the school of thought of such “Science” advocates.
Both positions are of low relevance, I say (only mind|matter exists).
What’s relevant instead is stable control in order to explore the altered state, and so that’s what the mushroom-tree artists focus on, not Phil. dept. armchair debates about Epistemology or “free will vs. determinism”.
Max Freakout took down his Academia.edu article Cog Phen’y of Mind Manif but it is the world’s best article on altered state meta-perception; the article is in the book, which I have, with his name.
Max Freakout shows the RELEVANT approach to perception and epistemology.
I hope Houot isn’t mad at me for today’s book club meeting, but he has it coming, being so arrogant against a religious approach.
He should be glad someone nice & constructive & substantive as me is the one to set him straight.
My book club just about cancelled reading his book, it feels like (the book I recommended).
In my church, my health screener professional told me she’s glad she didn’t read the book, after I reported the book club’s reaction where the book club leader (all sharp experts & professionals) quoted page 10, “put down this book if..”
I’m not the aggressor in writing an accurate book review; the author is the aggressor (he didn’t didn’t invent that aggression; he falls into it and perpetuates it).
He had me looking up the word ‘churlish’ – no social common sense.
A few years ago this would be called “Aspergers'”. He identifies as technology advocate, though I am in technology, and enjoy theorizing to explain myth as analogy.
‘Analogy’ definition: comparison, to clarify and explain.
Houot makes sure to let everyone know his scorched-earth dismissal of mysticism and even of “esotericism”.
I instead say the pros and cons of esotericism.
He burns that bridge, and then says a few times in the book, he doesn’t entirely dismiss religion, because you shouldn’t be closed-minded —
says Mr. Closed Minded after having burned bridges, scorched-earth, & emphatically let all his readers know that mystical = irrational, immature, & mentally ill, & unfit to do Science discovery.
— Michael
Posted My Book Review of Rise of the Psychonaut at Amazon
I point out his attacking of his readers. Amazon asks “what should ppl know about this book?”
I wish the review said what each chapter is – but, finite word count.
I wish to remove mention of my work at end, though that’s in some of my book reviews at Amazon. Tried to adjust that, try later.
A constructive review moving his idea forward in the direction of the future –which is, wonderful me, the very definition of “spiritually evolved superior person”. Thoroughly lopsided, demonising naive possibilism-thinking, all glory to eternalism-thinking , exclusively.
Typo in Amazon review, I tried to fix, might have to try later: wrote “has” instead of “as”.
Moving Past Eternalism: Qualified Eternalism-Thinking
Against the Lexicon of “free will vs. determinism, & compatibilism”
I used to insult “compatibilism”, but, …. whose “compatibilism”? in what sense?
The term only exists within the debate free will vs. determinism within the field of Epistemology and academic Phil dept, and theology. But those are not the concerns of Egodeath theory or the mushroom-tree artists.
We are not here doing the debate:
causal-chain determinism. initial state, then flow of time, future is non extant but preordained.
egoic branching freewill power into an open future.
We are not here doing the debate:
Only matter exists.
Only mind exists.
We are here modelling mental model transformation, Psilocybin transformation. The two mental models are “compatible” by modifying possibilism-thinking so as to take into account eternalism-thinking. This is what OUR concerns mean by our use of the word “compatibilism”.
Is Egodeath theory common-core mysticism and perennialism? No, too many disparities.
Is Egodeath theory Joseph Campbell? No, too many disparities.
Is Egodeath theory determinism; freewillism; or compatibilism? No, too many disparities.
Is Egodeath theory about neuroplasticity and dread of ego dissolution? No, too many disparities.
REJECT ALL EXTERNAL THEORY LEXICONS. Their concerns are not my concerns or meaning-networks or purposes.
I make a new clean model of mental model transformation in intense mystic altered state; loose mental functioning binding; loose cognitive association binding.
THE TERM ‘COMPATIBILISM’ IS PROFOUND AND VALUABLE, IN POTENTIAL. You in fact, per (transformed by me) Ken Wilber, end up with two distinct mental models: THIS IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT AND RELEVANT! We are NOT debating here, what is metaphysically the case.
Metaphysically, only eternalism is the case. like “determinism is the case, not freewill”. So, we should not say “compatibilism”? What do you think ‘compatm’ must mean?
The word ‘compatibilism’ does NOT necessarily mean asserting insanely that both possibilism and eternalism are metaphysically the case. This is the garble eg from John MacArthur, see my writings about his joking about Romans potter clay, he says IT IS IRRATIONAL that both are true, free will AND determinism.
I am NOT saying that METAPHYSICALLY both possibilism and eternalism are the case, when I advocate the word ‘compatibilism’ as defined by Egodeath theory.
When I say the religion of mature Egodeath theory is a form of compatibilism, I mean
metaphysical reality is revealed by Psilocybin loose cognition: eternalism.
our experiencing is always in the shape of possibilism. after revelation of eternalism, during our Mystery Religion initiation, where lid of basket lifted to reveal snake, we rely on possibilism-thinking but washed clean purified no longer offending and dishonoring the gods.
“The Problem of Proof” presents a full-spectrum empiricism: sensory, mental, and spiritual experience, all of which are equally experiential and can be validated, with evidence that is open to confirmation or rejection by the community.”
Eye to Eye: The Quest for the New Paradigm Ken Wilber 3rd Ed. (with new Preface) https://amzn.com/157062741X
/ end of section about eye to eye copied from my other WordPress page
Video: “Interview With Former Non-duality Speaker Guy Smith” (Jessica Nathanson, 2022) [1]
1:11:45 – he says what I say!! “One is saying there’s only matter, on the other, one saying there’s only consciousness.”
Guy Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHKJUcEynxU&t=4305s = 1:11:45 71 & 60 + 45 = 4305s — “what’s the opposite of relating just like um kind of just like 1:11:19 yeah you just like to kind of debase the person you just say that’s baseless
and it’s 1:11:24 and I feel like comedy is quite like that
[god, buckets of junk words to delete! “and i think that it’s sort of kind of like, you know, blah blah – JUST SAY YOUR POINT!!]
There’s an interesting tie-in between duality on the one hand, and new atheism [similarly] on the other hand and they both tend to have this kind of very like contemptuous kind of stance of like “that’s a load of nonsense this is truth”
— Funnily enough, [ton contrast those two arrogant systems] given that one [athieism] is saying there’s only matter, on the other, one [pop nonduality] saying there’s only consciousness.
[That sounds like my rejection of “both sides” in the Mysticism Wars: cartoon materialist junk “Science” vs cartoon junk “Mysticism”. A pox on both their houses. -Michael Hoffman
Junk words galore though; would require tons of cleanup by me.
Transcript short excerpt con’t:
1:11:47
You can see the big kind of splits there the kind of black and white thinking very much
yeah um but I was just thinking 1:11:52 about it because also like
There’s comedians who have got very kind of like involved in that and you’re like Ricky Gervais who’s kind of big on his atheism and his kind of contempt for anything.
[sounds like ex-psychedelicist James Kent condemning Egodeath theory for explaining myth, and like Alan Houot writes in Rise of the Psychonaut: “You are immature, irrational, mentally ill, and unfit to do science exploring discovery, if you are at all in any way interested in esotericism/ myth/ religion/ mysticism/ spirituality.” <– good wording, add to Houot book club page ]
Book Review: Rise of the Psychonaut (Houot, 2025)
Copied to my Rise of the Psychonaut page, which is the master copy:
this is an older copy; newer is in my Rise of the Psychonaut page, which is better than what got submitted to Amazon (slightly) so far.
Alan Houot’s basic idea in Rise of the Psychonaut is that instead of restricting psychedelics to the therapy approach and the mysticism approach, we should also (or, instead?) use the “Science explorer discoverer, using tools and technology” approach to psychedelics.
However, Houot’s particular conceptualization of Science and exploration (as well has his atheist-brand conception of Religion and mysticism) is narrow and quirky.
It’s unclear what useful, relevant tools and technologies are provided so far, by Houot’s approach. How exactly does reading Houot’s publications help the psychonaut during the peak window of the intense mystic altered state, to have viable, stable control? Mystical surrender is not an option, theorizes Houot, but we could use shamans’ successful technologies such as dance and drumming.
To develop his model, Houot should (as planned) model the dynamics of “surrender” to produce stable control in the altered state, per a book of useful even if merely folk wisdom that I can recommend, Michelle Janikian’s book Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion: An Informative, Easy-to-Use Guide to Understanding Magic Mushrooms—From Tips and Trips to Microdosing and Psychedelic Therapy.
I wish Rise of the Psychonaut treated Houot’s next-favorite topic after alien entities contact, his critique of ‘surrenderism’, contrasted against shamans, who have full self-control in the psychedelic state due to their superior technology, and never need to do something like ‘surrender’. It would be really interesting to analyze and discuss the concept of ‘surrender’ with Houot: what are the dynamics there, to produce stable control? How does personal control transform, rather than just staying as-is and handing over the wheel of control, untransformed, as-is, to the revealed level of control that’s hidden behind the scenes?
Houot doesn’t engage with altered-state based Rock lyrics reporting problems with steering a ship (No One at the Bridge; S.A.T.O.), or the myth of Dionysus and the pirates, where the captain doesn’t honor Dionysus and is killed, while the pilot honors Dionysus and is saved.
Houot should question whether shamans have full stable self-control, and should approach myth/ esotericism/ religion as analogy to be used effectively by a Science-based approach, rather than a scorched-earth, wholesale rejection of any interest in a mystical approach to psychedelics.
When Science recognizes esotericism as analogy describing psychedelic transformation, then Science can use analogy properly and powerfully, to explain mental model transformation in the altered state (as a 1st-tier concern), and also, as a 2nd-tier concern, explain how religion is analogy trying to describe psychedelic mental model transformation.
Then use Engineering product development to deliver a useful tool that’s ergonomic, relevant, clear & simple, to help and suitably equip cognitive scientists and everyone to endure and explore the altered state. (I’m describing my own approach per the Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism; thank you Houot for encouraging me to write a book.)
5 of 5 stars for Houot’s much-needed basic idea, but, be warned! On page 10, this book says that you are immature, irrational, mentally ill, and unfit to do science exploration discovery, if you are at all in any way interested in esotericism/ myth/ religion/ mysticism/ spirituality, or if you use any other approach to psychedelics for any purpose and motive other than “Science” and “Technology” exactly as the author conceptualizes it — which is, approaching psychedelics as if exploring the physical external world like ships in the 1400s, and alien entities contact in the psychedelic state, like NASA.
A psychedelic church’s astute book club immediately picked up on this false-dichotomy, adversarial quote:
“Please put this book down if you’ve never ingested psychedelics or if you take them for therapeutic, recreational, religious, spiritual growth, personal growth, cognitive enhancement, creativity-inspirational, or self-actualizing purposes. It’s not for you … With that said, my message will not resonate with everyone.” – p. 10
Later in the book, Houot writes that we should not entirely write-off religion, because that would be closed-minded.
Please put this book down if you’ve never ingested psychedelics or if you take them for therapeutic, recreational, religious, spiritual growth, personal growth, cognitive enhancement, creativity-inspirational, or self-actualizing purposes. It’s not for you … With that said, my message will not resonate with everyone.
You are immature, irrational, mentally ill, and unfit to do science exploration discovery, if you are at all in any way interested in esotericism/ myth/ religion/ mysticism/ spirituality, or if you use any other approach to psychedelics for any purpose and motive other than “Science” and “Technology” exactly as I conceptualize it — which is, approaching psychedelics as if exploring the physical external world like ships in the 1400s, and alien entities contact in the psychedelic state, like NASA. But we should not entirely write-off religion, because that would be closed-minded.
and and I was just thinking about like humor like 1:12:09 because there’s a hu … comedians … Richie Gervais…. his atheitsm, contempt for …. [the little, lower people]
Don’t Stop at eternalism-thinking (gives “balance” in Sense 1 during altered state) and Repudiating Possibilism-thinking; “Balance” in Sense #2 requires Integrating Qualified possibilism-thinking + …. ! *qualified eternalism-thinking*
New idea 8 4 1 apr 16 2025: “qualified eternalism-thinking”.
April 16, 2025: The Egodeath Theory Created the Concept-Label “qualified eternalism-thinking” to Balance Out the Concept “qualified possibilism-thinking”
Only have naive possibilism-thinking (lack eternalism-thinking). 1987
Integrate qualified possibilism-thinking + qualified eternalism-thinking. the project of 2000-2025, marked by / starting w/ Coraxo in Gnosticism Yahoo Group (2000?) pointing out to me that the 1997 core theory (the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence) cannot discuss Late Antiquity aspiration to transcend block-universe eternalism.
It is POSSIBLE to find in Archive.org the posting where Coraxo pointed out to me the lack of analogy-capability of 1997 core Egodeath theory. Around 2000. Before June 2001 where I posted “coraxo” in Egodeath Yahoo Group. Then I got David Ulansey’s solution explaining Mithraism, book in 2001, which focuses on “transcend heimarmene”. I am not crediting Coraxo entirely
Nor do I give ALL credit to Giorgio Samorini 1998 for FINALLY following up on Panofsky’s lead about “there are hundreds of mushroom-trees”.
As soon as I started seriously researching Myth in 1998, it was inevitably destined by Fate, written in the stars, [right there you see how wrong Wouter Hanegraaff is: the expression “written in the stars” would FORCE Hanegraaff to say it! say it! say “Ogdoad = Fate” aginst his huge folly quote, “the Ogdoad above the heimarmene”
As soon as I started seriously researching Myth in 1998, it was inevitable that I would encounter this failing / limitation of the simple basic 2-level model of the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence 1997, egodeath core theory.
The only reason I didn’t develop the idea of “transcend block-universe eternalism” earlier…
Note my 1991 drawing ink, the VISUAL GRAPHICAL (! LIKE MEDIEVAL DIAGRAMMATIC ART) seed of the idea of “transcend eternalism”, about 8 years before my 1997 theory spec asserting basic 2-level model lacking “integrate eternalism”.
I confirmed the other day: my 1997 spec lacks any hook (more than microscopic trace) for the idea of “transcend determinism”.
If I delete just 2 words from my 1997 spec, it would be purely a basic, 2-level model, with NO TRACE of the idea of “integrate block-universe eternalism w/ egoic branching-thinking”.
Michael Hoffman, ~1991, ink brush in blank art book
The Egodeath Theory’s Revealing of the Folly of Hanegraaff & All Scholars of Hermetism Was Written in the Stars
Wouter Hanegraaff:
the Ogdoad above the heimarmene [ie sphere 8 is pure from the pollution of having fixed stars]
Crop by Michael Hoffman, Apr. 16, 2025 (tight crop)
qet <– proof that the idea is new: no keyboard shortcut yet
qualified eternalism-thinking qet
! this could mark a kind of milestone for my recent work on shifting away from marketing “eternalism” toward marketing “virtual freewill”, “virtual branching possibilities”; you always use possibilism-thinking even during peak window of intense mystic altered state
peak window of the intense mystic altered state pwimas
Moving Past Non-Duality
joke re: article “Moving Past Mysticism in Psychedelic Science”.
Video: “Interview With Former Non-duality Speaker Guy Smith” (Jessica Nathanson, 2022)
Video title: Interview With Former Non-duality Speaker Guy Smith youtube ch: The Glorious Both-And [= Jessica Nathanson] Oct 17, 2022 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHKJUcEynxU “Ex Non-dualist Author Guy Smith on Moving Beyond Neo-Advaita … Guy Smith is former non-dualist.”
Guy Smith says, “We need critics of non-dual doctrine, self doesn’t exist, you are an illusion, etc.” — Egodeath theory TO THE RESCUE, ie i have criticism in spades, of Pop Spir’y.
Transcript excerpt cleaned up by Michael Hoffman; quick post of her key statement at 31:09 esp. 31:20 at the word “integrate“:
Jessica Nathanson: [31:09]
but what that experience will mean affects that
Guy: yeah
Jessica Nathanson:
So I thought to myself
and curious what you think or other people is let’s say
Before I had had my big ego drop experience, if I had been told:
What you are is more than just a separate self and an ego.
And when this you’re gonna have this experience or if you have this experience where your sense of self, and it falls away, and you’re open to this other dimension of reality, that’s not the be all end-all either.
[4D spacetime block universe eternalism
Eternalism-thinking (in narrow, exclusive sense) is not the end-state of Psilocybin transformation. The actual end-state is integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking, combining qualified possibilism-thinking & qualified eternalism-thinking as well; both are qualified. Sacrifice Isaac in a way, preserve Isaac, in a way.
Isaac says {fire}, wood = {branches} – equivalent to burning bush.
{fire} = disproof of egoic personal control system in intense mystic altered state. “burnt offering” = the mind is made to disprove the basis of egoic personal control system, and repudiate that and not rely on that.
This is not a demand you must agree to; this is a realization of how things actually are, that is impressed on your mind by the higher controller.
Isaac is made to realize the nullity of his assumed foundation, now made able to see.
Sacrifice of Isaac (Van der Borch)
Sacrifice of Isaac (Canterbury Psalter)
Sacrifice of Isaac (Golden Psalter)
Bible Excerpt: Gen 22, Sacrifice of Isaac
““The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”
8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.
9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram[a] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The Lord Will Provide. And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.””
15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring[b] all nations on earth will be blessed,[c] because you have obeyed me.”
Gen 22:15 – You HAVE Done This Thing, You Have NOT Withheld Your Son
keyboard shortcut (condensed; for general purpose for Egodeath theory):
“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering. Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son. Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. Because you have done this and have not withheld your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky. Through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.” Gen 22:7-18 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%2022%3A7-18&version=NIV s-o-i gen22
Only the Egodeath theory — which the mushroom-tree artists understood — explains the SENSE IN WHICH Abr sacr’d Isaac and did not sacr Isaac.
the mushroom-tree artists mta
Gen 22:15 — NIV: “Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” I like KJB, “because you have done this thing“(!) – ERROR: I FAILED TO INCLUDE FINAL PARAGRAPH.
Transcript:
That’s right.
That’s like the other half of the picture.
There’s the personal, and then there’s this more Universal or impersonal.
but you’re not going to stop there.
You’re going to keep going and integrate that back together
so that the self is still there, it’s still real, but it’s not it’s not all of what’s real.
[CRUDE WORDING! instead ask “in what sense, self?” -Michael Hoffman]
right like
It’s part of something greater.
If I had been told that [as per Egodeath theory, if Egodeath theory (or Ken Wilber) had told her that], how would that have affected the whole trajectory of my Awakening path and of my even direct experience?
Guy Smith:
How do you think it would have affected your experience?
Jessica Nathanson:
I mean I think it would have it would have been um
I wish that that had been the case, because I wouldn’t have had these notions of needing to, when the self comes back online that I need to then fight against it or look down on that or feel you know like this is just an illusion that needs to be gotten rid of.
Don’t Look Down on Isaac, Your Beloved Child-Thinking: Rely on It; “Embrace and IncludeTM” Isaac (Ken Wilber)
transcript con’t:
Guy Smith:
I think I think we’ve kind of talked about this before
[32:45]
I think I possibly go even further than you in that direction.
and I appreciate that you know
I like your position because it’s very inclusive
[he or she talking?]
but I maybe just because
Guy Smith:
I need to lean on this side more because especially with people I’m working with and yeah myself I need to really like be an advocate of of people’s kind of personal kind of power and intelligence and creativity, which absolutely gets shut out by the view that everything’s already decided and it already is, and there’s no nothing you can do.
[SUCH CRUDE WAY OF SPEAKING! JUNK POP SPIR’Y – this horrible garbled talk is why I wrote-off and plundered the literature in 1986, and had to roll-my-own model of ego transcendence/ Transcendent Knowledge that is (my Engineering mantra:) USEFUL, HELPFUL, RELEVANT, SIMPLE, CLEAR. – Michael Hoffman]
um and
[I don’t like how this evidence, that supposedly non-drug meditation has powerful effects, contradicts my claim that meditation has no effect nothing. I can still claim that:
Non-drug meditation has INSUFFICIENT transformative power.
Proof that non-drug meditation is bogus: it produces confusion like “self doesn’t exist.” It produces what Wilber warns against, shattering of lower developmental structures, rather than transcend-and-include them.
dis-identify with, embrace, and include possibilism-thinking deipt
dis-identify with, embrace, and include possibilism-thinking important word Ken Wilber: “embrace”
dis-identify with, transcend, and include lower developmental structures dti
dis-identify with, transcend, embrace, and include lower developmental structures, per Ken Wilber dtei could add “integrate”, or re-integrate & transform egoic thinking; possibilism-thinking.
– Michael Hoffman]
Transcript continues:
Guy Smith:
What strikes me is though like
When I first had a kind of like a kind of adult spiritual kind of experience, it was just through kind of meditation and it was really blissful and lovely
At this point, I hadn’t heard of the word ‘non-dual’, let alone the whole kind of scene.
and if I think about it it was in a sense
it was very personal because it was in a way I was like I I guess
I’d grown up in a world which had kind of shaped how I saw myself
and then that was kind of unquestioned
and then in this experience it was a kind of a somehow finding a way to to kind of did like let go of that and to really start to feel myself and feel reality and see myself in my own way rather than a way that I just kind of inherited
and I think I think that
The sad thing is that people often you know they’ll have their own experience and there’s like a million experiences so I’m not trying to make this some kind of special cherished experience you have to have.
There’s just something that happened to me that was kind of very powerful and nice
um but I think
It was an experience of me trusting my own sense of things so ironically then I was looking around I guess that’s something people often do
that
You have this novel thing happen, and you want somebody else to tell you what it means, what that’s all about.
☸️🌳💥🔨
[it’s about ELIMINATE & GET RID OF & DESTROY POSSIBILISM-THINKING! ☸️🌳💥🔨 THERE IS NO-FREE-WILL! THERE ARE NO BRANCHING POSSIBILITIES! – Cybermonk 1997]
and that’s I think where I then
That’s kind of sad in a way that people go that way because actually what it is is a big opening up of their own sense of like … how they see things, how they sense … Guy Smith continues…
/ end of transcript excerpt cleaned up by Michael Hoffman
Against Nonduality Unity Oneness Advaita
After decades, I pinned down Ken Wilber as merely non-drug Advaita.
Integral Theory is excuses for failing to deliver any promised enlightenment after decades of wasteful meditation.
In 1986 I read the books in the field, as failed theories to [junk yard reclaimation word] to plunder and transform to repair.
Unlike how Alan Houot says “reject all religion spir mysticism esotericism”, my strategy instead is PLUNDER THE WRECKAGE OF FAILED ATTEMPTS AT ENLIGHTENMENT.
Plunder the Wreckage of Failed Entheogen Scholarship, Advaita, Mysticism
Video title: Interview With Former Non-duality Speaker Guy Smith ch: The Glorious Both-And [her YouTube channel, brand, website] Oct 17, 2022
Desc:
“Ex Non-dualist Author Guy Smith on Moving Beyond Neo-Advaita…
“Guy Smith is a writer, body psychotherapist and former non-dualist.
“His first book, This Is Unimaginable & Unavoidable was written from the perspective of radical non-duality and made him a known figure within the community.
“His second book, Mystery Not Mastery, though also written from a non-dual perspective, contained his first criticisms of Western non-duality.
“Now, 16 years on, he’s writing a novel about the dark side of non-duality.
“He’s been working therapeutically with people from the non-dual community for over a decade.”
The Egodeath Community Is Not a Non-Dual Community
the Egodeath community > the non-dual community
joke
> means “is better than”
After No-Self, You Must Integrate Self and No-Self
Great Canterbury Psalter f145 row 1 L: warning cubensis traders about control instability resulting from relying on possibilism-thinking; possibility-branching model pbm
the possibility-branching model pbm
the possibility-branching mental model pbmm
the possibility-branching model of time and control pbmtc
Crop by Michael HoffmanCrop by Michael Hoffman, Feb. 27, 2023
Rush: Cygnus, the God of Balance
Balance is also a theme of kylix cup, designed to fall over.
Confirmed that the WordPress gallery July 2022 has the book photo:
“Jessica Nathanson is dedicated to spreading awareness about the pitfalls of radically imbalanced non-dual teachings and exploring how to engage with non-dual spirituality in a way that honours rather than denigrates the individual self and inspires human flourishing towards the highest good for all. She is trained as a spiritual emergency coach.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XQLCpU-TBY that Video title: “Q&A on ‘What’s Wrong with NonDual Spirituality’“
she seems the gullible brains behind the operation, not Tim Freke,
Debunking Neo-Advaita: Wisdom Is an Illusion; Wisdom Doesn’t Exist
joke
self doesn’t exist
stupid binary statements, fake profundity
your IQ doesn’t exist
“time is an illusion” –> your profundity is an illusion
IN WHAT SENSE is time an illusion? Too hard intellectual work for these ADVAITA BUMS, meditation hucksters.
title of bricklin book the illusion of time, self, and will, wm james reluctnant guide to enlightenment
Benefit of Egodeath Theory: Shuts Out Bad Religion eg Neo Advaita
The Task of Scientific Explanation: 1st-, 2nd-, & 3rd-Order Tasks
Michael Hoffman, April 15, 2025 Meant to write “Psychedelic Transformation”, not Psilocybin. Title, date, & signature would be good. change “previous” to “the OLD theory” (disparaging)
1997: explain Psilocybin transformation
2007: explain analogy myth.
2025: explain why Advaita is inferior theory. eg friend advises me to just ignore the wrong theories – it’s a 3rd tier concern.
The definition of ‘analogy’ is perfect for Egodeath theory as Science explanatory framework.
Metaphor is bad, confusing, fiction, as when a theory is BASED IN metaphor or BASED IN analogy, that’s bad, that’s the problem to be avoided/solved in a successful theory.
Great voice recording April 15, 2025 (other than experimental noise gate that’s binary on/off (not muddy, but clippy).
1st Order: Explain Psilocybin Transformation (1997 theory spec)
James Kent & Alan Houot fail to leverage analogy and myth, in their crude, lazy, scorched-earth total dismissal of religion/ spir’y/ myth/ esotericism.
Science does not “get rid of” analogy; Science is not based in analogy; Science leverages analogy in order to explain the 1st-order target.
Myth is analogy reflecting Psilocybin transformation. The 2nd-order explanandum of an ideal Science theory is myth as analogy.
I experienced Oct 1985 or especially April 1987-Feb 1997 as “revolutionary science”, to write the core theory.
I experienced 1998-2007 as “revolutionary science” to explain myth and use myth to corroborate the core theory.
I experienced 2010-Nov. 2020 as relatively “normal science”, filling in my 2007 framework.
Nov. 2020 was a breakthrough in that.
Dec. 2020-April 2025, continued the fill-in project of Normal Science fleshing-in that explanatory framework.
3rd Order: Explain the Old Theory eg “Surrender to Psychedelic Ego Dissolution”
Video: Free Will, Morality, Self Awareness | Robert Sapolsky
I didn’t pay attention to this, but the 4-hour vid surveying what physicists said on this topic on this channel, is a build up to this.
d/k what’s so special about this guy’s take, superior to the other 25 guys.
“Robert Sapolsky joins Curt Jaimungal to discuss some of the most important topics of our time.
“Topics discussed include
morality,
free will,
the justice system,
intuition, and
chaos theory.”
A Special Hell for the 99% of Liars Who Censor “Nitrous” from William James, Including the First Sentence Ken Wilber Published
Granted, James writes awkwardly; he does not write a smooth lead-in, like:
On nitrous oxide, I saw that our normal waking consciousness is but one special type.
What I wish James wrote
Some years ago I myself made some observations on this aspect of nitrous oxide intoxication, and reported them in print. One conclusion was forced upon my mind at that time, and my impression of its truth has ever since remained unshaken. It is that our normal waking consciousness, rational consciousness as we call it, is but one special type of consciousness, whilst all about it, parted from it by the filmiest of screens, there lie potential forms of consciousness entirely different.
Thank God! Cool, this page https://kwize.com/quote/7276 actually has a “Context” section that forces the bullsh!tters to come out:
“Some years ago I myself made some observations on this aspect of nitrous oxide intoxication, and reported them in print. [ALWAYS CENSORED!]
“One conclusion was forced upon my mind at that time, and my impression of its truth has ever since remained unshaken.
“It is that our normal waking consciousness, rational consciousness as we call it, is but one special type of consciousness, whilst all about it, parted from it by the filmiest of screens, there lie potential forms of consciousness entirely different.
“We may go through life without suspecting their existence; but apply the requisite stimulus, and at a touch they are there in all their completeness, definite types of mentality which probably somewhere have their field of application and adaptation.”
But read the entire page, around that, too, at Gutenberg.org link below.
Single paragraph:
“Some years ago I myself made some observations on this aspect of nitrous oxide intoxication, and reported them in print. One conclusion was forced upon my mind at that time, and my impression of its truth has ever since remained unshaken. It is that our normal waking consciousness, rational consciousness as we call it, is but one special type of consciousness, whilst all about it, parted from it by the filmiest of screens, there lie potential forms of consciousness entirely different. We may go through life without suspecting their existence; but apply the requisite stimulus, and at a touch they are there in all their completeness, definite types of mentality which probably somewhere have their field of application and adaptation.” —
“Like almost every other scientist and philosopher today, Jonathan reckons without [taking into account the distorting effect of] the Drug War.
“He discusses the effects of laughing gas but fails to even note by way of disclaimer that modern science is actually forbidden from investigating the potential insights that William James experienced under the influence of that gas.
“Sure, we can speculate on them at will from our “drug-free” universities, but even to repeat his modest experiment would risk bringing law enforcement down on our heads.
“As for undertaking his experiments using alternative mind enhancers, like psilocybin or MDMA, the DEA will put every roadblock that they can find in the way as they struggle to maintain their pernicious relevance in 21st-century America.
“For the fact is that we live in a world in which scientists are censored every bit as much as Galileo when it comes to what lines of research they can follow, and authors should be pointing that out via disclaimer in every single paper that they write about a subject dealing with expanded or improved consciousness and the use of psychoactive substances.
“After all, the anti-scientific Drug War will never end if we never admit that it actually exists, that science today is not being performed from a natural baseline but that
we are forbidden from even accessing substances whose use might cause us to challenge the assumptions upon which reductive materialism is based.”
A Lot of Mystical Experiences Happen on Psychedelics at Festivals
Which type of “meditation” are the researchers covering?
Whose “Science”?
Whose “Religion”?
Whose “Meditation”? ie, exoteric vs esoteric (to use one set of terms)
Are the Terms Exoteric and Esoteric Proper to the Egodeath theory lexicon?
Not sure. These terms are useful sometimes to me, but that’s not enough to make them part of my theory’s lexicon.
Compare Ken Wilber terms Pre/Trans fallacy, “dis-identify, embrace, and include”.
Dis-identify with, Embrace, and Include Possibilism-Thinking
dis-identify with, embrace, and include possibilism-thinking dieai
dis-identify with, embrace, and include possibilism-thinking eipt deipt
Dis-identify with, embrace, and include childish egoic possibilism-thinking, modified/ qualified/ purified/ washed clean.
the Egodeath theory lexicon etl
the Egodeath theory conceptual vocabulary etcv
Egodeath-Theory Concepts Collection etcc
Egodeath theory core concepts etccs
This is the bunk type of “meditation”, not authentic, Psilocybin meditation that causes mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism.
The researchers would need to re-conduct the experiment using the real type of meditation, not EXOTERIC MEDITATION.
Findings reported by Roy Baumeister, discussed in a video.
The Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Eternalism Has Nothing to Do with Size of Ego
I am only criticizing meditation hucksters for making inflated claims for meditation that they don’t deliver on, while insulting Psilocybin – as if meditation didn’t come from Psilocybin.
I would never criticize anyone for being egotistical or proud in relation to other people – that has NOTHING to do with Transcendent Knowledge or the key dynamic of ego death; mental model transformation.
The Egodeath theory has nothing whatsoever to do with being more or less egotistical – they are distinct tangential or orthogonal topics.
For example, I am the world’s greatest person 🤴 at doing theory development the way that I do it.
That claim has NOTHING to do with the theory of mental model transformation about control and time and possibility-branching.
Do not conflate the theory of ego transcendence with mere mundane humility, that would be a kind of reductionism (replacing topic A by topic B).
There is a 100% humility in affirming eternalism, the total nullity of ego in a certain restricted particular sense, vs. making your ego a little bigger or smaller which seems more the the futility – I said in Jan 1988 – of the Ken Wilber model of e transcendence e-transcendence ego transcendence.
I wrote/ argued/ reasoned in Jan. 1988, advocating my theory over Ken Wilber’s, as indication that THIS is the true explanation of ego transcendence and that the entire field of transpersonal psychology was wrong about the nature of ego transcendence.
I knew that my breakthrough was entire, in Jan. 1988, that ego transcendence is NOT about endless decades [non-drug thus pseudo-] meditation to reduce size of ego.
Enlightenment must be instant and radical, i agreed with the Way of Zen by Alan Watts.
Ego transcendence must be/ clearly is about loose cognitive state, mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism, which entirely 100% cancels ego.
The fact of 100% cancelling ego in a way, was my proof in Jan. 1988 that I had achieved the expected breakthrough in scientifically explaining what ego transcendence is REALLY about, against the poorly conceived model, THE OLD MODEL; THE PREVIOUS, “Ken Wilber & TRANSPERSONAL PSYCHOLOGY”, OLD PARADIGM AND OLD EXPLANATORY FRAMEWORK.
explanatory framework exfw
transpersonal psychology trps
Against Ken Wilber’s model through 1987, ego transcendence is ACTUALLY only achieved through 100% cancellation via block-universe eternalism in the loose cognitive state.
The Components of the 1988 Breakthrough Theory: the Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence
The components of the Jan. 11, 1988 breakthrough theory that came together:
binary mental-model transformation per the Way of Zen by Alan Watts.
block-universe eternalism per Minkowski 4D spacetime block universe.
the loose cognitive state – mental model transformation in the loose cognitive state [1987 terms: loose mental functioning binding; loose cognitive association binding; mental construct association matrix; mental constructs; mental construct processing]
the cross-time self-control system – mental model of personal control system across time; the cross-time personal control system
cross-time personal control system ctpcs
cross-time self-control system ctscs
cross-time self-control ctscs
mental construct matrix mcm a 1987 term
mental construct association matrix mcam a 1987 term
Minkowski 4D spacetime block universe mfsbu
loose cognitive state lcst
Loose Cognitive Science lcs
Ken Wilber’s Theory Reduced and Summarized
Ken Wilber’s theory is nothing more than merely advocacy of freewill-premised, Advaita, non-drugmeditation for infinite years accomplishing alleged vague complex psycho spir’l devmt per his elaborate framework, with various valuable points attached to that model such as
“Pre/Trans fallacy” &
“dis-identify with the earlier structure, then embrace and include the distinct, earlier structure.”
The two concerns are completely orthogonal and distinct.
Compare Tim Freke’s recent attempt to reject pop spirituality ideas.
Deconstructing the Self
Curt Jaimungal in the video says:
“Someone asks,
“Since Roy has worked on our sense of self, it would be interesting to hear his opinion on meditation techniques that focus on deconstructing the self, even permanently.
So there’s the doctrine of anattad, which is no self in Buddhism as a practice or a goal in general.
Roy Baumeister:
“That’s a very interesting question.
There’s a long passage on this in my book, The Self Explained, which was out I think last year, or the year before.”
It turns out there’s less of that than meets the eye. [TRANSLATION: MEDITATION PROMISES & CLAIMS ARE LIES AND B.S.]
There’s this European group headed by Gebauer who studied people who meditate to see if they become less ego-oriented and so on.
[ie egotistical, which has NOTHING to do w/ ego transcendence, or, is orthogonal, not the same topic]
As they continue to meditate over the weeks, they start to think they’re better than the other people in their yoga group.
So they become more.
[more egotistical in social relation to other ppl]
And then there’s this researcher, Nina Stroeminger, I think, at Yale, who tested a bunch of people on questions related to the self and are you afraid to die, because supposedly having a self makes you afraid to die.
Or if you were sick and there was only one cure in the whole world, one dose, you could take it and it would prolong your life by a month, or you could give it to somebody else and it would prolong their life by a month or by a year or by five years or whatever.
And so they looked at how people trade that off.
And she sampled a whole bunch of different kinds of people, including Zen monks.
And the monks were actually the most egotistical in the sense that they had the highest fear of death.
[nothing bad about that per Egodeath theory, but, it is bad to make bullsh!t claims that you don’t deliver on – Egodeath theory makes no claims about “enlightenment reduces fear of literal bodily death”
Against the justification of “Psychedelic Science”, I reject connecting
the claim “enlightenment reduces fear of literal bodily death” w/
what metaphysical psychedelic enlightenment about eternalism is about]
Roy Baumeister:
“They were least likely to give up the medicine to someone else.
I heard her present this work and she said, I did the research and I wanted to thank the monks for participating.
So I went back to the monastery and presented the results there and they were kind of mad.
That’s extremely interesting.
I clearly won’t be able to go back there and do it anymore.
There’s some other arguments too against the no self issue.”
The Problem Is Extremely Sloppy & Unintelligent Use of Language in Meditation and Mysticism
Roy Baumeister:
“And in terms of basic things, I mean, the Zen monks, even the enlightened ones, it’s not like they put their shoes on somebody else’s feet because they can’t tell the difference.
I mean, they know the difference.”
Overemphasis on “Enlightenment = Nondual Unity Oneness”
Roy Baumeister:
“I think what the no self means is that there’s not a separate thing, that the self only exists in relationship to others.
This goes back to, I think, Nagarjuna, the Buddhist philosopher, who talked about emptiness and the self was empty, but not in the sense that it doesn’t exist at all.
It’s just, it doesn’t have an independent existence, it rather exists in relation to others.
In Western philosophy, David Hume and Immanuel Kant had somewhat of the same exchange.
Hume said, I can’t find myself as just a bundle of perceptions.
And Kant said, well, but I perceive myself perceiving something and Hume was right.
I don’t just perceive myself the way I perceive a table or a shoe or whatever, but I perceive myself doing, you kind of catch yourself in the act of doing something.
So that’s it.
By the way, when you were asking what people could do to improve their willpower, meditation is a fine thing to do it, because it is a pure mental self-control exercise in many respects.
Concentrate on this, count your breaths, visualize this, focus on this, keep your mind from wandering.”
“Dissolution of Ego”: Not Wrong, but Not a Model that’s Very Helpful, Useful, Relevant, Simple, or Clear
Roy Baumeister:
“So that’s interesting, because like the questioner mentioned, meditation is thought of as a dissolution of ego.
But at the same time, meditation is a technique used to train the willpower, which is itself associated with ego.
Yes, and the word dissolution, I remember this back from when I was young in the hippie days, and it means to dissolve.”
‘Dissolve’ both Means Get Rid of, and Spread to Encompass and Identify with the Entire World: Boundary Dissolution
[Tim Freke Warns Against advocacy of “dissolve the ego”.
Ken Wilber warns against psychotic destruction of mental constructions; they should be modified and kept intact and re-integrated, not wholly shattered .
Tim Freke 2025 would do well to read Ken Wilber’s warnings in his early books 1977.]
Roy Baumeister:
“So you can take it to mean that it disappearsor that it merges with others, which is kind emphasizing the connectedness or the interpersonal aspect, or what I said, that the self doesn’t exist independently, but in relation to others.
[and in relation to the hidden source of control-thoughts – warning, Roy is a social psychologist, forcing an overemphasis on the social]
And so if you meditate a lot, you may start to feel that we’re all one and we’re all united, and so on.
But as I said, they still understand the self and this is mine and that’s yours.”
/ end of Roy’s response to audience question
Video: Roy Baumeister: Free Will, The Self, Ego, Will Power (April 2024)
At a glace, I assess that Roy Baumeister is asserting some type of compatibilism.
I used to disdain ‘compatibilism’ as a dishonest term, a mere euphemism for determinism in denial, that 99% of “compatibilists” are hardcore determinists merely labelling themselves as compatibilists, or ppl unclear on the concept of what determinism claims.
Now, late 2024 early 2025, I consider … i may have wrote along these lines since 1997 — ‘compatibilism’ can be a useful concept:
metaphysical reality: eternalism.
experience in form of possibilism.
the enlightened person integrates these two in some way; call that integration “compatibilism”. I am NOT saying the possibilism is the case, metaphyically.
I NO LONGER THINK THE TERM ‘COMPATIBILISM’ MUST MEAN
ASSERTING ETERNALISM IS THE CASE METAPHYSICALLY AND
ASSERTING POSSIBILISM IS THE CASE METAPHYSICALLY.
Whose “Compatibilism”? In what sense? I was being stupid and arguing in terms of “is compatibilism the case, yes or no?” without defining terms.
What’s the Sense in Which Compatibilism Is the Case?
I should have written in terms of:
WHAT’S THE SENSE IN WHICH COMPATIBILISM IS THE CASE?
“This groundbreaking book sheds new scientific light on the age-old question of free will.
“Humankind evolved to flourish by creating a new kind of society, which required an advanced mind capable of recognizing possibilities and making good choices.
“No other animal operates amid economic marketplaces, shared moral principles, legal systems, religious and political institutions, and the like.
“Rather than getting bogged down in philosophical debates, The Science of Free Will surges ahead to explain how this marvelous, newly evolved mental system works.
“Some actions are freer than others, so how does one recognize and take advantage of this freedom?
Key features involve grounding actions in time and pondering multiple possible futures—
indeed understanding one’s life as a story, in which one’s actions link past, present, and future-and conscious thoughts, including
logical reasoning,
planning, and
overriding one’s first impulse.
“Understanding free will in this fashion reveals both the powers and the limits of the human mind.”
Toxic Evolutionary Spirituality
This section is copied, or maybe moved, from page “My Questions for Houot at Psychedelic Church Book Club”.
Houot writes that Explorers are practically required to be Fit and Atheist Rational, While Rejecting (in all senses) anything Religious, Mystical, Esoteric, Spiritual.
I was slightly broken and unfit in one way in Oct 1985-Dec 1987, after my father taught me self-help… he died from cancer in April 1987, keeping me very humble yet I was SIMPLE OPTIMISM: If we repair our mental dysfunction to gain posi-control across time AS WE EXPECT TO HAVE, then life will go smoothly and we WILL NO LONGER BE SELF-CONTRADICTING. My misssion was merely, simply to make people non-self-contradictory, that’s all!
Modest expectation! Idealistic, simplistic, modest, limited. I was never savior of humanity, promising massive expectations. I WAS LAZY UNDERACHIEVER expecting merely to be non-self-contradictory. I was never attuned at all, to any grandiose… NEITHER DID SELF-HELP EVER TELL ME (other than Leary) that the purpose of self-help is extropian super-human evolutionary etc. We never got that inflated narrative, in self-help human potential Ken Wilber … this video IMPLIES ambiguously … ambig whether Ken Wilber advocates spirituality narrr
This video wrongly implies – ambig’ly – that Ken Wilber asserts spiritual narcissism. Actually, Ken Wilber WARNED AGAINST that, in fact this video STEALS CREDIT FOR Ken Wilber’S WARNING. While using sleazy ambig “plausible deniability”. “You can’t prove that this video says Ken Wilber advocates spiritual narcissism.”
This Video’s Obnoxious Ambiguous Implication that Ken Wilber Advocates Spiritual Narcissism – Jules Evans a Ripoff of Ken Wilber
Is the video saying that some followers of Ken Wilber have spir nar?
That’s what Ken Wilber himself says we should beware of!
Ken Wilber is THE theorist of how spiritual narcissim works, and then Evans mis-frames wilber as if Wilber himself is advocating — rather than warning against – spir nar!
I identify with Evans at 50:00 reporting a bad trip, he was dmanaged, he failed acid test, shame, guilt… I relate to that.
Houot falls into the spir nar bucket.
todo: quote the video by Evans at 50:00, interesting, relatable.
Rational, Scientific, Fit, Mature, Fit to be an explorer; vs. Irrational, Immature, Mentally Ill
Elitist Eugenics-Like Prideful Evolutionism
Is Tim Freke’s attempt at “evolutionary spirituality / emergent spirituality” like this, or not?
Perhaps such evolutionary spirituality fans attach themselves to Tim Freke.
I don’t care for Freke’s focus in Soul Story on survival of the soul after literal bodily death.
I embrace the potential of Science, WITHOUT scorched-earth dismissal of religion, sprituality, mysticism, mythology – I just think that the Sceiecne & esp. Engineering approach to explanatory useful framework to produce a useful technology for everyone, to contribute to the collective shared knowleddge base. I WANT EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT RELIGIOUS MYTH IS ACTUALLY REFLECTING.
I cringe at the tone or framing that Houot uses, that only “fit” people are suitable to do Rational Science Discovery Exploration.
I agree that this approach is superior:
Rational Science discovery exploration <– superior approach, to figure out…
Religion, sprituality, mysticism, mythology <– the referent to be figured out.
Jan 1988: Ken Wilber says that the nature of ego transcendence is X. But I say, the scientifically clear and engineering-useful explanatory framework is, instead,
Block-universe eternalism
Psychedelic loose cognition; loose cognitive association binding
Mental model transformation per the Way of Zen by Alan Watts: instant, quick, binary switch of mental models.
To have non-dysfunctional cross-time control. So that one can “plan and do” as expected, NOTHING MORE THAN THAT – not super-respecting enlightenment; rather, I never put enlightenment on a pedestal; instead, I had a disrespectful but PRAGMATIC AND MODEST valuation of enlightenment, Transcendent Knowledge.
Jules Evans – Evolutionary spirituality as a frame for psychedelic experiences
Exeter Psychedelics Group
Jan Irvin warned about this, with Huxley as Dr. Evil, contempt for the masses.
I’m too autistic to use this approach. In 1985 I was just a buggy person trying to repair their malfunctioning personal control system, and then give that explanation to everyone.
That’s it. No other narrative. I’m not a narrative guy, other than that.
In 1985, my father instructed me on leading edge human potential, self-help, transpersonal psychology.
After my block-universe eternalism breakthrough in Jan 1988, my friends had books by Leary, which I found had no appeal and no relevance.
I didn’t cross the street at Stanford in 1991 to bother going to the big psychedelics Bridge conference – that approach was not relevant enough to my project of writing-up my explanatory model of what ego transcendence is really about AND WHY WE CANNOT HAVE POSI-CONTROL ACROSS TIME.
My discovery of eternalism and its 100% total ego death cancellation of a certain sense of monolithic, autonomous control, was the opposite of personal grandiosity.
I am personally grand as an explainer of why 2-level, dependent control is the case, humbling-to-death King Ego.
When I intended to learn what ego transcendence is really about, in order to repair my dysfunctional cross-time control.
dysfunctional cross-time control dctc
Nov 1, 2023 Talk and Q+A with Exeter Research Psychedelic Colloquium.
“One of the dominant cultural frames for psychedelics in western culture over last 130 years has been evolutionary spirituality.
“This tradition suggests human evolution is not finished and can be guided towards the creation of higher beings through such techniques as psychedelics and eugenics or genetic modification.
“But is everyone evolving into a new species, or just an elite? Jules will discuss the tradition of evolutionary spirituality, raise the ethical implications of this tradition – its tendency to spiritual narcissism, contempt for the less-evolved masses, Social Darwinism and Malthusianism, spiritual eugenics, and illiberal utopian politics—and suggest responses to these limitations.”
Found the Cosmic Defect, in Poimandres Fixating on the 7 Planets as Fate, and then Reaching Ogdoad AS IF Above Fate
copied to new page:
Here’s where all the scholars get messed up by Bad Writing by the ancients, ancients too vague and confusing and advanced but SLOPPY MYTHMAKING BY ANCIENTS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KupaADzq88g&t=2760s = 46:00 —
video title: Hermeticism and Ancient Astrology: The Corpus Hermeticum with Sam Block & Chris Brennan
ch: The Astrology Podcast Feb 16, 2022 series playlist: The History of Astrology has timestamps outline!
“A discussion about the ancient philosophy of Hermeticism and its relationship to Hellenistic astrology, with Sam Block and Chris Brennan.
Hermeticism is a religious, philosophical, and mystical movement that arose in Hellenistic Egypt around the first century, and is attributed to the teachings and practices of Hermes Trismegistus.
It represents a popular synthesis of a number of philosophical and religious trends that were popular during the Hellenistic period, including Stoicism, Platonism, native Egyptian religion, and astrology.
The majority of what is known about this philosophical or religious school survives in the Corpus Hermeticum and a handful of other writings from that time period.
During the course of the episode we talk about what is known about the Hermetic philosophical tradition, and how it relates to the technical tradition of astrology that arose during the same time period.
Sam is the author of a series on Hermeticism on his website, which I would recommend checking out for more information on this topic:
In Poimandres, fate = sphere 1-7; planets; then rise to the Ogoad which is here discussed AS IF Ogdoad is distinct from Fate.
In all other ancient writings, fate = Planets + fixed stars = spheres 1-7 & sphere 8; to get outside Fate, (the spirit, not the soul) must reach sphere 9, the Ennead (= integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking, which transcends naive possibilism-thinking & also transcends eternalism-thinking in the following senses:
Experience is always shaped as possibilism.
After a brief glimpse of eternalism & the actual source of control thoughts while in the peak window of the intense mystic altered state, the mind returns to the baseline state of possibilism experiencing.
The mind integrates possibilism/eternalism thinking.
Darth Wouter
Darth Voter – pronounced Darth Vader
/ end of copied to new page
Msgs Laughing at Houot the Mystic Enthusiast
Be a mature rational Science like me, not mentally ill irrational immature who’s unfit to do Rational Science Exploration like me 😑.
I was talking with inter-dimensional alien contact big discovery the other day while physically sailing the material world in my mind 😵💫🛸
Houot: “Science”-Branded Woo; Woo Sold as “Science”: Just Another Magical Thinking Construction – obv his secret breakthorugh is gonna be alien contact in his deliriant mind
If this is “Science”, this fantasy physical travel woo – SCIENCE-BRANDED WOO – count me out– too wooly-headed for me. Quantum Mysticism woo Physics technology from alien elves 👽🧝♂️
👽🧝♂️😵💫
Reacted 🚀 to “Yeah man, I would be down for a round house. ”
“when u remove religion, it sneaks back in thru the back door, malformed”
im assembling a Rational Psychonauts crew of Science Discoverer Explorers
SPIRITUAL CELEBRATION article branching message trees 3 models + gallery, with mentions of the grandest messages discoveries – only the top discovery in each image.
Only mention Panofsky-Huggins’ call to explain branching IF doing so maximizes spiritual celebration. definiitely in Biblio, NOT WORTH THE WORDCOUNT IN BODY:
I am ALREADY wasting precious wordcount in Biblio section citing art clown fools Panofsky & Huggins.
Article must be Grand, Special, exceptional — BOLDLY AND CONSISTENTLY.
subtele things like Day 4 left two mushrooms are considered branching b/c grid caps containing grid of mushroom-trees w/ L & R arms fruit of knowledge of possibilism and eternalism and possibilism whcih is another an name for tree of life immortality athantos realm of the immmortals elect spirit outside the fate stars cosmic 4D spacetime block, 4m fm
4D Spacetime Mysticism | Quantum Mysticism eternalism | possibilism branching | non-branching good | bad
tree of knowledge of good & bad spiritually must mean good cybernetics vs. bad cybernetics
Tree of knowledge of good cybernetics vs. bad cybernetics
Tree of knowledge of good cybernetics vs. bad cybernetics
personal control system
egoic personal control system …… name calling, characterize instead of “ego” label” — possibilism-premised/ possibilism-“based”, …. the mental model after maturation is a possibilism … qualified possibilism-thinking
qualified possibilism-thinking type personal control system egoic personal control system possibilism personal control system <– key words branching, steer {king steering in a tree} <– ought to say branch {king steer branch}
all driven by Dionysus actual king controller to be allied into by Dionysus, slave of Dionysus puppet imprisoned cosmic rock prison guards PLANETary ARCHONs, star = demiurge commander of the planet guards; outer = Aeons outside of fixed stars,
pleroma – ninth – sphere 9 – outside of the 4D spacetime block rock cosmic sphere of the fixed stars;
the concept of sphere of the fixed stars = the concept of {outside fixed stars}
package deal: both are together:
the concept of sphere of the fixed stars
the concept of {outside fixed stars}
{fixed stars}
{outside fixed stars}
{4D spacetime block}
{outside 4D spacetime block}
Ken Wilber “embrace, include, dis-identify or, clearly differentiate and identify egoic personal control system, {king steering in a BRANCHING! tree}, possibilism-premised monolithic, autonomous control
Aware of illusory experience foundation shaped as {king steering in a tree} of branching possibilities
{sphere of fixed stars} Implies {outside sphere of fixed stars} and {inside sphere of fixed stars} [planets]
internal levels within sphere of the fixed stars: 0-7.
0 -Earth – sublunar – earth water air fire 1- Moon 1 2 – Mercury 3 – Venus 4 – Sun 5 – Mars 6 -Jupiter 7 – Saturn
4D spacetime eternalism imply fse
integrate and transcend both – Ken Wilber embrace and includeTM: & disidentfy. the Possibilism mental model of time, self, and control and the eternalism mental model of time, self, and control
100% Fate eternalism block implies outside of 4D spacetime as surely as my 1991 ink drawing: worldline in 4D spacetime block head protrude, natural idea – outside the boundary. LIMIT IMPLIES TRANSCEND; a limit is just another word for {gate}.
Exercise: Transform Tim Freke’s Revised Spirituality Model Evolutionary Spirituality into Serving the Egodeath TheoryTM of Integrated Possibilism/eternalism
integrated possibilism/eternalism thinking
Hot Topic: How Branching and Non-Branching Depicts the Two Models of Possibility and Control
todo: publish the Important Existing Draft Pages
How Branching and Non-Branching Depicts the Two Models of Possibility and Control
To see your freewill thinking, is to cut branch. I see my freewill thinking — = I sacrifice child.
Hot Topic: Mission: Equip Cog Scientists for Psilo Realm Research
Hot Topic: Can We Have Stable Control on Psychedelics?
Can We Have Stable Control on Psychedelics? 1/3 of a 3-point page recently:
Soul Is Lower than Spirit (Comment on Psychedelics Today Stream at YouTube, Apr. 4, 2023)
In traditional astral ascent mysticism since Late Antiquity around 150 AD, the soul (psyche) rises to cosmic sphere 8 (the sphere of the fixed stars), and the spirit (pneuma) reaches sphere 9, beyond & outside the sphere of stars.
In the Psilocybin state (loose cognitive association), the soul (psyche) experiences Fate/ Necessity/ no-free-will/ puppethood/ eternalism.
After you are reshaped to accommodate this, the spirit/ pneuma reaches beyond Fate to transcendent freewill.
Why did ancients split lower soul-psyche vs higher spirit-pneuma?
Evidently to differentiate affirming heimarmene/ Fate/ eternalism/ no-free-will/ puppethood, vs. transcending that in some way, in some sense.
I say the word ‘God’ in my psy church group – have to be bold and confident to do that, but people are following my meaning well, that way.
Not sure if people after late antiquity differentiate between lower “soul” vs. higher “spirit”.
It could be a useful distinction, with room to grow upward.
Yugler joined our book club final session for the book:
Psychedelics and the Soul: A Mythic Guide to Psychedelic Healing, Depth Psychology, and Cultural Repair Simon Yugler, Oct. 2024
Free Will Came from Greco-Roman Philosophy (Stoicism), integrated into Christianity
That fits with a Stoicism & Paul book I was reading maybe 2001 & 2011. I got the book when it was new, less than 1 year, in April 2001, just before starting Egodeath Yahoo Group June 2001.
“This book seeks to do for the study of Paul and Stoicism what E. P. Sanders did for Paul and Judaism.
“Instead of making a brick-by-brick analysis, Troels Engberg Pedersen provides the first comprehensive building-to-building comparison of how the two religious/philosophical systems functioned.
“The book moves through the major letters of Paul (e.g., Philippians, Galatians, and Romans), carefully documenting Paul’s indebtedness to Stoic thought.”
His follow-up book is on Paul and Self and Cosmology.
Web Search: Did Christianity invent free will? No, Greco-Roman Stoicism Did
“Pre-Christian Roots: The idea of human agency and the ability to choose, which is central to the concept of free will, can be found in ancient Greek and Roman philosophy, particularly in Stoicism, which emphasizes individual responsibility and the ability to act according to one’s own will.”
“Stoicism’s Influence:Michael Frede, a leading scholar on free will in antiquity, argues that the concept of free will, along with the language to express it, came to Christianity mainly from Stoicism.”
“Academic views “The study of free will in the ancient world: the Bible does not explicitly address free will.
“The leading scholar on the subject of free will in antiquity, Michael Frede, observed that “freedom and free will cannot be found in either the Septuagint or the New Testament and must have come to the Christians mainly from Stoicism.”
“Frede could not find either the language of free will nor even any assumption of it in the New Testament or the Greek Old Testament.
“The early Church fathers most certainly developed their doctrine of free will from the pagans.” — Chris Brennan BTFO’d; me & Justin Sledge vindicated (as Brennan conceded: within paganism and within Christianity, there was a shift from Fate to transcending Fate, including eventually affirming freewill.)
“Another Oxford scholar, Dr. Alister McGrath, concurs entirely with Frede,
“The term ‘free will’ is not biblical, but derives from Stoicism.
“It was introduced into Western Christianity by the second-century theologian Tertullian.”
“Paul firmly believed in divine determination as an intrinsic part of his whole conception of God.””
Stoicism = The Denial of Freewill, and the Source of Creating the Concept of Free Will?? what??
How come “stoicism” means no-free-will and also means the source of inventing freewill? total contradiction.
The History of Hyper-Eternalism
Classical Antiquity Fate is the case. psychedelic eternalism = terminate in heimarmene/ eternalism. Freewill concept is absent.
Late Antiquity Sort of transcend fate. fate is the case, but our special brand of religion lifts your spirit portion above it. Fate is the case more than freewill is the case.
Medieval Christendom Fate is not the case; freewill is the case. Freewill is the case more than fate is the case.
Modernity Attitude reported by Chris Brennan: freewill is taken for granted. Blotter Rock, hardline Metal, Hard Psych: Tragic revelation report of experiencing no-free-will. (no follow-through w/ “transcend eternalism”) Fate concept is absent.
Post-Modernity At EgodeathTheory.WordPress.com, on April 4, 2025, Cybermonk rediscovered the idea of hyper-eternalism, which was the beginning of our new era in the history of Determinism. Fate is the case more than freewill is the case.
Basic Eternalism Thinking
basic eternalism-thinking be-t
qualified possibilism-thinking
naive possibilism-thinking
basic eternalism-thinking
hyper-eternalism
qualified possibilism-thinking = hyper-eternalism
Crop by Michael Hoffman
stand on left foot – naive possibilism-thinking
stand on right foot – basic eternalism-thinking — I like that phrase, make keyboard shortcut. be-t
stand no foot [hang tree, float] – qualified possibilism-thinking aka hyper-eternalism.
When around Nov. NOV 2020 – JAN 2021, I first looked at the floating sage, I thought maybe “high on cannabis?” It was hard to figure out the intended reading.
The first key (as late as late 2024 I fully realized): HE IS GESTURING/ LOOKING AT guy HANGING in TREE;
Floating sage is linked to guy hanging in tree.
f134 (row 2 R + row 1 L) is a puzzle instructive: given that {stand on left foot} = naive possibilism-thinking; or = possibilism-thinking in general; & given that {stand on right foot} = basic eternalism-thinking , or eternalism-thinking in general That’s the puzzle setup. Then: Explain / interpret stablity of the guy hanging in tree. intermediary tip/hint: the guy sitting in tree.
Beginner Q: row 2 R: stand on left foot & stand on right foot. Ans: naive possibilism-thinking , basic eternalism-thinking.
Advanced Q: row 2 r: flaoting sage, and hang in tree.
Intermediate Q to assist the above: guy sitting in tree.
stand L foot, stand R foot. Beginning students are expected to answer this.
sitting balancing on R hand/foot. Intermed. students are expected to answer this. also sitting is: row 2 middle: the sitting, self-threatening psalter viewer.
hang in tree & floating sage. Advanced students are expected to answer this.
f134 has various degrees of puzzle difficultty instructional. distinct levels of diffcuulty are demo’d/ deve’d / exercised by Eadwine THE TEACHER OF RIGHTEOUS BALANCE.
narrow & exclusive basic concepts:
possibilism-thinking , naive possibilism-thinking
eternalism-thinking , basic eternalism-thinking
broad, nuanced, inclusive concepts:
qualified possibilism-thinking
hyper-eternalism
“eternalism-thinking” is ambig: hardline 1-sided, or, in the comprehensive sense that emph possibilism-thinking / virtual freewill? I hated this hierarchy:
eternalism meaning hardline 1-sdied eternalism meaning mature inclusive balance including principled, integratred virtual freewill. eternalism meaning both of those definitions together. TOO OVERLOADED! SOLUTION: “basic eternalism” meaning hardline simple basic 1-sided eternalism, not meaning the mature full-featured end result mental model.
Saturn, sphere 7, gate to sphere of the fixed stars, the lower personal control system is pleading in Psilocybin loose cognition state, {blade} vulnerability in that state; sacrifice child thinking in light of eternalism. {shadow dragon monster} pulls chariot of Saturnus. pay toll to pass through guarded gate: price: child thinking.
two doors are at 23 deg. angle = celestial cross = transcend sphere 8 fixed stars, lifted up by Christ to sphere 9 the Pleroma, empyrian, dwelling place of all the Elect.
Hot Topic: Tim Freke Rejecting “Nonduality/ Unity/ Oneness”, “Eliminate the Ego”, and “Only Consciousness Exists”
That Late-in-Life Major Adjustment of Freke’s Theory of Spirituality Is Like the Egodeath theory moving from brute asserting of eternalism to focusing on transcending eternalism; “hyper-eternalism”
Crop by Michael Hoffman. f134 row 1 LCrop by Michael Hoffman. f134 row 2 R
The 3 guys in f134 row 2 R by the Cubensis dispensary
floating guy – qualified possibilism-thinking; hyper-eternalism (emphasis developed through March 2025; starting in earnest April 3, 2025) – he points to Eadwine’s leg-hanging mushroom tree image in the Great Canterbury Psalter
Floating guy points to & looks at hanging guy. map row 2 R to row 1 L.
Hot Topic: Confirm “Pleroma” = cosmic sphere 9 = precession of the equinoxes = transcend eternalism
precession of the equinoxes pote
Idea for Image for top of this page
une image comme mon dessin à l’encre de 1991 d’un serpent avec la tête au-delà de l’univers du bloc disant « liberté »
Michael Hoffman, ~1991, ink brush in blank art book
got it: pilgrim that I just got today – perfect!
avec l’arbre YI “pilgrim stars woodcut Flammarion engraving.jpeg” 296 KB 7:41 pm Apr. 3, 2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammarion_engraving Gravure sur bois d’un artiste inconnu. Sa première apparition documentée se trouve dans l’ouvrage L’Atmosphère: Météorologie Populaire, publié en 1888 par l’astronome français Camille Flammarion.
avec l’arbre YI
Features:
Her head is above sphere of the fixed stars.
Instead of just 1 sphere above sphere of the fixed stars, puffed up to as tall above sphere of the fixed stars as the 7 planet spheres below sphere of the fixed stars.
Sa première apparition documentée se trouve dans l’ouvrage L’Atmosphère: Météorologie Populaire, publié en 1888 par l’astronome français Camille Flammarion.
Hot Topic: What Specifically Are People Most Afraid of in the Altered State?
Link to “Guides” article/pages. Explain why advise us to stand on right foot not stand on left foot.
My project is to explain specifically what the great fear is of; {shadow dragon monster}. I’ll make sure i have a url to directly focus on that answer/topic. experience of the threat of catastrophic loss of control. solution: realize we’re always secretly dependent on higher level of control, or underlying hidden level. greek myth = analogies for this.
Someone specifically asked in psychedelic church book club just now: “I need to know what there is to be afraid of in bad trips.” I do have a page started to focus speciially on that .
Transpersonal POV: the divine initiates you ingesting. pulls you up. No personal guilt/ initiative. The god invites his followers to the god’s banquet as hosts to guests.
Houot As a Muddle-Headed Mystic that He Insults
Irony: Houot insults mysticism but pushes the equivalent: entities, angels/ supernatural / demons / spirits.
Houot imports his own low-grade caricature of “Science” vs. his low-grade caricature of “Mysticism”.
Self-contradictions; deconstruct Houot.
Houot p. __ withholds a grand milestone. i bet it’s alien entities. See idea development p. 26.
I am speaking w/ same insulting, disrespectful tone as Houot:
We welcome our superstitious, irrational, immature, mentally ill, religious guest who imagines space alien entities encountered in his mind.
Houot uses an alien strange vocabulary that I don’t employ.
Houot is importing a pop, low-quality “science vs. religion” debate with a dubiously conceived pair of positions: “secular”, “sacred” – i NEVER use those terms, B.S.E.E. STEM approach.
Poor Quality Phenomenology from Houot’s Sources
Sometone asked about whether “Phen’y” is valuable, as Houot’s Rise of the Psychonaut claims.
Certain cognitive phenomenology are the most interesting dynamics, about levels of control. That dynamic is not covered by Houot. This article is basic toward that topic (providing foundation leading toward treating that topic).
summarize Egodeath theory’s model of mental model transformation — direct explanatory framework.
summarize the art genre of mushroom-trees ; {mushrooms}, {branching}, {handedness}, and {stability} motifs – specialty subset within the Mytheme theory.
map between those – the Mytheme theory
branching-message mushroom trees article for the Journal of Psychedelic Studies – remove text, add recent pic from Cant Cath of Lot wife b/c the 4 pics i got all have YI trees.
Hot Topic: Tim Freke Disproves “Get Rid of Ego”, & “Nonduality”, in Latest Rev of “Evolutionary Spir’y”
Psychedelic church Book club error: someone said “get rid of ego”. a few minutes ago.
Tim Freke recent revisions is correct here, IT IS WRONG TO “GET RID OF EGO”; during peak state you use egoic personal control system, w/ modified understanding of its foundation.
Don’t “rely” on egoic autonomous control; use egoic personal control system, don’t “get rid of” the egoic personal control system.
Because you have done this thing – because you Abr have not withheld Isaac, your only, beloved son, Isaac is fertile into the future AND brought by God to Transcendent Knowledge.
Hot Topic: Hyper-Eternalism (More Like, Hyper Marketing Posturing)
Hyper Sales Pressure Talking Out of Both Sides of Mouth Like “sphere 8 BAD b/c FATE fixed stars, but Ogdoad GOOD b/c “beyond the fate-ruled cosmos” sphere 7 Saturn”.
The Chaos Cosmos Model
The chaos model from Hanegraaff-Davidson Chaos Cosmos Model aka Yaldabaoth Hanegraaff
Wouter “Star Destroyer” Hanegraaff
Cosmic Schizophrenia
Fixed stars are BAD b/c Fate, they are in sphere 8.
The Ogdoad is GOOD b/c it is beyond Fate.
Ogdoad is the sphere above sphere 7 Saturn, ie, sphere 8.
💥 COSMIC CONTRADICTION – Cosmic Schizophrenia of Hanegraaff & Davidson
Latter title is per David Litwa – this superior title that he uses in his book is a good sign that his book might be superior comprehension to prove that I am right about everything in the cosmos & beyond the cosmos.
Ordered today:
Hermetica I: The Corpus Hermeticum, Asclepius, and Nag Hammadi Hermetica Ordered as a Path of Initiation M. David Litwa, Jan. 2, 2025
“The Hermetic corpus is a spiritual and intellectual treasure stemming from ancient Egyptian sages who could write and think in Greek.
“Since the Renaissance, this corpus has appeared in an order that does not fit the path of spiritual initiation suggested by the corpus itself.
“The present edition reorders the corpus—including the Latin Asclepius and the Nag Hammadi Hermetica—into four progressing parts: introductory tractates, general discourses, detailed discourses, and revelatory discourses.
“A short spiritual commentary follows each tractate.
“The book is written for all lovers of the Hermetica, but in particular for those who are willing, in some sense, to join the way of immortality.”
Cosmology in Antiquity Rosemary Wright, 1995 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0415121833 — Part of: Sciences of Antiquity (9 books) “Examines the cosmological theories of the `natural philosophers’ from Thales, Anaximander and Anaximenes to Plato, the Stoics and the NeoPlatonists. Also discusses and emphasizes the importance of Babylonian and Egyptian forerunners.”
Chapter 1 – INTRODUCTION
Chapter 2 – A SURVEY OF COSMOLOGICAL TEXTS
Chapter 3 – MODELS, MYTHS AND METAPHORS
Chapter 4 – MACROCOSM AND MICROCOSM
Chapter 5 – CHAOS AND COSMOGONY
Chapter 6 – ELEMENTS AND MATTER
Chapter 7 – AIR, AITHER AND ASTRA
Chapter 8 – TIME AND ETERNITY
Chapter 9 – THE MATHEMATICAL BASES OF GREEK COSMOLOGY
Chapter 10 – THE COSMOS AND GOD
Blurb at Rout site:
“The popularity of Stephen Hawking’s work has put cosmology back in the public eye.
“The question of how the universe began, and why it hangs together, still puzzles scientists.
“Their puzzlement began two and a half thousand years ago when Greek philosophers first ‘looked up at the sky and formed a theory of everything.’
“Though their solutions are little credited today, the questions remain fresh.
“The early Greek thinkers struggled to come to terms with and explain the totality of their surroundings; to identitify an original substance from which the universe was compounded; and to reconcile the presence of balance and proportion with the apparent disorder of the universe.
“Rosemary Wright examines the cosmological theories of the `natural philosophers’ from Thales, Anaximander and Anaximenes to Plato, the Stoics and the NeoPlatonists.
“The importance of Babylonian and Egyptian forerunners is emphasised.
“a comprehensive introduction to the cosmological thought of antiquity, the first such survey since Neugebauer’s work of 1962[?]. “
Check Wouter “Star Destroyer” Hanegraaff: Who wrote that the highest level of Fate is sphere 7 Saturn rather than sphere 8 Ogdoad fixed stars as Wouter Hanegraaff falsely claims, confusing himself?
As said at start, demons are swinging the audio level all over the place.
Contents:
Intro
The Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Hyper-Eternalism
Egodeath Theory Emphasizing Qualified Possibilism Instead of Eternalism: “Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Hyper-Eternalism“
Beginner Possibilism Guy; Beginner Eternalism Guy; Advanced Hyper-Eternalism Guy
1997 Psyche Level (Soul Level) version of the Egodeath theory = 2-level; end-state = brute eternalism; You must agree with me that no-free-will is the case; you must conduct all your thinking in a no-free-will way
2025 Pneuma/Spirit version of the Egodeath theory = 3-level; end-state = hyper-eternalism; You must agree with me that no-free-will is the case merely at the underlying level and must be affirmed/ relied on in the altered state but, in practice, you always conduct all your thinking in a free-will looking way; experience power of steering in branching tree, as if {king steering in a tree} even though you know that underlying reality is {snake frozen in rock}
Does Middle Platonism have an aspect of hyper-heimarmene? todo: confirm
Confirmed Astral Ascent Mysticism per Egodeath Theory: Name of hyper-eternalism sphere (beyond eternalism) is Pleroma, = precession of the equinoxes
Sledge Video “What is the Demiurge? Pt 4 Why the Demiurge is Necessary for Salvation”
“Pneumatic”, “Spiritual”, Hyper-Transcendent Version of Egodeath Theory = Accurate Useful Description of Actual Resulting Mental Model = Qualified Possibilism, More than Brute/ Simple Eternalism
Search Web: pleroma cosmic heimarmene
The Egodeath Theory Had Religious Re-Marketing Rebirth During March 2025 Due to Prepping to Communicate it to my Psychedelic Church
Factors that caused me to shift emphasis/ framing of the Egodeath theory from “You end up with Eternalism” to “You end up with Qualified Possibilism” in March 2025; Well-Formed Transcendent “Compatibilism“
Valentinus: Unsheathed Sword of Intelligence (Litwa, Feb. 2025)
h3 “On Self-control” fragment, Now Known to be by Valentinus. Litwa: Valentinus Unsheathed “On Self-control” book
It Was DMT. 😑
Bullsh!t Is Bullsh!t: False Tepidness Is Hardly Truer than False Denial of Entheogens
“We Figured Out How Hermetists Had Intense Altered States: Through Entheogenic Practices in the Wide Sense! ” – Wouter Hanegraaff & Justin Sledge, Posturing Academics
“We Figured Out How Hermetists Had Intense Altered States: Through Non-Drug Entheogens! ” – Wouter Hanegraaff & Justin Sledge, Posturing Academics
From Total Denial to Insistent Assertion Along with Strenuous Minimizing of Entheogens: “I boldly insist that ancients definitely used entheogenic practices (but it was almost always non-drug entheogenic practices)” – Countersignal Yourself Harder
Desc from Video
Featured places
Embassy of the Free Mind
Museum
Quick paste from idea development page 26: Related Comments
My Wussy Half-Truth in 1997 like the traditional methods of the mystics are non-drug entheogens
“Dizzy Doesn’t Count”
keyboard shortcut for my 2004 “Entheogenic Esotericism” post
When You Think of Psychedelics Extremism, Think Egodeath theory
Video Thumbnail: He’s holding no-free-will/ heimarmene/ Fatedness/ eternalism in his hand and looking at it from outside of it, seeing the uncontrollable source of control-thoughts, from the mature {immortal} POV; hyper-eternalism aka qualified possibilism-thinking.
— Michael Hoffman, the theory of psychedelic eternalism
what was that –^
The Name of the Theory, and the descriptive elaborative sentence to disambig it
theory of psychedelic eternalism
means theory of psychedelic hyper-eternalism ; qualified possibilism-thinking; virtual freewill; knowing that at the underlying level = eternalism though the shape of experience and personal control system is always:
literalist ordinary-state possibilism with autonomous control lopac
The mind learns to differentiate child vs adult thinking, and rely on adult thinking, not rely on child thinking. We have then two minds: higher rider mind, lower donkey mind.
The lower, personal mind thinks as if it’s a monolithic, autonomous control agent
The higher, transpersonal mind knows that the lower mind is actually put forth from the uncontrollable source of control-thoughts, frozen in future 4D block time
4D block spacetime fbs
Which Came First: Infinitely better than “CybTrans.com” domain name Egodeath.com, or, calling it “Egodeath theory” eg 1996/1997? when did I first write “Egodeath theory”? Ans: Not in 1997; by 2001 June.
Apparently Erik Davis asked me in 2001 about the theory. News to me.
“The Cybernetic Theory of Ego Transcendence” [descriptive, except missing ‘eternalism’ & ‘psychedelic’] (1988) = “the Egodeath theory” (2001?)
the [Cybernetic + Psychedelic + Eternalism] Theory of Ego Transcendence
the [Analogy + Cybernetic + Psychedelic + Eternalism] Theory of X
the [Analogy Psychedelic Eternalism Cybernetic] Theory of X
the [Analogy Psychedelic Eternalism Cybernetic] Theory
The Analogy Psychedelic Eternalism Cybernetics Theory
– LAST WORD TO DELETE = ? DELETE 1 WORD:
Sort 4 key words in order , most important first:
Analogy – not important for Core, only for periph application & history & myth.
Psychedelic – crucial to emphasize; nothing w/o this; everyone tries to shut out, do not allow.
Cybernetic – it’s a given, since we are control agents
Eternalism – CRUCIALLY DISTINCITVE
THAT’S Wouter Hanegraaff They
That’s why recently I selttled on short form “theory of psychedelic eternalism”.
it is a theory.
this is the brand name of a theory.
the last descriptors to delete, the very most distcintive precious crucial differentiattors, are not ‘analogy’ or ‘cybernetics’, but: eternalism + psychedelics. thus:
theory of psychedelic eternalism
so:
Egodeath theory = theory of psychedelic eternalism
thus
Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism
that is brand name + 2 crutical key word descriptors. it’s more like a Foo Bar theory OF ego death. ie:
the possibilism experiential mode
the Psychedelic Eternalism Theory of Egodeath <– order interesting = the Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism
the theory that egodeath is really about psychedelic eternalism
psychedelic eternalism pe
Psilocybin esotericism p-e
p-e Psilocybin esotericism Psychedelic Eternalism Theory of Myth
damn it what is keyboard shortcut for “psychedelic eternamlism”??
but it doesn’t NAME the theory! “This is a philosophy or theory of [insert: of what?]
the psychological phenomenon of mystic ego death“
verbose description, good. but, no named theory. POOR BRANDING. DAMN IT, IT NEVER NAMES THE THEORY!!
IT DOESN’T NAME THE TWO HALVES, IT SIMPLY REJECTS THE HISTORY/ENTH / the Mytheme theory HALF, SAYING THE CORE WOULD be too big if the history/ entheogens/ the Mytheme theory content were included in the core. stupid. should have said:
The Foo Bar Theory, including:
Core theory cybernetics yada
history/ myth / the Mytheme theory / ahistoricity / entheogens hsitory yada theory
“Importing foreign and historical elements into the core of this Theory would cause the misguidedness of those elements to be inherited as well, making the core overly complex. This new core theory of enlightenment is not a history of ideas about enlightenment, but an essential framework for a mental model of spacetime and self-control. It is a type of metaphysical system, with special emphasis on self-control cybernetics.” — https://web.archive.org/web/19970214094113/http://www.cybtrans.com/philosph/p173.htm
Several problems that I didn’t perceive or clearly think about in 1997:
the brand name of the whole theory;
the name of the core theory portion;
” periph “.
monolithic, autonomous control agent maca
literalist ordinary-state possibilism with monolithic, autonomous control lopmac
analogical psychedelic eternalism
ape2c
analogical psychedelic eternalism dependence aped
analogical psychedelic eternalism with 2-level, dependent control ape2dc
2-level, dependent control 2ldc
analogical psychedelic eternalism ape
analogical psychedelic eternalism with 2-level control ape2
from {Amanita, Christianity, surface form, low esotericism} to {Psilocybin, Greek + Christian, cognitive effects, high esotericism} ap
The Theory of Psychedelic Hyper-Eternalism
The Theory of Psychedelic (Hyper-) Eternalism
what do I want to highlight at lowest level of detail; ie at max zoom out level?
what then is the very next thing? In concept-label or theory-brand label… is it a trademark name of a theory, or, a description specifier characterization?
theory of psychedelic eternalism tope
theory of psychedelic (hyper-)eternalism
theory of psychedelic hyper-eternalism tph <– tphe tophe
Psychedelic Hyper-Eternalism
The Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Eternalism
(winner 🏆 b/c clarity at this concise level) [EDTPE]
analogical psychedelic eternalism with 2-level, dependent control ape2dc
analogical psychedelic eternalism with 2-level control ape2
analogical psychedelic eternalism dependence aped This is a 4-term descriptor from which it is possible to construct the entire Egodeath theory.
the complem term is:
literalist ordinary-state possibilism with autonomous control –> literalist ordinary-state possibilism autonomomy lopa literalist ordinary-state possibilism autonomomy
thus “aped vs. lopa“.
“analogical psychedelic eternalism dependence” vs. “literalist ordinary-state possibilism autonomomy” avl “analogical psychedelic eternalism dependence” vs. “literalist ordinary-state possibilism autonomomy”
You can construct the entire theory from just the most key terms: theory of psychedelic eternalism tope
theory of what? of the “psychedelic eternalism” theory of myth petm
a theory of: “psychedelic eternalism” theory of myth the “psychedelic eternalism” theory of myth
qualified freewill thinking
The Theory of Psychedelic Eternalism
(winner 🏆🏆 b/c clarity at this concise level) [TOPE]
theory of psychedelic eternalism tope
It is clarifying to say:
Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism — succinct, emphasize the simple thing.
Do not — in short name — emph the complex thing, “qualified possibilism-thinking” – too indirect, roundabout.
The Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Hyper-Eternalism
The Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Eternalism (which is Hyper-Eternalism, ie Qualified Possibilism)
The Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Possibilism [too much marketing lie??]
Despite my analysis, the best title feels:
Egodeath Theory Emphasizing Qualified Possibilism Instead of Eternalism: “Egodeath Theory of Psychedelic Hyper-Eternalism“
Beginner Possibilism Guy; Beginner Eternalism Guy; Advanced Hyper-Eternalism Guy
Crop by Michael Hoffman
picture of the week
Difficulty 1 of 10: L leg = naive possibilism-thinking; R leg = brute eternalism-thinking
That’s nice. You got that. Ok, next, explain:
Difficulty 10 of 10: no leg indicated = hyper-eternalism
1997 Psyche Level (Soul Level) version of the Egodeath theory = 2-level; end-state = brute eternalism; You must agree with me that no-free-will is the case; you must conduct all your thinking in a no-free-will way
2025 Pneuma/Spirit version of the Egodeath theory = 3-level; end-state = hyper-eternalism; You must agree with me that no-free-will is the case merely at the underlying level and must be affirmed/ relied on in the altered state but, in practice, you always conduct all your thinking in a free-will looking way; experience power of steering in branching tree, as if {king steering in a tree} even though you know that underlying reality is {snake frozen in rock}
I really feel that March 2025, the Egodeath theory matured in its Marketing framing positioning: from brute emphasis on “eternalism is the case”,
Certainly, I have been developing 3-phase model since 2000 when Coraxo pointed out that my 1997 2-level model (etrmin terminating in heimarmene) is incapable of discussing Gnosticism. I immediately recognized that a as a widespread problem characteristic of Late Antiquity.
Does Middle Platonism have an aspect of hyper-heimarmene? todo: confirm
{king steering in a tree} kst
Advanced the Egodeath theory : you always use egoic personal control system (so, possibilism); you’re always in the tightcog ordinary state (so, possibilism). gestures to the advanced puzzle: row 1, Eadwine’s leg-hanging mushroom tree image in the Great Canterbury Psalter: evaluate upside down
Confirmed Astral Ascent Mysticism per Egodeath Theory: Name of hyper-eternalism sphere (beyond eternalism) is Pleroma, = precession of the equinoxes
Sledge new Demiurge 4 vid says Pleroma is a hermetic name of the 9th cosmic sphere; the Ennead, above eternalism sphere 8 (sphere of the fixed stars).
Vid name: “What is the Demiurge? Pt 4 Why the Demiurge is Necessary for Salvation” March 28, 2025 YouTube channel: ESOTERICA – Dr. Justin Sledge 836K subscribers 47,798 views
“Gnosticism is often thought to teach that the creator of the cosmos is a demonic entity known as the Demiurge. However, this sharply dualistic teaching isn’t the only Gnostic voice. Valentinus taught that the Demiurge, while ignorant, was a necessary aspect of salvation. Indeed, even the Demiurge would achieve psychic redemption according to this school of Gnosticism. Let’s explore the Valentinian conception of the Demiurge, one that upends both ancient and contemporary stereotypes about Gnosticism.
the demiurge (Yaldabaoth) = Fate = sphere 8. The soul; the psyche rises to this level, max. Highest sphere of the cosmos.
the aeons? nous? the Pleroma = sphere 9, above Fate. The pneuma; the spirit, rises to this level. Hyper-eternalism. hyper-cosmic. Hyper-heimarmene. Above/outside the 4D spacetime block. outside 4D spacetime; outside/above 4D spacetime eternalism.
4D spacetime block fdsb
4D spacetime eternalism fdse
outside/above the 4D spacetime rock
The Spiritual Egodeath Theory edtpem etpem etpem psychedelic eternalism transformation from possibilism to eternalismm Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism e t p e
the Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism etpe the Egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism
the spiritual egodeath theory of psychedelic eternalism
the egodeath theory of spiritual psychedelic eternalism
but “spiritual” is no good, you have to know the ancient 3-tier system body/ soul or psyche / spirit or pneuma — which I wrote up in 2001 per E Pagels book reviews.
2000, I realized you can express “transcend eternalism” ie 3-phase model — yet, I continued emph’g “terminate at eternalism” like {red guy} during 2000-2024.
While I DEVELOPED the model to explain {sage} on right during 2000-2024, I still marketed “Egodeath theory terminates in eternalism; eternalism is the case”.
Recent studying mushroom inspired me that in fact I always remain emphatically qualified possibilism-thinking even during peak window.
I held that at arms’ length, twice, recently.
You KEEP egoic personal control system , but you SEE it and STEP OUTSIDE IT in awareness.
It’s “that thing”. “that system over there”.
“I see my egoic personal control system down there.”
“I am watching my egoic personal control system over there.”
Crop by Michael Hoffman
“Pneumatic”, “Spiritual”, Hyper-Transcendent Version of Egodeath Theory = Accurate Useful Description of Actual Resulting Mental Model = Qualified Possibilism, More than Brute/ Simple Eternalism
Aim to Look Very Like the Pre/Trans Fallacy; Chop Wood Carry Water, but Modified Foundation Can Endure Psilocybin Loose Cognitive Hyper-Awareness/ Transcendent Awareness Perception Capability Endurant
“divine perfection known as the Pleroma, a realm of heavenly beings or aeons“
“he Gnostic insistence that a species of esoteric knowledge and self-control are the keys to transcending the flawed [= eternalism] creation of the demiourgos.
“The first, pre-cosmic creations of the demiourgos are the archons (“rulers”), which are spirits typically associated with the seven Ptolemaic planets and the sphere of fixed stars.
[only demiurge directly = fixed stars — demiurge & archons are subsets within fatedness / eternalism]
“The rule [external control over your thoughts] of the demiourgos [sphere 8 fixed stars] and the archons [sphere 1-7 planets] is frequently called by the Gnostics heimarmene (“fate“)”
“and is often conceived of as cruel, tyrannical and oppressive in the extreme.
“This is so because these archons are the creations of a fallen, ignorant and lesser “god,” whose creation is merely a flawed shadow copy of the Pleroma [sphere 9: precession of equinoxes; above fate-sphere of fixed stars]:”
The Egodeath Theory Had Religious Re-Marketing Rebirth During March 2025 Due to Prepping to Communicate it to my Psychedelic Church
A stunted tale is “end up at eternalism, the end.”
True characterization of what you end up with: qualified possibilism-thinking.
Also a key influence (forcing a change of thinking) while studying mushrooms Jan-Feb 2025: I had unclean lips, there is no way to say “here is how YOU SHOULD think”, w/o impliying egoic mental model.
I made progress in Jan/Mar 2025 re: mytheme decoding {donkey w/ rider on path} incl Entry Jeru.
Factors that caused me to shift emphasis/ framing of the Egodeath theory from “You end up with Eternalism” to “You end up with Qualified Possibilism” in March 2025; Well-Formed Transcendent “Compatibilism“
The Egodeath theory doesn’t give you eternalism (unless you alter def’n of that word).
The Egodeath theory gives you transcendence of eternalism. Or “transcendent eternalism” or “hyper-eternalism”.
The Egodeath theory does NOT give you naive possibilism.
I’m a believer in eternalism b/c that is required to have stable control in loose cognition.
Relational eternalism.
Similar to the higher god, vs. the demiurge.
Not sure ATM how map this section to that gnostic contrast…. demiurge ~= false egoic personal control system.
The Egodeath theory removes naive possibilism.
Egodeath theory replaces naive possibilism by qualified possibilism (including knowing that the underlying level = eternalism).
A better rep’n is “end up w/ best type of , ultimate type of Compatibilism”
Red Youth 1997: eternalism is the case!
Coraxo 2000: your model can’t describe Gnosticism.
I developed the 3-phase model 2003-Feb 2025.
Feb 2023, when invited to present the Egodeath theory, realized it will not fly, to describe Transcendent Knowledge = terminate at eternalism. that is not an accuate characterization, unless you redefine ‘eternalism’ to emphasize re-formed possibilism-thinking; qualified possibilism-thinking.
You end up MORE with qualified possibilism-thinking, than with eternalism-thinking or “qualified eternalism-thinking”.
You end up w/ ability to stable personal control system during Psilocybin loose cognition.
Justin Sledge influenced me in March hearing him argue that Transcendent Knowledge isn’t worth the trouble b/c chop wood carry water;
“Transcendent Knowledge DOESN’T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE” —
except, the personal control system gains the ability to endure the Psilocybin, loose cognitive state.
Valentinus: Unsheathed Sword of Intelligence (Litwa, Feb. 2025)
“On Self-control” fragment, Now Known to be by Valentinus. Litwa: Valentinus Unsheathed “On Self-control” book
{unsheathing blade} if L finger closer to the ground. unstable control. unstable control. possibilism-thinking.
{sheathing blade} if R finger closer to the ground. stable control. eternalism-thinking.
Valentinus: Unsheathed Sword of Intelligence M. David Litwa, February 5, 2025
Blurb:
“This book studies the life and thought of Valentinus using his genuine fragments.
“After translating the fragments and introducing Valentinus’ life, it reorders the fragments and segues into a line-by-line spiritual and historical commentary:”
Valentinus Sees a Vision (Fragment 7)
Summer Harvest (Fragment 8)
Evil Angels and the God Human (Fragment 1)
The Image and the Name (Fragment 5)
You Are Deathless! (Fragment 4) {immortal} = mature.
The Pure in Heart (Fragment 2)
On Self-control (Containing Fragment 3)
The Truth is Everywhere (Fragment 6)
“This volume is the first to integrate the discovery that Valentinus wrote the letter On Self-control (formerly attributed to Basil of Caesarea).
“It closes with an argument that Valentinus wrote the Gospel of Truth.”
Litwa’s new book on Valentinus fragments, the first time “On Self-control” was included & attributed.
It Was DMT. 😑
Sledge at 1:20:00:
“every episode i do, i get comments “It was DMT. 😑”
Sledge’s commenters are correct: IT WAS DMT.
I am not tired of scholars denying entheogens altogether; I am tired of scholars making a false call for “balance”, as if heavy breathing is sufficient for mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism.
The maximal entheogen theory of religion (Michael Hoffman 2002 & 2003, the Egodeath Yahoo Group) sees entheogens everywhere because:
They were everywhere.
No method other than entheogens is sufficient for mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism.
I equate the false call for “balance” and “middle position avoiding extremes” with Browns’ betting everything on Walburga not being Amanita, and then botching the negative interp. Compounded by displaying the art so as to assert Amanita, while wording in roundabout way to assert not Amanita. Posturing to other scholars, “we are in the club of moderates.”
The Egodeath theory is NOT in that club and REJECTS that club.
Ardent Advocates 1, False Moderates 0
4-error penalty b/c two authors, two publications, repeating same elementary false interp.
I reject and hate the Moderate aka Minimal entheogen theory of religion.
The plague of 2000: “never entheogens in our religion history.”
The plague of 2025: “above all, we must avoid overstating how much entheogens in our religion history.” F that! It was nothing but entheogens. Any religion lacking entheogens isn’t real religion. Real religion is none other than entheogens.
take my keyboard shortcut a e e e for test drive:
“Authentic esotericism is entheogenic esotericism. Entheogens are the key to esotericism. This is the simplest possible theory of esotericism, and the most natural, the least contrived and strained. Theories of esotericism that are not based on entheogens suffer from the problem of grandiose verbiage, unmet promises and claims, chronic vagueness, excuses for lack of potent and prompt efficacy, and no ability to deliver the experiences which are talked about. Drug-free esotericism doesn’t work; it is not effectively ergonomic.” – Michael Hoffman, Egodeath Yahoo Group, June 12, 2004
Wouter Hanegraaff is now known to definitely have read my 2004 title/posting “Entheogenic Esotericism” written 8 years before his 2012 keynote of same name.
His email reply yesterdayish said re that point and one other: thank you for the info”
I also pointed him to my good new page explaining why he MUST be wrong writing “the Ogdoad above heimarmene”.
“Whether the fixed stars should be included [with Saturn, sphere 7] or should rather be associated with the Ogdoad [sphere 8] remains an open question for me.” – p. 294, footnote 114, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022 114
My victory & credibility-boost re: placing fixed stars in sphere 8 (highest Fate level, reborn into from Saturn sphere 7) bolsters my bold claim & sound argument that non-drug entheogens = academic bullsh!t. that’s just a retreating form – they’re losing ground – of sheer denial.
Wouter Hanegraaff says: academics were wrong to say zero entheogens. Academics ought to say “Only a tiny bit of entheogens; but usually heavy breathing and the traditional methods of the mystics, instead.”
SO BOLD – SO BRAVE – SLEDGE AND Hanegraaff
NOTICE the deniers’ TRAJECTORY of retraction:
How long before they admit that I am right?
Intense mystic altered state without psychedelics MAKES NO SENSE – that is the evidence.
mystics’ history: Either they didn’t actually have the intense mystic altered state that they claimed to have, or, they had it, through psychedelics. The evidence is that only psychedelics have enough efficacy to cause that change/ that intense mystic altered state.
Letcher 2006, same: “Ok, we admit our total denial was wrong. But there were only a LITTLE Psilocybin mushrooms in England before 1970.”
The deniers are retreating in my direction. Stop dilly dallying and admit I’m 100% right, immediately.
What happened to Thomas Hatsis promised book that will prove no mushroom imagery in Christian art? Videos at YouTube announce that book – we’re waiting. ie, Thomas Hatsis is retreating in my direction.
new type of keyboard shortcut: fav quotes:
“Amanita muscaria is the most famous entheogen in the world that nobody uses. It is the supreme symbol of all entheogenic religion: of secret cults and societies of initiates and whispered lost knowledge.” – Dale Pendell, Pharmako Gnosis, first sentence of Amanita chapter nouse dpam
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.” – Revelation 22:14 (the last page of the Bible), NIV rev2214
Bullsh!t Is Bullsh!t: False Tepidness Is Hardly Truer than False Denial of Entheogens
“We Figured Out How Hermetists Had Intense Altered States: Through Entheogenic Practices in the Wide Sense! 🏆” – Wouter Hanegraaff & Justin Sledge, Posturing Academics
“We Figured Out How Hermetists Had Intense Altered States: Through Non-Drug Entheogens! 🏆” – Wouter Hanegraaff & Justin Sledge, Posturing Academics
From Total Denial to Insistent Assertion Along with Strenuous Minimizing of Entheogens: “I boldly insist that ancients definitely used entheogenic practices (but it was almost always non-drug entheogenic practices)” – Countersignal Yourself Harder
Hanegraaff says reject bullsh!t 1, and instead, assert bullsh!t 2 instead, which slightly eases back from bullsh!t 1. but bullsh!t is bullsh!t.
“the Ogdoad above the heimarmene” – p. 258, Hermetic Spirituality and the Historical Imagination: Altered States of Knowledge in Late Antiquity, by Wouter Hanegraaff, 2022 oah
Video title: “What is Hermeticism – Then & Now Conversation @EmbassyoftheFreeMind w/prof. Hanegraaff” Dec 12, 2023 80,296 views ESOTERICA YouTube channel 835K subscribers
Desc:
“A roundtable conversation hosted by the Embassy of the Free Mind in Amsterdam moderated by Dr. Lucinda Martin, between dr. Justin Sledge of Esoterica and Prof. Dr. Wouter Hanegraaff on the topic: Hermes and Hermeticism, Then and Today.”
Transcript Follow along using the transcript. [below] You can toggle timestamps at YouTube.
Quick paste from idea development page 26: Related Comments
Added machine transcription below.
At 1:20:00, Sledge rejects both errors (just like Brown positions themself as centrist by rejecting mushroom imagery in Christian art (St. Walburga tapestry, definitely not Amanita) and affirming it by also at the same time displaying that same art in beautiful gallery of awesome instances of definite Amanita imagery in Christian art):
Avoid psychedelics eliminativism – I agree, that is baloney.
Avoid DMT reductionism (“it’s always DMT”).
Sledge means: Avoid entheogenic reductionism; avoid saying that the way esotericists accessed the altered state of consciousness was always psychedelics.
Sledge is wrong. This is false centrism.
In fact, the way ppl had the altered state of consciousness sufficient for mental model transformation is always, exclusively psychedelics, no other method.
That’s my official firm position.
Photo: Michael Hoffman, Egodeath Mystery Show
My Wussy Half-Truth in 1997 like the traditional methods of the mystics are non-drug entheogens
“There are multiple triggers for the dissociative cognitive state, including psychedelics, meditation, schizophrenia, sensory deprivation, hyperventilation, temporal-lobe epilepsy, UFO abduction, and near-death experiences.” – Michael Hoffman 1997
“the” dissociative state? maybe, but that is BS, in that it is not sufficient to cause mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism. “DIZZY DOESN’T COUNT” – Michael Hoffman slogan.
“Dizzy Doesn’t Count”
{balance scale} = B.S. 🚫⚖️
Crop by Michael Hoffman. Great Canterbury Psalter f11, Day 1 & 4 of Creation, Panaeolus points to pan of {balance scale}; an {open book}.
I give NO credit to claims of “the traditional methods of the mystics” that are allegedly non-drug.
Non-drug entheogens is academic balony, with ZERO substantiation. It is pure doctrinal positioning, a circle of academics pleasing each other, not reality.
Heavy breathing makes you dizzy – it does not cause mental model transformation, mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism. which is the only thing that’s relevant for this debate.
My authority: My leading-edge father in 1980 led me in Grof BS Breathing. It is way way way too weak. weak!
keyboard shortcut for my 2004 “Entheogenic Esotericism” post
“Authentic esotericism is entheogenic esotericism. Entheogens are the key to esotericism. This is the simplest possible theory of esotericism, and the most natural, the least contrived and strained. Theories of esotericism that are not based on entheogens suffer from the problem of grandiose verbiage, unmet promises and claims, chronic vagueness, excuses for lack of potent and prompt efficacy, and no ability to deliver the experiences which are talked about. Drug-free esotericism doesn’t work; it is not effectively ergonomic.” – Michael Hoffman, Egodeath Yahoo Group, June 12, 2004
that lacks definition: “sufficient for mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism” – note also: hyper-eternalism
When You Think of Psychedelics Extremism, Think Egodeath theory
🍄👑 King of the Ardent Advocates
I agree, Justin Sledge, it is always Psilocybin, never DMT. Do not say it’s always DMT. It is always Psilocybin. (It is never Wouter Hanegraaff’s non-drug entheogens.)
Per hardline Egodeath theory:
No one ever had mystic experiernc any way other than Psilocybin.
Academics lie when they emphatically proclaim their DOCTRINAL STATEMENT OF FAITH that “there are many ways to produce same effect as Psilocybin” – LIARS CLUB. Fabricicated alt methods do not work, defined as: they do not produce sufficient effect. re strength or reliablility. note however, Cuebensis is not as reliable or ergonomic as blotter. Cubensis is hard to worrk with, for Psilocybin transformation.
Transcription (with timestamps)
Easy to get w/o timestamps, also. todo??
0:09[Music]
0:22a lesson that I’ve learned in my short life thus far is that if we let others Define what success is for us we never
0:30achieve it however if we Define what success means to us and for us regardless of social political or
0:37economic expectations then we might have a chance
0:43this summer I got to experience a real bit of success what it feels like for me
0:50for this channel for the project of esotera I got to join in a roundt
0:56discussion with a personal hero of mine professor professor vouter hanrath at an
1:02institution I also deeply admire and Revere the embassy of the free mind also
1:08known as the Ritman library to discuss a topic that has long fascinated me the
1:15philosophy and spirituality of hermeticism of course Professor hanuka’s
1:21work has transformed the field of the study of wosa terorism and frankly it speaks for itself though I remember
1:29being young person in my late teens probably and finding his work in the late 1990s and think to myself my God
1:38you can study all this cool esotericism stuff with rigor with scientific
1:44academic rigor and that that still motivates me down to this day further
1:51when I discovered there was an entire vast Library where esoteric wisdom was
1:56collected in the very antiquarian volumes and manuscripts that first brought that light to this world I
2:04resolved I resolved that I would go there and I would study that material
2:09come what may among the same canals that dayart and Spinosa once tried so on a
2:16very very warm evening I got to experience a bit of what success is for me to speak on a topic dear to me with a
2:23personal hero in a space I hold with reverence among a crowd of absolutely
2:30wonderful like-minded people and some of the most wonderful dear friends I’ve met in the recent years so I want to
2:37introduce you to this conversation by encouraging you to head over to the Embassy of the free Minds YouTube
2:42channel and their website and subscribe subscribe to their content you can find the links below and in the
2:49description if you like the content we put forward here at esoterica you’ll enjoy their content immensely indeed we
2:57share a common goal making as a teric wisdom accessible with scholarly rigor secondly
3:05I’d encourage you to support their work by picking up some of the items from their web shop for instance this two
3:12volume Christ Plato Hermes Tris magistus volume is one of my absolute favorite
3:17books it is a veritable catalog of hermetic and mystical wisdom documenting
3:23the first 50 years of printing it’s like having a portable
3:28Museum but for topics that esoterica specializes in it’s well worth picking
3:34up I think you can get a copy of this two volume hardback really really amazingly bound and printed document for
3:40like 50 bucks now we recorded a lot of material at the Ritman Library so I’ll be rolling out some of that soon as well
3:46so if you like esoteric spirituality really really beautiful old books and a 17th century Dutch mansion
3:55on the canals of Amsterdam stay tuned but with special thanks to everyone at
4:01the embassy of the free m especially Dr lenda Martin here is my conversation
4:07with Professor hanra on hermeticism then and
4:14[Music]
4:27now okay okay sorry about the technical difficulties we’ve uh We’ve consulted and determined
4:34it was the Hermetic dionis who were infiltrating our sound system let me
4:39start over uh for those at home I’m Lucinda Martin I’m the director of the Ritman Research Institute and the bibla
4:46philosophica hermetica the library of hermetic philosophy and this evening we
4:51have a round table which we’re calling Hermes yesterday and today now as I said before our library
4:59used to be one of the few places to study hermetic discourses and traditions these things were long viewed as
5:05Superstitious by Academia and by mainstream churches and thus seen as Unworthy of of attention in the meantime
5:13Scholars have begun to realize the contributions of hermetic streams of thought to the cultural history of
5:20humanity and last November our library was added to the UNESCO memory of the world register because of the
5:27contributions some of our authors have made to the development of modern human
5:32rights in 2017 the Ritman family established a museum the embassy of the
5:38free mind which is where we are this evening to teach the general public about the content of the library we
5:45present exhibitions and we offer lectures and seminars and even a Children’s Program you might therefore
5:51say that the kind of event that we’re hosting tonight is in our DNA it brings together two of the most
5:58prominent voices about hermetic traditions and discourses one operating in Academia and one specialized in
6:06communicating to the public and those are also our two concerns Val Jan is Professor of the
6:14history of hermetic philosophy and related streams of thought at the University of
6:19Amsterdam he has many scholarly Publications including his most recent book hermetic spirituality and the
6:26historic imagination just Sledge is the creator of the YouTube channel esoterica which
6:33has more than 300,000 followers this evening we want to explore the past present and future of
6:41hermetic streams of thought and their study what role they’ve played in history what they mean to people today
6:49and what questions are open that still need to be answered about this subject
6:54each of our speakers will give a short presentation and then we want to open the discussion to as many questions as
7:01possible both from our live and our remote audience in this way we hope to
7:06include the perspectives of academics practitioners and anyone interested in
7:11this fascinating subject with that please join me in welcoming vouter and
7:18[Applause]
7:26Justin start okay well thank you very much for the nice
7:32introduction uh first of all and it’s very nice to be here again in the riton library a place where uh I’ve been
7:39coming uh since uh the end of the 80s the 1980s and um which is really the place
7:47uh where you can study the Hermetic literature uh there’s no better place no other place in the world which is as um
7:53as Central to this kind of research as this place here so this is so I’m very happy to be here again um what I would
8:00like to do just in 15 minutes is uh just give an very short uh introduction to
8:06what our hertica are all about for somewhat larger audience many people in the audience here might already know
8:12what it’s all about more or less but maybe the larger audience doesn’t so um
8:17what are Thea all about I’d like to uh tell a little bit about this um by while
8:23at the same time also telling you about my my personal interest and my own own development in my uh encounters my
8:31encounters with th greatest herish herish Trish magistus the um the
8:37legendary author of the Hermetic writings uh I encountered the carpus hermeticum the most Central text of
8:44hermetic writings uh by the end of the 1980s uh in a Dutch translation which
8:49was made possible by the biblo of philosophic hertica here in Amsterdam and the translation of the carpatica
8:56made by uh um rulof Brook and K whel which was uh of great importance for uh
9:03you know calling attention to the hertica in in the Dutch context I got fascinated I read these texts I was
9:10wondering what is it all about I couldn’t really make out entirely what they were all about there were many
9:15things that puzzled me about him but I got fascinated and hooked about this text um and um what is clear in any case
9:24these are texts that are attributed to an legendary author Hermes mesus or in
9:30which this legendary author or wisdom teachers plays a central role uh they
9:35were written in the second third centuries of the Common Era more or less uh in Greek and um um but they were
9:43written in Egypt and this combination of Egypt and Greek is interesting and and important for understanding what arar
9:50are all about because uh when you think of Greece then you think usually about
9:56Greece Greek culture as the origin of Greek rationalism Greek philosophy Etc
10:01and many people think that the whole of Western civilization began in Greece right so Greece has this kind of iconic
10:08status of the or as the origin of Western philosophy uh and rationalism
10:13but then these these texts were written in Egypt and Egypt is often seen as the counterpart in that respect Egypt is
10:21often perceived as the home of everything that’s not rational and not
10:26philosophical but uh that has to do with magic and Superstition and all kind of
10:32things that were seen as the counterpart of rationality and so the fact that her hetic writings were written precisely in
10:38Egypt but in Greek and in Greek which uses a lot of philosophical language is
10:44fascinating so you have these these two countries Egypt and Greece together so
10:49to speak in uh one carpus of text hertica these Texs are attributed to
10:54this legendary teacher um and uh they are all about the search for gnosis
11:00ultimate knowledge knowledge about the true nature of reality the true nature of God and the true nature of ourselves
11:08and um to already you know give you very shortly the answer of um what the quest
11:14prognosis is all about the ultimate um um answer that our hermetic uh authors
11:21gave to the question what is reality is all about what is the true nature of reality was that they said everything is
11:28light there is only one reality spiritual light which is universal and
11:33um God is light reality is light and the human being is light the only thing that
11:38really exists is light Universal light and they call that the Noose with a Greek word um now of course when we’re sitting
11:46here do you look at each other and we are looking we standing in a room here and you see people you see beautiful
11:52pictures at the walls Etc you’re not seeing light uh you’re you’re seeing all kind of objects and people
11:59um why is that well that is because according to the hertica uh we are not
12:05actually perceiving reality as it really is we are diluted so our state of consciousness in which we find ourselves
12:11is a diluted State a state of state of hallucination and this is these are really appropriate terms uh a state of
12:18hallucination in which we see things that seem very real but are not ultimately real because the only thing
12:24that’s really real is universal light that’s also a kind of core uh belief of the htic authors um so the question is
12:32how do we uh uh wake up from the state of delusion and illusion in which we
12:37find ourselves in which we think this is reality and how do we find our way towards a true perception of the true
12:44nature of reality which is universal light that was really what the way of Hermes was all about and that is what
12:50you find in the Hermetic literature so in the Hermetic literature you find the
12:55description of what uh is often described as the path of Hermes or the way of Hermes in which um the authors
13:03and practitioners who wrote these texts where describing how you can uh Free
13:11Yourself liberate yourself from delusionary perceptions of reality and
13:16find your way to gnosis of reality as it really is that’s a kind of a core
13:22summary of what oura are all about these are unique profound very fascinating
13:27text I have been studying them for decades now and this is in Corpus of text that you can keep reading there are
13:33many text that you might come across when you read them a couple of times you know what they’re all about these are
13:39text that you can keep reading because they always keep surprising you I’ve uh written a pretty thick book about him um
13:46and been doing little else then studying the herar for five or six years I’m absolutely sure if I uh start reading
13:54the text the text again I will again discover new things that I didn’t see before uh because this is how
14:01fascinating and multi levs levels leveled their hetic text are so these
14:06are Classics these are Classics um to say something else also about the
14:12reception of the Hy because these a Tex from the second third Century late Antiquity uh Egypt and the Roman Empire
14:20very long time ago uh many things happened with armatic writings over the centuries they got translated they got
14:28copied by scribes Etc a lot can be said about it but an highlight of the Revival
14:33of the Hermetic uh literature came in the 15th century when the Greek texts uh
14:40especially the text that is known as the Corpus hermeticum uh got translated into Latin by one of the great humanists in
14:47the uh of the Renaissance marcelio ficino and this famous translation came
14:52out in 1471 uh known as the Pander uh the book on the wisdom and uh
15:00power of God the famous translation of the carum now I got fascinated by uh the
15:08reception and the translation of the hertica in the Renaissance in the spirit uh in 1997 and that’s maybe a nice small
15:17story to tell of how very small things that happen in your life can totally change your life forever and because I
15:23was living in Paris at that time uh I was one evening I was visiting a friend of mine famous scholar of the study of
15:30esotericism antoan f uh who’s an pioneering St scholar in our field I was
15:37having a nice evening at home with him and I was looking um at a little glass case that he had in his room which had a
15:45collection of very old books uh very valuable old books the kind of books that you find here in the Ritman library
15:51and one of them caught my interest for some reason I took it out it turned out to be in French translation from from
15:58the 16th century of hermetic literature and um and somehow something
16:06tickled my interest and I still think if I hadn’t taken that book out my life would have changed completely would have
16:11been and I would not have done most of the things that I actually have done I asked Onan fa can I borrow this book
16:19well it’s a valuable 16th century text with he amazingly uh you know allowed me
16:25to take it home or with me to my room uh that I had in Paris and I took it with me and I was reading it uh in reading it
16:32in b i very well remember this I couldn’t make out most of it it was written in 16th century French very
16:39difficult uh I didn’t understand most of it but I understand some of it and I noticed there’s something about this
16:46text there’s something fascinating about it it’s a kind of an intuition that you can have sometimes I want to know more
16:51about this two weeks later I went to Amsterdam and I went to the bi of philosophic hertica here and I met an a
16:59neolatin translator who happened to be sitting there with born uh who was translating hermatic text into Dutch and
17:06I asked what are you what what are you doing and he said uh well I’m translating a text by looo lelli and
17:14then a little bell went off my head because I had been reading this French text and this had been written by La
17:20lazel that is the French the frenchification so to speak of lovic larell and so this was a coincidence I
17:28thought I want to know more about loo latari I started working with with born and we ended up translating all the
17:34works by latari uh from Latin into English wrote a large introduction about
17:40it and published a book about this and why was this so important well uh why was this so fascinating uh to me and why
17:48do I think it is important to say something about about larell well there is the famous there’s a famous narrative
17:55that has been told about their htic Traditions by and the Hermetic tradition by Francis Yates an great scholar uh who
18:03published an Masterpiece in 1964 jordano Bruno and the hetic
18:09tradition in which she argued that the htic that the translation of the hertica in the 15th century um was a momentous
18:17event in cultural history uh the translation that fito made of the Corpus
18:23ticum changed the nature of the Renaissance it introduced Magic uh and
18:29learned discourse about magic into the intellectual culture and it had a huge
18:34impacts on the entire early modern periods and gave um the starting point
18:40in many ways according to Francis Yates to the Scientific Revolution which for finally led to the modern world so she
18:46created she made this beautiful large Grand narrative about the enormous
18:51impact of the Hermetic literature the Hermetic tradition which um all started
18:57with the Trans translation of the scorpus herum in 14 1471 now I was reading this L larel this
19:05L larell and I was looking him up in Franc Jade’s famous book and I could
19:11hardly find him he was mentioned here and there in a few foot notes but what I discovered was that this unknown guy
19:19lelli had been the second translator of the carpus ticum next to uh to ficino he
19:26had written some treatises that had not been included by ficino so it was not
19:32just ficino who translated the carpus it was also lelli um so I wanted to know more about
19:38lelli and to cut a very long story short short because I just have a few more minutes um it’s basically turned out
19:46that by looking at one forgotten figure that’s already in this case when you actually start studying him and
19:53contextualize him and learn about him and learn about his work you discover
19:58that the basic normative standard narrative that had so impressed
20:04countless people The Narrative by Francis Yates had to be revised and her whole story well turned out to be very
20:13different from reality so uh basically on the basis of lell I came to the what
20:20I discovered at that occasion was how strongly Scholars with their interpretation of ancient text can
20:27determine the way that we look at history and sometimes their interpretations are
20:32wrong and have to be revised and then suddenly the whole picture changes that uh that Discovery has always always
20:39stayed with me um the whole story of the Hermetic tradition that Francis Jades
20:44was telling had had to be revised on the basis of new discoveries of an unknown
20:50hermatic author L lelli uh much more recently beginning in 2015 more or less
20:56I decided to finally go back to this mysterious uh hermetic text themselves
21:02the text that were written in the second and the third century and really studied them very very very carefully going back
21:08to the Greek the Greek Originals looking at all the translations the footnotes the commentaries and whatever is there
21:14reading all the secondary literature and again I found that um if you uh if you
21:21delve deep into this text then you find that they are very profound they’re very deep there’s you you keep discovering
21:28do things about them but what struck me most is that again the way that we look
21:34at this text uh is often determined by the narratives that in this case 20th
21:40century Scholars have put on these text and often these narratives are wrong and again in this case I have been arguing
21:48and maybe we can talk a bit more about it later that uh we have to look at this whole whole hermatic literature of for
21:54Antiquity in a radically different way from how we used to the text and that is my final part of my little talk these
22:01text have often been described as the philosophical hertica so this which
22:06which suggest these are philosophical texts um I’ve come to the conclusion that these are actually not
22:12philosophical texts they use philosophical language Greek philosophy
22:17they use elements from the from Plato and and platonic philosophy but they are
22:23not interested in resolving philosophical questions in a way that standard philosophers are usually doing
22:30they’re interested in something else they’re using philosophy in order to find uh answers to the question of what
22:37is the ultimate nature of reality but most of all to find answers to how can we heal ourselves from our deluded
22:44Consciousness and how can we find the way back to a direct perception of reality as it really is so I’ve proposed
22:52to refer to this uh Corpus of philosophical hertica as spiritual
22:58hertica this is not these are not philosophical text these are what I call spiritual text which uh are uh centrally
23:07uh devoted to uh trying to transform our
23:12interior Constitution to transform ourselves to transform our minds and our whole Consciousness in such a way that
23:20we uh get liberated from deluded perceptions of the world and actually
23:25discover how reality really is that is uh that is what these texts in my view
23:30are all about final thing I want to say is that um so the Ultimate Reality that
23:37you discover by means of gnosis that is the central method of Thea is that
23:43there’s only one reality and that is light Universal light at the same time uh very often
23:50Scholars have have suggested that this means that human beings according to Thea have to liberate ourselves from
23:57matter from the material world from the body and find our way back to an non-material and other worlds of pure
24:04spirituality but I found that this is actually not what texts say they’re actually about embodiment they’re not
24:10about escaping from the world towards other spiritual reality of pure light they’re actually about making contact
24:17with that reality and then channeling it into this world so the herar is actually
24:23an extremely World affirming positive worldview that celebrates the beauty of
24:28existence the beauty of reality and uh doesn’t teach us to escape from the
24:34world but actually U tries to teach its practitioners to transform the world to
24:40make it better to make it more beautiful and to make it more true um so
24:45nonduality the reality of one reality of Light which is the only reality that
24:51really exists One Core element of Thea and the other core core element is the
24:56task of trying to channel that Universal light into our material world and um
25:03that I think is the core uh concept are the Core Concepts of thetic htic
25:08spirituality that you find here and as Scholars and that is what I do in my daily life you can uh Trace how these
25:16text with this strange and often misunderstood message get uh interpreted
25:22reinterpreted passed on often misunderstood or creatively re
25:27interpreted in all kind of ways through the century until we reach the present day and the reinterpretation of the
25:33hertica is still going on at this moment in all kind of alternative spiritual circles and maybe we will talk about
25:39this also with Justin sletch about this so that was my small introduction thank
25:49you um what I want to talk about is a bit what valter mentioned um there’s sort of what hermeticism was and sort of
25:56what hermeticism was in the ancient world but there’s also how we’ve received hermeticism what it was and how
26:02we received it are quite different things as you can imagine and what prompted this at some level was me
26:07thinking about how I use the word hermetic when I’m sitting down writing scripts for esoterica and what I
26:12discovered was that I use it in all kinds of completely different ways this word took on so many valences of meaning
26:20and I began to ask myself where did some of these valences come from and I think
26:25that question is incredibly complicated and I’m going to give you one tiny answer to where I think that may have
26:30come from and where that answer comes from I think at some level that answer is very overdetermined and this is just
26:37one piece of that puzzle perhaps a footnote that could have been a valter’s book in fact is that we often find the
26:42Corpus syum and hermetic literature traveling with other texts often
26:48Scholars will talk about the Corpus of medicum as if it’s sort of floating alone by itself and in some editions it did but in a great many editions
26:54especially editions that were very decisive and very popular the Corpus herum is moving alongside as a fellow
27:02traveler to other texts and as you can imagine you know many folks here have
27:07been painted like The Fringe you keep The Company You Keep we begin to be painted as the company we keep for
27:13better and and force so this text is a very important
27:19text in the history of all of this this is a 1497 uh Aldine this is if you even
27:24folks here may recognize the type of Aldis monut uh this is a platonic primer This was
27:30meant to be a a text basically that you would pick up and you would read before you read ficino’s complete translation
27:36of Plato now what’s important about this text iside the fact it’s the first time that yamus appears in print this is
27:43where he gets famously the title day Myster e that you see a complete interesting collection not yet with the
27:49Corpus ticum but a very interesting collection of all kinds of texts that
27:56when you look at them I bet you look at them and go hermetic right you kind they give you sort of hermetic Vibes even
28:02though the Corpus hermeticum isn’t there but we have is De mysteres by yamus we have the commentary on the alabes we
28:10have Pro’s book on sacrifice and Magic what’s also important about this is that many of these texts veilance this
28:15collection a little bit magicky there a little bit magicky veilance to these texts so on deities and diamonds on
28:22dreams on diamonds by Michael celis this is a famous sort of textbook of demonology a Christian text no less uh
28:28one of the few only Christian texts in here we go through and we get or a kind of grab bag of platonic literature
28:35neoplatonic literature Pythagorean literature that all is going to set the stage for marcelio ficino’s translation
28:42of Plato’s Opera now this text does not yet contain the Corpus hedum but it will
28:47in just a moment but again if you take a look at these texts they’re already beginning to take on some of the effects
28:54of what we Mal began to think about as kind of the thing that aen Renaissance megus would want to pick up in fact if I
29:00were a Renaissance megus I would be the first person in line to buy this
29:05compendium in 1516 right and this to FYI see I can pop back this is just two
29:11years before ficino dies right so just to get an idea and also it contains one text by ficino at the very end just FYI
29:19so already establishing and just FYI the Aldine press is funded by money from uh
29:24from the deorta family so giovan deorta is actually knee deep in this from the very beginning and the Aldine press
29:30which is quite famous one of the most beautiful presses of all time is already pumping out a book by ficino in 1497
29:36just a couple of year before he dies in 1516 this Edition is greatly expanded
29:43and the AL press logo is put right beneath it now for my book nerds in the room and I imagine there’s at least one
29:49of you the symbol of the Aline press is a
29:55symbol of extreme quality when you you want to think about the engine of the Renaissance it’s the Aldine press they
30:01are pumping out Greek and Latin text and accessible easy to read very easy to
30:06read relatively inexpensive volumes and the Aline press will eventually give us small books that will become the
30:12background for we now called paperbacks if you wanted access to Old wisdom add
30:18Fontes back to the sources the alme Press was your go-to and when the alme
30:24Press printed something it meant it was worth reading was a classic it was one of the
30:29sources and there it is right in the middle now of oops I’m sorry I don’t
30:35have it written out here but right at the very heart of this text is now murky
30:41Tris megisti Pander it’s now at the center of it in fact I have this at home
30:46if you open it up to the center hermus magistus is now at the Beating Heart of
30:52a platonic reader right follows it is the escolapios and then a grab bag
30:57mostly of ficino all ficino but many of ficino things taken from his three books on life many of which deal with quasi
31:05medical quasi magical ways of living the text is now even more leaning in the direction of something like what a
31:11Renaissance Megos would want including at Beating Heart now Hermes Tris magistus so with the Pander is now
31:18sitting at the very heart of what would be the book you would want if you were a John D if you were Gino de Bruno if you
31:24were someone like that this text is decisive in the history of all this because this is one of the first times
31:31where the Pander will be printed with other texts and this Edition in some form of fashion is going to become one
31:38of the most best-selling editions of the corpus sedicum now when we talk about
31:43editions of a corpus fum we might say this is 11th edition of the Corpus fum the 11th Edition when you hear that what
31:50you’re hearing is it’s the 11th edition of the Corpus medicum as if the corpor amicum is by itself it’s not it’s now
31:58traveling with a collection of books that are now shaping what hermeticism is
32:04what adantes means so when you read books like when you bury procol’s book on Magic and cel’s book on demons right
32:12next to Pythagoras and that’s now beginning to color what hermetic is going to mean hermetic is
32:17now taking on AV veillance because now it’s traveling with other books that are now coloring what it’s going to look
32:25like the 15 16 Edition would be now would be the last time that the Aldine press would pick this up the next
32:31edition of the Corpus medicum the very next edition of the Corpus medicum right would now be printed in 1532 now switched over to basil and now
32:39look what’s happened all the ficino’s been dropped so is the Michael cellus on demons maybe that made some people
32:44uncomfortable demons have a tendency to do that and yamus and Pander have
32:50switched pride of place he now is no longer at the center of the collection he is now at the top and many of the
32:56things have been dropped but not yamus not procus including on spirits and on Deon and on sacrifice and
33:04Magic probably one of the most popular books about sort of occultism in the in
33:10the Middle Ages this Edition with one with one change we’ll see in just a minute this one right here is also very
33:16important because it follows a different manuscript tradition than the 14 Infamous 1471 edition of the Pander this
33:23Edition never achieved great success as an addition however this addition did beginning in
33:31uh 1549 this the center of location for this printing is now going to be switched over into France in this
33:38Edition as you can see has now switched yamus for p of place now he’s now at the
33:43front again and now heres Tris mistas bookends the text Michael CIS has made a return
33:50on demons has come back and what we have still poery and procus notice how much
33:56more magically inclined this collection is now than the first one it’s almost the plurality of the
34:03text we’re dealing with demons and magic and Hermes Tris magistus is now the bookend of the text this Edition
34:10beginning in 14 1549 would go into I haven’t counted them yet but there would be editions printed almost every five
34:17years through the 17th century think about that time period about 1549 into
34:22the sort of mid 17th century that’s the time period where we see a huge explosion in the interest of people like
34:29d and things like that this text I think would have been the goto text that you
34:34wanted to go to to get access to this literature this was a octavo Edition very small
34:40inexpensive if you wanted a copy of the of the Hermes Tris magistus if you wanted access to that ad Fontes you
34:46picked it up here now think about this from the point of view of the reader to get to the Herm you have to
34:53cross this path if you’re reading the book cover to cover imagine imagine the primed imagine what you’re thinking as a
34:59reader as your mind has been primed through this reading and by the time you get to the to the
35:06Pander imagine to valter’s point imagine what you are now receiving you are now reading the Pander through this prism
35:14and I think that’s an incredibly important prism to understand when we think about an addition of the Corpus
35:20ticum we have to think about how Not only was it received but literally how it was read
35:27in a book at that time understanding the book culture shapes how the
35:33understanding of these texts happened and without understanding that book culture and this literature as it’s put
35:38into this configuration I think that tells us a great deal or at least gives us part of
35:43a clue about how this hermeticism whatever that means is going
35:49to be received by readers and by people like who are going to be practicing
35:54hermeticism just to drive this point home and to make it a little bit more ancient and more I may perhaps more
35:59interesting uh this is the Edition this is the text from the 1549 I think would be an interesting thing for my folks out
36:05there who are mystically inclined toward hermeticism would be put yourself back into the
36:101550s go meet all your 1550s buddies start a reading group and then read these texts in this
36:16order and see what it would have felt like intellectually to work through
36:22yamus and to come through the Plato commentary on Plato’s alabes which by the way is never the Plato’s albies is
36:28never read now I’ve went through five years of graduate school in philosophy and the only thing we ever learned about
36:33it was Plato probably didn’t write it right but I tell you this you know what the first book you read if you signed up
36:39to a neoplatonism class by yamus you read the alabes everybody read the alabes now
36:46nobody does aside from Specialists so and this by the way is a commentary on uh particularly a commentary by procas
36:53on the alabes I challenge you if you’re interested in in this read those read these books in this order because that’s
36:59how someone like John D would have picked this book up and he had this on a shelf by the way this is how he would have read it so Gathering these books
37:07from from the past we have to think about Hermes Tris mistas and the Pander
37:12and his wisdom as not isolated into one book or one system of books but buried
37:17among other books and relating intellectually and gaining avalance from
37:23these other books this is nothing new if we rind all the way back to the
37:30nagamati library the only other place in Antiquity really where we find hermetic text in C2 in the actual volumes the
37:38physical Coptic volumes we also find hermetic literature writing along other
37:44literature nagamma codex 6 is a weird codex I know that the nagamma Codex are
37:51all kind of weird but the nagati Codex 6 is especially unusual it’s the only one
37:56to have an Max Thunder perfect mind is unlike any other text in the nagamati library for folks who know it it’s
38:02beautiful maybe one of those beautiful texts of the ancient world the authoritative discourse and the concept
38:07of our great power are also very odd kinds of text you probably even if you’re interested in nostic ISM you
38:13probably haven’t heard much about them they’re relatively brief and they’re relatively odd texts there’s a random
38:18chunk of the Republic which has a very interesting veillance when it’s been translated into Coptic and then the last
38:23three texts are hermetic I would say and argue that this is not new in the same way that we can
38:31look through the printing history of the Corpus medicum we could probably assume at some level at least from this one
38:37piece of evidence that it may have not even in the ancient world traveled by itself it may have always been a kind of
38:44ancient traveler and what that means at some level is that whatever hermetic
38:49meant and valter’s point whatever hermetism was in IPO in itself it
38:55probably always also Flo as a signifier it probably meant something different in
39:01different communities in different textual contexts it certainly meant something you know what connection and
39:06when the when the when the the Codex writer was putting this together what connection in their mind connected
39:12Thunder perfect mind to the discourse of the V and the inot I don’t know and I
39:17don’t think it was random but I don’t know and that’s a great place to at least speculate why put them in this
39:24codex and so what I want to say as sort of a conclusion to wrap this up
39:29is that the hermeticism that anyone has inherited is always floated in this way it seems like we have evidence in the
39:35late Antiquity for this we have evidence in the history of printing for this and I think that what’s fascinating and
39:41what’s exciting about that is that on the one hand we can do a great links to do what I what I would call forensic
39:47philosophy the great work that valter has done in his recent book to sort of forensically reconstruct hermeticism as
39:54it was in these texts and which interesting I think voucher in your work is how also you take some text and put
39:59them sort of closer to the periphery of what hermetism was and some outside of it right and even that and I think
40:04that’s an interesting part of this like you have now also entered in sort of rearranged them in a way that you think
40:10makes the most sense and I like the fact that we could throw your yeah you could throw the diagram up here as well and it
40:15will be part of this history of how we’ve rearranged them to make them the hermetism we think is the authentic hermetism yeah uh and I think that
40:23that’s a great and I find your read very compelling but it’s an interesting part of sort of the how we put these things
40:29together we could throw valters up there as well but what that means is that we have hermeticism in Hermes and hermus
40:35megistus as something like we might call floating signifiers they mean something it doesn’t you can’t say anything’s
40:41hermetic but the exact meaning is always determined at some level by how we receive it and how we receive it is
40:48often in history been through these bundles of wisdom not a not in itself a
40:54bundle of wisdom and that’s exciting because it means that whatever hermetism is or was it’s not hermetically closed
41:02it’s hermetically open thank
41:14you well the cogs are turning with uh all the information you’ve both given us um I think you’ve really given us a good
41:21introduction to um what the original practitioners of hermetic religion we’re
41:27after um and centuries later we’ve heard something about the reception um
41:32obviously this is not just a gap of time it’s a gap between relived religion and
41:37reception through texts um and I I wonder what what needs
41:44these discourses these traditions this religion or these thoughts have served
41:49over the over the centuries and I think we can even extend that to Scholars I mean this served something for Francis
41:56Yates as well yeah yeah so I just be curious about both your thoughts about
42:02that one thing I was thinking listening to your to your wonderful story a story about how these texts travel is uh is
42:10that in a certain way you are uh giving New Life to maybe to something of Fran Shades narrative because I’ve been
42:17deconstructing Franc Shades narrative and you’re in a certain way reconstructing it by saying this uh this
42:22hermatic literature uh was read as close connection with magic right with with
42:29magical text and text about demons etc etc and so the interesting thing is that
42:35if you actually read the Corpus herum in the translation by ficino they you find
42:40there’s no magic in it there’s no magic anywhere um so you find magic in the escalus but not in the carpus ofum and
42:47um so and also another thing is also that uh it um that that has been a bit
42:54bit forgotten but fito strangely enough he translated it because because kimoi
43:01told him you have to translate it well if you’re MOS tells you that you translate it uh that’s very clear so he
43:08did it but uh it seems that he wasn’t very interested and K also seems to they
43:14do not seem to have been so impressed by the Corpus and meum they made no effort to translate to to printed wasn’t
43:21printed it got printed in 171 Years Later by a pirate in a pired copy uh by
43:28two other humanists who just rested through the press and um FICO himself
43:33never tried to publish it so I always get the impression that uh for them the
43:39Corpus was a bit of a disappointment actually uh didn’t offer them what they
43:44had thought it would give them but then it gets caught up in the whole you know what what you’ve been telling us all
43:51these uh all these new prints and new additions that travel with a text and you get this kind of this kind of uh
43:58yeah hermatic magical hermatic you know constellations and uh and that is what
44:04Francis Shades talks about would that make sense I think so and I think and if I could rewind this I would go back to
44:10one of these slides and we look at that collection and to us I think we think
44:15all that makes sense all that makes sense together Pythagoras and Michael celus and ficino and all that but if you
44:22actually read those books they don’t sit comfortably together yamus didn’t agree with poery Michael cettus was a
44:28Christian if you look at these texts by ficino wasn’t really interested in in in hermatic ideas it doesn’t seem like they
44:35had a huge impact on him what’s interesting to me is that the printer thought they made sense to go together
44:41and that we look at them and they make sense together to us but intellectually they are it’s a very
44:47tense conversation and I think what’s interesting right is that what I’d point out is a dialectic actually between
44:54Francis the8 saying they’re all connected and I’m saying they’re connected but the connection actually
45:00isn’t natural it’s a connection that makes sense that made sense to a printer and what’s interesting is that we’ve
45:05inherited their decisions it sounds like it was a marketing decision it could have been it could have been clickbait
45:11right like demons and mistas he could have been Renaissance clickbait for all I know but um who demons and and but
45:18what’s interesting is that we’ve we we’ve inherited a decision that may have been made by two printers yeah or by two
45:24humanists who just leged a copy of the Pander yeah and and and a defective copy
45:29and a defective copy yeah yeah yeah and I think that that’s um and uh and what’s interesting is when it’s the 1471
45:35Edition and when it’s not um and so I think what for me it’s not so much a a
45:41defense of the Yates position it’s a sense that it was natural for her to come to that position because that’s how
45:46it traveled and again going to point back to your point about contingency the
45:51decision made by a printer and Aldis mantua’s press in 1497 shaped how an entire generation came to
45:59view this collection of literature despite the fact that that collection of literature had nothing to do with Michael cus or or nothing to do with own
46:06demons or nothing to do with Theus or um or poery for that matter and yet that
46:11surveillance it got right because the accident of history and another effect of this was that certain other auers
46:17that should have gotten more attention were marginalized because uh so lelli my
46:22guy uh really um he gets printed in uh you know early 16th century but he never
46:29never got the got a popularity uh that might have been gained by traveling with
46:34all these other guys and uh and one reason is that there was no nothing nothing magical in him either it wasn’t
46:41in P it wasn’t in lell no magic but interestingly and maybe as as a footnote
46:46that’s interesting I think is that um that the author who was most influenced
46:51by lelli uh but you can hardly tell this if you don’t pay very very close attention
46:57is agria and agria the great author of The you know the three books on Magic uh
47:04actually uh many of his core ideas come straight from from lelli but uh this is
47:09kind of an esoteric Secret in um in agria you don’t notice it unless you
47:15really studied very care and it’s so important to note that lazzari’s addition of the Corpus medicum was complete it had all 17 yeah and he’s the
47:23first person in history to say hermetic kusum I am a hermeticist that’s true no
47:29one they people say they were on the path of Hermes in Antiquity no one called themselves a hermeticist but it’s
47:34great because he says heran that’s an excellent point that’s that’s absolutely true uh yes he is the
47:40first to say that and he believed also uh sorry to go on B we were both fans of
47:46laari I mean yeah I am in her yes he said that and a Christian and uh he
47:52believed that he had encountered the reincarnation of Po MRE the teacher of Hermes and the
47:59Corpus of medic one who had who was the same entity as Jesus Christ so for him
48:04po mandri was the logos was Christ who had now now returned in his own time as
48:10this wondering preacher giovan Doro who was his master his Guru and um so he
48:16believed that Christ and and po mandas had returned in his own time and so the end of time was near uh yeah he was so
48:22so so he was so unusual that solers doubted he really existed for a while yeah yeah yeah yeah but be that unusual
48:29that in the future people doubted you really were real yeah well I I wanted to go back to to your explanation V about
48:35what um about what the original um people on the path of Hermes were after
48:41and you said light yeah and I thought what is this light is it an experience
48:48what is the light and to what extent is it a a factor for these later people I
48:53mean maybe these Christians also saw this light and of course there are many passages in the Bible Christ is the
49:00light of the world and so forth um but what do you think they understood this light to be well uh H this is this is I
49:09think a core Point uh the most important uh word I think in the hertica is n the
49:15Greek word n that is the core text if you don’t get the the core word if you want to understand the hertica you have
49:22to start understanding what new means in Greek now if you uh if an open open up
49:28in the Greek dictionary uh dictionary and you look up the word news the
49:33dictionary will tell you it means mind or it means intellect and so you immed
49:38and that’s Al also what you find in all the modern translations uh news gets translated as mind or intellect and
49:44immediately everything starts looking very philosophical to us because well we know what intellect is right we have an
49:50intellect we are intelligent we have a mind it’s in our brain this are all this is all very very familiar language to us
49:56so we read this word about the news and we think we know what it means I’m arguing we do not understand at all what
50:03it means when we translate as intellect or mind because it meant something else and in order to find out what it meant
50:11you have to uh read the text themselves and you have to have to to let their
50:16hermetic authors tell you what news means to them and forget about the dictionary translation for a moment and
50:23if you read read it carefully then I think the only conclusion you can draw is that this is what it means there is
50:29such a thing as an Universal Divine Light God is light this is not of course
50:36the light that comes from the lamps here this is a spiritual reality of Light
50:41which you uh which you can only perceive which you cannot perceive with your natural senses with your eyes you can
50:48only perceive it by an inner uh sense the an inner kind of visual visual sense
50:56which again is called noose so you can only understand the light of divinity
51:01with the light of your own mind or your own noose um so your own noose your own
51:07light your own Inner Light is the light by which you see the light if that makes any sense uh but this light is not
51:15natural light it is a spiritual light and it is the only is the essence of what God really is and um but it is not
51:23just a philosophical concept it is something that is being uh you know according to the hertica so
51:28at the very beginning of Corpus hertica one the poas uh in the very first verses
51:34you will find that the Visionary uh Hermes probably is in a kind of an yeah
51:40an altered state of consciousness in an ecstatic State his bodily senses are on shutdown so to speak uh his new um sour
51:49high he says and um at one point he um gets to see he no I should say
51:58differently he gets to see an enormous being a great entity uh who introduces
52:04himself as pandri this great entity who talks to him and asks him what do you
52:10want to know and he says I want to know the nature of reality and I know want
52:15want to know what God is and then uh pandus changes his appearance and uh
52:21then hermy sees a universal light uh which and he he um spontaneously feels
52:27feelings of love for that light and that is the news so what actually happens is
52:33that that pandis is the news he changes his appearance and he shows what he really is universal light so if you ask
52:41me what is it yeah uh the the hermatic ERS would tell tell you there’s only one
52:47way to know it and that is by experiencing it and then you will know what it is it is not what comes out of
52:52this LMS but what you describe sounds a lot like what you can read in MA eot in
52:58Toler in souo and by the way they’re all also in all the encyclopedia is a
53:03philosophy right so I you know I don’t see the problem with uh philosophy and religion well the problem is that it’s
53:11not the problem is that um we easily get
53:16uh sidetracked because we think that we know when you hear the word intellect they you think oh yeah I know what
53:22intellect is and and we tend to take an Anon IC perspective and to to project
53:28our modern understandings of intellects intellectual intellectualism intellectual rationality rationality
53:34mind we tend to project it onto the text and and then and that uh keeps us very
53:43easily from reading what what are they actually telling us that it means and we
53:48we just pass our own meetings over the meetings that they this exactly what the examples you showed um illust St I think
53:56it’s an example of what we sometimes in philosophy called the dictionary fallacy it’s if if we’re having a debate about something and you say well the
54:02dictionary says it means this dictionaries tell us how words are used not what they mean meaning is only
54:07determined by context and if you go to a dictionary to look up the word noose it says intellect you’re like well settled
54:13like yeah words change meaning and depal context and when you have an incredibly
54:19technical context like what the was happening at the Corpus amicum you’re committing the dictionary fallacy
54:27okay well I have a whole list of questions here and we could go on all night but I’m pretty sure uh the
54:32audience has a few questions too Corey yeah
54:38thanks um I have a question valter you mentioned in your remarks that um the hermetica are basically an
54:45inexhaustible uh F or source for different interpretations as you read
54:50them later um could you maybe give an example of one of your interpretations that changed as a consequence of later
54:58reading or as you develop or sort of changing of one of your conclusions
55:03yeah yeah thank you that was actually one of the question that we thought about earlier how have you changed your
55:09mind and I might as well well interpreted like that yeah um I’ve become extremely interested over the
55:16past 20 years or so for all kinds of reasons in the concept of um alterations of Consciousness or Altered States Of
55:23Consciousness that has become a major uh concern for me a major prism for reading
55:30um materials that I study and um and when I read this text in the 1990s that
55:36concept was not on my radar uh but later later it came on my radar and um so what
55:43I have been arguing in this book uh which has the subtitle altered stat of knowledge and late Antiquity um is that
55:51um uh you know anything that we can know at all uh yeah depends on our state of
55:58consciousness so at this moment I am in an sober State of Consciousness I am
56:04quite sober and focused I’m wide awake I’ve had a cup of coffee uh I can see
56:09you guys I can I can gain a lot of knowledge at this moment by looking at you I know what you look like I can I I
56:16can see the trees outside Etc that’s knowledge that accessible to me in this state of mind I can also in the State of
56:22Consciousness I can also sit behind the computer and start writing an scholarly article and that goes very well in this
56:28state of consciousness right but if you are in an radically altered state of consciousness like for instance the
56:34state that Hermes describes in the first creats of the carpus hermeticum an ecstatic State then um in that stat you
56:42know forget writing an article or that kind of thing you cannot do that but so there’s certain kinds of knowledge that
56:49are not accessible to you then but other other kinds of knowledge are accessible to you so at that’s in that state he
56:55suddenly can uh see the news and he can see poyares and in our state of consciousness now we cannot see the news
57:02poies we do not see the universal light right so so the point is that as we change our Consciousness our state of
57:09consciousness certain uh types of knowledge become accessible to us and other types of knowledge knowledge
57:15become inaccessible to us and um this for me has become an uh a key for
57:23understanding the hertica it’s something that I did see in the past I began to understand
57:28that uh the uh that an number of key
57:33texts of the hertica especially Corpus 1 Corum 13 and the tweeters on the eight
57:39and the N of nedy really are uh the descriptions of radical alterations of
57:45Consciousness which allow radically different types of knowledge which can
57:50which are only accessible in that state and not in another state and this
57:55relates to a concept that I find fascinating uh this idea of State specific knowledge so this idea that
58:01certain kind of knowledge are specific to this state of consciousness other states of knowledge are spe specific to
58:09other states of Consciousness and is there a state in which any kind of Consciousness is accessible to you I
58:16doubt it so I I personally doubt it I think that any knowledge that we have is dependent on the State of Consciousness
58:23that you’re in and this for me has has become kind of really a key uh for
58:29reading the hermetica and of course everybody reads the text from their own perspectives and I’ve been criticized in
58:36a lot of earlier Scholars who read the text through their own biased
58:41perspectives and misunderstood them and no doubt people will say at one point V hanov is is misinterpreting because he
58:48has his interest in altered state of consciousness possible but uh but at
58:53least it’s another kind of reading which I think makes sense so I hope that’s an answer Justin do you want to answer the
58:59same question has your thinking changed uh over time about these things yeah very dramatically actually I remember an
59:06undergraduate first discovering the Corpus of medicum and just being blown away by it just being like this is
59:13amazing and just thinking it was such you know part of it motivated me eventually to coming to study under under valure here at the
59:19hhp and then I went to graduate school and I discovered this thing called middle platonism and I started reading
59:25middle Pless like numinus and Pho and then I looked back to the Corpus of medicum and thought to myself this is
59:32bad philosophy right this is just like this is like low brand you know numinous um
59:43and then uh maybe five years ago or something it sort of dawned to me this
59:48is soteriology not not philosophy and that shift to this is so
59:54iology this is philosophy in the in the service of serology right then the text
1:00:00spoke to me again and that was why I so excited when your book came out because I got affirmed I got you know when you
1:00:06when you come to an idea that vter autograph like writes a 300 page book and it’s like you’re like
1:00:11ah thank god um and so I I it’s that it was for me that progression what an
1:00:18amazing text then I had my ficino moment I was like H not such an amazing text and then I was like ah it’s amazing for
1:00:25reasons I didn’t appreciate the failure was my inability to see it for what it
1:00:31was it’s a text of ser a collection of soteriology and phenomenology oh yeah
1:00:37right that in so far it’s it’s text of serology and phenomenology bam it it hit
1:00:42me again so it’s a all disappointment all
1:00:48dialectic yes um oh sorry sorry uh you just me
1:00:54mentioned meister eart and actually uh I wrote something about Margaret pet and
1:01:00um she might have inspired him I think she did Super biased but um what actually what the whole news um um the
1:01:08way you describe it really made me think of the concept of Love uh by Margaret pet actually um the same type of sorry
1:01:16the same type of um attributes and uh you know what it does what love does is
1:01:22kind of similar to what noose does it’s like kind of knowing uh a kind of a circuit between um the soul and God and
1:01:29that in the end um the eye that sees is the same eye that looks but this these
1:01:35type of things you also find in neoplatonic things a lot so I was just wondering did you ever make this
1:01:40connection yourself or how do you view love or Aros in this whole hermetic um
1:01:48constellation I mean I I guess to this is the minim mystics some of my favorite hi is perhaps my one of my favor
1:01:54favorite Poets of all time was just set bhof this today and it’s one of my favorite places in Amsterdam I love H
1:02:01it’s just one of my favorite poets I think that there is a kinship between mystical Christianity and hermeticism
1:02:08and I think the proof of that is that we have hermeticism at all it when it passed through the Byzantine filter
1:02:13which changed it right and I call it the Byzantine filter but really the Byzantine filter took things out and
1:02:19added things in and Michael cus probably was somewhere in there maybe
1:02:25but I think that the reason why it survived for instance in lactantius and the reason why and Augustine really
1:02:30hated it but it survives a bit positively in lactantius and stoas and eventually it it does cross that
1:02:36Byzantine hump is because there is enough philosophical kinship between certain strains of neoplatonic
1:02:41Christianity and certain readings of the Corpus of medicum that they if you kind of squint and look at it sideways it it
1:02:48it passes a smell test otherwise if it didn’t pass that smell test I don’t think the vistine editors would have ever let it get through and so I think
1:02:54that for whatever reason it it was there was something there was a kinship enough
1:03:01that they were able to squin at it look sideways tweak it a little bit and then pass it on with kind of an imprator
1:03:07stamp and I think the the evidence that there’s a a kind of intellectual connection is the fact that we have it
1:03:14at all yeah I would like to add something else also maybe
1:03:20um one possible angle to look at this is uh use in modern research on neurology
1:03:27and uh brain brain process Etc and uh there is quite some evidence to assume
1:03:34that certain kind of states are simply possible because our brain is able to produce them and so it’s possible that
1:03:41and this remains speculative but it’s possible that Mar pet had similar kind of experiences as are described in the
1:03:48carpus and medine and so it’s it does not just have to be an uh an question of
1:03:55borrowing from one source to another it can also uh it’s also possible that certain kind of mental states are have a
1:04:02certain kind of universality because they are based upon how the brain works it’s possible I just throw this in here
1:04:08as a possibility uh with respect to love um in hertica It’s Complicated they
1:04:14don’t use the word love so much uh there is a notion of platonic love in the S
1:04:21sense of the desire for ultimate beauty that you want to want to attain but I think more
1:04:27important in the heraa is the opposed sense that uh the source of reality
1:04:33which is the paga in Greek the source which is an name not just for God but the source that out of which God himself
1:04:41comes maybe the ultimate mystery of existence the py they call it um they
1:04:46describe it as some kind of boundless source of creativity of manifestation everything comes out of it and uh
1:04:53everything is produced by the P by The Source out of pure generosity and pure
1:04:59uh you know giving so it is a very positive idea that uh out of pure
1:05:05goodness the source generates reality for our enjoyment and um so uh there is
1:05:13good reason to uh interpret this as the source is an source of Love of uh of the
1:05:19love for existence for anything that flourishes that lives that is beautiful
1:05:26Etc yeah hello can you hear me hello thank
1:05:34you very much for highly interesting lecture I have uh a couple of comments
1:05:39or questions first uh the thing about U dictionary meaning of of words like you
1:05:46can look up News Psy whatever and it will not do I totally agree you have to
1:05:52read these terms in in context and and I also think that uh in appropriate translations of the hertica these terms
1:06:00should perhaps not be translated into modern languages yes I agree yeah so but
1:06:06but are there any Modern English translations of the hertica that can be recommended I have read several that
1:06:13they are all different in some in some aspects I personally think that there is no uh really satisfactory modern
1:06:21translation of theum uh uh at this moment I think they’re all highly problematic uh for
1:06:28that’s not an criticism for the for the you know through the translators they’re doing their best but they’re doing
1:06:35they’re using certain procedures for instance translating everything as intellect Etc which I think uh this
1:06:41starts the meaning uh I I can already give I can however give give good news
1:06:46there is an uh new translation coming up by Christian wilberg which will be published in one or two years and uh
1:06:53I’ve seen some uh chapters of it it’s excellent it’s better than all the other ones that I’ve seen and there’s
1:06:59something very interesting also which touches a bit on the whole transmission of text that you you’re you’re referring
1:07:05to um and that is a point that he has highlighted namely in the transmission of the text very often a scribe copies
1:07:13the text and then makes annotations in the margins what has happens and
1:07:18everybody has overlooked this until Christian wiberg is that the next stripe
1:07:23often uh moves that annotation uh into the main text and
1:07:29then another scribe thinks it belongs to the text and so it’s so the so there are many pieces of Thea that actually do not
1:07:36belong there and but have have been misinterpreted as belong to the hermatic text it results in all kinds of uh
1:07:43grammatical mistakes sometimes the text doesn’t make sense carbus herum 3 is a notorious example uh it is full of
1:07:50grammatical inconsistencies you cannot read it but uh he has reproduced or
1:07:56reconstructed this text by putting all the marginalia back into the margins and reconstructing the original text and
1:08:02suddenly it’s a crystal clear text and all the problems has vanished and uh that is not just for Corpus 3 that’s for
1:08:08a whole series of other text so this is a revolutionary new translation that’s coming up very soon it’s going to change
1:08:15our view of trtica that’s great news yeah escalus too is also very defective yeah and I
1:08:23also say the escal 2 is very defective oh it’s a mess it’s it’s been known to be a mess for centuries it’s a mess
1:08:29absolutely true yeah and my second question is about U the arguments for a
1:08:36non dualistic reading of the hertica I find that very interesting the arguments for that AR
1:08:42Arguments for uh non dualistic reading what my arguments are what I’ve what I
1:08:49just been trying to do is hermeneutics I talk a lot about hermeneutics I use gamer Etc and uh I’ve just been trying
1:08:58to understand this text on their own terms I’ve been trying to understand what are they trying to tell me are
1:09:04trying to bracket any kind of a uh prejudices that I could think of that I could identify that might that I might
1:09:11be be a projecting on them and try to let the text speak to me and
1:09:16um this is the conclusion I draw this is yeah for the argument you will have to read the whole book but I that I think
1:09:24once you see that they’re talking about about nism that that is their background metaphysics all kind of questions fall
1:09:31into place as there have been this heavy uh dualistic Gnostic frames put on it so
1:09:38people have wanted to see a gnostic dualistic Gnostic matter against Spirit
1:09:44kind of narratives on her hertica it doesn’t work it cannot account for many
1:09:49of the text and if you take a non-dualistic reading I think it’s resolves well I would say
1:09:5795 yeah percent of the problems there are a few tricky cases I can understand that that’re totally out great with you
1:10:02thank you much and I would say to also valter what’s interesting about this collection and nagamati 6 is that we
1:10:08typically think of gnosticism whatever that category is as dualism these texts are interesting because as a bag these
1:10:14are not terribly dualist texts no and I think the fact that these three at the end is not an accident that this bag is
1:10:21is an interesting sort of non-dualistic bag of things going on that’s interesting I have to have to follow up
1:10:27on that Thunder perfect mind is a great text that really undermines dualisms and things like that so I think that part of
1:10:32what may have been motivating this author may have been these texts are unusual in that respect and they all got
1:10:38thrown into the grabb of codex 6 that’s an excellent suggestion I’m going to to
1:10:43follow up on that and yeah yeah well it occurs to me that we have a really full
1:10:48room tonight and that indicates something namely the fascination um Within this material and Justin you have
1:10:55a lot of interaction with with your followers and I just wonder what you think where does this Fascination come
1:11:02from with these stories and images and the material in general I one of my
1:11:08favorite groups of people to interact with on the internet uh which is which is sometimes a difficult thing to say
1:11:14that because interact with people on internet but I think one of the most exciting groups of people that I’ve got to interact with on the internet are the
1:11:20what I would call sort of Neo hermetic folks uh that are on the uh hermeticism subreddit who are big fans of you but
1:11:27also sort of Reviving a form of hermeticism and it’s it’s fascinating watching them interact with your work
1:11:34with my work as they grapple with that problem and I think that they they are willing to do that frankly spiritually
1:11:41athletic work it is you know it’s one thing for Scholars to reconstruct and talk about there another thing to try to
1:11:47live it and that’s an amazingly heroic I think and and deeply athletic thing
1:11:52spiritually I think I think what people are find so fascinating about it is that it is a western non-dualism those are
1:11:59rare since you know Plato in some sense and um there is something that combines
1:12:06to your point earlier something about the Machinery of Greek philosophy which is very very powerful with something of
1:12:14the spirituality or or whatever word we want to use of ancient Egyptian spiritual technology and that’s a that’s
1:12:21just a cocktail worth drinking Greek philosophy Egyptian spirituality in in this really deeply
1:12:28sympathetic synthetic form I think that just excites a lot of people because it’s a powerful monistic alternative to
1:12:36uh to something like the abrahamic faiths which have frankly done a lot of harm to a lot of people and so it gives
1:12:41them an Avenue in their own Western tradition to have access to a spiritual technology that combin so much of what
1:12:49people are craving and I think that’s why people are willing to do the in my opinion again very impressive very
1:12:55admirable work of bringing these Traditions back into a kind of of of Neo
1:13:01Neo hermeticism and uh I’m just incredibly impressed by by folks going to do that work yeah and the the the
1:13:08term spiritual technology is a very nice one it is also FCO uses an almost similar kind of term which is very
1:13:15applicable here and I think one the reason is simply that a lot of uh modern practitioners yeah they’re practitioners
1:13:20they’re maybe interested in Reading ancient text but they’re really interested in experience and practice
1:13:26they want to do it they want to have the experience themselves last week just last week fascinating I got an email
1:13:32from an guy in Venezuela that I don’t know who first wrote to me under a secret name uh an ritual name because
1:13:39he’s member of an uh of a society uh they they used they call themselves The
1:13:45University of alchemy uh in in Spanish and it turns out that these are people
1:13:51uh in Venezuela who are uh they he contacted me because he had read a book
1:13:56H but for years already um they have been uh practicing rituals uh with an Amazonian drink which
1:14:05some of you may know about uh aaska which is quite well known now and they are using iasa in a ritual setting so
1:14:13iasa has a mind altering uh effect and they are using the text of the corus mum
1:14:19as their basic template for drinking aasa in ritual content so they using Corpus 13 there is the hyn that they
1:14:27that about the D and all that and they’re doing this in order to um expel
1:14:34the demons from their body and and invite the forces of light into their body that’s what you read in Corpus 13
1:14:41and they really they’re just PR practicing this and so this is how how hermeticism you know continues in
1:14:48completely new context in Venezuela it’s a bit stronger than kofy incense I imagine uh yeah yeah right so yeah this
1:14:55was fascinating I heard this last week contact with and again that’s and I think what’s fascinating about that is that that the what of all the things we
1:15:03know about these spiritual Technologies was that they highly syncretistic and Technologies are all about what’s effective not Dogma yeah and so exactly
1:15:11like if it’s effective awasa is getting you to sose yeah I imagine that in Egypt if they had aaska you best believe that
1:15:18they they and they we do know they were using kofy incense and other kinds of things that have these kind of uh these kind of power so to me that’s that
1:15:25people say oh that’s a a weird Innovation I’m like that’s what technology is exactly yeah that’s might
1:15:31be actually the perfect place to interject my question because um while you were talking about um po Andre being
1:15:39identified as being Christ I was reminded of one of your recent YouTube videos where you were talking about uh
1:15:48Apostle Paul’s vision of uh Christ uh legitimizing him to be uh spreading
1:15:55gospel even though he never met him but you connected that to an ancient Jewish
1:16:00tradition of uh meraba meditation kind of things and there in that context I
1:16:06was wondering I I I was thinking about like this uh Rabbi from Israel Shannon
1:16:11who was thinking about that the ancient Israelites might have been drinking uh an anaa like from Syrian Ru and acaia
1:16:20wood where you can make DMT and like make a Sim kind of Brew so that there’s like the possibility and then like you
1:16:27have the other work of M resu recently uh immortality key about the early
1:16:34Christian sects being offshoots of uh mystery schools from the Greek world
1:16:40where it’s also really quite uh possible that they were eming certain uh concoctions uh that made them uh uh uh
1:16:49carried them to the Chariot of God or however you may call it in the uh so I was wondering how how you were
1:16:55thinking about this in uh uh the broader context of uh the the hermeticism and
1:17:01Altered States and the seccy behind it I mean I would say that there are
1:17:06certainly psychotropic substances being used whether it’s alcohol or kofy incense and other kinds of uh incenses
1:17:13that you know the cannaboids that were found recently at terod um certainly they’re being used the question is where
1:17:19do we have evidence for it and when we fill the gap of evidence of specul it’s really important to to name that as
1:17:25speculation the am Mystics never mentioned in we we get some list of the techniques they used but they’re they
1:17:31look a lot more like yoga than they do em bibing certain kinds of substances what I would say is though that the
1:17:38hermetica literature Ami literature there’s just a bunch of different Technologies of of as scent that are
1:17:45going on in this period And I think it’s in some level being motivated by the crisis of the thirr century and that by
1:17:52in the third in the third Century you had a lot of reasons to want to get out of town and the Jews had their way to get out of town and the hermic had their
1:17:58way to get out of town everybody’s looking for a way out of the crisis of the third century and I think that that
1:18:03that may be also part of it but for me it would be the question of where do we have evidence and when Theus tells us
1:18:10that this instance is being used we need to chase that to the very end and we need to be especially attentive of it
1:18:16because there’s been such an anti psychedelic anti uh uh anti-substance
1:18:23bias in Academia for so long but I think we need to double down on those efforts to to give that a fair play but find out
1:18:29what was really happening yeah you must find an uh find a middle ground here because because you’re quite right
1:18:36there’s no evidence in the hertica zero nothing uh in yamas you have a few
1:18:41references at one point twice he mentions some concoction something we do not know what it is uh and I do
1:18:48interpret yamus as an as an practitioner of the hertica so so that’s that’s
1:18:54puzzling it’s interesting but we simply don’t know more kufi instance yes there
1:18:59are some other things I talk about this but the evidence is very hard to interpret and it’s very minimal so I
1:19:06very very much agree with you we we we should not project these things on the on the materials if we don’t have
1:19:12evidence at the same time you’re also right there is this kind of anti- energetic uh kind of bias in scholarship
1:19:19which doesn’t want to see it at all um and I try to push back against that a
1:19:24little bit in my book on the other hand there’s also you mentioned by Mor rescu uh and other people there’s also an an
1:19:31other kind of bias which wants to see it everywhere and uh and Bayan is an I
1:19:37think an example of that it’s an interesting book but it’s full of rhetoric but the actual evidence is very
1:19:43very slight there’s one piece of evidence is very very interesting that he has has discovered for the for the Illini mysteries in Spain that is I
1:19:51think fascinating for the rest I’m not so not so convinced so I think we have to find a balance between this tendency
1:19:57of wanting to see anthens everywhere and wanting to see him nowhere I think we have to see them where they uh where we
1:20:03have evidence or where we are uh have good reason to assume that uh this is in
1:20:11credible hypothesis right I I tend to call this spectrum because I get comments that you know every episode I
1:20:17do I get it was DMT um and and I and I call this on the one hand this I call it second eliminativism where we want to
1:20:24eliminate all psychotropic drugs from history but the other is what I call DMT reductionism it was always just DMT and
1:20:30so I psycho psychedelic limi ISM uhuh but also DMT reductivism uhuh uh it’s
1:20:37it’s going to be more complicated than that I was always wondering like in uh uh I haven’t really found any references
1:20:43to this but every time I read uh in the Bible in Daniel 53 there’s this story
1:20:48about Nebuchadnezzar calling upon the the uh the the the barrels from the Temple of Solomon to be carried and then
1:20:56they drink from it and their knees start trembling and then the hand of God announces the Doom of his failed Kingdom
1:21:03and that sounds an awful lot uh about like a psychedelic trip gone wrong for
1:21:09Nebuchadnezzar uh so in that sense just a lot of wine yeah but like if you also see like
1:21:15evidence that in Galilee like lots of traveling Mystics From Galilee used lots of uh potions that had way more than
1:21:23just wine in the sense that so that’s that it’s like not that weird it’s like
1:21:28maybe modern I think we agree that we have to fight a middle yeah we yeah when we when
1:21:33when we see yamus use a word that we don’t understand then we have to stand in the presence of Unknowing and it at
1:21:40least again double down on the possibility and Chase it to the very end but often at least in my experience
1:21:47doing this research and about I don’t know about yours often the very end is I don’t know the evidence is simply inconclusive but there are cases I mean
1:21:54so the tendency of not wanting to see it at all I am discussing an the text uh in
1:21:59in the book which is not hermatic but it’s in the Greek magical papiery as they’re called the so-call Mithra litery
1:22:06and that’s an interesting case because there’s a F this is a famous text it has been commented on by many scholars it’s
1:22:13really a well studied text and well to the best of my knowledge I found almost
1:22:19nobody who mentions the anth theogenic component there and it actually contain
1:22:24there’s one fifth of the complete text uh consists of a recipe of how to make
1:22:29an psychedelic concoction it’s the recipe is there you have to take this you have to take that you have to put it
1:22:34together in this way Etc there are a couple of ingredients that are not identified so we cannot replicate it uh
1:22:40but there isn’t one fif of the text is a recipe and almost all the scholars have
1:22:47ignored it and I find that’s a a very strong example of of I agree or Dela
1:22:53there’s psychedelic drugs in delapa that people just ignore yeah yeah like he gets all this phrase but it’s like how
1:22:59to go insane for a day yeah well believe it or not we’re already running out of time so maybe the
1:23:06people who have already that you’ve already recognized and then I have one more question that I think we really
1:23:11need to ask before we let these two guys go thank you very much for your uh
1:23:17interesting lecture I have two questions one goes back to uh I think uh the
1:23:24comment you made about the the man who said he was both a hermeticist and a Christian I was wondering about what
1:23:32time uh that was written and uh that goes with how we receive
1:23:39hermeticism like whole Europe was Christian these texts are rediscovered
1:23:46they are cared for in such a way because they recognize each other they become
1:23:51great friends and I wonder how you see how that evolves if it does into the
1:23:57emergence of for example Rose chanism and then another question I have perhaps
1:24:03more uh for you vouter um if the hermeticist had this nonu VI and they
1:24:10didn’t have this uh um you know antagonism between matter and Spirit uh
1:24:17I was reading the tus of Plato and that’s quite difficult to get through
1:24:23but the the notion that that the the the
1:24:28the ideas are impregnated into the the matter the the sort of underlying
1:24:36substratum the Virgin matter of creation then giving rise to the Sun or the form
1:24:43how how that plays a role if it does in in the hermatic world view um those are
1:24:50my two questions thank you very much for your uh talks yeah I think here so Yus I think
1:24:56this is one of the key references for Yus and I do um I do interpret in my
1:25:01book yamas as an hermetic practitioner I go I’m very insistent with this he uh he
1:25:07talks about our hermetic mysteries in his book people have often wanted to keep him out of Egypt because Egypt is
1:25:13Magic and Superstition and he’s a philosopher so he shouldn’t go there but he actually went there I think he lived
1:25:19there and he studied there and I have Arguments for this and um uh and uh yeah
1:25:26so this is where you find this idea that’s that’s that’s the ideas or the
1:25:31The Good the beautiful and the true the ultimate realities have to be em have to get embodied into into matter uh so you
1:25:38find it there so yeah and the Tas is a key reference so I totally agree and you know the other question is yeah so this
1:25:45guy was lelli yes he was a Christian and uh interesting for him so this was the
1:25:501480s all right uh um but interesting was that um he was not interested in
1:25:56Plato he was not interested in other uh you know platonic philosophies Yas or whatever just just the Bible and the
1:26:04hertica that that was it was it for him that is what interested him and he uh he was reading his understanding of
1:26:11Christianity back into the hertica or maybe giving an hermatic interpretation of Christian whatever want you he want
1:26:19to see it and uh yes this was Radical and relatively new in the way that he did
1:26:25it and I would say also about the tus is that Plato there’s a there’s a Plato can
1:26:31never make his mind up in the in the fadis right matter is pretty evil and in the tus it’s just limited no matter how
1:26:38good of a builder you are if the thing you have to build with isn’t very good the house will always be imperfect it’s
1:26:44just a limitation so in the T it’s it’s a limitation it’s there’s no dualism in in the Tas Yus really wants to go with a
1:26:51full em ENT of the Soul just completely sunk into the body unlike platinus who
1:26:57wants to say not completely sunk right and you turn inward and I think that this is this is a tension inside of this
1:27:04is a tension inside of platonism that we don’t talk about because we talk about neoplatonism as if it’s a thing it’s an
1:27:1118th century invention that covers over the fact that this tension plays itself out in py and Yus and I think that yamus
1:27:18falls on the side of the Corpus of medum because the Corpus of medum is precisely what you argue it’s a text about the the
1:27:23the goodness of the world and precisely as embodiment and I think that’s why he leans hard on the tus and not so hard on
1:27:30the Fades Eddie leads also hard on the on the on the Symposium because in the
1:27:37Symposium DEA and I find it relevant that that an female um uh Priestess of
1:27:44the Mysteries is initiating Socrates there into what it is all about and this
1:27:50is not philosophy but it is erotica it is erotica it’s erotics and she explains
1:27:55what it’s all about and what she says it’s about um giving birth in beauty
1:28:01that is the formulation um so uh it is not about escaping from the world it’s it’s giving
1:28:08birth to the higher forces to the ideas into the world so she used the language
1:28:14of uh giving birth uh to explain what the key of of platonic wisdom is all
1:28:21about and I find is extremely uh significant uh for understanding the hertica we actually have a question from
1:28:28from somebody in the in the remote audience asking about if some of the if some of the um well-known platonists
1:28:36could have had um teachers who were versed in hermetic
1:28:41Traditions when one of the pl sorry of the platonic so for example um do you
1:28:47believe that someone like Pythagoras had teachers in Egypt that were well versed in the Hermetic tradition or ideas no
1:28:53that’s too early so Pythagoras is much earlier so the Hermetic writing that’s why I expanded I think the direction the
1:29:00person is going in is is can there be a real link there well there’s one interesting thing so so Pythagoras is
1:29:07much earlier than the htic writings so the Hermetic writings are second third Century the question is could the
1:29:12Hermetic writings come from an older tradition that’s much older than that and I uh I
1:29:20am cautiously tending towards uh the view that among other people Peter
1:29:26Kingsley has been promoting uh saying that there is an pagaran the tradition
1:29:31which ultimately goes back to Parmenides so you can trace a line from Parmenides
1:29:36that’s really early and Pagan Traditions that gets connected to uh to rtica there
1:29:43are many questions to be asked about it it is very it is speculative to a certain point it’s very hard to prove
1:29:49but I think there are reasons to take that hypothesis seriously so that doesn’t mean that her herar is influence
1:29:55influential on pythagoreanism but it could mean that pythagoreanism and also
1:30:01primes is one of the background uh ontologies or metaphysical system that go into hertica I tend to see I tend to
1:30:08see them mostly the the intellectual Machinery coming from middle platonism like numinus is I think the most direct
1:30:14person that the new the pythagore if you’ve never read numinus really read numinus next to uh the Corpus of medicum
1:30:21I think that’s the main intellectual power that things are coming from but also what’s really exciting is there’s a new addition out of the conversation of
1:30:28the House of life that’s a demonic text that is attributed to Toth it was used
1:30:33as an initiation probably as an initiation text written in Egyptian used in these temples and so we are getting
1:30:39at least a glimpse now into what was previously basically a black box of what are these Egyptian priests people like
1:30:46zosimos what are they doing in these temples from a from a lurgical and philosophical point of view in the
1:30:51Egyptian I language the text is very difficult but I do think that that’s an Avenue of research that I’m super
1:30:57excited about uh hi I have a question about I’m
1:31:03here hi uh I I have a question about the technical hermetica because uh we’ve
1:31:10been mostly talking about the um the philosophical or spiritual hermetica but
1:31:16um I don’t know that much about technical hermetica other than that they are also attributed to Herm
1:31:22but I think some of those are actually a little bit older than uh the philosophical her I’m right uh but they
1:31:29always feel like quite separate things to me and also yeah tonight is an
1:31:35example because we’ve been mostly talking about philosophical hereda like how closely were they connected and did
1:31:41the technical Armeda play a part in the Quest for nosis uh for pract
1:31:47practitioners um for example in classical times or in Renaissance like did it travel a bit of a similar path
1:31:56uh such as the philosophical Meda I mean I I guess what I would say
1:32:01is I would I I think I would agree with bter and I would say I just want to challenge the distinction between philosophical spiritual and Technical
1:32:07hertica and say that that the technical hertica Tech like the corini something like that are some of these alchemical
1:32:14and astrological texts part of what’s motivating them to be attributed to heris magistus is the idea of the
1:32:21goodness of the world and by studying the goodness of the world through Alchemy or astrology one enlivens one’s
1:32:28noose to to Behold The Glory the beauty and through IIA reverence of the world
1:32:35and therefore I would say that the distinction between the the soteriological hermetica or the
1:32:42philosophical hereda and the technical hermetica are actually just a Continuum one actually makes the other possible
1:32:48because at some level if the world is just bad if you’re I don’t know if you’re radical dualist why study this thing it’s just a giant clock driven a
1:32:54bunch of by evil damn archons like like why would I get out but if it’s like no
1:33:00it’s this is part of the beauty of the world and I experienced that through reverence and that’s part of the road to
1:33:07Salvation then this this this distinction just breaks down and I think that that that breakdown is is a very
1:33:14important thing we need to be begin doing is separating take showing these as as as a hand and a glove and not
1:33:21technical versus one actually makes the other possible yeah there’s there’s some continuity I would say it’s a spectrum
1:33:28and uh there is a middle ground where where you it’s harder to say whether it’s technical or spiritual it’s both
1:33:33and zos is a good example so the the practi the practitioner of alchemy uh
1:33:39whom I interpret as an as an hermetic practitioner next to yamas and so he was
1:33:44working in Laboratories all the time that of us is work and I find it hard to to believe and it’s that I think is also
1:33:52so consistent with what we know of socios it’s hard to believe that somebody who is insistently working with
1:33:58matter all the time would have a totally anti perspective and he has often been
1:34:04seen as agnostic against matter stereotypical agnostic against matter
1:34:09but that doesn’t make sense I think you have to see him also as a spiritual practitioner for whom you’re trying to
1:34:16uh discover the secrets the mysteries of matter uh which and affected from a
1:34:22dualistic point of view the whole breakdown between M the the whole distinction between matter and spirit
1:34:27breaks down and uh you’re just working with one of the same thing um yeah well
1:34:34you’ve both hit on things that um you know need to be worked on and can definitely uh be delved into further and
1:34:41so I wanted to ask you both what you would like to explore in the future and what do you think are the kind of the
1:34:46big questions that still need to be to be investigated
1:34:52I who goes first I guess what I would say what
1:34:57excites me is one the discovery and publication of Egyptian literature and looking at how Egyptian literature is
1:35:03tying into this literature and two more work needs to be done on the technical hereda because I think that getting
1:35:10there’s so much of that in Arabic and so much of that uh in in syak that we we
1:35:15tell a story of of uh Egypt Greece Thomas aquinus and I’m like hold on
1:35:23what what about the you the brethen of Purity and what about and so there’s a story about the transmission of all that
1:35:28that you know went into bdad and the B hikma and without telling that story uh
1:35:34we have two legs of a stool and I think that’s uh I don’t want to sit on that stool so the so so these big gaps in
1:35:42transmission yeah and and also trans gaps in Innovation what do the brethen of Purity do what are they what’s going
1:35:48on in the natine and agriculture how are they transforming her from being what it is in this text to
1:35:54now being the prophet Enoch and how is this how is the spirituality and the spiritual technology adapting to new
1:36:00environments especially in uh in the near East yeah I would say something similar to what you you just said I
1:36:06think uh one of the major challenges is to change our narratives and not just uh
1:36:11the narratives about heraa but in order to interpret them in a better new way we have to uh get rid of a whole range of
1:36:20uh old-fashioned eurocentric uh narratives of progress
1:36:26that uh say that uh basically everything you know philosophical and good comes
1:36:32from Greece Etc and uh marginalizes everything that comes from Egypt Etc and
1:36:38is superstitious and magical Etc these are very deeply ingrained narratives in the standard ways of of uh thinking of
1:36:45academics in my work on the hermetica I’ve been fighting constantly with with the power of those Nar narratives so
1:36:52Scholars have kept projecting narratives of Greek superiority on hertica and you
1:36:57completely get it wrong when you do that uh they have been been projecting uh Christian and biblical narratives on
1:37:04their hertica the hertica Are pagan there is not a trace of Christianity in it and uh very very little Judaism a
1:37:11little bit but very very little they’re basically Pagan and uh but nevertheless
1:37:17Scholars have have projected the entire Genesis Narrative of the fall of Man into matter under hermetica he thought
1:37:24it was there and it wasn’t there and the for generation for Generations people have kept repeating that narrative so we
1:37:30have we have to get rid of a lot of these narratives and another one and it links to what you said so you mentioned
1:37:35the bre of Nar the Breen of Purity and all many of these things in the Islamic world we have to um look at Western
1:37:43culture uh in a much more inclusive way which which includes the whole transmission of pagan pagan Traditions
1:37:52uh Judaism Christianity and Islam so we have to get rid of this idea that uh Judaism and Christianity belongs to the
1:37:59west and Islam doesn’t belong there if you want to act actually understand how these things work you have to see this
1:38:05in a much broader context and include a whole largely unexplored field of the
1:38:11transmission of esoteric and hermetic literature in the Islamic world as well so you need to have the languages you
1:38:17need to have uh have you need to look at at at Arabic and Persian and syak and
1:38:23all these languages and there’s tons of work to be done there yeah yeah really
1:38:28really basic stuff to I know a lot of visitors are are are surprised to hear
1:38:33that um Knowledge from from Egypt had anything to do with the Renaissance well okay God forbid have
1:38:41some things to tell them then yeah yeah well everyone please join me in
1:38:46thanking these two
1:38:58[Applause]
1:39:05well before I let you go I’d like to make just a couple of quick announcements our next lecture is on the
1:39:1113th of July and we’ll be talking about hermetica again we have Marat Nasser
1:39:17here she’s a very interesting lady an Egyptian lady lady who had a a career in
1:39:23in um London and is now using her substantial wealth to build something called her mopis in central Egypt um
1:39:32building on and commemorating um this this this culture and these events that happened a millennia ago um so she’ll be
1:39:39here to present her project to us um and I also want to mention that starting in September we’re going to have an online
1:39:46lecture series on the thought of Jung Carl Yung and un Burma so keep your eyes
1:39:53open for that um but please join us now in the cafe uh for a beverage and I think the garden is maybe open as well
1:40:00so we can chat there thank [Applause]
1:40:17you
Transcription without Timestamps
I GOT TO TELL YOU NOW THE SHIP IS READY WAITING ON THE SHELF.
[Music] [Music] a lesson that I’ve learned in my short life thus far is that if we let others Define what success is for us we never achieve it however if we Define what success means to us and for us regardless of social political or economic expectations then we might have a chance this summer I got to experience a real bit of success what it feels like for me for this channel for the project of esotera I got to join in a roundt discussion with a personal hero of mine professor professor vouter hanrath at an institution I also deeply admire and Revere the embassy of the free mind also known as the Ritman library to discuss a topic that has long fascinated me the philosophy and spirituality of hermeticism of course Professor hanuka’s work has transformed the field of the study of wosa terorism and frankly it speaks for itself though I remember being young person in my late teens probably and finding his work in the late 1990s and think to myself my God you can study all this cool esotericism stuff with rigor with scientific academic rigor and that that still motivates me down to this day further when I discovered there was an entire vast Library where esoteric wisdom was collected in the very antiquarian volumes and manuscripts that first brought that light to this world I resolved I resolved that I would go there and I would study that material come what may among the same canals that dayart and Spinosa once tried so on a very very warm evening I got to experience a bit of what success is for me to speak on a topic dear to me with a personal hero in a space I hold with reverence among a crowd of absolutely wonderful like-minded people and some of the most wonderful dear friends I’ve met in the recent years so I want to introduce you to this conversation by encouraging you to head over to the Embassy of the free Minds YouTube channel and their website and subscribe subscribe to their content you can find the links below and in the description if you like the content we put forward here at esoterica you’ll enjoy their content immensely indeed we share a common goal making as a teric wisdom accessible with scholarly rigor secondly I’d encourage you to support their work by picking up some of the items from their web shop for instance this two volume Christ Plato Hermes Tris magistus volume is one of my absolute favorite books it is a veritable catalog of hermetic and mystical wisdom documenting the first 50 years of printing it’s like having a portable Museum but for topics that esoterica specializes in it’s well worth picking up I think you can get a copy of this two volume hardback really really amazingly bound and printed document for like 50 bucks now we recorded a lot of material at the Ritman Library so I’ll be rolling out some of that soon as well so if you like esoteric spirituality really really beautiful old books and a 17th century Dutch mansion on the canals of Amsterdam stay tuned but with special thanks to everyone at the embassy of the free m especially Dr lenda Martin here is my conversation with Professor hanra on hermeticism then and [Music] now okay okay sorry about the technical difficulties we’ve uh We’ve consulted and determined it was the Hermetic dionis who were infiltrating our sound system let me start over uh for those at home I’m Lucinda Martin I’m the director of the Ritman Research Institute and the bibla philosophica hermetica the library of hermetic philosophy and this evening we have a round table which we’re calling Hermes yesterday and today now as I said before our library used to be one of the few places to study hermetic discourses and traditions these things were long viewed as Superstitious by Academia and by mainstream churches and thus seen as Unworthy of of attention in the meantime Scholars have begun to realize the contributions of hermetic streams of thought to the cultural history of humanity and last November our library was added to the UNESCO memory of the world register because of the contributions some of our authors have made to the development of modern human rights in 2017 the Ritman family established a museum the embassy of the free mind which is where we are this evening to teach the general public about the content of the library we present exhibitions and we offer lectures and seminars and even a Children’s Program you might therefore say that the kind of event that we’re hosting tonight is in our DNA it brings together two of the most prominent voices about hermetic traditions and discourses one operating in Academia and one specialized in communicating to the public and those are also our two concerns Val Jan is Professor of the history of hermetic philosophy and related streams of thought at the University of Amsterdam he has many scholarly Publications including his most recent book hermetic spirituality and the historic imagination just Sledge is the creator of the YouTube channel esoterica which has more than 300,000 followers this evening we want to explore the past present and future of hermetic streams of thought and their study what role they’ve played in history what they mean to people today and what questions are open that still need to be answered about this subject each of our speakers will give a short presentation and then we want to open the discussion to as many questions as possible both from our live and our remote audience in this way we hope to include the perspectives of academics practitioners and anyone interested in this fascinating subject with that please join me in welcoming vouter and [Applause] Justin start okay well thank you very much for the nice introduction uh first of all and it’s very nice to be here again in the riton library a place where uh I’ve been coming uh since uh the end of the 80s the 1980s and um which is really the place uh where you can study the Hermetic literature uh there’s no better place no other place in the world which is as um as Central to this kind of research as this place here so this is so I’m very happy to be here again um what I would like to do just in 15 minutes is uh just give an very short uh introduction to what our hertica are all about for somewhat larger audience many people in the audience here might already know what it’s all about more or less but maybe the larger audience doesn’t so um what are Thea all about I’d like to uh tell a little bit about this um by while at the same time also telling you about my my personal interest and my own own development in my uh encounters my encounters with th greatest herish herish Trish magistus the um the legendary author of the Hermetic writings uh I encountered the carpus hermeticum the most Central text of hermetic writings uh by the end of the 1980s uh in a Dutch translation which was made possible by the biblo of philosophic hertica here in Amsterdam and the translation of the carpatica made by uh um rulof Brook and K whel which was uh of great importance for uh you know calling attention to the hertica in in the Dutch context I got fascinated I read these texts I was wondering what is it all about I couldn’t really make out entirely what they were all about there were many things that puzzled me about him but I got fascinated and hooked about this text um and um what is clear in any case these are texts that are attributed to an legendary author Hermes mesus or in which this legendary author or wisdom teachers plays a central role uh they were written in the second third centuries of the Common Era more or less uh in Greek and um um but they were written in Egypt and this combination of Egypt and Greek is interesting and and important for understanding what arar are all about because uh when you think of Greece then you think usually about Greece Greek culture as the origin of Greek rationalism Greek philosophy Etc and many people think that the whole of Western civilization began in Greece right so Greece has this kind of iconic status of the or as the origin of Western philosophy uh and rationalism but then these these texts were written in Egypt and Egypt is often seen as the counterpart in that respect Egypt is often perceived as the home of everything that’s not rational and not philosophical but uh that has to do with magic and Superstition and all kind of things that were seen as the counterpart of rationality and so the fact that her hetic writings were written precisely in Egypt but in Greek and in Greek which uses a lot of philosophical language is fascinating so you have these these two countries Egypt and Greece together so to speak in uh one carpus of text hertica these Texs are attributed to this legendary teacher um and uh they are all about the search for gnosis ultimate knowledge knowledge about the true nature of reality the true nature of God and the true nature of ourselves and um to already you know give you very shortly the answer of um what the quest prognosis is all about the ultimate um um answer that our hermetic uh authors gave to the question what is reality is all about what is the true nature of reality was that they said everything is light there is only one reality spiritual light which is universal and um God is light reality is light and the human being is light the only thing that really exists is light Universal light and they call that the Noose with a Greek word um now of course when we’re sitting here do you look at each other and we are looking we standing in a room here and you see people you see beautiful pictures at the walls Etc you’re not seeing light uh you’re you’re seeing all kind of objects and people um why is that well that is because according to the hertica uh we are not actually perceiving reality as it really is we are diluted so our state of consciousness in which we find ourselves is a diluted State a state of state of hallucination and this is these are really appropriate terms uh a state of hallucination in which we see things that seem very real but are not ultimately real because the only thing that’s really real is universal light that’s also a kind of core uh belief of the htic authors um so the question is how do we uh uh wake up from the state of delusion and illusion in which we find ourselves in which we think this is reality and how do we find our way towards a true perception of the true nature of reality which is universal light that was really what the way of Hermes was all about and that is what you find in the Hermetic literature so in the Hermetic literature you find the description of what uh is often described as the path of Hermes or the way of Hermes in which um the authors and practitioners who wrote these texts where describing how you can uh Free Yourself liberate yourself from delusionary perceptions of reality and find your way to gnosis of reality as it really is that’s a kind of a core summary of what oura are all about these are unique profound very fascinating text I have been studying them for decades now and this is in Corpus of text that you can keep reading there are many text that you might come across when you read them a couple of times you know what they’re all about these are text that you can keep reading because they always keep surprising you I’ve uh written a pretty thick book about him um and been doing little else then studying the herar for five or six years I’m absolutely sure if I uh start reading the text the text again I will again discover new things that I didn’t see before uh because this is how fascinating and multi levs levels leveled their hetic text are so these are Classics these are Classics um to say something else also about the reception of the Hy because these a Tex from the second third Century late Antiquity uh Egypt and the Roman Empire very long time ago uh many things happened with armatic writings over the centuries they got translated they got copied by scribes Etc a lot can be said about it but an highlight of the Revival of the Hermetic uh literature came in the 15th century when the Greek texts uh especially the text that is known as the Corpus hermeticum uh got translated into Latin by one of the great humanists in the uh of the Renaissance marcelio ficino and this famous translation came out in 1471 uh known as the Pander uh the book on the wisdom and uh power of God the famous translation of the carum now I got fascinated by uh the reception and the translation of the hertica in the Renaissance in the spirit uh in 1997 and that’s maybe a nice small story to tell of how very small things that happen in your life can totally change your life forever and because I was living in Paris at that time uh I was one evening I was visiting a friend of mine famous scholar of the study of esotericism antoan f uh who’s an pioneering St scholar in our field I was having a nice evening at home with him and I was looking um at a little glass case that he had in his room which had a collection of very old books uh very valuable old books the kind of books that you find here in the Ritman library and one of them caught my interest for some reason I took it out it turned out to be in French translation from from the 16th century of hermetic literature and um and somehow something tickled my interest and I still think if I hadn’t taken that book out my life would have changed completely would have been and I would not have done most of the things that I actually have done I asked Onan fa can I borrow this book well it’s a valuable 16th century text with he amazingly uh you know allowed me to take it home or with me to my room uh that I had in Paris and I took it with me and I was reading it uh in reading it in b i very well remember this I couldn’t make out most of it it was written in 16th century French very difficult uh I didn’t understand most of it but I understand some of it and I noticed there’s something about this text there’s something fascinating about it it’s a kind of an intuition that you can have sometimes I want to know more about this two weeks later I went to Amsterdam and I went to the bi of philosophic hertica here and I met an a neolatin translator who happened to be sitting there with born uh who was translating hermatic text into Dutch and I asked what are you what what are you doing and he said uh well I’m translating a text by looo lelli and then a little bell went off my head because I had been reading this French text and this had been written by La lazel that is the French the frenchification so to speak of lovic larell and so this was a coincidence I thought I want to know more about loo latari I started working with with born and we ended up translating all the works by latari uh from Latin into English wrote a large introduction about it and published a book about this and why was this so important well uh why was this so fascinating uh to me and why do I think it is important to say something about about larell well there is the famous there’s a famous narrative that has been told about their htic Traditions by and the Hermetic tradition by Francis Yates an great scholar uh who published an Masterpiece in 1964 jordano Bruno and the hetic tradition in which she argued that the htic that the translation of the hertica in the 15th century um was a momentous event in cultural history uh the translation that fito made of the Corpus ticum changed the nature of the Renaissance it introduced Magic uh and learned discourse about magic into the intellectual culture and it had a huge impacts on the entire early modern periods and gave um the starting point in many ways according to Francis Yates to the Scientific Revolution which for finally led to the modern world so she created she made this beautiful large Grand narrative about the enormous impact of the Hermetic literature the Hermetic tradition which um all started with the Trans translation of the scorpus herum in 14 1471 now I was reading this L larel this L larell and I was looking him up in Franc Jade’s famous book and I could hardly find him he was mentioned here and there in a few foot notes but what I discovered was that this unknown guy lelli had been the second translator of the carpus ticum next to uh to ficino he had written some treatises that had not been included by ficino so it was not just ficino who translated the carpus it was also lelli um so I wanted to know more about lelli and to cut a very long story short short because I just have a few more minutes um it’s basically turned out that by looking at one forgotten figure that’s already in this case when you actually start studying him and contextualize him and learn about him and learn about his work you discover that the basic normative standard narrative that had so impressed countless people The Narrative by Francis Yates had to be revised and her whole story well turned out to be very different from reality so uh basically on the basis of lell I came to the what I discovered at that occasion was how strongly Scholars with their interpretation of ancient text can determine the way that we look at history and sometimes their interpretations are wrong and have to be revised and then suddenly the whole picture changes that uh that Discovery has always always stayed with me um the whole story of the Hermetic tradition that Francis Jades was telling had had to be revised on the basis of new discoveries of an unknown hermatic author L lelli uh much more recently beginning in 2015 more or less I decided to finally go back to this mysterious uh hermetic text themselves the text that were written in the second and the third century and really studied them very very very carefully going back to the Greek the Greek Originals looking at all the translations the footnotes the commentaries and whatever is there reading all the secondary literature and again I found that um if you uh if you delve deep into this text then you find that they are very profound they’re very deep there’s you you keep discovering do things about them but what struck me most is that again the way that we look at this text uh is often determined by the narratives that in this case 20th century Scholars have put on these text and often these narratives are wrong and again in this case I have been arguing and maybe we can talk a bit more about it later that uh we have to look at this whole whole hermatic literature of for Antiquity in a radically different way from how we used to the text and that is my final part of my little talk these text have often been described as the philosophical hertica so this which which suggest these are philosophical texts um I’ve come to the conclusion that these are actually not philosophical texts they use philosophical language Greek philosophy they use elements from the from Plato and and platonic philosophy but they are not interested in resolving philosophical questions in a way that standard philosophers are usually doing they’re interested in something else they’re using philosophy in order to find uh answers to the question of what is the ultimate nature of reality but most of all to find answers to how can we heal ourselves from our deluded Consciousness and how can we find the way back to a direct perception of reality as it really is so I’ve proposed to refer to this uh Corpus of philosophical hertica as spiritual hertica this is not these are not philosophical text these are what I call spiritual text which uh are uh centrally uh devoted to uh trying to transform our interior Constitution to transform ourselves to transform our minds and our whole Consciousness in such a way that we uh get liberated from deluded perceptions of the world and actually discover how reality really is that is uh that is what these texts in my view are all about final thing I want to say is that um so the Ultimate Reality that you discover by means of gnosis that is the central method of Thea is that there’s only one reality and that is light Universal light at the same time uh very often Scholars have have suggested that this means that human beings according to Thea have to liberate ourselves from matter from the material world from the body and find our way back to an non-material and other worlds of pure spirituality but I found that this is actually not what texts say they’re actually about embodiment they’re not about escaping from the world towards other spiritual reality of pure light they’re actually about making contact with that reality and then channeling it into this world so the herar is actually an extremely World affirming positive worldview that celebrates the beauty of existence the beauty of reality and uh doesn’t teach us to escape from the world but actually U tries to teach its practitioners to transform the world to make it better to make it more beautiful and to make it more true um so nonduality the reality of one reality of Light which is the only reality that really exists One Core element of Thea and the other core core element is the task of trying to channel that Universal light into our material world and um that I think is the core uh concept are the Core Concepts of thetic htic spirituality that you find here and as Scholars and that is what I do in my daily life you can uh Trace how these text with this strange and often misunderstood message get uh interpreted reinterpreted passed on often misunderstood or creatively re interpreted in all kind of ways through the century until we reach the present day and the reinterpretation of the hertica is still going on at this moment in all kind of alternative spiritual circles and maybe we will talk about this also with Justin sletch about this so that was my small introduction thank you um what I want to talk about is a bit what valter mentioned um there’s sort of what hermeticism was and sort of what hermeticism was in the ancient world but there’s also how we’ve received hermeticism what it was and how we received it are quite different things as you can imagine and what prompted this at some level was me thinking about how I use the word hermetic when I’m sitting down writing scripts for esoterica and what I discovered was that I use it in all kinds of completely different ways this word took on so many valences of meaning and I began to ask myself where did some of these valences come from and I think that question is incredibly complicated and I’m going to give you one tiny answer to where I think that may have come from and where that answer comes from I think at some level that answer is very overdetermined and this is just one piece of that puzzle perhaps a footnote that could have been a valter’s book in fact is that we often find the Corpus syum and hermetic literature traveling with other texts often Scholars will talk about the Corpus of medicum as if it’s sort of floating alone by itself and in some editions it did but in a great many editions especially editions that were very decisive and very popular the Corpus herum is moving alongside as a fellow traveler to other texts and as you can imagine you know many folks here have been painted like The Fringe you keep The Company You Keep we begin to be painted as the company we keep for better and and force so this text is a very important text in the history of all of this this is a 1497 uh Aldine this is if you even folks here may recognize the type of Aldis monut uh this is a platonic primer This was meant to be a a text basically that you would pick up and you would read before you read ficino’s complete translation of Plato now what’s important about this text iside the fact it’s the first time that yamus appears in print this is where he gets famously the title day Myster e that you see a complete interesting collection not yet with the Corpus ticum but a very interesting collection of all kinds of texts that when you look at them I bet you look at them and go hermetic right you kind they give you sort of hermetic Vibes even though the Corpus hermeticum isn’t there but we have is De mysteres by yamus we have the commentary on the alabes we have Pro’s book on sacrifice and Magic what’s also important about this is that many of these texts veilance this collection a little bit magicky there a little bit magicky veilance to these texts so on deities and diamonds on dreams on diamonds by Michael celis this is a famous sort of textbook of demonology a Christian text no less uh one of the few only Christian texts in here we go through and we get or a kind of grab bag of platonic literature neoplatonic literature Pythagorean literature that all is going to set the stage for marcelio ficino’s translation of Plato’s Opera now this text does not yet contain the Corpus hedum but it will in just a moment but again if you take a look at these texts they’re already beginning to take on some of the effects of what we Mal began to think about as kind of the thing that aen Renaissance megus would want to pick up in fact if I were a Renaissance megus I would be the first person in line to buy this compendium in 1516 right and this to FYI see I can pop back this is just two years before ficino dies right so just to get an idea and also it contains one text by ficino at the very end just FYI so already establishing and just FYI the Aldine press is funded by money from uh from the deorta family so giovan deorta is actually knee deep in this from the very beginning and the Aldine press which is quite famous one of the most beautiful presses of all time is already pumping out a book by ficino in 1497 just a couple of year before he dies in 1516 this Edition is greatly expanded and the AL press logo is put right beneath it now for my book nerds in the room and I imagine there’s at least one of you the symbol of the Aline press is a symbol of extreme quality when you you want to think about the engine of the Renaissance it’s the Aldine press they are pumping out Greek and Latin text and accessible easy to read very easy to read relatively inexpensive volumes and the Aline press will eventually give us small books that will become the background for we now called paperbacks if you wanted access to Old wisdom add Fontes back to the sources the alme Press was your go-to and when the alme Press printed something it meant it was worth reading was a classic it was one of the sources and there it is right in the middle now of oops I’m sorry I don’t have it written out here but right at the very heart of this text is now murky Tris megisti Pander it’s now at the center of it in fact I have this at home if you open it up to the center hermus magistus is now at the Beating Heart of a platonic reader right follows it is the escolapios and then a grab bag mostly of ficino all ficino but many of ficino things taken from his three books on life many of which deal with quasi medical quasi magical ways of living the text is now even more leaning in the direction of something like what a Renaissance Megos would want including at Beating Heart now Hermes Tris magistus so with the Pander is now sitting at the very heart of what would be the book you would want if you were a John D if you were Gino de Bruno if you were someone like that this text is decisive in the history of all this because this is one of the first times where the Pander will be printed with other texts and this Edition in some form of fashion is going to become one of the most best-selling editions of the corpus sedicum now when we talk about editions of a corpus fum we might say this is 11th edition of the Corpus fum the 11th Edition when you hear that what you’re hearing is it’s the 11th edition of the Corpus medicum as if the corpor amicum is by itself it’s not it’s now traveling with a collection of books that are now shaping what hermeticism is what adantes means so when you read books like when you bury procol’s book on Magic and cel’s book on demons right next to Pythagoras and that’s now beginning to color what hermetic is going to mean hermetic is now taking on AV veillance because now it’s traveling with other books that are now coloring what it’s going to look like the 15 16 Edition would be now would be the last time that the Aldine press would pick this up the next edition of the Corpus medicum the very next edition of the Corpus medicum right would now be printed in 1532 now switched over to basil and now look what’s happened all the ficino’s been dropped so is the Michael cellus on demons maybe that made some people uncomfortable demons have a tendency to do that and yamus and Pander have switched pride of place he now is no longer at the center of the collection he is now at the top and many of the things have been dropped but not yamus not procus including on spirits and on Deon and on sacrifice and Magic probably one of the most popular books about sort of occultism in the in the Middle Ages this Edition with one with one change we’ll see in just a minute this one right here is also very important because it follows a different manuscript tradition than the 14 Infamous 1471 edition of the Pander this Edition never achieved great success as an addition however this addition did beginning in uh 1549 this the center of location for this printing is now going to be switched over into France in this Edition as you can see has now switched yamus for p of place now he’s now at the front again and now heres Tris mistas bookends the text Michael CIS has made a return on demons has come back and what we have still poery and procus notice how much more magically inclined this collection is now than the first one it’s almost the plurality of the text we’re dealing with demons and magic and Hermes Tris magistus is now the bookend of the text this Edition beginning in 14 1549 would go into I haven’t counted them yet but there would be editions printed almost every five years through the 17th century think about that time period about 1549 into the sort of mid 17th century that’s the time period where we see a huge explosion in the interest of people like d and things like that this text I think would have been the goto text that you wanted to go to to get access to this literature this was a octavo Edition very small inexpensive if you wanted a copy of the of the Hermes Tris magistus if you wanted access to that ad Fontes you picked it up here now think about this from the point of view of the reader to get to the Herm you have to cross this path if you’re reading the book cover to cover imagine imagine the primed imagine what you’re thinking as a reader as your mind has been primed through this reading and by the time you get to the to the Pander imagine to valter’s point imagine what you are now receiving you are now reading the Pander through this prism and I think that’s an incredibly important prism to understand when we think about an addition of the Corpus ticum we have to think about how Not only was it received but literally how it was read in a book at that time understanding the book culture shapes how the understanding of these texts happened and without understanding that book culture and this literature as it’s put into this configuration I think that tells us a great deal or at least gives us part of a clue about how this hermeticism whatever that means is going to be received by readers and by people like who are going to be practicing hermeticism just to drive this point home and to make it a little bit more ancient and more I may perhaps more interesting uh this is the Edition this is the text from the 1549 I think would be an interesting thing for my folks out there who are mystically inclined toward hermeticism would be put yourself back into the 1550s go meet all your 1550s buddies start a reading group and then read these texts in this order and see what it would have felt like intellectually to work through yamus and to come through the Plato commentary on Plato’s alabes which by the way is never the Plato’s albies is never read now I’ve went through five years of graduate school in philosophy and the only thing we ever learned about it was Plato probably didn’t write it right but I tell you this you know what the first book you read if you signed up to a neoplatonism class by yamus you read the alabes everybody read the alabes now nobody does aside from Specialists so and this by the way is a commentary on uh particularly a commentary by procas on the alabes I challenge you if you’re interested in in this read those read these books in this order because that’s how someone like John D would have picked this book up and he had this on a shelf by the way this is how he would have read it so Gathering these books from from the past we have to think about Hermes Tris mistas and the Pander and his wisdom as not isolated into one book or one system of books but buried among other books and relating intellectually and gaining avalance from these other books this is nothing new if we rind all the way back to the nagamati library the only other place in Antiquity really where we find hermetic text in C2 in the actual volumes the physical Coptic volumes we also find hermetic literature writing along other literature nagamma codex 6 is a weird codex I know that the nagamma Codex are all kind of weird but the nagati Codex 6 is especially unusual it’s the only one to have an Max Thunder perfect mind is unlike any other text in the nagamati library for folks who know it it’s beautiful maybe one of those beautiful texts of the ancient world the authoritative discourse and the concept of our great power are also very odd kinds of text you probably even if you’re interested in nostic ISM you probably haven’t heard much about them they’re relatively brief and they’re relatively odd texts there’s a random chunk of the Republic which has a very interesting veillance when it’s been translated into Coptic and then the last three texts are hermetic I would say and argue that this is not new in the same way that we can look through the printing history of the Corpus medicum we could probably assume at some level at least from this one piece of evidence that it may have not even in the ancient world traveled by itself it may have always been a kind of ancient traveler and what that means at some level is that whatever hermetic meant and valter’s point whatever hermetism was in IPO in itself it probably always also Flo as a signifier it probably meant something different in different communities in different textual contexts it certainly meant something you know what connection and when the when the when the the Codex writer was putting this together what connection in their mind connected Thunder perfect mind to the discourse of the V and the inot I don’t know and I don’t think it was random but I don’t know and that’s a great place to at least speculate why put them in this codex and so what I want to say as sort of a conclusion to wrap this up is that the hermeticism that anyone has inherited is always floated in this way it seems like we have evidence in the late Antiquity for this we have evidence in the history of printing for this and I think that what’s fascinating and what’s exciting about that is that on the one hand we can do a great links to do what I what I would call forensic philosophy the great work that valter has done in his recent book to sort of forensically reconstruct hermeticism as it was in these texts and which interesting I think voucher in your work is how also you take some text and put them sort of closer to the periphery of what hermetism was and some outside of it right and even that and I think that’s an interesting part of this like you have now also entered in sort of rearranged them in a way that you think makes the most sense and I like the fact that we could throw your yeah you could throw the diagram up here as well and it will be part of this history of how we’ve rearranged them to make them the hermetism we think is the authentic hermetism yeah uh and I think that that’s a great and I find your read very compelling but it’s an interesting part of sort of the how we put these things together we could throw valters up there as well but what that means is that we have hermeticism in Hermes and hermus megistus as something like we might call floating signifiers they mean something it doesn’t you can’t say anything’s hermetic but the exact meaning is always determined at some level by how we receive it and how we receive it is often in history been through these bundles of wisdom not a not in itself a bundle of wisdom and that’s exciting because it means that whatever hermetism is or was it’s not hermetically closed it’s hermetically open thank you well the cogs are turning with uh all the information you’ve both given us um I think you’ve really given us a good introduction to um what the original practitioners of hermetic religion we’re after um and centuries later we’ve heard something about the reception um obviously this is not just a gap of time it’s a gap between relived religion and reception through texts um and I I wonder what what needs these discourses these traditions this religion or these thoughts have served over the over the centuries and I think we can even extend that to Scholars I mean this served something for Francis Yates as well yeah yeah so I just be curious about both your thoughts about that one thing I was thinking listening to your to your wonderful story a story about how these texts travel is uh is that in a certain way you are uh giving New Life to maybe to something of Fran Shades narrative because I’ve been deconstructing Franc Shades narrative and you’re in a certain way reconstructing it by saying this uh this hermatic literature uh was read as close connection with magic right with with magical text and text about demons etc etc and so the interesting thing is that if you actually read the Corpus herum in the translation by ficino they you find there’s no magic in it there’s no magic anywhere um so you find magic in the escalus but not in the carpus ofum and um so and also another thing is also that uh it um that that has been a bit bit forgotten but fito strangely enough he translated it because because kimoi told him you have to translate it well if you’re MOS tells you that you translate it uh that’s very clear so he did it but uh it seems that he wasn’t very interested and K also seems to they do not seem to have been so impressed by the Corpus and meum they made no effort to translate to to printed wasn’t printed it got printed in 171 Years Later by a pirate in a pired copy uh by two other humanists who just rested through the press and um FICO himself never tried to publish it so I always get the impression that uh for them the Corpus was a bit of a disappointment actually uh didn’t offer them what they had thought it would give them but then it gets caught up in the whole you know what what you’ve been telling us all these uh all these new prints and new additions that travel with a text and you get this kind of this kind of uh yeah hermatic magical hermatic you know constellations and uh and that is what Francis Shades talks about would that make sense I think so and I think and if I could rewind this I would go back to one of these slides and we look at that collection and to us I think we think all that makes sense all that makes sense together Pythagoras and Michael celus and ficino and all that but if you actually read those books they don’t sit comfortably together yamus didn’t agree with poery Michael cettus was a Christian if you look at these texts by ficino wasn’t really interested in in in hermatic ideas it doesn’t seem like they had a huge impact on him what’s interesting to me is that the printer thought they made sense to go together and that we look at them and they make sense together to us but intellectually they are it’s a very tense conversation and I think what’s interesting right is that what I’d point out is a dialectic actually between Francis the8 saying they’re all connected and I’m saying they’re connected but the connection actually isn’t natural it’s a connection that makes sense that made sense to a printer and what’s interesting is that we’ve inherited their decisions it sounds like it was a marketing decision it could have been it could have been clickbait right like demons and mistas he could have been Renaissance clickbait for all I know but um who demons and and but what’s interesting is that we’ve we we’ve inherited a decision that may have been made by two printers yeah or by two humanists who just leged a copy of the Pander yeah and and and a defective copy and a defective copy yeah yeah yeah and I think that that’s um and uh and what’s interesting is when it’s the 1471 Edition and when it’s not um and so I think what for me it’s not so much a a defense of the Yates position it’s a sense that it was natural for her to come to that position because that’s how it traveled and again going to point back to your point about contingency the decision made by a printer and Aldis mantua’s press in 1497 shaped how an entire generation came to view this collection of literature despite the fact that that collection of literature had nothing to do with Michael cus or or nothing to do with own demons or nothing to do with Theus or um or poery for that matter and yet that surveillance it got right because the accident of history and another effect of this was that certain other auers that should have gotten more attention were marginalized because uh so lelli my guy uh really um he gets printed in uh you know early 16th century but he never never got the got a popularity uh that might have been gained by traveling with all these other guys and uh and one reason is that there was no nothing nothing magical in him either it wasn’t in P it wasn’t in lell no magic but interestingly and maybe as as a footnote that’s interesting I think is that um that the author who was most influenced by lelli uh but you can hardly tell this if you don’t pay very very close attention is agria and agria the great author of The you know the three books on Magic uh actually uh many of his core ideas come straight from from lelli but uh this is kind of an esoteric Secret in um in agria you don’t notice it unless you really studied very care and it’s so important to note that lazzari’s addition of the Corpus medicum was complete it had all 17 yeah and he’s the first person in history to say hermetic kusum I am a hermeticist that’s true no one they people say they were on the path of Hermes in Antiquity no one called themselves a hermeticist but it’s great because he says heran that’s an excellent point that’s that’s absolutely true uh yes he is the first to say that and he believed also uh sorry to go on B we were both fans of laari I mean yeah I am in her yes he said that and a Christian and uh he believed that he had encountered the reincarnation of Po MRE the teacher of Hermes and the Corpus of medic one who had who was the same entity as Jesus Christ so for him po mandri was the logos was Christ who had now now returned in his own time as this wondering preacher giovan Doro who was his master his Guru and um so he believed that Christ and and po mandas had returned in his own time and so the end of time was near uh yeah he was so so so he was so unusual that solers doubted he really existed for a while yeah yeah yeah yeah but be that unusual that in the future people doubted you really were real yeah well I I wanted to go back to to your explanation V about what um about what the original um people on the path of Hermes were after and you said light yeah and I thought what is this light is it an experience what is the light and to what extent is it a a factor for these later people I mean maybe these Christians also saw this light and of course there are many passages in the Bible Christ is the light of the world and so forth um but what do you think they understood this light to be well uh H this is this is I think a core Point uh the most important uh word I think in the hertica is n the Greek word n that is the core text if you don’t get the the core word if you want to understand the hertica you have to start understanding what new means in Greek now if you uh if an open open up in the Greek dictionary uh dictionary and you look up the word news the dictionary will tell you it means mind or it means intellect and so you immed and that’s Al also what you find in all the modern translations uh news gets translated as mind or intellect and immediately everything starts looking very philosophical to us because well we know what intellect is right we have an intellect we are intelligent we have a mind it’s in our brain this are all this is all very very familiar language to us so we read this word about the news and we think we know what it means I’m arguing we do not understand at all what it means when we translate as intellect or mind because it meant something else and in order to find out what it meant you have to uh read the text themselves and you have to have to to let their hermetic authors tell you what news means to them and forget about the dictionary translation for a moment and if you read read it carefully then I think the only conclusion you can draw is that this is what it means there is such a thing as an Universal Divine Light God is light this is not of course the light that comes from the lamps here this is a spiritual reality of Light which you uh which you can only perceive which you cannot perceive with your natural senses with your eyes you can only perceive it by an inner uh sense the an inner kind of visual visual sense which again is called noose so you can only understand the light of divinity with the light of your own mind or your own noose um so your own noose your own light your own Inner Light is the light by which you see the light if that makes any sense uh but this light is not natural light it is a spiritual light and it is the only is the essence of what God really is and um but it is not just a philosophical concept it is something that is being uh you know according to the hertica so at the very beginning of Corpus hertica one the poas uh in the very first verses you will find that the Visionary uh Hermes probably is in a kind of an yeah an altered state of consciousness in an ecstatic State his bodily senses are on shutdown so to speak uh his new um sour high he says and um at one point he um gets to see he no I should say differently he gets to see an enormous being a great entity uh who introduces himself as pandri this great entity who talks to him and asks him what do you want to know and he says I want to know the nature of reality and I know want want to know what God is and then uh pandus changes his appearance and uh then hermy sees a universal light uh which and he he um spontaneously feels feelings of love for that light and that is the news so what actually happens is that that pandis is the news he changes his appearance and he shows what he really is universal light so if you ask me what is it yeah uh the the hermatic ERS would tell tell you there’s only one way to know it and that is by experiencing it and then you will know what it is it is not what comes out of this LMS but what you describe sounds a lot like what you can read in MA eot in Toler in souo and by the way they’re all also in all the encyclopedia is a philosophy right so I you know I don’t see the problem with uh philosophy and religion well the problem is that it’s not the problem is that um we easily get uh sidetracked because we think that we know when you hear the word intellect they you think oh yeah I know what intellect is and and we tend to take an Anon IC perspective and to to project our modern understandings of intellects intellectual intellectualism intellectual rationality rationality mind we tend to project it onto the text and and then and that uh keeps us very easily from reading what what are they actually telling us that it means and we we just pass our own meetings over the meetings that they this exactly what the examples you showed um illust St I think it’s an example of what we sometimes in philosophy called the dictionary fallacy it’s if if we’re having a debate about something and you say well the dictionary says it means this dictionaries tell us how words are used not what they mean meaning is only determined by context and if you go to a dictionary to look up the word noose it says intellect you’re like well settled like yeah words change meaning and depal context and when you have an incredibly technical context like what the was happening at the Corpus amicum you’re committing the dictionary fallacy okay well I have a whole list of questions here and we could go on all night but I’m pretty sure uh the audience has a few questions too Corey yeah thanks um I have a question valter you mentioned in your remarks that um the hermetica are basically an inexhaustible uh F or source for different interpretations as you read them later um could you maybe give an example of one of your interpretations that changed as a consequence of later reading or as you develop or sort of changing of one of your conclusions yeah yeah thank you that was actually one of the question that we thought about earlier how have you changed your mind and I might as well well interpreted like that yeah um I’ve become extremely interested over the past 20 years or so for all kinds of reasons in the concept of um alterations of Consciousness or Altered States Of Consciousness that has become a major uh concern for me a major prism for reading um materials that I study and um and when I read this text in the 1990s that concept was not on my radar uh but later later it came on my radar and um so what I have been arguing in this book uh which has the subtitle altered stat of knowledge and late Antiquity um is that um uh you know anything that we can know at all uh yeah depends on our state of consciousness so at this moment I am in an sober State of Consciousness I am quite sober and focused I’m wide awake I’ve had a cup of coffee uh I can see you guys I can I can gain a lot of knowledge at this moment by looking at you I know what you look like I can I I can see the trees outside Etc that’s knowledge that accessible to me in this state of mind I can also in the State of Consciousness I can also sit behind the computer and start writing an scholarly article and that goes very well in this state of consciousness right but if you are in an radically altered state of consciousness like for instance the state that Hermes describes in the first creats of the carpus hermeticum an ecstatic State then um in that stat you know forget writing an article or that kind of thing you cannot do that but so there’s certain kinds of knowledge that are not accessible to you then but other other kinds of knowledge are accessible to you so at that’s in that state he suddenly can uh see the news and he can see poyares and in our state of consciousness now we cannot see the news poies we do not see the universal light right so so the point is that as we change our Consciousness our state of consciousness certain uh types of knowledge become accessible to us and other types of knowledge knowledge become inaccessible to us and um this for me has become an uh a key for understanding the hertica it’s something that I did see in the past I began to understand that uh the uh that an number of key texts of the hertica especially Corpus 1 Corum 13 and the tweeters on the eight and the N of nedy really are uh the descriptions of radical alterations of Consciousness which allow radically different types of knowledge which can which are only accessible in that state and not in another state and this relates to a concept that I find fascinating uh this idea of State specific knowledge so this idea that certain kind of knowledge are specific to this state of consciousness other states of knowledge are spe specific to other states of Consciousness and is there a state in which any kind of Consciousness is accessible to you I doubt it so I I personally doubt it I think that any knowledge that we have is dependent on the State of Consciousness that you’re in and this for me has has become kind of really a key uh for reading the hermetica and of course everybody reads the text from their own perspectives and I’ve been criticized in a lot of earlier Scholars who read the text through their own biased perspectives and misunderstood them and no doubt people will say at one point V hanov is is misinterpreting because he has his interest in altered state of consciousness possible but uh but at least it’s another kind of reading which I think makes sense so I hope that’s an answer Justin do you want to answer the same question has your thinking changed uh over time about these things yeah very dramatically actually I remember an undergraduate first discovering the Corpus of medicum and just being blown away by it just being like this is amazing and just thinking it was such you know part of it motivated me eventually to coming to study under under valure here at the hhp and then I went to graduate school and I discovered this thing called middle platonism and I started reading middle Pless like numinus and Pho and then I looked back to the Corpus of medicum and thought to myself this is bad philosophy right this is just like this is like low brand you know numinous um and then uh maybe five years ago or something it sort of dawned to me this is soteriology not not philosophy and that shift to this is so iology this is philosophy in the in the service of serology right then the text spoke to me again and that was why I so excited when your book came out because I got affirmed I got you know when you when you come to an idea that vter autograph like writes a 300 page book and it’s like you’re like ah thank god um and so I I it’s that it was for me that progression what an amazing text then I had my ficino moment I was like H not such an amazing text and then I was like ah it’s amazing for reasons I didn’t appreciate the failure was my inability to see it for what it was it’s a text of ser a collection of soteriology and phenomenology oh yeah right that in so far it’s it’s text of serology and phenomenology bam it it hit me again so it’s a all disappointment all dialectic yes um oh sorry sorry uh you just me mentioned meister eart and actually uh I wrote something about Margaret pet and um she might have inspired him I think she did Super biased but um what actually what the whole news um um the way you describe it really made me think of the concept of Love uh by Margaret pet actually um the same type of sorry the same type of um attributes and uh you know what it does what love does is kind of similar to what noose does it’s like kind of knowing uh a kind of a circuit between um the soul and God and that in the end um the eye that sees is the same eye that looks but this these type of things you also find in neoplatonic things a lot so I was just wondering did you ever make this connection yourself or how do you view love or Aros in this whole hermetic um constellation I mean I I guess to this is the minim mystics some of my favorite hi is perhaps my one of my favor favorite Poets of all time was just set bhof this today and it’s one of my favorite places in Amsterdam I love H it’s just one of my favorite poets I think that there is a kinship between mystical Christianity and hermeticism and I think the proof of that is that we have hermeticism at all it when it passed through the Byzantine filter which changed it right and I call it the Byzantine filter but really the Byzantine filter took things out and added things in and Michael cus probably was somewhere in there maybe but I think that the reason why it survived for instance in lactantius and the reason why and Augustine really hated it but it survives a bit positively in lactantius and stoas and eventually it it does cross that Byzantine hump is because there is enough philosophical kinship between certain strains of neoplatonic Christianity and certain readings of the Corpus of medicum that they if you kind of squint and look at it sideways it it it passes a smell test otherwise if it didn’t pass that smell test I don’t think the vistine editors would have ever let it get through and so I think that for whatever reason it it was there was something there was a kinship enough that they were able to squin at it look sideways tweak it a little bit and then pass it on with kind of an imprator stamp and I think the the evidence that there’s a a kind of intellectual connection is the fact that we have it at all yeah I would like to add something else also maybe um one possible angle to look at this is uh use in modern research on neurology and uh brain brain process Etc and uh there is quite some evidence to assume that certain kind of states are simply possible because our brain is able to produce them and so it’s possible that and this remains speculative but it’s possible that Mar pet had similar kind of experiences as are described in the carpus and medine and so it’s it does not just have to be an uh an question of borrowing from one source to another it can also uh it’s also possible that certain kind of mental states are have a certain kind of universality because they are based upon how the brain works it’s possible I just throw this in here as a possibility uh with respect to love um in hertica It’s Complicated they don’t use the word love so much uh there is a notion of platonic love in the S sense of the desire for ultimate beauty that you want to want to attain but I think more important in the heraa is the opposed sense that uh the source of reality which is the paga in Greek the source which is an name not just for God but the source that out of which God himself comes maybe the ultimate mystery of existence the py they call it um they describe it as some kind of boundless source of creativity of manifestation everything comes out of it and uh everything is produced by the P by The Source out of pure generosity and pure uh you know giving so it is a very positive idea that uh out of pure goodness the source generates reality for our enjoyment and um so uh there is good reason to uh interpret this as the source is an source of Love of uh of the love for existence for anything that flourishes that lives that is beautiful Etc yeah hello can you hear me hello thank you very much for highly interesting lecture I have uh a couple of comments or questions first uh the thing about U dictionary meaning of of words like you can look up News Psy whatever and it will not do I totally agree you have to read these terms in in context and and I also think that uh in appropriate translations of the hertica these terms should perhaps not be translated into modern languages yes I agree yeah so but but are there any Modern English translations of the hertica that can be recommended I have read several that they are all different in some in some aspects I personally think that there is no uh really satisfactory modern translation of theum uh uh at this moment I think they’re all highly problematic uh for that’s not an criticism for the for the you know through the translators they’re doing their best but they’re doing they’re using certain procedures for instance translating everything as intellect Etc which I think uh this starts the meaning uh I I can already give I can however give give good news there is an uh new translation coming up by Christian wilberg which will be published in one or two years and uh I’ve seen some uh chapters of it it’s excellent it’s better than all the other ones that I’ve seen and there’s something very interesting also which touches a bit on the whole transmission of text that you you’re you’re referring to um and that is a point that he has highlighted namely in the transmission of the text very often a scribe copies the text and then makes annotations in the margins what has happens and everybody has overlooked this until Christian wiberg is that the next stripe often uh moves that annotation uh into the main text and then another scribe thinks it belongs to the text and so it’s so the so there are many pieces of Thea that actually do not belong there and but have have been misinterpreted as belong to the hermatic text it results in all kinds of uh grammatical mistakes sometimes the text doesn’t make sense carbus herum 3 is a notorious example uh it is full of grammatical inconsistencies you cannot read it but uh he has reproduced or reconstructed this text by putting all the marginalia back into the margins and reconstructing the original text and suddenly it’s a crystal clear text and all the problems has vanished and uh that is not just for Corpus 3 that’s for a whole series of other text so this is a revolutionary new translation that’s coming up very soon it’s going to change our view of trtica that’s great news yeah escalus too is also very defective yeah and I also say the escal 2 is very defective oh it’s a mess it’s it’s been known to be a mess for centuries it’s a mess absolutely true yeah and my second question is about U the arguments for a non dualistic reading of the hertica I find that very interesting the arguments for that AR Arguments for uh non dualistic reading what my arguments are what I’ve what I just been trying to do is hermeneutics I talk a lot about hermeneutics I use gamer Etc and uh I’ve just been trying to understand this text on their own terms I’ve been trying to understand what are they trying to tell me are trying to bracket any kind of a uh prejudices that I could think of that I could identify that might that I might be be a projecting on them and try to let the text speak to me and um this is the conclusion I draw this is yeah for the argument you will have to read the whole book but I that I think once you see that they’re talking about about nism that that is their background metaphysics all kind of questions fall into place as there have been this heavy uh dualistic Gnostic frames put on it so people have wanted to see a gnostic dualistic Gnostic matter against Spirit kind of narratives on her hertica it doesn’t work it cannot account for many of the text and if you take a non-dualistic reading I think it’s resolves well I would say 95 yeah percent of the problems there are a few tricky cases I can understand that that’re totally out great with you thank you much and I would say to also valter what’s interesting about this collection and nagamati 6 is that we typically think of gnosticism whatever that category is as dualism these texts are interesting because as a bag these are not terribly dualist texts no and I think the fact that these three at the end is not an accident that this bag is is an interesting sort of non-dualistic bag of things going on that’s interesting I have to have to follow up on that Thunder perfect mind is a great text that really undermines dualisms and things like that so I think that part of what may have been motivating this author may have been these texts are unusual in that respect and they all got thrown into the grabb of codex 6 that’s an excellent suggestion I’m going to to follow up on that and yeah yeah well it occurs to me that we have a really full room tonight and that indicates something namely the fascination um Within this material and Justin you have a lot of interaction with with your followers and I just wonder what you think where does this Fascination come from with these stories and images and the material in general I one of my favorite groups of people to interact with on the internet uh which is which is sometimes a difficult thing to say that because interact with people on internet but I think one of the most exciting groups of people that I’ve got to interact with on the internet are the what I would call sort of Neo hermetic folks uh that are on the uh hermeticism subreddit who are big fans of you but also sort of Reviving a form of hermeticism and it’s it’s fascinating watching them interact with your work with my work as they grapple with that problem and I think that they they are willing to do that frankly spiritually athletic work it is you know it’s one thing for Scholars to reconstruct and talk about there another thing to try to live it and that’s an amazingly heroic I think and and deeply athletic thing spiritually I think I think what people are find so fascinating about it is that it is a western non-dualism those are rare since you know Plato in some sense and um there is something that combines to your point earlier something about the Machinery of Greek philosophy which is very very powerful with something of the spirituality or or whatever word we want to use of ancient Egyptian spiritual technology and that’s a that’s just a cocktail worth drinking Greek philosophy Egyptian spirituality in in this really deeply sympathetic synthetic form I think that just excites a lot of people because it’s a powerful monistic alternative to uh to something like the abrahamic faiths which have frankly done a lot of harm to a lot of people and so it gives them an Avenue in their own Western tradition to have access to a spiritual technology that combin so much of what people are craving and I think that’s why people are willing to do the in my opinion again very impressive very admirable work of bringing these Traditions back into a kind of of of Neo Neo hermeticism and uh I’m just incredibly impressed by by folks going to do that work yeah and the the the term spiritual technology is a very nice one it is also FCO uses an almost similar kind of term which is very applicable here and I think one the reason is simply that a lot of uh modern practitioners yeah they’re practitioners they’re maybe interested in Reading ancient text but they’re really interested in experience and practice they want to do it they want to have the experience themselves last week just last week fascinating I got an email from an guy in Venezuela that I don’t know who first wrote to me under a secret name uh an ritual name because he’s member of an uh of a society uh they they used they call themselves The University of alchemy uh in in Spanish and it turns out that these are people uh in Venezuela who are uh they he contacted me because he had read a book H but for years already um they have been uh practicing rituals uh with an Amazonian drink which some of you may know about uh aaska which is quite well known now and they are using iasa in a ritual setting so iasa has a mind altering uh effect and they are using the text of the corus mum as their basic template for drinking aasa in ritual content so they using Corpus 13 there is the hyn that they that about the D and all that and they’re doing this in order to um expel the demons from their body and and invite the forces of light into their body that’s what you read in Corpus 13 and they really they’re just PR practicing this and so this is how how hermeticism you know continues in completely new context in Venezuela it’s a bit stronger than kofy incense I imagine uh yeah yeah right so yeah this was fascinating I heard this last week contact with and again that’s and I think what’s fascinating about that is that that the what of all the things we know about these spiritual Technologies was that they highly syncretistic and Technologies are all about what’s effective not Dogma yeah and so exactly like if it’s effective awasa is getting you to sose yeah I imagine that in Egypt if they had aaska you best believe that they they and they we do know they were using kofy incense and other kinds of things that have these kind of uh these kind of power so to me that’s that people say oh that’s a a weird Innovation I’m like that’s what technology is exactly yeah that’s might be actually the perfect place to interject my question because um while you were talking about um po Andre being identified as being Christ
I was reminded of one of your recent YouTube videos where you were talking about uh Apostle Paul’s vision of uh Christ uh legitimizing him to be uh spreading gospel even though he never met him
Screenshot
but you connected that to an ancient Jewish tradition of uh meraba meditation kind of things and there in that context I was wondering I I I was thinking about like this uh Rabbi from Israel Shannon who was thinking about that the ancient Israelites might have been drinking uh an anaa like from Syrian Ru and acaia wood where you can make DMT and like make a Sim kind of Brew so that there’s like the possibility and then like you have the other work of M resu recently uh immortality key about the early Christian sects being offshoots of uh mystery schools from the Greek world where it’s also really quite uh possible that they were eming certain uh concoctions uh that made them uh uh uh carried them to the Chariot of God or however you may call it in the uh so I was wondering how how you were thinking about this in uh uh the broader context of uh the the hermeticism and Altered States and the seccy behind it I mean I would say that there are certainly psychotropic substances being used whether it’s alcohol or kofy incense and other kinds of uh incenses
[definitely Psilocybin incense – Cybermonk
that you know the cannaboids that were found recently at terod um certainly they’re being used the question is where do we have evidence for it
[YES. next question?]
and when we fill the gap of evidence of specul it’s really important to to name that as speculation the am Mystics never mentioned in
[except ‘eucharist’ 10 zillion times]
we we get some list of the techniques they used but they’re they look a lot more like yoga than they do em bibing certain kinds of substances what I would say is though that the hermetica literature Ami literature there’s just a bunch of different Technologies of of as scent
[aka avoidance placebos]
that are going on in this period And I think it’s in some level being motivated by the crisis of the thirr century and that by in the third in the third Century you had a lot of reasons to want to get out of town and the Jews had their way to get out of town
[It was DMT.]
and the hermic had their way to get out of town
[It was Psilocybin. you are correct]
everybody’s looking for a way out of the crisis of the third century and I think that that that may be also part of it but for me it would be the question of where do we have evidence and when Theus tells us that this instance is being used we need to chase that to the very end and we need to be especially attentive of it because there’s been such an anti psychedelic anti uh uh anti-substance bias in Academia for so long but I think we need to double down on those efforts to to give that a fair play
[while quadrupling down emphasizing our fabricated “traditional non-drug methods of the mystics”]
but find out what was really happening yeah you must find an uh find a middle ground here
[like making a great show of throwing Walburga tapestry in the river, while also highlighting it in our gallery]
because because you’re quite right there’s no evidence in the hertica zero nothing uh in yamas you have a few references at one point twice he mentions some concoction something we do not know what it is uh and I do interpret yamus as an as an practitioner of the hertica so so that’s that’s puzzling it’s interesting but we simply don’t know more kufi instance yes there are some other things I talk about this but the evidence is very hard to interpret and it’s very minimal so I very very much agree with you we we we should not project these things on the on the materials if we don’t have evidence at the same time you’re also right there is this kind of anti- energetic uh kind of bias in scholarship which doesn’t want to see it at all um and I try to push back against that a little bit in my book on the other hand there’s also you mentioned by Mor rescu uh and other people there’s also an an other kind of bias which wants to see it everywhere and uh and Bayan is an I think an example of that it’s an interesting book but it’s full of rhetoric but the actual evidence is very very slight there’s one piece of evidence is very very interesting that he has has discovered for the for the Illini mysteries in Spain that is I think fascinating for the rest I’m not so not so convinced so I think we have to find a balance between this tendency of wanting to see anthens everywhere and wanting to see him nowhere I think we have to see them where they uh where we have evidence or where we are uh have good reason to assume that uh this is in credible hypothesis right I I tend to call this spectrum because I get comments that you know every episode I do I get it was DMT um and and I and I call this on the one hand this I call it second eliminativism where we want to eliminate all psychotropic drugs from history but the other is what I call DMT reductionism it was always just DMT and so I psycho psychedelic limi ISM uhuh but also DMT reductivism uhuh uh it’s it’s going to be more complicated than that I was always wondering like in uh uh I haven’t really found any references to this but every time I read uh in the Bible in Daniel 53 there’s this story about Nebuchadnezzar calling upon the the uh the the the barrels from the Temple of Solomon to be carried and then they drink from it and their knees start trembling and then the hand of God announces the Doom of his failed Kingdom and that sounds an awful lot uh about like a psychedelic trip gone wrong for Nebuchadnezzar uh so in that sense just a lot of wine yeah but like if you also see like evidence that in Galilee like lots of traveling Mystics From Galilee used lots of uh potions that had way more than just wine in the sense that so that’s that it’s like not that weird it’s like maybe modern I think we agree that we have to fight a middle yeah we yeah when we when when we see yamus use a word that we don’t understand then we have to stand in the presence of Unknowing and it at least again double down on the possibility and Chase it to the very end but often at least in my experience doing this research and about I don’t know about yours often the very end is I don’t know the evidence is simply inconclusive but there are cases I mean so the tendency of not wanting to see it at all I am discussing an the text uh in in the book which is not hermatic but it’s in the Greek magical papiery as they’re called the so-call Mithra litery and that’s an interesting case because there’s a F this is a famous text it has been commented on by many scholars it’s really a well studied text and well to the best of my knowledge I found almost nobody who mentions the anth theogenic component there and it actually contain there’s one fifth of the complete text uh consists of a recipe of how to make an psychedelic concoction it’s the recipe is there you have to take this you have to take that you have to put it together in this way Etc there are a couple of ingredients that are not identified so we cannot replicate it uh but there isn’t one fif of the text is a recipe and almost all the scholars have ignored it and I find that’s a a very strong example of of I agree or Dela there’s psychedelic drugs in delapa that people just ignore yeah yeah like he gets all this phrase but it’s like how to go insane for a day yeah well believe it or not we’re already running out of time so maybe the people who have already that you’ve already recognized and then I have one more question that I think we really need to ask before we let these two guys go thank you very much for your uh interesting lecture I have two questions one goes back to uh I think uh the comment you made about the the man who said he was both a hermeticist and a Christian I was wondering about what time uh that was written and uh that goes with how we receive hermeticism like whole Europe was Christian these texts are rediscovered they are cared for in such a way because they recognize each other they become great friends and I wonder how you see how that evolves if it does into the emergence of for example Rose chanism and then another question I have perhaps more uh for you vouter um if the hermeticist had this nonu VI and they didn’t have this uh um you know antagonism between matter and Spirit uh I was reading the tus of Plato and that’s quite difficult to get through but the the notion that that the the the the ideas are impregnated into the the matter the the sort of underlying substratum the Virgin matter of creation then giving rise to the Sun or the form how how that plays a role if it does in in the hermatic world view um those are my two questions thank you very much for your uh talks yeah I think here so Yus I think this is one of the key references for Yus and I do um I do interpret in my book yamas as an hermetic practitioner I go I’m very insistent with this he uh he talks about our hermetic mysteries in his book people have often wanted to keep him out of Egypt because Egypt is Magic and Superstition and he’s a philosopher so he shouldn’t go there but he actually went there I think he lived there and he studied there and I have Arguments for this and um uh and uh yeah so this is where you find this idea that’s that’s that’s the ideas or the The Good the beautiful and the true the ultimate realities have to be em have to get embodied into into matter uh so you find it there so yeah and the Tas is a key reference so I totally agree and you know the other question is yeah so this guy was lelli yes he was a Christian and uh interesting for him so this was the 1480s all right uh um but interesting was that um he was not interested in Plato he was not interested in other uh you know platonic philosophies Yas or whatever just just the Bible and the hertica that that was it was it for him that is what interested him and he uh he was reading his understanding of Christianity back into the hertica or maybe giving an hermatic interpretation of Christian whatever want you he want to see it and uh yes this was Radical and relatively new in the way that he did it and I would say also about the tus is that Plato there’s a there’s a Plato can never make his mind up in the in the fadis right matter is pretty evil and in the tus it’s just limited no matter how good of a builder you are if the thing you have to build with isn’t very good the house will always be imperfect it’s just a limitation so in the T it’s it’s a limitation it’s there’s no dualism in in the Tas Yus really wants to go with a full em ENT of the Soul just completely sunk into the body unlike platinus who wants to say not completely sunk right and you turn inward and I think that this is this is a tension inside of this is a tension inside of platonism that we don’t talk about because we talk about neoplatonism as if it’s a thing it’s an 18th century invention that covers over the fact that this tension plays itself out in py and Yus and I think that yamus falls on the side of the Corpus of medum because the Corpus of medum is precisely what you argue it’s a text about the the the goodness of the world and precisely as embodiment and I think that’s why he leans hard on the tus and not so hard on the Fades Eddie leads also hard on the on the on the Symposium because in the Symposium DEA and I find it relevant that that an female um uh Priestess of the Mysteries is initiating Socrates there into what it is all about and this is not philosophy but it is erotica it is erotica it’s erotics and she explains what it’s all about and what she says it’s about um giving birth in beauty that is the formulation um so uh it is not about escaping from the world it’s it’s giving birth to the higher forces to the ideas into the world so she used the language of uh giving birth uh to explain what the key of of platonic wisdom is all about and I find is extremely uh significant uh for understanding the hertica we actually have a question from from somebody in the in the remote audience asking about if some of the if some of the um well-known platonists could have had um teachers who were versed in hermetic Traditions when one of the pl sorry of the platonic so for example um do you believe that someone like Pythagoras had teachers in Egypt that were well versed in the Hermetic tradition or ideas no that’s too early so Pythagoras is much earlier so the Hermetic writing that’s why I expanded I think the direction the person is going in is is can there be a real link there well there’s one interesting thing so so Pythagoras is much earlier than the htic writings so the Hermetic writings are second third Century the question is could the Hermetic writings come from an older tradition that’s much older than that and I uh I am cautiously tending towards uh the view that among other people Peter Kingsley has been promoting uh saying that there is an pagaran the tradition which ultimately goes back to Parmenides so you can trace a line from Parmenides that’s really early and Pagan Traditions that gets connected to uh to rtica there are many questions to be asked about it it is very it is speculative to a certain point it’s very hard to prove but I think there are reasons to take that hypothesis seriously so that doesn’t mean that her herar is influence influential on pythagoreanism but it could mean that pythagoreanism and also primes is one of the background uh ontologies or metaphysical system that go into hertica I tend to see I tend to see them mostly the the intellectual Machinery coming from middle platonism like numinus is I think the most direct person that the new the pythagore if you’ve never read numinus really read numinus next to uh the Corpus of medicum I think that’s the main intellectual power that things are coming from but also what’s really exciting is there’s a new addition out of the conversation of the House of life that’s a demonic text that is attributed to Toth it was used as an initiation probably as an initiation text written in Egyptian used in these temples and so we are getting at least a glimpse now into what was previously basically a black box of what are these Egyptian priests people like zosimos what are they doing in these temples from a from a lurgical and philosophical point of view in the Egyptian I language the text is very difficult but I do think that that’s an Avenue of research that I’m super excited about uh hi I have a question about I’m here hi uh I I have a question about the technical hermetica because uh we’ve been mostly talking about the um the philosophical or spiritual hermetica but um I don’t know that much about technical hermetica other than that they are also attributed to Herm but I think some of those are actually a little bit older than uh the philosophical her I’m right uh but they always feel like quite separate things to me and also yeah tonight is an example because we’ve been mostly talking about philosophical hereda like how closely were they connected and did the technical Armeda play a part in the Quest for nosis uh for pract practitioners um for example in classical times or in Renaissance like did it travel a bit of a similar path uh such as the philosophical Meda I mean I I guess what I would say is I would I I think I would agree with bter and I would say I just want to challenge the distinction between philosophical spiritual and Technical hertica and say that that the technical hertica Tech like the corini something like that are some of these alchemical and astrological texts part of what’s motivating them to be attributed to heris magistus is the idea of the goodness of the world and by studying the goodness of the world through Alchemy or astrology one enlivens one’s noose to to Behold The Glory the beauty and through IIA reverence of the world and therefore I would say that the distinction between the the soteriological hermetica or the philosophical hereda and the technical hermetica are actually just a Continuum one actually makes the other possible because at some level if the world is just bad if you’re I don’t know if you’re radical dualist why study this thing it’s just a giant clock driven a bunch of by evil damn archons like like why would I get out but if it’s like no it’s this is part of the beauty of the world and I experienced that through reverence and that’s part of the road to Salvation then this this this distinction just breaks down and I think that that that breakdown is is a very important thing we need to be begin doing is separating take showing these as as as a hand and a glove and not technical versus one actually makes the other possible yeah there’s there’s some continuity I would say it’s a spectrum and uh there is a middle ground where where you it’s harder to say whether it’s technical or spiritual it’s both and zos is a good example so the the practi the practitioner of alchemy uh whom I interpret as an as an hermetic practitioner next to yamas and so he was working in Laboratories all the time that of us is work and I find it hard to to believe and it’s that I think is also so consistent with what we know of socios it’s hard to believe that somebody who is insistently working with matter all the time would have a totally anti perspective and he has often been seen as agnostic against matter stereotypical agnostic against matter but that doesn’t make sense I think you have to see him also as a spiritual practitioner for whom you’re trying to uh discover the secrets the mysteries of matter uh which and affected from a dualistic point of view the whole breakdown between M the the whole distinction between matter and spirit breaks down and uh you’re just working with one of the same thing um yeah well you’ve both hit on things that um you know need to be worked on and can definitely uh be delved into further and so I wanted to ask you both what you would like to explore in the future and what do you think are the kind of the big questions that still need to be to be investigated I who goes first I guess what I would say what excites me is one the discovery and publication of Egyptian literature and looking at how Egyptian literature is tying into this literature and two more work needs to be done on the technical hereda because I think that getting there’s so much of that in Arabic and so much of that uh in in syak that we we tell a story of of uh Egypt Greece Thomas aquinus and I’m like hold on what what about the you the brethen of Purity and what about and so there’s a story about the transmission of all that that you know went into bdad and the B hikma and without telling that story uh we have two legs of a stool and I think that’s uh I don’t want to sit on that stool so the so so these big gaps in transmission yeah and and also trans gaps in Innovation what do the brethen of Purity do what are they what’s going on in the natine and agriculture how are they transforming her from being what it is in this text to now being the prophet Enoch and how is this how is the spirituality and the spiritual technology adapting to new environments especially in uh in the near East yeah I would say something similar to what you you just said I think uh one of the major challenges is to change our narratives and not just uh the narratives about heraa but in order to interpret them in a better new way we have to uh get rid of a whole range of uh old-fashioned eurocentric uh narratives of progress that uh say that uh basically everything you know philosophical and good comes from Greece Etc and uh marginalizes everything that comes from Egypt Etc and is superstitious and magical Etc these are very deeply ingrained narratives in the standard ways of of uh thinking of academics in my work on the hermetica I’ve been fighting constantly with with the power of those Nar narratives so Scholars have kept projecting narratives of Greek superiority on hertica and you completely get it wrong when you do that uh they have been been projecting uh Christian and biblical narratives on their hertica the hertica Are pagan there is not a trace of Christianity in it and uh very very little Judaism a little bit but very very little they’re basically Pagan and uh but nevertheless Scholars have have projected the entire Genesis Narrative of the fall of Man into matter under hermetica he thought it was there and it wasn’t there and the for generation for Generations people have kept repeating that narrative so we have we have to get rid of a lot of these narratives and another one and it links to what you said so you mentioned the bre of Nar the Breen of Purity and all many of these things in the Islamic world we have to um look at Western culture uh in a much more inclusive way which which includes the whole transmission of pagan pagan Traditions uh Judaism Christianity and Islam so we have to get rid of this idea that uh Judaism and Christianity belongs to the west and Islam doesn’t belong there if you want to act actually understand how these things work you have to see this in a much broader context and include a whole largely unexplored field of the transmission of esoteric and hermetic literature in the Islamic world as well so you need to have the languages you need to have uh have you need to look at at at Arabic and Persian and syak and all these languages and there’s tons of work to be done there yeah yeah really really basic stuff to I know a lot of visitors are are are surprised to hear that um Knowledge from from Egypt had anything to do with the Renaissance well okay God forbid have some things to tell them then yeah yeah well everyone please join me in thanking these two [Applause] well before I let you go I’d like to make just a couple of quick announcements our next lecture is on the 13th of July and we’ll be talking about hermetica again we have Marat Nasser here she’s a very interesting lady an Egyptian lady lady who had a a career in in um London and is now using her substantial wealth to build something called her mopis in central Egypt um building on and commemorating um this this this culture and these events that happened a millennia ago um so she’ll be here to present her project to us um and I also want to mention that starting in September we’re going to have an online lecture series on the thought of Jung Carl Yung and un Burma so keep your eyes open for that um but please join us now in the cafe uh for a beverage and I think the garden is maybe open as well so we can chat there thank [Applause] you
warning: here I am using voice transcription which is 80% awesome and 20% broken all to hell and frustrating.
90% failure, major data loss. THIS TECH IS NOT WORKING. bugs l & r.
Jesus: FOUR times here I summarized takeawys, of dos & donts — four times it lost my writeup. impressive failure rate.
keyboard shortcuts work 99% reliably & effectively.
I wish I could trigger a keyboard shortcut expansion through voice transcription because I use a lot of words that voice transcription cannot accurately and reliably transcribe and
so I need voice to be able to trigger a pre-fabricated correctly spelled keyboard, shortcut expansion.
I started using voice transcription on mobile around 2015 and unfortunately it doesn’t really seem like the voice transcription is any more reliable now that it was 10 years ago
Technology, in Erik Davis’ broad sense in book TechGnosis , is how I figured out Satori Zen mental model transformation in just 8 months from April 1987 to Jan 1988, While studying:
blotter loose cognition
& Minkowski 4D spacetime eternalism
& modrl of mental model transformation in loose cognition state.
new attempted notation for defining a keyboard shortcut :
Minkowski 4D spacetime eternalism – 4 d
1987 successful notation:
mental construct processing [MCP]
test of keyboard shortcut 4 d :
Minkowski 4D spacetime eternalism
voice transcription technology is frustratingly close to being awesome, but it is extremely broken, highly buggy and it is insane.
voice x is frustrating because it is insane:
It will transcribe correctly when I say the word Amanita or entheogen or motif — and then it will go back and ruin and destroy and delete and change that word to something completely different for no reason !
I suppose what will work for me given the limitations of the mobile technology is to add messy voice transcription at the bottom of existing posts.
This will avoid sending followers emails because I am pretty reluctant to send people emails, but I need to do a large bulk many thousands of words because for every thousand words I say or type there’s that many more ideas
Proof that going over the same ideas again makes progress in network connections per Paul Thagard’s model of iterative revision of connections between ideas to develop and refine and revise a theory.
The phrase “theory revision” is core to his model of scientific theory, replacement and development and modification.
I am making very good progress in my looping spiral of circling around and around saying the same thing over and over again, but proof :
Proof that spiraling is huge progress
when I was on hiatus in 2008 through most of 2011 in 2010 walking on the forest path mushroom forest path branching path.,
I had the idea of branching as a possible major theme in mythology
then September 2011 I posted about that subject and I had a breakthrough on that topic in November 2011
then in November 2012 I had a breakthrough in that exact identical topic
and then in November 2013 I had a giant breakthrough on that identical topic
then in December Christmas 2015 Thomas had posted a very high resolution picture of the dancing man salamander Bestie image in color :
maybe stand on right foot means eternalism-thinking and stand on left foot means possibilism-thinking?? 🤔💡
four entheogen scholars had misinterpreted that as a am am mushroom.
Dammit voice x got Amanita correct and then voice transcription then went back on corrupted its correct transcription
to a mushroom Mucaria mushroom.
It keeps writing
it keeps writing the word correctly and then going back and ruining and destroying it after it’s correct transcription — insanity!! AMANITA.
I am really reluctant to post 2 posts per day. I really don’t want to because it’s experienced as a lot of noise of low value, but I don’t know …
The problem is that it would produce a lot of large quantity of separate emails, but the problem is that with mobile it’s when editing or producing content on mobile. The app really wants to send a lot of emails a large number of short emails
the problem is that I’m trying to produce content at a massive rate, just tons and tons of content, because for every thousand words I write, it produces a certain number of ideas
the more words I write the more progress, the faster my progress, but the app for editing WordPress cannot handle. It just can’t handle that bulk in the form of long posts.
eternalism
possibilism
presentism
I am pretty sure that the app is malfunctioning and losing paragraphs after it has registered the paragraphs true data corruption true data loss .
p r m
e t m
In my 1987 notation for acronyms handwritten allcaps, that would be written as
PRESENTISM [PRM]
not as my latest in-development notation optimized for mobile device:
and I believe I can prove that by pasting the transcription here –
In looking for a new direction, he is directionless
Timothy Freke Is Not Helping People Use Psilocybin
🗣️🎙️🤖💦🔫💥🔨🤬
Voice Dictation Cannot Handle the Word ‘Motif’
Highly effective to compare the new direction that Timothy Freke in evolutionary spirituality
Wish to integrate Voice Dictation with Keyboard shortcuts
In What Specific Way Is Recent-Freke a Mixed Bag?
Per the Egodeath theory, Ultimate Truth is, possibilism practical mental model + revealed underlying eternalism
Too Timid Tim – Reflects His Lack of Coherent Two-Leg Model
Incoming
Hermetica as a Path of Initiation (Litwa, 2025)
The Way of Zen by Alan Watts: “Truth Is Unspeakable” –> Freke, Ok <Throws Book into Fireplace>
Ways of Thinking of Eastern Peoples: Freke Is Rejecting the Trite Cliched Ways of Talking About Transcendent Knowledge
Jesus Mysteries book: The #6 Bestselling Book at Amazon in 2000
Website
YouTube videos
Videos
Forthcoming Podbook (audio book)
Books
Rejection of Non-duality that negates individuals
Rejection of “only consciousness exists”
Motivation for this Page
Timothy Freke: Reconcile Individual & Nondual; eternalism & possibilism; altered state & ordinary state
Brand of Religion: Emergent Spirituality
Brendan Graham Dempsey video interview of Timothy Freke, Jan. 23, 2025
Video Transcript of “Live with Tim Freke”
Freke’s Vision of Emerging Mythic Spirituality, Post Scientific Revolution
A New Worldview, A New Form of Spirituality – A Transition Like the Scientific Revolution that Pushed Away Mythic Religion as “Not Up to the Job, We Can Do Far Better” — but Left Us Spiritually Adrift
The After-Death Experience Is Undergoing an EvolutionaryTM ProcessTM
Terms: Soul, Psych
Types of Experience: Sensual & Imaginal
History of Ideas: We Are Body and Soul
De-Theologize ‘Soul’
The EvolvedTM ‘Soul’ or ‘Psyche’ Means the Ability to Make Sense Out of Tim’s Meaningless Utterances
Evolved b/c Biology, w/ Side-Effect the Psyche, that’s it?
Shamanic-Practices Spirituality (ie High Dose Psilocybin); the Esoteric Traditions of 12 Grams of Golden Teacher of Righteousness to Learn How to [finally we getting somewhere] Explore the Spirit Realm of Loose cognitive association to reshape the mental model of control to 4D Spacetime Mysticism while Preserving possibilism-thinking [i may be getting slightly ahead of Tim here]
We Should Seriously Take 12 Grams of Golden Teacher to Be EvolutionaryTM, EvolvedTM; Next-Level, and EmergentTM
Study the EmergentTM Realm, to Understand Lots of Spiritual Phenomena Like the Psyche
… so Let’s Talk About Physical, Bodily, Literal, Biological Death
When the Body Fails, the Psyche Continues, as a ProcessTM
Literal Bodily Physical Death Looks Like the Imaginal Continues More Vividly, Like Sleep & Dream
FINALLY! “Take Psychedelics” (in an EmergentTM, EvolvingTM Way, of Course) “or move your focus to the imaginal”
12 Grams Makes you Move Focus to the Imaginal, in High Definition Spirit Realm; Then You Get Real EmergentTM, and EvolveTM, and Become Leading-EdgeTM
“That 12-Gram Experience Is What I’m Trying to Explore”
Developing an Ontology of the Psyche after Bodily Death, through 12 Grams of Golden Teacher
If We ALL Has 12 Grams of Cubensis, We’d All Have a Experience of the Tremendous
Informational Overlay Tracked Using Our Information Processing Systems & the Cyber Internet (with Language)
Travel with Psilocybin to Create Imaginal Spiritual Space to Construct God
Avoid AlgorithmsTM that Run in the Material World
Images of Freedom to Ride a Flying Horse [Golden Teacher Starting to Kick In]
You Are the Creator of Fantastic Spaces to Hear Command Voices
EvolutionTM = 12 G Psilocybin Imaginal Space Truckin
Proof I’m Right: Internet Conferencing Is Working Right Now, b/c of this EvolutionTM
If My Jargon Impresses You, You Are EvolvingTM
Takes 20-40 Minutes for the EvolvingTM to Kick In – we’re really moving now, I Wish I Could Claim It’s Because of my Jargon
12 Gram Psilocybin is not just spirituality that’s outdated mumbo jumbo, But the Rest is Too Old to Work
Can We Find Golden Teacher, Source of Mythic Imaginal, Again? If so, We’d Be the Absolute Leading EdgeTM; the Spiritual Exploration Awakening
Requires the Philosophy Strain of Psilocybin
“(I’m Presently Out of Psilocybin)”
As Simple as 12 G of Cubensis
Thunderstorm Mushrooms Give Spiritual Experiences that Are EvolvingTM
The mushroom-trees Are Psilocybin, Matters because Causes control instability driving mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism
Nothing Comes Close to 12 G Cubensis
Study the Egodeath TheoryTM of Psychedelic EternalismTM
Eternal Conscious Life through Wishfulgenetic Fields
Answer = Resonate Vibrations: When I Was a Child, I Thought as a Child
I Hung with Sheldrake when I Was Childish
‘Consciousness’ = ‘Psyche’ Rises EmergentlyTM
The Psyche Can Exist Without the Brain, If You Take My Courses and Buy My Merch
Consciousness = Pay Attention to My Marketing Jargon Overlay Covering the Actual, Psychedelics Engine
Analogy Is the Fastest Way to Communicate Psilocybin’s EmergentTM EvolvingTM Effects
Understanding the Universe on Psilocybin Is Like an AI Learning System, Like the Latest Technology from 1200 to Instruct a Class about Balancing in a Mushroom-Tree to Avoid Loss of Control
Cybernetics Is Information and Communication About Control & 4D Spacetime Mysticism
Mystic Revelation Is Oneness Non-Dual Beginner Unity Experience
Enlightenment = ComplexityTM & Resonant Frequency Quantum Vibrations
Domino-Chain Causality of Pattern Recognition Formation Evolve Emergent Process
In the Revealed, 4D Spacetime Block, All Moments Equivalently Exist
Transcendent Knowledge is like Magic Propagation of Pattern Recognition
4D Spacetime: The Past Exists and Information Sits Distributed: the past hasn’t passed; no meta-change and meta-flow
Mental Patterns in 4D Spacetime Are Algorithms that Cybernetically Govern; the 4D Spacetime Heimarmene Block Governs All Creatures and Control-Thoughts
Psilocybin Transformation is EvolutionaryTM
WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE? WHAT DOES PHYSICS’ “TIME AS A DIMENSION” SAY ABOUT THAT? “Process”, “Evolution”, “Emergent” — Domino-Chain Causality Verbs Frozen in 4D Spacetime Block with No Meta-Change
Domino Chain Causality, Ego Steering Through Branching Possibilities Forward in Time to Create the Open Future
Throw More “Change” Verbs at the Frozen 4D Spacetime Block, to Shatter It and Be Born Forth from the Cosmic Rock: Chant “Action!” “Evolve!” “Emerge!” – Use of terms to imply Open Future
Egoic Branching-Based Domino Chain Causality Suspended Halfway Between Egoic and Transcendent Thinking
I Am My Past, and I Control and Create My Open Future by Ego Steering Power
I Had Past Thoughts, and I Am Creator/ Emerger/ Evolver/ Process-Driver of My Future Thoughts
I Am My Past (I Am Not My Future, Because That Hasn’t Been Created and Steered into Existence Yet by Me Selecting from Branching Possibilities Open to Me)
Do Not Look at the Source of Control Thoughts; Look Down at Your Biological Level Only
I Am the Control System
The Postivity[sp?] Is Two Levels: Biology Information, and Imaginal
Spiritual Survival of the Soul and Psyche Spirit Consciousness = Imagination Continues to Exist After the Physical, Literal Body Dies
After Your Physical Body Dies, Your Imaginal Process Continues, because You Evolved Emergent Spirituality
Super Vivid NDE Imaginal b/c Emergent Evolve
The psyche can exist on its own but not in another physical matrix; on Two Different EmergentTM LevelsTM
Yes and No and Maybe and I Didn’t Assert That, Next Question, Time’s Up
Ladder Model
Integral Theory – Ken Wilber
Tim Freke Seeing What Ken Wilber Is Up To
Psyche Independent from Brain: How Related?
The Body & Brain, Biological Processing/ Managment
The Psyche Emerged from Body: Ideational Level; the ideational network
The Telepathy Tapes Podcast about Autism Kids
My Lucid Living Book Is Great But Wrong
Perennial Philosophy is Wrong? Experiencing “It” in 1 Hour, per Huxley
My Books Were Perennial and Good — But Wrong
[the Egodeath theory lately is a bit like that: Marketing It too much as a 1-dimensional over-Focus on Eternalism/ no-free-will, Only; Short-Changes the Balanced Component of Retaining Isaac, Everyday Egoic Thinking/ Shape of Experience incl. during peak mystic window: embrace and include – hard but i have to work hard to RE-ARTICULATE the Egodeath theory & its “Benefits”; What Diff?]
“I articulated it so well for myself that I could finally see what was wrong with it”
Against the Dogma Cliche that “Transcendent Knowledge is beyond words” [never held by the Egodeath theory]
Freke STILL Sounds Like Usual “Unity Oneness Nondual Experience” Tripe of Beginner Level
Experiencing Oneness[TM]
I Can Tune into Dead People [= “evolve”?]
EmergingTM, EvolvingTM, Levels of EmergenceTM
[ empty, meaningless, Marketing jargon, like possibilismTM, eternalismTM, the Egodeath theoryTM]
Fake Math Affectation, like 4D Spacetime Mysticism Sold as psychedelic eternalism — whatever that means <– probably same thing as Quantum Mysticism (didn’t Parmenides fabricate that myth?)
Sacred Geometry
Emergent 4D Spacetime
FormlessTM
OneTM, in RelationshipTM as Two(TM??)
The Universe EmergesTM from OneTM – Too Complex for You to Understand, Words Cannot Express It [joke]
Freke Continues Making ‘Oneness Unity Nonduality’ the Reference for Religious Experience
Oneness Makes My Thoughts [= controls my personal control system? could we be actually getting somewhere relevant, here? or is this just an accident like infinite monkeys typing?]
OnenessTM of BeingTM (But there’s no quality to it) [i agree: a low-quality utterance, Tim]
The IsnessTM of Things: An Isness Which Everything Shares, and “It” is developed from “that” [??? What Is It?, asks Watts, & me]
Meditation [not Psychedelics]
Ken Wilber Yada Vibes: Big Framework, No Engine [-cm]
Giveaway Word “Connection” Reveals That this is the “Unity” Paradigm [like Ken Wilber = the “Advaita Meditation Huckster” Paradigm, at Core]
The Ego Tunnel; Philosophy and the Mind Sciences Journal (Thomas Metzinger)
Non-Branching, Snake-Shaped Worldline Frozen in 4D Spacetime Block Mysticism [FDML]
LevelsTM, Man [compare: in psychedelic eternalismTM, you end up {rider on donkey on path}; surface level of experience = possibilism-thinking; underlying real level = eternalism-reality; end up w/ qualified possibilism-thinking above eternalism actuality]
The Mythic Thing Has Been Around a Long Time – u dont say?
The OneTM Became the Two
rupert sheldrake morphic Fields
I have E. S. P. of the Universe, So Have a Spirituality that’s Grounded in This Reality
There Is Many Onenesses
The Soul Is Part of the OneTM ProcessTM BecomingTM [not wrong, but not very helpful]
It’s Origined from It, So, Process <-
Freke Lexicon: The Psyche Senses, Tune In
We Talk Philosophy on Sundays, to EvolveTM and EmergeTM, to E.S.P.-Sense Each Other & Our Established Collective Group (and call that “the divine super-soul”)
Sense the planetary awareness
We Converse in the Psyche — and Physical & Biological TOO!
When We Talk Together, God-Oneness Is All Levels Interacting
Freke Book The Laughing Jesus
I Only Talk to Our Sunday ICU Collective
Experiential Retreat at SkyMeadow
Do Philosophy in the Experiential Realm
Sky Meadow, various thinkers communities
TheAvenues – Community?
VAGUE, “love is the point of Philosophy” – Love of Transcendent Knowledge, I should hope [cm]
Is “Emergence” a Magic Token Word in Place of Comprehension?
Key Dogma/ Jargon: “Evolution” (magic word)
“Cycle of Rebirth”
Main Theme: Do Not Lose the Individual (or devmt of the indiv.) During Egodeath Enlightenment
Tim’s Podbook
ICU Sunday Meetings
Tim Freke Video Podbook on YouTube, His Latest 8 Years’ Work/ Idea Development
“I did this whole thing, but now actually I think that’s all wrong”; learning and updating
Latest Update Patch to Tim Freke’s OS
See Also
Video: Part 2: The Evolution of my Ideas about Spirituality (Apr. 18, 2025)
Video title: Part 2: The Evolution of my Ideas about Spirituality Tim Freke, Apr. 18, 2025
“In a follow up to our previous conversation, Richard Cox and I discuss the development of my ideas about spirituality:
from accepting the fundamental tenets of the perennial philosophy,
to embracing the philosophy of unividualism.
[i disagree with more aspects of what’s foisted as common-core mysticism and perennialism than Freke – it’s a beginners’ overemphasis on nondual unity oneness, fails to engage control model transformation & pass through the relevant gate. – Michael Hoffman]
‘Why Your Life Really Matters: The Podbook‘ is coming on 1 May. 2025
“Subscribe to be notified of new chapters weekly.
“Access all chapters I have recorded before they are released and connect with me in person at weekly online meet-ups by joining my online community: https://timfreke.com/online-community/
“Find out about my experiential online and in-person events: https://timfreke.com
“Sign up to my newsletter to hear about everything I am up to: https://timfreke.com
“I am the author of 35 books, translated into 15 languages, including a Sunday Times bestseller and Daily Telegraph ‘Book of the Year’.
“For some inexplicable reason I was included in ‘The 100 Most Spiritually Influential Living People’ lists in Watkins Magazine for 2021 and 2022.”
My Comment on the Video
In 1988, I discovered a 2nd way of thinking (4D spacetime block universe eternalism), instead of the common, first way of thinking.
For decades, I emphasized switching to that 2nd way of thinking.
But in 2000 (Jesus Mysteries book era), Coraxo in the Gnosticism Yahoo Group pointed out that my glorified 2nd way of thinking is what Gnosticism framed as a prison to escape!
So then in 2001, I read David Ulansey’s book explaining Mithraism as a way of rising above my glorified, exclusive 2nd way of thinking.
The Late Antiquity 3-part model (body, soul, spirit) disparaged my 2nd way of thinking as merely soul, merely half-transcendent.
And in 2024, I realized that my model, pushing exclusively 4D Spacetime Mysticism, simply would not fly if presented to my psych spirituality group, and is not entirely relevant to the mystical peak state nor daily life.
I recently struggled to stop disrespecting the first way of thinking and reframe both ways of thinking in an integrated way.
Now I’m following behind Tim Freke and Jessica Nathanson in a “both-and”, embracing approach, which conforms to Ken Wilber: “dis-identify, embrace, and include” the earlier developmental structures.
Isaac was sacrificed in a way (“because you have done this thing”), and preserved in a way, and because of that, Abraham and Isaac walked away blessed by the Transcendent and thriving into the future.
Looking forward to the Podbook.
/ end of Comment on video
Soul Story: Evolution and The Purpose of Life (Freke, 2017)
Soul Story: Evolution and The Purpose of Life Tim Freke, 2017
Blurb:
THE EMERGENCE OF SOUL, MEANING AND IMMORTALITY
“The grand religious stories that gave meaning to life and death in the past have crumbled under sceptical scrutiny.
“The dominant mainstream philosophy is now scientific objectivism, [“naturalism”; “materialism”] which describes a universe that exists for no reason and a life that ends in oblivion.
“Pioneering philosopher Tim Freke addresses the “soul crisis” in modern culture that has arisen from lack of meaning.
“He offers an intelligent “spiritual” perspective on life and death to help us make sense of a paradoxical world, which is sometimes bleak and banal, but also can be magical and full of significance.
“He presents a revolutionary paradigm shift in our understanding of reality that integrates the deepest insights of science and spirituality to create a new model of human identity, which makes the idea of the immortal soul intellectually credible.
“He explores the process of evolution, not as blind chance, but as the momentous story of the self-realising universe.
“The development of the material world has led to the emergence of “psyche” or “soul,” which you are experiencing right now as a stream of thoughts and images that don’t exist in space and aren’t made of matter.
“We are not insignificant specks in a vast purposeless cosmos.
“We are significant participants in the magnificent and meaningful story of soul.
“The universe is coming to know itself through each one of us and this process doesn’t end at death, because the evolution of soul has also been the evolution of immortality.”
Video: WHAT’S WRONG WITH NON-DUAL SPIRITUALITY : PART 1 (Freke, 2022)
Video: Q&A on ‘What’s Wrong with NonDual Spirituality’ (Freke, 2022)
Video title: Q&A on ‘What’s Wrong with NonDual Spirituality’ YouTube channel: Tim Freke, May 26, 2022 “A vibrant discussion about our 2 films exploring ‘What’s Wrong with NonDual Spirituality?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XQLCpU-TBY —
“This discussion is one of the weekly online meet ups with my online community. If you enjoyed it, consider joining us to take part in regular discussions like this!”
“Jessica Nathanson is dedicated to spreading awareness about the pitfalls of radically imbalanced non-dual teachings and exploring how to engage with non-dual spirituality in a way that honours rather than denigrates the individual self and inspires human flourishing towards the highest good for all.”
Summarize Points from Timothy Freke interview at YouTube
Check transcript at bottom of page
He rejected pop nonduality self is illusion, freewill is illusion, rejected Ramesh Balsekar & he specifically criticized in a different video specifically by name, Herman “Minkowski 4D space time ” – but that interview is really focused on survival of the soul, not those other crirtiques of pop spiritual tropes like
His critique of “nonduality”.
His critique of 4D Spacetime Mysticism (Minkowski) & Ramesh Balsekar (“enlightenment = Advaita meditation & no-free-will”) — I quickly heard him say those words in other videos. Freke has heard everything, and probably worked with everyone.
His critique of “ego is bad, get rid of it”.
“reason cannot grasp or describe the spiritual”.
The other dominant cliches.
Deep Awake: Wake Up To Oneness and Celebrate Your Individuality (Tim Freke, 2016)
“Frustrated with outdated forms of spirituality that urge us to reject the ego, the bestselling author of The Jesus Mysteries invites us to embrace our personal selves as a doorway to spiritual awakening
“Is the author of more than 20 books on the world’s spiritual traditions, Tim Freke is in a unique position to present a revolutionary new approach to spiritual awakening.
With astonishing clarity and directness, he explains why popular spiritual teachings that urge us to reject the mind, attack the ego, and detach from the vicissitudes of life are misguided.
Using the powerful tool of ‘paralogical thinking’, he reveals that everyone has both a ‘deep I’ and a ‘personal self’.
The ‘deep I’ is our spiritual essence, which is one with everyone and everything.
We experience the ‘deep I’ as a feeling of limitless love.
The personal self by contrast is our tender humanity; it feels pleasure and pain, hope and heartache, love and loss.
The personal self feels separate* from the world.”
[note “unity” is still the master point of reference idea/ conceptualization]
“Tim’s powerful paralogical insights reveal that the personal self is not an obstacle to our spiritual essence which must be overcome but rather a doorway to the ‘deep I’.
“Indeed, it is only through the personal self that we can find and then embody the ‘deep I’ in our lives. The ego is not the villain but rather the hero of the spiritual journey.”
[The ego as steering agent is snok smoked when block-universe eternalism is reveealed – ego is smoked as virtual-only, ghost, but remains and is used constantly]
When we are deep awake, we wake up to oneness and celebrate separateness.
“We embrace both our spirituality and our humanity.
“Authentic spirituality is not about detaching ourselves from life, but about wholeheartedly diving in so that we can express our deep love and our unique human passion in the world.”
ha. Another interruption, the theme of the morning is interruption to define keyboard shortcut. I need a keyboard shortcut for Herman Manowski 4D4 dimensional space time.
Minkowski 4D Spacetime – 4 d
announcement I am working on different ways of representing a shortcut that I am currently defining. I have to type in a way that works on mobile device my notation in the binder sheets, April 1987 is no good for this mobile editing format.
1987 notation:
mental construct processing [MCP]
Sometimes it gets the word right 90% of the time it does but occasionally voice transcription will successfully transcribe the rare special word for Dr secret entheogen
1/10 times, voice transcription correctly handles the word motif. proving that it can do it right this frustrating voice transcription. I know you can handle the word MOTIF because you do that correctly one out of 10 times what’s the problem?
It’s frustrating it would be so nice if it would work, but then in the one out of 10 times that it works and it transcribes the word MOTIF then two seconds later, it goes back in it ruins and corrupt and changes the word to some other word
and I believe I can prove that by pasting the transcription here –
In looking for a new direction, he is directionless
Timothy Freke Is Not Helping People Use Psilocybin
Given: We only have religious experience r-e rx
keyboard shortcut rx
Dr Cybermonk prescription R X i prescribe the medicine poison remedy for ills ails you vexes and causess turmoil: u need religious experience
my huge motivation in researching loose cognition in 1985 was to repair my thinking
My life was charmed but vexed by one root problem: dysfunctional personal control system
I has to fix this problem of dsc dctsc
dysfunctional cross-time self-control
dctsc – dysfunctional cross-time self-control
where did my important breakthrough theory of transcendent knowledge come from my theory of psychedelics effects transforming transformative psychedelic effect my theory that the most important thing in religion is psychedelics and
my theory that the main effect of psychedelics is mental model transformation
The most important thing in the world is psychedelics.
Religious revelation is through none other than psychedelics
My theory that the only brand of religion worth developing and theorizing about is psychedelics.
🗣️🎙️🤖💦🔫💥🔨🤬
Timothy freak has the concept of ENTHEOGEN.
Voice Dictation Cannot Handle the Word ‘Motif’
The study of art interpretation motif
Highly effective to compare the new direction that Timothy Freke in evolutionary spirituality
Timothy Freke says eastern religion is irrationalism.
Now Freke says to avoid the irrational, and stop criticizing Reason and the individual, because Eastern religion says to be enlightened, you must get rid of your individual self, and you must stop using rationality.
Per pop spirituality cliches, you must say that “everything is an illusion”, and pretend like you said something meaningful, even though it is in fact, meaningless to say “Item X is an illusion”.
You’ve explained nothing; it is intellectually lazy to make these crude binary statements.
Act as if you said something profound, you said nothing when you said “the self is an illusion.”
it is taken Timothy Freke 30 years to realize the overselling of “nondual”, “self is illusion.”
To say the self is an illusion is meaningless nonsense that is of no help to anybody.
“Not wrong, but not helpful/ useful/ relevant/ simple/ clear.”
It is profitable to contrast recent development in the thinking of Timothy Freke versus my own recent development refining, my marketing framing of all that I have figured out about psychedelics mental model transformation, mythology, and medieval art motifs.
Wish to integrate Voice Dictation with Keyboard shortcuts
How did I make biggest breakthrough January 1988 figuring out
Integrate voice dictation with keyboard shortcuts containing my specialized, purpose built, custom lexicon for my theory development.
d c t s =
decoded by Cybermonk [4:42 p.m. February 12, 2023]
have been needing that recently, but what I do instead is simply enter the time date manually,
but instead of having to type the entire date, the keyboard shortcut is faster because expands the most recently defined date and then simply modify that by hand.
stable control – s c
self-control climax – s c c
stable control – s c
s c c = self-control climax
s c : stable control
Timothy Freke’s evolutionary spirituality brand of religion: what is its point, mission, strategy, goal?
Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory brand of religion: what is its point, mission, strategy, goal?
Michael Hoffman’s psychedelic eternalism brand of religion: what is its point, mission, strategy, goal?
Premise: The Mind has an innate desire to mature via Psilocybin; to mature in a sense that is defined by Psilocybin
The strongest sense of having a having a religious experience is via psychedelics.
Where should we look to find a standard of what constitutes religious revelation?
the answer is self evident through experience that
we experience the strongest possible sense of having a transformative religious experiencing is through psilocybin and modern equivalent blotter
Jan Irvin claims that those merely have a suggestion effect
But there he is specifically focused on social engineering imposing when one group of people imposes on another group of people psychedelics.
That social dynamic is called not entheogen but suggestogen; Irvin is claiming that the principal cognitive effect of psychedelics is suggestibility rather than entheogenic.
What kind of maturing does Psilocybin cause? branching to non branching.
In What Specific Way Is Recent-Freke a Mixed Bag?
This is the hard work of scholarship and competitive competent theory-construction — Freke is saying many great things, and is saying some wimpy, inadequate things, and failing to assert as good and definite a model of Transcendent Knowledge as the Egodeath theory (which leverages the Mytheme theory).
He’s just discovered that it’s possible to take a critical view against how Transcendent Knowledge is described – gee whiz!
I figured that out a zillion years ago – 9 months in.
Day 1: Oct 26, 1985
June 1986: “Transcendent Knowledge is described ineptly. I must figure out what ego transcendence is REALLY about, and then, do a way better, STEM-based expression of Transcendent Knowledge.”
1998: “And explain religious mythology to corrob & clarify the core theory of 1988/1997.”
2015: “Including art motifs such as stand on right foot.”
2020: Confirmed massively; motifs — like religious mythology — are depictions of Psilocybin transformation.
Per the Egodeath theory, Ultimate Truth is, possibilism practical mental model + revealed underlying eternalism
He labels this as fundamentalism (in the course of him correcting and backing away from his previous stance).
I double down. THis is the clear, simple, specificcal, two-leg mode; the mind ends up with this combination of compatibilitsm.
Timothy Freke is thorwing in a bunch of onise noise – he is too much doing REACTIONISM; he is rebutting bad ideas, including ones he held. I am not doing just reaction against poor expressions; I was driven by a need to clearly understand Transcendent Knowledge and model it and assert that model.
I half agree with many of his latest statements. He can lable “authoritarnian”, “ultimate truth” — I frame instead as, A SCIENTIFIC MODEL OF Transcendent Knowledge MUST SPEAK DEFINITELY, TO BE USEFUL. Timid Tim
Too Timid Tim – Reflects His Lack of Coherent Two-Leg Model
He’s working it out, a lot of sparks & smoke and self-countersignaling. His tone of voice gives it away, sounds like me chastising me in Oct 1985-March 1987, in my phase one initial approach.
April 1987 I gained a sure-footed sense – this is The Teacher of Righteousness. This is the specific meaning of the body of religious mythology.
Timothy Freke is backing away from any useful assertion. recent Tf is not sure-footed, not helpful.
AND HIS JUST DENIED THAT the EARTH IS THE CENTER OF EVERYTHING, contradicting astral ascent mysticism that I figured out.
Who in antquity Classical Antiquity created the cosmos model of 7 planets + the sphere of the fixed stars?
I’m not interested here in heliocentric, or precession of equinoxes. More basic model for astral ascent mysticism: formed when?
I am trying to ease back my assertions, in order to more vigorously assert a specific pair of Compatibilism of possibilism-thinking & eternalism-thinking.
Timothy Freke is easing back his assertions, b/c he fails to put forth a coherent, helpful system, to model Psilocybin transformation.
His modifications are good to hear, but, I hear him too much backing away from clarity and specificity that is useful and relevant.
Timothy Freke is becoming DIRECTIONLESS. So reasonable, he’s directionless. I go the distance.
Freke’s qualifying of his previous statements, is valuable, but the end result is NOT going to be a breakthrough explanatory framework to form a useful new technology of Transcendent Knowledge like the Egodeath theory.
DIRECTIONLESS. Not very useful/ helpful/ relevant/ simple/ clear, like the Egodeath theory.
Incoming
“I don’t know what ‘Ultimate Truth’ means, any more.” — Timothy Freke – “truth means something you can trust.”
Psilocybin is the test of trust, of integrity and merit.
If your mental model is viable and coherent, in the Psilocybin loose cognition state, then your mental model is “true”.
“Forget absolute truth.”
I DISAGREE; SO, I AM MORE USEFUL AND HELPFUL THAN FREKE.
We experience as freewill personal control agents, and, the underlying reality is eternalism. I don’t waffle there.
Freke is repositioning himself to distance himself from pop utterances about spirituality.
I definitely assert:
We experience as freewill personal control agents
The underlying reality is eternalism.
We can sort of – in a specific way — transcend eternalism.
If Freke can’t say specific assertions like that, he loses & I win. Timothy Freke fails to delete deliver THE SYSTEM; I deliver THE SYSTEM / the gnosis. He’s not up for the challenge of assertion; I am.
“Before the No Self tradition (it’s a reaction) was “each one of us is a spark of God, that is your self”.
Freke, like me, is critiquing WAYS OF WRITING. Need more inclusive ways of writing and affirms the individual, the ego system, the self, time – they DO exist.
The hard, non-lazy work is to avoid dumb inarticulate biinaryies, “does time exist, or not? does ego exist, or not? Yes or No?” as i say, “IN WHAT WAY” is X true or real? or illusory. BE SPECIFIC. Not lazy & inarticulate.
“These two aspects, contrasted or pitted against each other.” Both make sense, but in a new way.
Learn to integrate the self; bring the POVs into integration.
How is possibilism-thinking to be honored?
How is eternalism-thinking to be honored?
How do these two mental models work together as a whole that’s effective and enlightened?
Against such negation-eager, cliched way of writing.
“The Hermetic corpus is a spiritual and intellectual treasure stemming from ancient Egyptian sages who could write and think in Greek.
“Since the Renaissance, this corpus has appeared in an order that does not fit the path of spiritual initiation suggested by the corpus itself.
“The present edition reorders the corpus—including the Latin Asclepius and the Nag Hammadi Hermetica—into four progressing parts: introductory tractates, general discourses, detailed discourses, and revelatory discourses.
“A short spiritual commentary follows each tractate.
“The book is written for all lovers of the Hermetica, but in particular for those who are willing, in some sense, to join the way of immortality.”
The Way of Zen by Alan Watts: “Truth Is Unspeakable” –> Freke, Ok <Throws Book into Fireplace>
Ways of Thinking of Eastern Peoples: Freke Is Rejecting the Trite Cliched Ways of Talking About Transcendent Knowledge
Freke’s adjustments late in theorizing are like mine.
He uses so much of the same conceptual vocabulary, need to focus on what the differences are – but we both have moving trajectories in core theory and in expression/ description of core theory.
Freke & the Egodeath theory both are rejecting tired old language of talking about mysticism.
I affirm a kind of compatibilism. Described well in emails in idea development p. 26.
Timothy Freke: Reconcile Individual & Nondual; eternalism & possibilism; altered state & ordinary state
Per Ken Wilber – “embrace and include” both views.
“not all nonduality is anti-individual; my approach was always a both/and approach”.
“the absolute and the relative” POVs
Brand of Religion: Emergent Spirituality
Brendan Graham Dempsey video interview of Timothy Freke, Jan. 23, 2025
Video title: “Live with Tim Freke“ YouTube channel: Brendan Graham Dempsey Jan .23, 2025 METAMODERN MEANING PODCAST “On Saturday, January 18, Sky Meadow Institute hosted a virtual meet-up and open Q&A with Tim Freke, author of Soul Story and a leading thinker in the emergent spirituality space.”
I wonder if I should have posted the transcripts of other videos instead.
I have now learned how to clean up the YouTube transcripts.
I am not interested in discussing survival of the soul after bodily death, which seems to be the topic of Soul Story.
I’m interested in critiques of pop spirituality cliches.
— Michael Hoffman
Host:
“well hi everyone uh I’m glad everyone could make it and uh this is a veryspecial uh kind of first of its kind event um and uh comes from someconversations that uh I was having with Tim um which I’ll explain a bit more in a second but first before I say anything thank you so much Tim for uh sharing your your time with us and uh and beingopen to yeah uh open this up for you know sort of a broader Community discussion and engagement
um yeah I
I found Tim’s book
well this actually this was the the result of finding some of Tim’s uh videos um online which um Igot really interested in really intrigued by
and Tim has been talking to some very um you know familiar faces inthe broader kind of community of folks in evolutionary spirituality
um and uhso he and I did a podcast and um and then
eventually that led me to find his soul story book which um is just it’s an excellent excellent read
and I I wanted to kind of have an occasion to kind of you know amplify it and uh and and kind of shine some light on that and put it on people’s radar because I feel like it’s really just such a wonderful primer in in a really concise accessible way for some of the most important ideas you know um arguably of our current moment
and so um yeah this led to just a number of ideas around trying to uh engage more maybe
try to get Tim out to Sky Meadow Etc
and so so um this is sort of a move in the direction of
trying to engage more with each other and uh and have some more conversations and in this case um openit up to broader Community engagement
this is the first kind of event um I’ve ever done where sort of a live event andwe’ll have sort of a live Q&A and just kind of uh again open up the conversation
I’m used to more podcast conversations where they’re you know recorded and it’s it’s just a dialogue or maybe a trialogue
but um for the mostpart it doesn’t really get uh more voices in
so U yeah this kind of experiment in that and uh and I’m looking forward to seeing what what people um have to bring into this
and uh and maybe some questions that we can post to Tim and what not
so anyway um that’s kind of my little setup thanks again Tim and uh yeah I’d love to jumpinto some conversation with you about this and then um after that kind of open things up for for other people’s input
how does that sound
sounds good to me lovely
so um allright well let’s start uh and again we’ll just talk for I don’t know uh 10 minutes or so
and then people can can can join the conversation
um but
let’s start with uh your work and what you’ve been up to again
this book Soul story now is probably uh it’s not old but it’s been out there for a few years and maybe one place to start with it is just for people who haven’t read it or only minimally aware of it
like can you can you
Freke’s Vision of Emerging Mythic Spirituality, Post Scientific Revolution
give a sense of the vision that you’re that you’re working with
the sense of emerging spirituality
kind of this big new story that you’re doing
your own wonderful work to help kind of uh bring to the you know uh broaderuh public awareness
yeah uh so
I’m intrigued as to what the next big jump in our understanding
of what this crazy thing is we’re experiencing and what it means
and
why does it matter if it does
and
I’m convinced there will be a new one because there always has been before
the question is what will it be
and
when will it come
and my own hunch with it is that
A New Worldview, A New Form of Spirituality – A Transition Like the Scientific Revolution that Pushed Away Mythic Religion as “Not Up to the Job, We Can Do Far Better” — but Left Us Spiritually Adrift
that new worldview will actually be a new form of spirituality
because the last big transition was the Scientific Revolution
and
part of that was to push away Mythic religion and just go okay this is not up to the job and we can do far better and we have
and that’s enabled us to be here connecting on the internet which is pretty damn amazing really
and uh butit’s also left us kind of adrift
Spirituality Got Left Lagging Behind Science
spirituality hasn’t been able to keep up
and what
what I think is coming
and and and I’m sure everyone here may may already be part of this is
A form of spirituality that could not have existed before the Scientific Revolution — so, Post-Scientific Spirituality
a form of spirituality that could not have existed before the Scientific Revolution — so, post-scientific spirituality
and that’s both about the level of inquiry and uh doubt and questioning which has come since then
the the level of our individual reflection
but also I think there’s some key ideas and the one that is absolutely Central I think is the idea that
we live in a process that
we’re in that
we now know
We’re in an evolutionaryTM [magic key word alert] process
we’re in an evolutionary process
which is an extraordinary idea and
everything seems so far to be pointing towards it being true
so we now know we’re in this you know
EvolvedTM into Conversing About the Universe 🤯 [on cannabis]
13.8 billion years have got us from hydrogen to you and me having a conversation about the universe
which is the thing that always blows my mind
and so the question for me then as someone who has
spent his life exploring experientially and teaching around spirituality
it’s written on I don’t know 35 books on all of the different spiritual Traditions
the question for me is well
how does spirituality fit into that [into evolution]
and specifically the big questions that that like
Does the Soul Survive? or, Nonsense?
The survival of the soul, which is absolutely Central to most forms of spirituality
is that something we now just abandon that’s like
oh well
We used to believe all that nonsense, but that we’ve gone beyond that.
My own experience has pointed in the opposite direction.
Non-Ego Death
I’ve been around death a lot
I worked with the dying and uh I was a a very early in near-death experiences when I was very young and so
that’s just one example but it it’s like
where does that fit in
A ProcessTM of EmergenceTM, of BecomingTM, of FormingTM [the Egodeath theory “of transformation” (period)] [not wrong, not helpful]
and so the idea in essence Brendan I think that’s motivated Soul Story was
can I make sense of a worldview which goes what this is is a process of emergence, it’s a process of becoming or forming
[experiencing Psilocybin transformation from possibilism to eternalism, then transcendent freewill]
“TransformTM, EvolveTM, ProcessTM, EmergentTM, FormingTM” — Not Wrong, But Not Helpful
and everything
everything that has any form whatsoever is part of one natural process
can I make sense of that because it’s so beautiful and elegant nothing outside nothing before nothing just the one process of realization of forming something formless in the process of forming and
can we make sense of that
can we make sense of the scientific knowledge from that perspective
which I think we can
and then
can we
see spirituality as an emergent level
or or can we
Spirituality is an emergentTM level of the One Process
see what spirituality is concerned with as an emergent level of this one process
and I think we can and and that means that we can
integrate spiritual experience on its own terms
but by
seeing it in this new evolutionary way with our vast knowledge now in physicsand and bi ology
so that’s I think was the motivation to do it was to was to just
Push Your Theory to See if It Falls Over or is {stable building}
start in that book [Soul Story] to to lay out a almost like a program a vision of see what about if we see it like this and then
for the last eight years I’ve been pushing it and pushing it and pushing it to see It’ll fall over and it’s just got stronger and
stronger and stronger so that
To Clarify, I’m Talking About Next-Level EmergingTM & EvolvingTM & ProcessTM & FormingTM
now I’m ready to take it to the next level and share
what the last eight years have been of intensely going
right let’s really dig into this and and and bring this out and because if we can it
Bring Spirituality back in a whole new Way [specifically, the Emergent Evolution Process way]
it brings spirituality back in a whole new way
yeah awesome well there’s so much that um resonates with that I mean deeply
Resonant Frekeuncy Vibrations
deeply resonates
and the the again
Big Ideas: EvolveTM, EmergentTM, Multiple LevelsTMat the Same Time(!!)
the way that you’re able to express these uh really really big Ideas
so concisely and and accessibly is is wonderful
I feel like this is again like a primer
a wonderful introduction to this
UnfoldsTM, ResonantTM, VisionTM
uh because it just um it unfolds very beautifully and elegantly in your expression and
there’s so many things that are resonant about that Vision which I find very attractive
I should have mentioned at the outset too
where this is sort of uh
Sky Meadow Institute, Vermont, to Explore the Emergent Vision: See Spir’y thru Lens of Complexity
this event is kind of Under the Umbrella of Sky Meadow Institute
and uh
that’s the Institute that I run here in Vermont and we are really dedicated to exploring just that sort of vision that you’re explaining oflike uh of of seeing spirituality through the lens of complexity of
Soul, Spirit, Meaning, & Purpose via Systems Thinking
seeing meaning and purpose through the lens of kind of systems based thinking and trying to
apply those lenses um to that in a way that re situates what we’ve always kind of meant by things like Soul and Spirit and meaning and purpose
umbut
Take It Out of Two-Worlds Mythology[?] and Put It into that one ProcessualTM DynamicTM EvolvingTM World
taking it out of that sort of Two Worlds mythology and putting it into that one processual Dynamic evolving world that that you’re describing
um and allowing us just a different set of Yeah
Integral Theory – Ken Wilber
a different way to relate to all that stuff and those familiar with like integral uh Theory um you know have a similar sense of that kind of move which is like
Don’t Say “Spirit is Outside of the Natural World” – Say “EmergentTM” Instead
rather than say that spirit is like outside of of of the natural world
and and something like that but it’s more like uh it is
the emergent kind of a
“Knife’s edge – = {blade}? & {fire}?
image: f134 Great Canterbury Psalter with lots of blades, touching left limb
Crop by Michael Hoffman
EvolutionaryTM, EmergentTM ProcessTM Moving into the Spiritual
knife’s edge of an evolutionary process and an emergent process that we’re actually moving into the spiritual
in a sense maybe we’re uh at least inthe past uh that looked very different and and uh it’s been
Via ProcessTM of EvolutionTM and ComplexificationTM
through the process of evolution and complexification
that um yeah
these ideas that are kind of core to spiritual and religious Traditions historically come to make sense in a new light when we situate that as sort of a product of the complexification process rather than maybe somehow outside of it or uh you know undering it from the beginning and getting it going different ways of thinking about it
so it’s a a new way of approaching all this
at this and and as far as its newness as well I mean
I was going through this book again before this
and um
you’re not just stating some of those big Ideas which again other folks have been getting at for for some time as well
Tim Freke’s Novel Contributions to Perennial Cliches: Contributing New Platitudinal Process Cliches, to Evolve and Emerge the Post-Science, Spirituality Lexicon
you’re really also offering some really novel contributions to to that
um and maybe just briefly we’ll touch on this before opening it up to to some other uh people who want to bring in their ideas to the conversation
but uh one of the most striking aspects of this is is your kind of notion of the am magnos [imaginal?] or the
the kind of the the emergence of sort of the imaginal realm for human beings
and thinking about
The After-Death Experience Is Undergoing an EvolutionaryTM ProcessTM
that after death experience potentially itself is undergoing a kind of evolutionary process
so maybe just as one point which um if you wanted to speak a little bit to that
I find that a fascinating Prospect and
I’d never heard anything like that before I’d read uh your book
so I don’t know if there’s any thoughts you’d want to you know weave that into your account at all or anything else you wanted to say before uh we again kind of open this up a little bit
yeah
I got too many thoughts around that’s the truth it’s just like oh there’s a lot um so so for me uh
I’ll try very hard as I go through to Define what I mean by the terms I use
and then hopefully you know people use words in different ways
Terms: Soul, Psych
for me what I mean by the soul or the psyche thepsyche is just the Greek word for soul the ancient Greek word for soul
to me it’s like what I have been exploring is
Types of Experience: Sensual & Imaginal
oh I’m always experiencing two types of experience
I’m experiencing the sensal Sens sensual world and I’m experiencingthe imaginal
and it’s always the case and I think that’s
History of Ideas: We Are Body and Soul
what’s given rise throughout history to the idea that we are Body and Soul because we’re experiencing it every day
De-Theologize ‘Soul’
now the word Soul has got completely theologized into something else
but for me it’s like
no
The EvolvedTM ‘Soul’ or ‘Psyche’ Means the Ability to Make Sense Out of Tim’s Meaningless Utterances
that’s what it is you’re experiencing it right now with your body
you’re hearing the funny noises I’m making
and with your soul or your psyche you’re understanding the meaning
there’s no meaning in the funny noises
all of that’s on the level of the soul and that has evolved I think
there most evolutionists would say yeah of course it’s evolved
so the question is
is it just evolved as some byproduct of biology
you know is is the story which is what I see in the mainstream which is
Evolved b/c Biology, w/ Side-Effect the Psyche, that’s it?
yes it’s all evolved up to biology and then then this is side effect the psyche and and that’s it
rather than going
no
what the psyche it seems to me has evolved as a whole domain
it the as an ecosystem
just as much as a biological ecosystem
and we are in that ecosystem right now
and that’s what I mean by
the magnos [imaginal?] is that there’s an imaginal realm now
Shamanic-Practices Spirituality (ie High Dose Psilocybin); the Esoteric Traditions of 12 Grams of Golden Teacher of Righteousness to Learn How to [finally we getting somewhere] Explore the Spirit Realm of Loose cognitive association to reshape the mental model of control to 4D Spacetime Mysticism while Preserving possibilism-thinking [i may be getting slightly ahead of Tim here]
spirituality has always been about that from shamanic times
if you study shamanic if you especially if you do shamanic practices it’s about
the esoteric Traditions are all about learning how to explore that realm the spirit realm
the the the dwat [duwat?] for the Egyptians the bardos, that it’s like it’s ubiquitous
so what I’m exploring is
What happens if we take that seriously
and my experience of my own spiritual experience is
We Should Seriously Take 12 Grams of Golden Teacher to Be EvolutionaryTM, EvolvedTM; Next-Level, and EmergentTM
it’s a good idea to take that seriously
but we see that as evolutionary that the psyche has evolved and just as biological systems evolve together in an ecology so the psyche has evolved onto another level
and just as the ancient teaching would be well it’s a whole different realm
it’s not a different realm
Study the EmergentTM Realm, to Understand Lots of Spiritual Phenomena Like the Psyche
it’s a more emergent realm
and it’s that which we can study if we want to understand a whole lot of spiritual for one of a better word phenomena
like the the psyche the well
… so Let’s Talk About Physical, Bodily, Literal, Biological Death
well one of the things it does is it it gives a very simple understanding of the question that I face when I think about my death which to me is oh
When the Body Fails, the Psyche Continues, as a ProcessTM
when this biological part of my system fails does the psyche part of my system just stop
because it can’t
or is it or is this process which I am able to continue and
what intrigues me about the literature and also the N [near dth?] experiences and also being around death is that
Literal Bodily Physical Death Looks Like the Imaginal Continues More Vividly, Like Sleep & Dream
what it looks like is the imaginal not only carries on but becomes more and more Vivid
which is the same thing we all experience when you go to sleep and you withdraw your attention from the biological and you dream
FINALLY! “Take Psychedelics” (in an EmergentTM, EvolvingTM Way, of Course) “or move your focus to the imaginal”
and it’s you have an amazing dream or you take psychedelics or ka or something or you
you um in any way
12 Grams Makes you Move Focus to the Imaginal, in High Definition Spirit Realm; Then You Get Real EmergentTM, and EvolveTM, and Become Leading-EdgeTM
when you you move your focus to the imaginal it comes to life because Wherever You focus [DID YOU MEAN TO SAY, WHEN YOU INGEST 12 GRAMS OF GOLDEN TEACHER??] you start processing that in high definition
so that’s
“That 12-Gram Experience Is What I’m Trying to Explore”
that’s the beginnings of what I’m trying to explore
which is okay maybe this Spirit realm as it you know whatever you want to call it the that has itself is another is an emergent level of reality
and that
we can see it’s the Leading Edge
so that not only does this this allow us to approach
it allows us to ask questions
like could the psyche function
could you and and not regarded it as simply like worst nonsense
so that we can have an intelligent conversation about it
Developing an Ontology of the Psyche after Bodily Death, through 12 Grams of Golden Teacher
because he
what I’m developing is an ontology which makes sense of that possibility
and I and and to be able to open up to these things again
If We ALL Has 12 Grams of Cubensis, We’d All Have a Experience of the Tremendous
I think would have a tremendous impact [not?] just for individuals but also collectively
one last question
on yeah before we we uh you know again open things up is um one question thatcomes to mind for that uh which
we could spend so much time talking about is like where
here’s how I’ll frame it but it’sa admittedly
this isn’t even the right question but
Where Is the ImaginalTM Realm?
where is that imaginal realm
right like
Psilocybin Interpretation of {rock} & {tree}
if look at like the biosphere I can kind of look out there and I can point and say oh yes there’s the rocks and the trees
and if we’re maybe even talking about the new sphere [? the Ennead, above heimarmene??] you know in sense of like ah
Informational Overlay Tracked Using Our Information Processing Systems & the Cyber Internet (with Language)
there’s an informational overlay
you know
that we can kind of track using our information processing systems
and the internet and and our language
and all this stuff um you know
what you’re also describing in this book uh is
a beautiful image to me of you know this like this
this realm
uh this
this space of that imaginal spiritual
reality um where it dovetails so beautifully with other you know imagesthat I’m familiar with from say like the the imperion from Dante and the the
the construction of of God out of the imaginal
so but the question is like yeah where
how do we think about that as a reality that obviously isn’t immediately available to like point to
and you know what I’m saying there’s a
there’s a question there
well I
my Approach very much Brendan is
we’ll have a look now where is it, well it’s nowhere
it’s an imaginal space
Travel with Psilocybin to Create Imaginal Spiritual Space to Construct God
it creates space when you you can dream up a whole world and inhabit it you can you know it’s it’s
it is images of the sensory world but it doesn’t have any of the what I call postivity [?]
Avoid AlgorithmsTM that Run in the Material World
it doesn’t have any of the the the habits of the or the algorithms that run the material world
Images of Freedom to Ride a Flying Horse [Golden Teacher Starting to Kick In]
it’s images of them which allows it to have a certain Freedom which means you can get on a horse and fly
or you can
you can do anything [CAREFUL WITH THAT THOUGHT, EUGENE]
and because it’s images
You Are the Creator of Fantastic Spaces to Hear Command Voices
but you’re creating spaces through which you can walk around and you create a space in which you can hear yourself speak to yourself
which is thinking
you know you can I can say it out loud and now I’m going to say it to myself
well where did I do that
well it’s in a completely different space which has arisen like a um as a as imageof the century [?] experience
and then it’s taken off
EvolutionTM = 12 G Psilocybin Imaginal Space Truckin
so to me that’s where all the evolution is happening my you know
biologically we’ve changed but not much
Proof I’m Right: Internet Conferencing Is Working Right Now, b/c of this EvolutionTM
but what’s happened in the realm of images and ideas in the imaginal has allowed us as we said to be now on the internet talking across the whole world and that’s because of this massive Evolution that’s happening
If My Jargon Impresses You, You Are EvolvingTM
you know
to the degree that anyone here is intrigued by anything I say or you say or any else says we will be evolving now
we’re actually evolving now it’s happening this is it
and that’s how fast it is on this level
Takes 20-40 Minutes for the EvolvingTM to Kick In – we’re really moving now, I Wish I Could Claim It’s Because of my Jargon
we’re really moving now
so I I think
it’s what I what
12 Gram Psilocybin is not just spirituality that’s outdated mumbo jumbo, But the Rest is Too Old to Work
I want to be able to claim really
and and first put it out in Soler [Soul Story book?] is look
this area of spirituality far from being something to dismiss as outdated mumbo jumbo
although don’t get wrong
a lot of it is
a lot of it or
a lot of the understanding is simply old, that’s all
and and what it needs is to go what
what’s the essence of it
and and can we find that again
Can We Find Golden Teacher, Source of Mythic Imaginal, Again? If so, We’d Be the Absolute Leading EdgeTM; the Spiritual Exploration Awakening
because I think it’s the Leading Edge
I think
it’s the absolute Leading Edge , the spiritual exploration Awakening
that these are
Requires the Philosophy Strain of Psilocybin
these are where we’re going and
if we haven’t got the philosophy to support that, we won’t be able to make it there
“(I’m Presently Out of Psilocybin)”
and at the moment we haven’t
and I know there’s lots of interesting people trying [cultivating new strains]
and I want to contribute to that to try
and
the image I’ll just say this
I mean this is very
I like to try and get it down as simple as I can
As Simple as 12 G of Cubensis
because is to say look if you
if you went back to the 9th century or something and there was a big Roll of Thunder and someone went oh yeah that’s that’s Thor
Just to show what I mean, I enclose a miniature of ca. 990 which shows a mushroom-like shape, and a glass painting which shows an even more emphatic schematization of the mushroom-like crown.
that’s a that’s a that’s a big man in the sky with a an anvil hitting something it would be nearly impossible to say well maybe or maybe it’s a kind of side effect of electromagnetism because that wouldn’t make any [ __ ] sense at all
there have no idea what that means
but listening to the Thunder is the same
that’s real and I feel like
Thunderstorm Mushrooms Give Spiritual Experiences that Are EvolvingTM
with spiritual experience it’s like look these things are significant spiritual experiences which themselves are evolving
everything’s evolving, so they’ve changed too as we’ve changed
but our understanding needs to jump forward as to what they are and why they matter so much
The mushroom-trees Are Psilocybin, Matters because Causes control instability driving mental model transformation from possibilism to eternalism
because I think anyone and
I suspect many people here have had them
you know
if you have these profound experiences you know subjectively this is really significant
it really is I for me it’s like
Nothing Comes Close to 12 G Cubensis
there’s nothing comes close
so how can we understand them now in a way that does them Justice?
Study the Egodeath TheoryTM of Psychedelic EternalismTM
I think that’s the motivation
yeah well of course you and Icould keep talking and I would love that but I want this to be an occasion uh for other people to to uhyeah bring their ideas and voices in the mix
so um let’s open it up at this point I’ll continue to have you know questionsand things I can throw at you if uh if
if people don’t want to um jump uh to the microphone so to speak uh right away so but if anyone does have anything that they um want to ask or bring into the conversation and we can open this up uh
just I guess uh you know use your react to button and you know raise your hand if you’re able to do that and then uh Ican just kind of call on you um and then yeah I’d love to get other people’s thoughts on all of this and hopefully at least this has been
so yeah just go ahead and do that anytime that that you’d like um but hopefully this is oh great
we’ve got some we off wonderful we’re off all right well then
I’ll stop uh pontificating then and
let’s go to Lawrence go you had your hand up first
hi Lawrence I’m here I’m here umuh so I understand what you’re saying Tim and um I kind of agree with it but
the um what about in other words if if
if Consciousness is is an epipphenomenon of the brain or is in the brain can Consciousness exists outside the brain but in another physical Matrix in other words in in an energy field in other words or you know like Mr Cel Drake says the the you know the morphogenic field
and I see like
if we have a energy field and then conscious goes from your brain into that field and I call it the cosmic memory field whatever um and
then it remains active
in other words
it could do things in that field
so in other words
Eternal Conscious Life through Wishfulgenetic Fields
it can exist individually with other Consciousness collectively
what do you think of that
uh well
Answer = Resonate Vibrations: When I Was a Child, I Thought as a Child
I resonate with the uh way the place you’re going very much
and and andand rer
when I was younger especially was a big influence on me
and
I Hung with Sheldrake when I Was Childish
I had the chance to talk to him a few times about it
he’s a lovely man the I I I
let me say the same thing back to you in a different words
just because that’s the way that I have come to see it
first of all
‘Consciousness’ = ‘Psyche’ Rises EmergentlyTM
the word Consciousness
the word is used in widely different ways
I think you’re using it as a as a word
I I’m not trying to presume Lawrence but like
the way that I use the word psyche
that you know this
this thing which has arisen
now the question you’re raising is of course the big question which is
The Psyche Can Exist Without the Brain, If You Take My Courses and Buy My Merch
is it [the psyche] a byproduct of the brain or can it exist without the brain
my
what I’m trying to explore
I’m going to try and say this really fast
there’s quite a lot to say so I’m going to try and cover it which is that it I think I think
Consciousness = Pay Attention to My Marketing Jargon Overlay Covering the Actual, Psychedelics Engine
paying attention is what Consciousness is
we’re conscious of what we pay attention to when when we’ve evolve to pay attention to our own processing it’s given rise to this world of images so the psyche has arisen from the biological sphere
I would definitely say that however
Analogy Is the Fastest Way to Communicate Psilocybin’s EmergentTM EvolvingTM Effects
the ontology that I want to explore is quite close I think to what you’re saying which is let me use a metaphor just because or an analogy actually
it just
it’s the quickest way to try and get it across
it feels that
Understanding the Universe on Psilocybin Is Like an AI Learning System, Like the Latest Technology from 1200 to Instruct a Class about Balancing in a Mushroom-Tree to Avoid Loss of Control
Cybernetic Transcendence
Crop by Michael Hoffman
we can understand the universe a bit like a learning AI system now
it’s not an AI system it’s not a computer it’s reality but it’s the latest technology
and it’s giving gives us a fabulous analogy because what we now know is
Cybernetics Is Information and Communication About Control & 4D Spacetime Mysticism
first of all physics has shown that the the language we need to understand the very very Primal levels of reality are inform as information it’s not matter it’s information
and what is information
it’s differentiation into this or that
that’s what the bit is the simplest piece of information
so what the way I have come to see things is
Mystic Revelation Is Oneness Non-Dual Beginner Unity Experience
the universe is a fundamental Oneness which is formless it has no form which is being differentiated into everything and
Enlightenment = ComplexityTM & Resonant Frequency Quantum Vibrations
that one process which is from the very simplest thing you can possibly imagine is becoming ever more complex
and we now know from AI that you can Google just did this didn’t they last year if you saw it was fascinating
if you take digital information random information and weight l enough it starts forming patterns
and they start interacting with each other
there you go that’s what looks like the universe is and
those patterns I think are what sheldrake’s trying to get at with his morphic resonance I call it postivity because what it seems to me is that
Domino-Chain Causality of Pattern Recognition Formation Evolve Emergent Process
everything that has formed starts governing what can happen next
so that the patterns that have Arisen will continually repeat
but it’s
but never in quite the same way
so that you’re in a process which is governed by repetition what I call postivity and creativity
so so it’s it’s work every you look at this moment
In the Revealed, 4D Spacetime Block, All Moments Equivalently Exist
This Moment’s pretty much the same as the one before
but not quite
oh
and this one and this one and it’s like and
that’s continually happening now
that’s very much
like an AI system, it’s generative
Transcendent Knowledge is like Magic Propagation of Pattern Recognition
it takes the patterns of the past and slight does something new with them and I think
that’s what’s got us to here this evolution of information
now to me the way that I’ve ended up looking at it which has been definitely inced by by by rert would say would be to say it’s like
4D Spacetime: The Past Exists and Information Sits Distributed: the past hasn’t passed; no meta-change and meta-flow
the past hasn’t gone anywhere it’s actually information which is accumulating
the past hasn’t passed
it’s accumulated
there’s more of it now than there was
there’s more of it now than there was
there’s more of it now than there was
Mental Patterns in 4D Spacetime Are Algorithms that Cybernetically Govern; the 4D Spacetime Heimarmene Block Governs All Creatures and Control-Thoughts
and that past is creating the let’s call them algorithms or habits or rup put would call them which is governing how everything is functioning
so you’ve done a lot of things already there one of one of the things you’ve done is you’ve gone
look even
Psilocybin Transformation is EvolutionaryTM
the laws of nature are evolutionary
everything’s evolutionary
they’ve also come into form
and then you’ve gone the past
physics for a long time has talked about time as a dimension
that the past exists
WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE? WHAT DOES PHYSICS’ “TIME AS A DIMENSION” SAY ABOUT THAT? “Process”, “Evolution”, “Emergent” — Domino-Chain Causality Verbs Frozen in 4D Spacetime Block with No Meta-Change
we are we
we are a process
we are and
Domino Chain Causality, Ego Steering Through Branching Possibilities Forward in Time to Create the Open Future
this is arising from the past now in an AI system
Throw More “Change” Verbs at the Frozen 4D Spacetime Block, to Shatter It and Be Born Forth from the Cosmic Rock: Chant “Action!” “Evolve!” “Emerge!” – Use of terms to imply Open Future
it’s arising all that information is isis on a hard disk and
the analogy I would throw out very quickly here is going look I think
the past is like the hard disk of the universe
it’s not a hard disk but it’s like one
so in the same way that I’m looking at this screen right now and if someone came up and went um all that exists is what’s on thescreen Tim I
I would say no you don’t be DED [?]
there’s a there’s a hard disk behind this
everything is huge [?] and what I see on the screen is just what arises from it and I think
what we experience is that the forming the moment is like that it’s the equivalent of the screen of the universe and
Egoic Branching-Based Domino Chain Causality Suspended Halfway Between Egoic and Transcendent Thinking
the hard disk is all of the past which is governing what everything does now
if you get that then you can look at your identity in a different way
because you can go oh I’m not just this
I am all of my past
I Am My Past, and I Control and Create My Open Future by Ego Steering Power
I am all of the algorithms that make Tim speak with an English accent not an American accent
which you know which keeps my biology working which I can say these things because I’ve read these books or had these thoughts
I Had Past Thoughts, and I Am Creator/ Emerger/ Evolver/ Process-Driver of My Future Thoughts
every so I am and so are you
so what’s happening now is
you’re meeting everything that’s ever been Tim
and I’m meeting everything that’s ever been Nish or Rebecca or Brendan or Justin
it’s like
that’s what we are
I Am My Past (I Am Not My Future, Because That Hasn’t Been Created and Steered into Existence Yet by Me Selecting from Branching Possibilities Open to Me)
Do Not Look at the Source of Control Thoughts; Look Down at Your Biological Level Only
so then you can look at the biological level and go ah so it’s more complicated than or more interesting than I’m I’m a biological thing
I am but actually I’m the system which is running this
I Am the Control System
which is why cells come and go all the time trillions of them and
why you have heard the estimates I’m sure youk now that every single atom in my body is different from 10 years ago because all of that’s passing through because I’m not that
I mean
I am that in one way obviously , but I’m not I’m the system organizing this moving things around to keeping it going
and then you go okay
and then there’s another level to the system, what does that do?
well
it organizes imaginal information so you’ve now got a program as it were on the hard disk which is organizing this level and this level
now what happens if if this this this level of the psyche has evolved so much now that it can just keep functioning and the analogy and look these are very quick analogies
please forgive me but I’m trying to get across some ideas very quickly here
if if here we are connecting on zoom and you can see me and you can hear me but if right now suddenly we lose the sound and
you’re not going to think
“that’s impossible that’s impossible how how can I see him but not hear him, because they’re the same thing, they’re all part of the same thing”
you’re not going to go well look we we
“we evolved the ability to convey sound decades before we we had the ability to convey visuals, how can I see him but not hear him?”
you’re not going to do that, because you know that there’s a zoom program on my computer running this, and it’s perfectly possible that the sound bit can fail and the video bit can still work
and you’ll go oh
that bit’s not working
so with this quick analogy what I’m saying is
The Postivity[sp?] Is Two Levels: Biology Information, and Imaginal
when you get that you are a postivity system, you’re a system which is organizing information on the biological level and on the level of the imaginal
what I’m Sugg interesting is
Spiritual Survival of the Soul and Psyche Spirit Consciousness = Imagination Continues to Exist After the Physical, Literal Body Dies
it’s perfectly possible that the system can fail on the level of the biological but carry on on the level of the imaginal
and that what’s surviving death isn’t some special little thingy called a soul or a spirit or conscious anything
what’s surviving is you the process that you are continues
it’s just that that bit of the process doesn’t work anymore so you can’t access the biological senses you can’t accessthe biological level that’s you can’t you can’t that’s gone but what’s surviving is you
After Your Physical Body Dies, Your Imaginal Process Continues, because You Evolved Emergent Spirituality
which is why it seems to me one of the interesting things about the near-death experience is that one of the most common common things that happens is the is the Life review where people see the whole of their life
because I’m suggesting that’s what they are
they didn’t have a life
they are a life
you are a life
that’s what you are and
that what’s happening then is that person that that process continues but just part of it dropped away
you can’t do that anymore , that’s gone
Super Vivid NDE Imaginal b/c Emergent Evolve
but you got this and that the part that you still continue with it looks to me like becomes super super Vivid and you able to enter the imaginal with much greater depth because you’re no longer carrying all of the postivity of the biological level
oh how did I do that was a bit ambitious but I had to go Lauren excellent excellent excellent but let me just follow up and so you’re saying
The psyche can exist on its own but not in another physical matrix; on Two Different EmergentTM LevelsTM
the psyche can exist on its own not in another physical Matrix
yes although I don’t
yes I do and I’m say
but I’m not saying it’s something separate
I’m saying look
there is a psychobiological system which is Lawrence right now and it’s all integrated and working together but it’s working together on two very different levels of emergent reality there’s the biological material Leveland then there’s the imaginal level level and just as we saw earlier with Brendan the imaginal level is quitedifferent there’s no space there’s no matter there’s it’s very it’s imaginal and so what I’m saying is the part of the pro the part of
the Lawrence “program” – I don’t want to devalue you; you’re a human being, but just for this analogy:
the part of the Lawrence program that when it when eventually which I suspect it will can’t function anymore on the biological level
Yes and No and Maybe and I Didn’t Assert That, Next Question, Time’s Up
it can just carry on just it’s just carry it on it’s just it can’t do that anymore
thank you thank you oh so much there but um
thank you a great question and uh
how about we go to uh Rebecca next
hi um thank you Brendan and Tim for doing this
um Tim
I didn’t even know who you were until Brendan posted the event
so uh this last week I got your book [probably Soul Story] and I read the whole thing in fact I read three of your books um and they theyresonate very much with me um I my question I think is kind of a technicalquestion um so in the in the realm of ofreincarnation um in this present Incarnation uh my name is Rebecca andI’m 55 years old let’s say in my past life I was a guy named Boband he passed away 60 years ago and 10 years later his wife died andhe was there to greet her but at that time Rebecca is now five yearsold um do does the soul do youfeel live their lifetimes at least in thepast because the the past is always there live those past livessimultaneously um no I don’t think that I think the the uh I think what thething you’re pointing to with with reincarnation is is an interesting question to which I I I have no answer Idon’t know but I it’s it’s a people do seem to meet their lovedones and there I mean basically all I’m suggesting with that I always want toroot it in what we’re experi ing now it’s like I’m already connected with my daughter and my wife I can feel them nowand if I practice I can really tune into to them I’m already I’m connected with my mother she’s died but I I’m with hera lot because I can tune into to her and so I think we’re connected we’re in thisweb of connections and so the fact that that becomes something that happens to us when we die that seems quiteplausible to me um whether some how long somebody Waits before they reincarnate I
don’t know maybe it varies who knows but the but the question you’re asking aboutthe time it feels to me like no this is a process where one thing leads to another leads to another leads toanother and that that seems to be at that this process ofbecoming is what existence is so it’s not that what I’m suggesting is that itcan’t happen at the same time because it’s one thing after another and it can’t and we can’t go back in timebecause we’re going forward it’s the wrong analogy we don’t go back and forward it’s not time is not like goinginto town and coming home time is like something which is accumulating it’s forming and forming and forming andforming and what forms is based on what was formed already but in newrelationships so that would be where I’ve ended up with that at the momentRebecca thank you uh cool let’s go toAaron hey uh I am uh really excited touh meet yall I’ve been really looking forward to this uh I’m someone who’sbeen uh working on ideas about emergent spirituality ever since I read G girdleeser Bach and dropped acid back in college and I was actually uh about 300pages into building a WI wedia site about emergent spirituality when I came across Bobby aerion’s book and hissubstack and then when I joined his substack it recommended me Brendan substack and then I was like holy cowthese metamodern guys are doing almost exactly the same thing I’m trying to do so uh um but I noticed you know youguys uh tend to approach it I think from more of an academic philosophical and more of a new age spiritual uh tact uh Icome from a very secular humanist background uh I I was very involved inthe Sunday Assembly movement which is the uh The Atheist Church uh for formany years and that’s kind of where I come from and I know that thepeople in that neighborhood absolutely need moremeaning in their spirituality that’s the main problem that I saw with SundayAssembly is that it didn’t have that element to it it didn’t have the spiritual element they were goingthrough the motions but they didn’t have the vibe you know and uh my but if you were to havethis conversation about like reincarnation and the afterlife and things like that in front of that groupthey are going to roll their eyes so hard and my question is how can wepresent emergent spirituality in a way that can really be Broad ly uhunderstood and accepted can we create a populist emergentspirituality uh that that can really go beyond kind of the niche philosophical movement that it currently
is great question Ain so my I’ve been around the block with this for so manyyears I can’t tell you the place I’ve ended up right now is obviously say what’s appropriate to the people you’retalking to um but also I think we need to be bold I think we know with the issue of doesthe soul survive death does psyche survive death it’s going well either it does or it doesn’t we need to find outwe this we should be focusing on this we need to you know it’s a pretty important thing does it does that happen or not isthere a level of reality in which we’re connected in the way that
I’m suggesting or not and that we should have the samelevel of inquiry that we would have with any other level and I have immensesympathy or or empath was the right word resonance with uhatheists because most of the atheists I know are very smart rational people andthey’ve taken this idea of I’m I’m going to go for God can I do can I do that Brendan can I have a quick let let’shave a go at God go for it because this will address what you’re saying so you know to me I experienced something Ithought of was God very early on in my life blew my mind and I’ve had a relationship with something greater than me all through my life now you haven’thad any of that it sound like nonsense and that’s part of the problem you know if people who haven’t had theseexperiences it will sound like people are either making it up or they’re mentally ill and given the state ofspirituality which is just so full of charlatans and nonsense I I I understandwhy they would think that
so one of the things we need to do is we need to be able to share these profound experiencesthat’s one of the things so that people go oh right that’s what you’re talking about yeah what is that right ratherthan you know so that people actually have an interest you know a lot of people who have these that that rollingof the eyes around death have not looked into it have not gone into near-death experiences or have not been around
people dying very much if you do it changes everything because it’s like wowokay what’s this we have hundreds of thousands of accounts hundreds of thousands accounts of people going yeahI died and they medically died and some of them are neuroscientists you these are smart people and they’re going andthis happened well we shouldn’t just dismiss it oh well that’s just nonsense that’s that’s the place where I want tostart so engaging with it rationally the problem with spirituality is it’s pre-scientific it’s pre- rational weneed to be we need to be questioning we need to be rational then what I’m suggesting as a possibility is how howabout we can look at it in this way
so that it so it doesn’t have to be wooooso I think the whole Mythic God at the beginning who’s creating the universeI just think it’s doesn’t work and so I completely with the atheists it’s likeif there’s a God at the beginning he doesn’t know what he’s doing I mean there was five there’s been five wholeextinctions this God’s got no idea it’s taking him 13.8 billion years to get tous having this conversation we’ve gone through 250 million years of dinosaurs this God’s an idiot and and and thenlook at the world it’s so full of needless suffering you know it’s you know what I mean it’s like you know Idon’t want to you know suffering can play a role but some of it is just so all those the one that always gets mewas reading an account of a of a of
a little boy who’d gone swimming and a bug thing had gone into his ear and then ehis brain from the inside it’s like no [ __ ] that that is you know any God that’s responsible for that is one thatI’m not I don’t like him so is we’ve got this mean stupid God at the beginningdoesn’t work and what what I think the the The Atheist Spirit has come in and going oh for goodness sake and I thinkthey’re right it’s like yeah enough of that of course but hang on I keep havingthis experience and it’s not of something mean and stupid it’s of something Sublime and so loving and just like moreand just so much that it blows my it’s just this enormous benevolence and loveand so my what I’m playing with is okay okay well what about if this starts withthe simplest thing you can imagine which is the formless in relationship as a bitof information can’t get
any simpler than that but it’s evolved into the psyche which is this whole domain andthen from there it has evolved into another level another Supersystem which is what we experience as God so that it’s real it’s completelyreal it’s just not this madman at the beginning it’s the most emergent level of reality and the model for me for thatwould be somehow a whole load of individual cellsgot it together to form multicellular organisms eventually as complex as you and meastonishing well what if the same thing is happening on the next level and that when human when the psyche when humanbeings come into these spiritual states of Oneness when they they enter theseemerging awaken States they start to inte and what that integration is is acommunion of souls like the body is a communion of cells and the that so thethe big mind isn’t at the beginning the big mind is made of all the little mindsand again to use the computer analogy without wishing to sound completely crass you know if you take a whole load of AI systems and you plug them alltogether you get a super AI system and that’s an analogy for what I think is happening so we’re we’re tuning intosomething which is itself evolved so the so the UN so God isn’t God is a difficult word don’t even need to usethat word but that big mind that what that super intelligence is not where it’s comefrom the universe is flowering into God if you will just like it flowered intoyou just like you started as a a fertilized egg and then went through a whole lot ofbiological stuff and then
developed cons conscious and then developed a psyche and then off you gone and he you nowthat the Universe kind of is playing out the same basic pattern it’s starting with the simplest thing just the one astwo something we can only study with maths and it’s developed into life andthen it’s developed into psyche and then it’s developed into this Sublime super system and we can be partof that and that when we enter these deep spiritual States and I think they’re accessible toanyone i’ I’ve been sharing them for decades now all around the world that you can slip into them muchquicker than people think and so that what I would say to groups like who meeting is going look this is a way thatyou could approach this level and and see and first of all experience it and secondly go you don’t have to retreatinto a mythological mumbo jumbo you can think about this rationally and here’s a way that you could see it so that that’swhat that’s my answer to how we can go forward at the moment eraawesome big question and uh yeah go ahead Aaron I was gonna say how how do youthink of what do you think about pantheism as a way to get atheists to see the universe morespiritually um I don’t the problem with pantheism for me is it it it get it’s ait’s a it’s it’s still this idea that there’s something at the beginning whichis you know that God is arising as everything
well I two either there’s nothing there’s there’s two types of itreally there’s panentheism and pantheism so pantheism really the word God doesn’t mean anything if you just go with theuniverse is God which is what um oh God I can’t remember his name howembarrassing yes thank you thank you there you go you went straight there which was what Spinosa is saying I meanit’s it’s a it’s a way of trying to rescue God but it doesn’t mean anything anymore if you have panentheism which iswhat hegel’s saying you’ve still got God but God is arising as the universe and that’s very much the route I took for avery long time until it felt like no that’s not working there’s we need to see the beginning as radically simpleit’s not it’s not it doesn’t start with anything which is conscious or intelligence so not intelligent designbut the universe is the evolution of intelligence not a Creator but the universe is the evolution of creativityso when we say the one at the beginning what I mean by that now is not the onewhich is conscious and has intentions and wants to know itself and is kind of really
God Imean something that’s undivided just one has no other qualities it’s justundifferentiated that undifferentiated being is differentiating as everythingand then that anything we might want to use such a grand word as God or thatthat that greater than us n that you can experience that that’s not that’s that’swhere it’s going that’s not where it’s come from that’s where it’s going hey thanks so much yeah it’s areal pleasure yeah I want to go to Nish next but I also um it’s an invitation to chat with you Aaron and whoever elsewould like to explore this topic because around how we present these ideas to different audiences based on wherethey’re coming from based on you know are you coming from an atheistic background or religious background or what kind of religious there’s uh how welanguage these ideas and and um you know allow the conversation to to evolve anddevelop I think is a really important topic I think a lot about and um yeah I think that we there’s a lot more thatcould be said about that and trying to do that effectively hopefully events like this and things that various groupsof ours now like you’re up to this as well are doing that are offering these things to different kinds of groups and are landing in different spaces so weneed like a diversity of those um but I think uh I think that’s the that’s the sort of question we need to be askingand uh yeah can I add something else to that Brandon go ahead so this is my personal thing and I know that you knownot everyone feels this this is this is where I’ve ended up at the moment what I see is there’s I saw thatthat Rebecca mentioned Sam’s book I don’t I I haven’t um really studied Samin great detail so I’m not it’s not about him but what I see is that people who
are trying to bring science andspirituality together the ways that I’ve done it in the past has beento have something let’s call it I don’t know I did it a bit in story it’s in you know I’ve moved on from there where it’slike there’s a there’s a big mind or then a spirit or something which emanates or does something magic and andall of that which is still in the mythical mindset it’s still taking Concepts and what I mean let me Definewhat I mean by mythical it seems to me that there’s a very common anachronisticuse of language where we use the long the wrong language for the wrong level so and and science does it in one wayand spirituality does it in another so science has discovered that if youreally want to study the found conditionals of the universe you need to use mathematics that is what works butif you then take that language of mathematics and apply it to everything and go we can reduce you know everythinggets reduced your your love for your child is really just chemicals chemicals are just matter matter is justmathematics it’s like no it’s not each level is more than more than more thanthat’s the whole point of emergence so we can’t use this language here I can use it for studying for studying physicsbut I can’t I can’t it’s not going to help me when I want to understand why I love my daughter conversely whatspirituality has done because it’s old completely understandably is it’s takenthe language from the human level and applied it to previous levels well justearlier I said you went back in time and how would they understand Thunder well it’s a big man with a manthat’s taking the human level which is what you’ve got and going is is that that’s what’s happening it’s not we knowyou know because we now have understood it in completely other in mathematical language so that what’s the Mythic istaking the language of Consciousness intentionality purpose all these thingsthat will take billions of years to arrive and putting at the
beginning wellthat hasn’t happened what you’ve got here is a level that can only be understood with the the most fundamentalabstract relationships that we study with maths very cold that’s why people don’t like maths it’s because it’s veryfar from The Human Experience but it’s going to turn into The Human Experienceso what I see is that what I did before was I took the evolutionary process and this is the panentheism and went wellthere’s the something or the other spirit and then it’s projecting itself or coming to know itself or some Mythicthing and what I’ve done since has gone no no no none of that none of that andthen what I see with the other side and I think this is what people like Sam doing but please forgive me if I don’tknow his work well enough but you know the things I mean which is to take spirituality and go well obviouslythat’s all nonsense but meditation is good for you it changes your brain waves and you know you can find meaning and wecan translate spirituality into a kind of unspiritual form where we dismiss allthat because that’s mumbo jumbo and obviously the soul doesn’t survive death that’s nonsense but we can take the goodbits I think both of those are mistaken for the same reason that the other thing the anachronistic I think we need to bebold enough to go this is addressing a level of reality you can experience itfor yourself we just haven’t understood it and we need to think radic in radically new ways to understand it notto not to reduce it but not toti stick with the old Mythic ways of thinking wewe we need to develop a radically new that’s what I mean by an emergentspirituality so thank you let me rip on that Brendon I just oh yeah this is this is good stuff Rich stuff really enjoyingthis uh let’s go over to Nish go ahead Nish and great to see you hi n hi Tim
thank you so much for this um so I’ve got two questions actually so I’ll be quick the first question is the use ofthe term spiritual and tying it in with um a view of the cosmos as an anemerging or emerging system typically more traditionally the word spiritualhas been used to denote something uh that is concerned with something Beyondsomething Transcendent something that gives meaning to life which is otherwise meaningless some kind of relationshipbetween self and spirit now if we want to use the word spiritual in thisemergent Paradigm do we need to completely red defined spiritual or isthere a place
for these ideas Transcendent meaning Spirit do they justget redefined or is it something completely different and in what sense is it spiritual then yeah so that’s myfirst question second question relationship between the brain and the mind brain and the imaginal so two twomodels there’s a simple ladder model where matter complexifies to become lifelife complexifies to become mind hey hey Nish let me stop you let’s do the first one and then I because then I canconcentrate on the second one because I don’t want I don’t want to I don’t want to lose the first one because it was really good and and I I want to reallyget what you’re saying so so I’ve lost it already so just it’ll come back what was the first question was oh spiritualspiritual yeah how some Spirit yeah I know I’ve thought about that as well andpart of me you know I make up a lot of words because I can’t find a word I like and I thought maybe I need to do thatspiritual but somehow we need to make a bridge so what I mean by spiritual isreally what I what I think of is is about spiritual experience it’s a type of experience and what I mean byspiritual experience in its most simplest form is those moments when people justgo there’s more going on here isn’t there than my sociobiological existencethat just that now that that’s the the simplest form which I think a lot of people get just like yeah I kind of Livbeen living like this and hang on there’s something more going on here isn’t there a lot of people get that IR around death for instance right to thoseAwakenings where you go oh my God you know how did I miss all of this so we need some way of pointing tothat and then what I’m suggesting
with things like Transcendence and is that the thing I’m exploring theessential idea is what if existence is this process of becoming everything isone process of becoming CU it’s one and so that the levels that we previouslysaw as outside are the more emergent levels and in one way they’re outside because they’re not physical there we weStep Into the imaginal Now human beings have wrestled with the relationship between the imaginal and the sensoryforever and the traditional idea which emerged was that you are really the soulthe psyche and you’ve become trapped in a body and is this is not a good placewhich is why it’s such so full of suffering and life is so [ __ ] and you need to get yourself free and you know Plato
the body is a tomb and the whole Eastern tradition this ADM and you’resamsara and you get free get free then what’s happened they had no noidea about the evolutionary process so what we can do now is go no
no it’s it’s not this is not this the reason it’s sothe reason that it’s bittersweet that it can be so beautiful and also so bitter is because it’s even evolutionary itjust doesn’t know what it’s doing and we we are the ones going oh that that’s not good I love that more of that less ofthat that that because we are the universe become conscious so we can now do that and then this Transcendent levelis is I would suggest is this Divine superp system whatever name you want to give to that and when you touchthat that is the most that’s where the that I’m I’m working Brendan said
I’m working on a new project which is going to come out hopefully next month which will be a series of me talking like this but as chapters chapter one chapter 2 chapter 3 I call it a pod book because it’s a a love child of a podcast and a book the structure of a book and then the kind of spontaneity of a podcast or like this and I’ve called it why your life really matters because to me all of this philosophy and all of the experience is all about what are the the signifance significance of our lives and that’s meaning and I think if you touch if weif you have this understanding that that we are evolving into this greater thingand then then you experience it and you start living in relationship to it which is what you’re saying Nish as Iunderstand you then all of that the same experiences that were understood through
the Transcendent or something outside from which we’ve Fallen because that’s the that’s the old idea fundamentallywe’re Fallen God is already there and we’re a spark that’s got lost or we’re asoul that has you know got stuck in a lower level and it just flips that around and goes no no no not nothing as
pessimistic as that we can be much more optimistic about this this is reaching up further and further intothat and your life is part of that you you play a role in that and that’sthat’s that’s the meaning so that’s how I approached the spiritualthing as well as acknowledging what you said it’s a difficult word because youknow I live in a place called glastenbury
I don’t know if you know about it in in the US but glastenbury isa kind of new age it’s crazy I mean it’s just like so much of spirituality I just wantto run down the street sometimes going stop and think about it for a minute cuz it’s just so so nuts um butyou know that’s the problem with like language thank you thank you so much sowhat was number two yeah number two uh the relationship between brain and mindand the and you you were going to give me some models yes a couple of simple
models um there’s
Ladder Model
there’s the kind of more simple ladder model where you have matter matter complexifies becomes lifelife complexifies becomes mind yeah and we can think of those perhaps as uhfloors of a house and from what we can see you you can’t have life without matter I mean like youcan’t have a molecule without you kind of without atoms because it makes it up so for the imaginal realm which I’massuming is to do with mind
for that to existindependently in some way after life has fallen away would be like the secondfloor of a house kind of still being there after the first floor has fallen away that is okay so I’d need to alittle bit more on that to think about how that might work
Integral Theory – Ken Wilber
the second model which is slightly more complex modelwhich is the integral model of Ken Wilbur you have four quadrants and here instead ofreducing brain to mind or or saying that they’re radically separate they’re they’re two aspects of the same co-arising poon yeah and they co-arise together and the evidence for this seems to be that as there does seem to be a correlation between the complexification of brainand the complexification of mind
yeah um so again here
for the imaginal realm to exist independently you’d have to kind of take one of those quadrants uh and and say well that quadrant is going to continue independent of the other three even though they seem to be co-arising together.
So how would this fit into these kind of understandings where it all seems to be they all seem to be part of the same thing and not okay so it says they’re wrong okay um it says no don’t think about it like that there’s a better way um and part of my impetus to doing Soul story
Tim Freke Seeing What Ken Wilber Is Up To
and then all the work I’ve done since was being was seeing particularly what Ken was up to
and you know loving what he was up to
and also feeling like this is not right
this this bit here so so which can I address first um
let’s go for your levels
first of all complexity
it’s more
it has become more complex because there’s more past but things also simplify I just want to point that out
you know that it is more complex because there’s more and more past so there’s more and more information but things can also become simpler
it’s not like just everything just gets more and more complex
you see that in the evolutionary process just important but the past is what is Emer gent is is is um accumulating
so there’s just more and more information in that way it is more and more and more now what I’m suggesting is that we don’t think about
this as a Hol on I think that’s the mistake maybe I can do both of them at once the the the the the Ken idea if youtake it as the ins inner it’s like well I’m not sure it is I think it’s a complete new level I think that the thesubjective experience on the level of the body is thesensations the subjective there’s a subjective and objective level to thepsyche there’s a subjective and objective level to the biological and there’s a subjective and objective levelto the psyche the psyche is not the subjective level of the of the body the senses are look this is another level sothen it goes okay so this if that’s right if this this this is an objective and subjective level as well like thebody level is it built is it the next floor and I think that’s a confusion ofhonic systems with emergent systems emergent systems aretemporal some of them are are honic some of them arise by combining otherelements into a bigger hole the body is like that I think Gods like that but the psyche doesn’t combine
lots of bodies into another hole it’s a completely different thing it’s like youknow it’s like when you look at the emergence of social systems say completely different they’re emergentbut modernity didn’t gather together lots of feudal feudalism and build it’sjust change it comes to another level and what I think is happening with the psyche is that the psycho the biologicalsystem has evolved senses it has evolved to focus on whatmatters because that’s of great evolutionary benefit that’s what we experience as conscious all the rest weexperience as unconscious and then the process which has been going on for ever it canthen focus on that and that’s when it turns this whole new imaginal level arises and it’s not the flaw built on itit’s emerged from it it couldn’t have you couldn’t have the world of images until you’d have the experience ofSensations so it’s emergent it can only come by emergent that’s all I mean by
emergent by the way I just mean you couldn’t have this until you got that yeah I really so thatyou couldn’t have had you’re right the psyche until you got the senses and and the biological being conscious but it’s not another flaw it’s another aspect of the system which is arising you know it’s like the first sense is probably touch but sight isn’t built on
touch it’s another sense that developed and I think
the psyche is another sense
it’s a way of sensing the universe but it senses itself as well so it can sense its own processing and that arises as images
so so the two things I would say is I think I mean
I love Ken’s work
he’s very he’s done huge contribution but
I don’t think this the idea that the psyche is the inner aspect I think it’s a mistake
I think it’s missing that it’s a whole new level and and it’s absolutely essential to have that and
part of the reason that Ken doesn’t do that is because he’s got a load of spirituality at the beginning really with his whole life idea of involution so he’s really got it still in a Mythic context which is what I talked to him about when I filmed with him um so that’s why I think he’s he heis wrong and I also want to go look it’s not honic some things are honic but most of emergence isn’t
most of emergence is just new things new a system developing new new abilities new qualities the honic jumps are quite specific and quite rare so
the whole flaws thing is completely the wrong model and and what you’ve got is this evolving system on the hard disk of the universe the postivity and it’s developing to be able to do things and any system
I I wouldsay that
the whole evolutionary process has got kind of three aspects
so that and those three you know
Darwin stumbled ac across these three aspects so brilliantly with natural selection
but but but natural selection is only the biological level
obviously there whole physical level before that
so whatever the principles of evolution are they’re not just natural selection or genetics because there was nogenetics and I think
the principles are postivity and creativity the repetition and newness so things repeating but coming but never quite the same always coming into new relationships and then
sustainability which is any system has to fit in with the whole and when itcan’t that system will stop
that’s what happens everywhere you know it fascinating you know even with with like basic atoms they took quite a long time to be able to form and stay formed because they didn’t have any postivity I would say it’s chaotic
and then they formed and now they’re formed they’re just formed easy and that’s gone through
biology the same and and and and we can hold it together more and more
we’re all you know lived historically long lives already everyone here
and that’s developing and but
when it fails it will go
but the question is
is there a part of the system which can still function, because it it can still do what it does it can still —
the
the imaginal level is about working on this the level of the imaginos — it’s
that’s where it functions
it’s where it’s functioning right now
now also please don’t get me wrong I they are integrated like this right now you know you give me a sleeping tablet I will go out but what you see is as it par I mean
there’s another phenomenon I didn’t mention
when I was talking about near-death experiences which I’ve been studying a lot recently which fascinating which is terminal Lucidity which is well worth looking at
where the documentation is
it’s quite extensive again of people who have literally been had their or their brains are completely gone really and even and and then just before they die they become completely lucid
and it’s remarkably common
more common than you would possibly think
Psyche Independent from Brain: How Related?
so the whole relationship between the brain and the psyche I think is really up for grabs
how these two levels relate
and I would I would say as as an analogy that
The Body & Brain, Biological Processing/ Managment
the brain is functioning more like a interface, and that’s why it needs to be so complex because it’s first of all it’s doing all of this all of the biological level, which is huge running the body huge, so it’s it’s developed to do all of that
The Psyche Emerged from Body: Ideational Level; the ideational network
and then from it has come the psyche, which is this whole ideational level and they so the ideational network which is what the psyche is is interacting with the neurological Network which is what the body is
which is why
it functions as one thing but they are significantly different
they’re they’re different functions
that’s hence the analogy of looking at me and listening to me
they come together but they are different
and
it is possible you can have one without the other
more like that
thank you thank you very much Tim great question is
and something that I also am really interested in I thinkactually um Tim
we probably talked about that in in the podcast that we did as well because that’s a that that’s something I’m wrestling with in all this as well so thanks for uh uh
let’s go to Justin and then uh stina is that how you say your name uh yeah
so go ahead Justin
thanks thanks Brandon um so
Tim maybe 15 or 20 years ago I walked into this little new age bookstore in Calgary where I lived at the time and I asked the guy
what’s what’s really hot right now
like what uh what what are the
what’s some new ideas
what is a book that people are talking about
and he pointed me to this little book tiny little book uh I don’t remember the name of it but the invitation was to
imagine that you’re kind of like walking around in a dream
you could read this book in like an hour
and um that was my first encounter with you
nd based on what you’ve said there it is based on what you’ve said today I imagine that
that was the old you
that uh that you you know
some of the changes that you’ve spoken about
soum um
there’s just been so much I I would share
just a couple um uh references to space
and then I Iwant to try to maybe do a philosophical quibble with what you’re talking about that I’m probably not qualified to do
but um
The Telepathy Tapes Podcast about Autism Kids
I’ve been listening to the telepathy tapes lately and um there’s this podcast called the telepathy tapes it’s about kids with autism and how they seem to demonstrate this incredible capacity for telepathy
and um it talks about how a bunch of the kids uh from all over the world go to this place in the imaginal realm
I guess called the hill um where they’re able to communicate with each other and talk to each other
I don’t know if this is true haven’t looked into it enough but it’s just seems so interesting and it would kind of suggest what you mentioned earlier that
this imaginal realm doesn’t exist in space
and maybe time the way that we imagine it or that that we think of our our normal world and that also reminded me of um some of uh Kurt Leland’s work on um themulti-dimensional human where he Maps out like in great detail all these different bodies the subtle body and andmental body and budic body and causal body and how each of them go into thesedifferent Realms and there’s it’s like a whole map of all this different space and he talks about one of the skills youneed to to develop to like navigate all this territory is an understanding ofspace in this realm which is not like distant space it’s like a psychological space
so I found that very interesting
I don’t you know it’s it’s
it’s well beyond my personal experience but I find it interesting to read about and think about , if there’s actually people that have the ability to um kind of move through these spaces with that level of skill
but I was trying to hey JustinI I I by the
by the pause I had a feeling you were going to move on to the quibble
yes shall we shall we shall Ijust comment on what you’ve already said and then we’ll do the quibble
My Lucid Living Book Is Great But Wrong
yeah because what you said was really interesting first of all yes Lucid living um oh God I’m so proud of that book
it’s just such a shame it’s wrong
I I think what I did was that and through work I managed to distill down the essential message I I
Perennial Philosophy is Wrong? Experiencing “It” in 1 Hour, per Huxley
Most of my books are on what you would call a perennial philosophy approach to spiritual Traditions
drawing out their similarities very much in the spirit of of um alus Huxley and all the people that came after him
and then I really distilled it down to
this is it, and you can get it in an hour, and you can experience it.
And it worked and people really did get it and it took youinto that way of seeing things and it was lovely uh and then gradually uh itbegan to dawn on me that it wasn’t good enough
and it was wrong
and that’s where this new one’s come
so it’s been a radical
it’s been quite a of okay uh not just that one but all of the books
My Books Were Perennial and Good — But Wrong
[the Egodeath theory lately is a bit like that: Marketing It too much as a 1-dimensional over-Focus on Eternalism/ no-free-will, Only; Short-Changes the Balanced Component of Retaining Isaac, Everyday Egoic Thinking/ Shape of Experience incl. during peak mystic window: embrace and include – hard but i have to work hard to RE-ARTICULATE the Egodeath theory & its “Benefits”; What Diff?]
I think they’re good books but they they they articulate and I think what happened was
“I articulated it so well for myself that I could finally see what was wrong with it”
I articulated it so well for myself that I could finally see what was wrong with it
and because a lot of things that we don’t see what’s wrong with something it’s because it’s all a bit mystical
Against the Dogma Cliche that “Transcendent Knowledge is beyond words” [never held by the Egodeath theory]
and a bit oo so just I don’t understand it but that’s becauseI’m not good enough for I don’t understand it because it’s just beyond words
or you know all of that fudge
so you never actually get the chance to disagree with it, because it’s you can’t hold it
so I did get it
and then so that’s that then the
the kids who finally enough I just came across for the first time a couple of days ago haven’t looked into at all
but it gives me a chance to throw out
I’m throwing out a lot of Big Ideas very quickly
but I’m going to do it anyway , what the hell
I think we need to understand and
the psyche as a sense I think
the system has developed senses with which it reads the universe
systems are all in relationship to the universe
Freke STILL Sounds Like Usual “Unity Oneness Nondual Experience” Tripe of Beginner Level
they all read the universe
chemical systems read the universe and respond with you know with an explosion
all that sort ofstuff
relationality is the fundamental nature of the universe
everything is that one thing in relationship to itself as everything else
and we read we’ve learned
we’ve evolved to see, to read light
we’ve evolved to you know respond to Airwaves, to listen
and I think this
this other sigh sensing which is how we can read the hard disk of the universe
we can read the information
and so one of the things that I never asked and I never hear anyone ask is well
Experiencing Oneness[TM]
if you’re experiencing let’s say the Oneness of everything how do you experience that
CU
you can’t see it or touch it
so how do you experience that
or if you experience all of these things anything in spirituality a vision, how are you seeing a vision, and what is it you’re seeing
it’s like we just it’s like well I think
it’s a sense
so when you’re reflecting on your own processing you’re sensing yourself
but I don’t think it’s just I don’t think it because it’s an ecology it’s not just yourself
that’s the easiest thing to sense and bit like the physical senses developed first with closeup touch and then basic sight and then you know and then it evolves
I think
the psyche is is developing as a sense
and what I see is that
some people are really good at doing
you know I’m
I seem to be better than most people for some reason
since I was a kid of of sensing that thing I call God
I I just can find it and not all the time but I can
and I’ve learned how to do it better
some people can’t do that so easily
I can find the Oneness
I don’t experience
I Can Tune into Dead People [= “evolve”?]
I can kind of tune into people who’ve passed on
but not like people
some people I know they can really do it
now there’s a lot of charlatans a lot so that makes it all very difficult
there’s a lot of scientific charlatans too mind you
there’s charlatans everywhere
and then so you get I love this little thumb that keeps coming out the screen the the uh is that so whatI’m suggesting it’s a sense so they are connecting but I I suspect we all are I suspect you are with me right now and if we really paid attention and focused on eachother which is one of the things I do with people online I gather people all around the world and we pay attention to each other and you can really go oh my God I’m actually connecting with you but not physically we’re on the other sideof the world you’re connecting and the when you said about it’s it’s space you
can create imaginal space but you’re connected with everyone who you have ayou in your life they could be on the other side of the world but you’re connected with them just like every ideayou have is connected with another idea that resonates with it everything is it’s connected through meaning anarrative in in the psyche and I think it’s perfectly possible that these kids are doing that but I also think we alldo it a bit and
then some people are really good and I think you know when when we
remember we are sensing the past but like everything else we can sense it badly and we have to understandit and we get it wrong and and some some of us you know I’m I I’m not not got a great memory canfind it sometimes but you know if you give me a clue I can home in on it and oh that I remember but there’s somepeople there’s 65 of them alive at the moment I believe who havehypoa who can remember everything literally everything so yousaid what did in 1975 in the morning what did you have for breakfast oh yes I had poached eggs and then I read thepaper the paper said you know it’s like and they’re right they can remember everything they’re that good to me atsensing the past they can do that I can do it a bitand I think the same with these psychic abilities all the rest of it or walking into a place and just going oh I’m sensing this place well not I’m not sensing it with my biological senses I’m sensing it and going this this place feels amazing or this place feels dark or there’s something wrong here or all of those things
I think we should take them seriously because the psyche is a sense and that’s what those kids are doing
quibble I so
all that resonates a lot with me the the so where I want to quibble is I was trying to parse out because I think I think
I heard the word emergent like seven or eight times in the first you know minute or two of thisdiscussion and I was like okay are we referring to emergence in like the technical “philosophy of mind” sense of like strong emergence of that we’re saying that
physics is the base layer of reality
no I’m not you’re not saying that
no I’m using it as a much more colloquial sense
okay so a lot the way that it’s that
that other sense of has become very popular relatively recently
really what I mean by it is much more like something new’s emerged
that’s all I mean I mean
something new has happened which couldn’t have happened without the thing that happened before it and and sometimes so
it’s the evolutionary process and i
In The evolutionary process there are moments of significant novelty in which a whole new thing is happening
so you know life started you know where did it start like hard to say isn’t it but it did and or whatever it is so that’s all I mean by it
I don’t mean strong emergence, weak emergence, anything like that
I and
I’m certainly not reductionist; the complete opposite.
so so there’s a whole this is a trouble language
A whole group of people who want to use the idea of emergence to shore up reductionism.
I want to use the idea of emergence to completely over o object to e reductionism
and to go what I’m saying is
there is more information in the universe now than there was before.
it cannot be reduced to the state before
the higher levels cannot be reduced absolutely not because they are more emergent they’re more thanthat’s how I’m using the word and and I I know the difficulty and I’m glad you brought it out yeah I I I I myexperience is I’m having trouble making sense of what you’re saying then because as I heard you talk it became more andmore it seemed more and more like that was what you were saying and I
I hope I haven’t confused you
just what do you think I’m saying
well it just seemed
it seemed like you were saying that mind did not exist at the beginning of the universe
yeah no it’s all emerged
yeah I think I’m saying
everything with any qualities whatsoever has emerged in one process of differentiation
EmergingTM, EvolvingTM, Levels of EmergenceTM
[🤨👎 empty, meaningless, Marketing jargon, like possibilismTM, eternalismTM, the Egodeath theoryTM]
and that in that process we can talk about new things emerging
you could say evolving if you prefer just evolve move the word
what’s your ontology then what is the base lay of reality in in your view
that’s that’s what I’m trying to understand
yeah okay what I think we need to grasp is that
the further back the further to more foundational levels we go those levels we need to understand with maths and my guess is that
the Primal levels of emergence or Evolution or whatever we want to call that are mathematical
they’re what we study with maths and
it goes right the way back to the fundamental
and here I’m a bit you know it’s a bit like DSM or cabala or gnosticism or pythagoreanism
which goes oh look these are fundamental relationships that we study with maths
they’re archetypes and they will get fleshed out as all these other qualities that come out
which is why you know the world is full of maths
Fake Math Affectation, like 4D Spacetime Mysticism Sold as psychedelic eternalism — whatever that means 🤷♂️ <– probably same thing as Quantum Mysticism (didn’t Parmenides fabricate that myth?)
Sacred Geometry
and why the you know what’s the word um sacred geometry
and and the fact that
this is the Fibonacci sequence and because mathematics is the beginning the first level that’s going to lead to well currently it would be like the quantum level where you’re still not in time
you’re still not in you
Emergent 4D Spacetime
time is going to emerge, space is going to emerge from a mathematical level
but the mathematical level
if you go back and back and back
the simplest one is uh the bit this or that Duality, yin and yang
so you’ve what’s before that well
nothing’s before that
FormlessTM
but what that the yin and yang is is the relationship of something which is formless, so that would be in spiritual terms it would be nonu [nondual?]
or but so
when I say the one when I said earlier I just mean
OneTM, in RelationshipTM as Two(TM??)
one, not one of one of anything just one
it’s one so
it starts with one but one is in relationship as two
and that’s going to give rise to all of this mathematical stuff and then actually the fact that that
The Universe EmergesTM from OneTM – Too Complex for You to Understand, Words Cannot Express It [joke]
the universe is going to emerge from that
I won’t go into that that’s too complex the but that so so
my basic ontology
would be there’s something
there is something which exists but is undifferentiated
what is it what’s nothing what qualities does it have
it doesn’t have any qualities and if you look around you now and you have that intuition if you can sense the Oneness of the universe
Freke Continues Making ‘Oneness Unity Nonduality’ the Reference for Religious Experience
[DESPITE HIMSELF HE’S STILL CENTERING FOCUS ON THE “ONENESS UNITY” BEGINNER MODEL OF ALTERED STATE EXPERIENCE]
the fact that it is a universe if you do that now and you go yeah but
what is the Oneness
what
Oneness Makes My Thoughts [= controls my personal control system? could we be actually getting somewhere relevant, here? or is this just an accident like infinite monkeys typing?]
what’s the thing that makes the floor and the air and my arms and my thoughts and everything one
well just that it exists
being so you could say
OnenessTM of BeingTM (But there’s no quality to it) [i agree: a low-quality utterance, Tim]
there’s a Oneness of being
but there’s nothing I mean
there’s no quality to it
it’s kind of what the I think the
this was what the Buddhist mean when they the
The IsnessTM of Things: An Isness Which Everything Shares, and “It” is developed from “that” [??? What Is It?, asks Watts, & me]
Zen Buddhists talk about the isness of things
it’s like there’s there’s an isness which everything shares
and
it’s developed from that
and
it’s also why I think
Meditation [not Psychedelics]
if you’ve had this experience particularly in meditation
I get this where if you really focus on the ground it’s empty it’s void
it’s like that
it is nothing because it has no qualities
and
that’s where it’s
that’s the whole again the Buddhist thing of the being
yeah
the emptinessthe void
but that void is really has become everything
Ken Wilber Yada Vibes: Big Framework, No Engine [-cm]
it’s that formless has evolved into every form
so if you
if you if you shift your attention from The Emptiness to the fullness it’s like it’s all one thing and I’m arising
it’s a the the one thing is as Tim is meeting the one thing as Justin and
that that’s a big shift in how you see yourself because you’re suddenly in real intimate connection with everything
Giveaway Word “Connection” Reveals That this is the “Unity” Paradigm [like Ken Wilber = the “Advaita Meditation Huckster” Paradigm, at Core]
you’re not just this little bubble of skin bag as Alan Watts used to say
you’re you’re you’re
everything is this one thing turning into everything and meeting itself in, but but as you;
not it’s not like it’s a thing
The Ego Tunnel; Philosophy and the Mind Sciences Journal (Thomas Metzinger)
I used to have this kind of more of an image that it was like looking through youlike you were a tunnel and it was behind
Non-Branching, Snake-Shaped Worldline Frozen in 4D Spacetime Block Mysticism [FDML]
but
I don’t think that.
I think it’s as you you know
it’s Arisen as Justin and there’s Justin he’s on the Leading Edge of the [ __ emergent? evolving?] Universe
this is 13.8 billion years to get to Justin
and he’s right you know it’s like wow
that level of richness that
LevelsTM, Man [compare: in psychedelic eternalismTM, you end up {rider on donkey on path}; surface level of experience = possibilism-thinking; underlying real level = eternalism-reality; end up w/ qualified possibilism-thinking above eternalism actuality]
we exist on on these different levels
fantastic thanks for the verification
but it is I know
it is pretty radical because the the the Mythic
The Mythic Thing Has Been Around a Long Time – u dont say? 🤯
the Mythic thing has been around for a very very very very very long time so the
The intuition has been
there must be a something
but to get to the point where we go
it’s not like that you have to think in radically different ways so to say you know but what did the one
The OneTM Became the Two
why did the one become the two
it’s a bit like going
does fall like chocolate?
it’s like what there’s a he
there a crazy question
there’s a completely wrong question, because at this level there isn’t any of that
but it will become all of that , which is why we’re here looking back at it
there we go so
great questions yeah
are was that uh anything else Justin are you all set
uh all set I’ll post a couple thoughts in the chat but
please do
great thanks J really great comments let’s go to s tina [?] who’s been most patiently waiting uh and then um
it’s already 1:30 on the Eastern Seaboard um so uh we can start to draw to a close a little bit after that
but if anyone does have any questions still that they’d like to ask if
just go ahead and put up your hand and uh maybe we’ll have some closing thoughts briefly with you and me Tim uh and then call it a day but go aheadstina yeah thank you um I’m in Sweden so it’s half past eight11 s here and uh this book set me off to follow you Tim uh itwas really an important book for starting a process that has been going on for over 20 yearsnow um and I’m working with a collective H and
rupert sheldrake morphic Fields
I’m also very inspired by rupert sheldrick his morphic Fields
so you can say that I’m actually taking the morphic field as a first person perspective
so it’s about we were talking about the group that
we can sense each other what we are together
and what I do is that I sense what I call the Embrace of the group so it’s or the morphic field
so it’s not the individuals it’s the collective
And that is amazing what we can do
so um
you can also sense into the Embrace of humanity Planet universe
so these I mean we can [Ken?] Wilber it will be holl um [holog?]
they are realities from when when we work with them and we
they’re very different and we sense them
I have E. S. P. of the Universe, So Have a Spirituality that’s Grounded in This Reality
and for me that is much more that’s really important because it’s it’s a spirituality that is grounded in this reality
so I don’t have this the Soul byitself in another way but I really see that with us taking those perspectives we are changing what we belong
what we already belong to all this physical biological cultural levels
um so I resonate with with a lot of what you say but
I have a more of an integrated view of these of the at the spiritual subtle pure awareness levels are actually aspects of the whole reality and not
is there is a Oneness
but
There Is Many Onenesses
there is also many Oneness
is all the way if you can um
You can call any hon [?] or morphic field a what experiences it as a Oneness
and it’s also people get it
and um they are there and they are real
so just but so so
I love that I mean I mean I I
I probably have come to see things in a different way now
I don’t think there is any such thing as pure awareness
I think that’s just doesn’t exist
and and I think that was just a way of seeing things that I passed through um but I do think uh I’mI’m certainly seeing everything is integrated
everything you know when I talk about
The Soul Is Part of the OneTM ProcessTM BecomingTM [not wrong, but not very helpful]
the soul doesn’t go off anywhere; it’s all part of the one process becoming it’s just another level of the same process of becoming
and and it and it and
It’s Origined from It, So, Process 😑<-🤨
the biological level is inherent in it [oneness?] because it’s origined from it and and the physical level
and
it’s one thing
it’s all one process
but the stuff that I I want to really focus in on um stina is
the practice you talking about because they sound quite similar to things I’ve been exploring for whatever it is 25years
which is because what
Freke Lexicon: The Psyche Senses, Tune In
to use the language I’ve been developing
I would say
you’re sensing that’s using
that’s what the psyche does
it senses
and you can tune in
so
one of the things which I do is
We Talk Philosophy on Sundays, to EvolveTM and EmergeTM, to E.S.P.-Sense Each Other & Our Established Collective Group (and call that “the divine super-soul”)
I get together every Sunday night (not tomorrow actually but) every other Sunday night with a group of people from all over the world, a small group of people and we either talk philosophy like we’ve done today
or we do these practices which involve things like you’re describing which involve being able to um sense each other and the collective that we form
and then very much what I’m suggesting with um what
we experience as the Divine
let’s say or the
the Super Soul is that Collective
um but in a in a
in a very established and deep way, not like the collective that we’ve formed here today
but like a collective that’s been forming for some time now and which is well established
and we can touch into to it and move away from it and come back to it so in that way I reallyresonate a lot with with what you’re exploring and and like I said the idea of the morphic fields is when I’m
talking about the hard disk of the universe or positivity system that’s very much um that’s Rupert likes thefield metaphor
I don’t mind the field metaphor but I don’t necessarily think we need it because it’s not spatial
um Ithink it’s the the thing it’s it’s
it’s closer to what David Bohm [hidden variables] called the implicate and the explicate
you know that
there something behind
[ie underlying level hidden under the hood]
like now when I’m looking at the screen, it’s like there’s something behind this which is making this happen
and I think
science has been very much about exploring what it is behind this and understanding it
which is why we can now do amazing things
we understand what’s behind it
and then
spirituality is the same but on the level of the psyche
you know you get to see the The Superficial levels of the —
or the individual levels let call them rather than superficial
relatively easily
but even seeing yourself is hard isn’t it
just to see your own
you know I’m 65 and I’m seeing new things about myself all the time probably now more than ever
so
it’s not easy to even sense your own processing
but you can
and then you can also widen it out
like you’re suggesting we can do it connect with each other, connect with the
the way in which we form a group these are really important things to do I think and for me is the really important thing is the planetary
I think that if you Humanity are going to survive on this planet we need to become
we know intellectually I mean
know all this that we are living on around planet and the system but to really sense it
to sense a deep belonging to the planet
I think that’s that’s so crucial right now
yeah uh so for me that is the emergent level
um yeah
Sense the planetary awareness
the planetary awareness
yeah I mean I I just want say much I love that but
I also want to just reiterate just in case anyone has misunderstood me and I’ve misled anyone when I talk about the level of the imagin [imaginal?]
I it’s not going off anywhere
it’s absolutely arising and it’s
it’s no more than you’re talking to me now
but
the fact that we’re having a conversation in the psyche
We Converse in the Psyche — and Physical & Biological TOO! 🤯👍
really that’s where it’s all happening
doesn’t mean that we’re not physical or biological; we are and and and that
there’s a whole domain which is of that level
doesn’t mean it’s not connected to an influencing all the time
and that
when I talk about the super system what we experience as God it isn’t gone off anywhere I think it’s interacting with this all the time
I think
When We Talk Together, God-Oneness Is All Levels Interacting
the whole thing is interacting
all these levels are interacting
that’s the key
of course
and and
that’s what we and that’s why we need to focus on those things
yeah thank you yeah beautiful
Freke Book The Laughing Jesus
thanks de thanks for reminding me of the Laughing Jesus that’s a long time ago beautiful yeah important book for me at the time
too just in the interest of time so maybe we go to Joe just because he hasn’t asked a question yet
and then if you’ve got a quick question we can go to you
and then we can uh start to come to a close
so go ahead Joe
I Only Talk to Our Sunday ICU Collective
yeah I didn’t actually actually I have questions but I’m not gonna ask them because
I actually attend the ICU meetings every Sunday and I get to ask those questions
but uh a a
Experiential Retreat at SkyMeadow
a large part ofwhat made this happen was the uh attempt to bring an experiential retreat to SkyMeadow so I just wanted to sort of uh
put out a Mini commercial that is stillin the planning it is still my intention to do so and uh uh
Do Philosophy in the Experiential Realm
Tim is very much taking this philosophy into the experiential realm
and uh so that’s whatwe hope to bring to Sky meadow
so back to Nish with a I’m sure a really great question
yeah I’ll just say I’ll just on that point um t
hanks yeah
we’d love to get Tim out here at the sky Meadow sometime
and as you said Joe we’re kind of we’re still kind of planning see how that could happen
we’re also thinking of
I think this is still on the works of doing another one of these I believe in March
so um I’ll have more information on that
but uh yeah
Sky Meadow, various thinkers communities
we’re just really trying uh at Sky Meadow to weave into all these various different um thinkers communities
TheAvenues – Community?
and and uh you know uh TheAvenues where this kind of thought is happening
and um yeah come together and speaking of uh of um what was the word that was used
to to go collectives or uh communities
yeah anyway we’re trying to build that out in a rich way so um yeah
hopefully we can get Tim from across the pond at some point
I I it it probably might be helpful just for folks to understand is that um
most of the focus for most of my life has been on experiential
the
the you know
recently I’ve given myself over the last 10 years
but even then you know I
I call myself a philosopher
but you know I think really I’m a big love junkie
I just want us to come in into that beautiful beautiful communion with each other and which you experiences this enormous love
because that’s the point of all the philosophy
VAGUE, “love is the point of Philosophy” – Love of Transcendent Knowledge, I should hope [cm]
for me that it supports that and helps us understand why that’s so important so I I I I
The stuff we do experientially together is the heart and soul of it
you know that’s
the that’s hugely important
Yeah all right go ahead again Nish andthen we’ll uh we’ll come to a close thank you I’ll ask the question but if it’s going to take too long we can leaveit for another day um
if you’re talking about the imaginal realm as something that is that emerges and if the imaginal realm is the key to understanding um for example near-death experiences or or or rebirth
and so on
/”Emer
Is “Emergence” a Magic Token Word in Place of Comprehension?
does that mean that these after death or afterlife experiences are only accessible to sentient beings who have reached a certain level of emergence as opposed to being a default for everybody?
yeah great question um
my own guess
all of this is my own guess
really you know all of it’s like
what’s the most plausible thing that I can arrive at given what I’ve experienced?
and what I know would be that certainly
all human beings are well established now in the psyche
[might be context: lowest = body, mid-level= psyche/mind; highest is Spirit –cm]
and that’s probably been the case for a long time
beyond that I I I’m not sure but um
that would be my intuition
I think it’s kind of something I think the Ithink
Key Dogma/ Jargon: “Evolution” (magic word)
the process of evolution has just moved on to a new level like it did with life from matter
say a whole new level and that
“Cycle of Rebirth”
the the cycle of you know like rebirth and all that
it’s just
the latest way of evolving because the biological level is fantastic moved really relatively fast because of life and death
because if you got death you keep getting you know reproduction you get rid of all the old ones and you fill it with lots of new ones
it’s a fantastic way to evolve species and that’s what’s happened
but it’s a terrible way to evolve individuals because they just keep dying
and I think what’s happened is that
as we’ve evolved it’s now about the individual
the the
it’s the indivindidual that’s evolving
and that’s why the it’s worked out a way like it worked out a way to how to be alive
Main Theme: Do Not Lose the Individual (or devmt of the indiv.) During Egodeath Enlightenment
it’s worked out a way how to not lose the individual
and let the individual keep moving
that would be my guess
and that I I would guess that’s true of what
anyone who’s developed that has that level of individuality
which I think is certainly everyone I’ve ever met so be my my my guess
thank you very much Tim thank you it’s been a real Delight
been some fantastic questions guys
it’s been so lovely I can see you all on the screen it’s
it’s like being in the room with you which is just great
yeah these have been really amazing questions um
this was delightful thank you everyone for contributing your your ideas and your questions
this is um just what I thought what I hoped it would be
and just a couple of final thoughts then
well one I’ll just say for myself and for you know
what these things are
again to mention Sky Meadow again
I just love when I encounter a new thinker who is engaging with stuff I’m engaging in
but also maybe going in different directions proposing ideas I never thought of
presenting models in a different way than I’d organized them
where I’ve found organized before
and so that to me is really stimulating and generative
and uh yeah
Tim has been one of those thinkers and so there’s so much that this brings up for me that raises a whole new set of questions
uh you know some of which have even been proposed in here
and uh
I’m still wrestling Tim with your work and your ideas
but I think that that’s part of what’s so fun about this is seeing these things from A New Perspective
and hopefully we can you know again bring these multiple ideas and perspectives together and try to have a more flourishing Community conversation that’s kind of tackling uh these ideas from these different angles and having that kind of uh intellectual foment thatis is so rich
so that’s a big part of the mission of Sky meadow
and I think that
the work that Tim is doing is directly related to that
so
thank you Tim for again just the time for your work
Tim’s Podbook
um one last thing I definitely do want to just have you speak to briefly is your current work uh is the Podbook
say a little bit about that um and what you’re up to and uh yeah yeah
thank you Brendan for making this happen
and Joe who who was also very involved in making this happen
um uh if uh hopefully we’ll we’ll get the chance to do it again we can go deeper we can spread out into different areas I think
having these conversations with people who are moved to in this direction is is really important so it’s been hanging out with you uh
if you um want to do more of this with me before we we get together again through BrendanI like I said
I do this every Sunday so if you go to my website timfreke.com
you can come along to the ICU and pop in of a Sundayevening it’s the evening here so it’s uh earlier in America like it’s evening nowfor me um and we have people literally from all over the world
as
but it’s a small small enough group that we can really connect like this
and and and again like you were saying stina you know it
people have formed into a collective and it astonishes me that when
we sit and meditate at the beginning
it’s just like so it’s so strong it just wow how what’s going on here something’s happening so there’s that the other thing which um I would love you to engage with if you are interested is um that
Tim Freke Video Podbook on YouTube, His Latest 8 Years’ Work/ Idea Development
I have this podbook coming out it will be released as video on YouTube
it will be free I’m going to give it away it’s been eight years’ work just about every day
and um I just want to get it out there
I’m recording it literally yesterday, the day before
and
I hope it will come out um in February uh it’s going to be soon so if you’re interested in that please
sign up to my newsletter on my uh website
or my
uh that’s the best way
[I] CU you’ll definitely get about hear about it then
but also you can
subscribe on YouTube or is will be available as an audio podcast as well but it will be video really
uh so that’s what I’m up to andum it’s the the attraction for me is
I can take you I can take you through the ideas like I did today
but I can take it through okay
get this idea
get this idea
get this idea
get this idea
and my aim is that I’m Loos it enough that you can then judge it for yourself you’ve got it
you go
okay I see what he say saying
what do I think of that
and
how does that relate to my experience
so I’m working as hard as I can to get it across with the same with with that Lucidity
awesome yeah and I’m really looking forward to that because as you’ve said you have changed and evolved in your own thinking on on these things
and I both really respect that when people can be like yeah
“I did this whole thing, but now actually I think that’s all wrong”; learning and updating
yeah I did this whole thing but now actually I think that’s all wrong
like that shows learning and updating and it’s uh uh commendable
uh H
but yeah so
Latest Update Patch to Tim Freke’s OS
I’m looking forward to the most recent um uh you know update patch to Tim freaks uh operating system
funny enough Brendan I’ve got a video coming out probably I think next Friday
it’ll be in my newsletter and on YouTube
having a conversation with somebody who has known me for a very long time going through what the hell happened
how did you change your mind
like what was the journey that has ended up here
so yeah well I’m really looking forward to yeah seeing where you’re at with all this and going through that and would love to have you on the menam modern podcast[?] to talk about that when that comes out
but all right well why don’t we call this
there
this is amazing
thanks again Tim so much uh
again thanks Joe thank youfor uh everyone for all of your wonderful questions
and and what you brought into this and uh
stay tuned to the you know to the general space
because I’ll also post things in terms of this recording and uh
our follow-up conversation that will be happening in March
and other things happening so um yeah looking forward to all the things thank you so much Godspeed take care everyone till next time
English (auto-generated) All From Brendan Graham Dempsey
Psychedelic experiences typically involve intense temporary alterations in perception, and commonly lead to radical and permanent transformations in belief.
The LSD experience was described by Watts (1, p.44) as: “revelations of the secret workings of the brain, of the associative and patterning processes, the ordering systems which carry out all our sensing and thinking”,
similarly Grof (2, p.38) described the LSD experience as: “complex revelatory insights into the nature of existence…typically accompanied by a sense of certainty that this knowledge is ultimately more relevant and “real” than the perceptions and beliefs we share in everyday life.”
In this essay I will be examining the themes that are contained in descriptions of psychedelic tripping such as these.
I will present a generalised phenomenological model which relates psychedelic experience to the brain’s associative and patterning process, by examining the most standard and prominent features of such experiences and inferring general principles from them.
These standard features of tripping are the alterations in visual perception, and the strong tendency for transformation/reformation of core belief structures (‘life-changing’ experiences) during the course of psychedelic exploration.
My aim is to examine these features of psychedelic phenomenology
(that is, the subjective mental content of psychedelic trip experiences)
for the purposes of highlighting the underlying alterations in cognitive processing that are responsible for the psychedelic effect, and thereby to capture the original insight behind the label ‘psychedelic’ (or ‘mind-revealing’).
—
A major theme in what follows is the phenomenological comparison of the ordinary (non-intoxicated) state of consciousness with the non-ordinary psychedelic state of consciousness, for the purposes of highlighting the specific peculiarities of the latter.
During a psychedelic trip session, the mind (or at least, certain major aspects of the mind) becomes explicitly manifested such that it is made available for conscious inspection; by implication then, the mind is not manifested in ordinary, sober consciousness.
The question arises, therefore, of what exactly is meant by the ‘mind’ in this specific context, and what it means to say that the mind becomes temporarily ‘manifested’ in the psychedelic state of consciousness;
what exactly is the thing that can be clearly perceived during intense psychedelic tripping, which is hidden during ordinary experience.
In what follows I will offer a substantive answer to this question.
—
This essay is intended as a basic conceptual model of psychedelic experiencing, using the general approach of phenomenology (the study of conscious appearances).
It should be interpreted first and foremost as an approximation for the phenomenological content of experience, any metaphysical assertions are secondary to this main aim.
There are a few books dealing explicitly with the phenomenology of drug-induced altered states, these include Huxley’s (3) ‘Doors of perception’ and Shanon’s (4) ‘Antipodes of the Mind’.
Also, the literature in psychiatric phenomenology provides some useful concepts which can be applied to the drug-induced experiences, especially the writing of Sass (5 & 6) and Stanghellini (7).
Analogy and the description of experience
written by Author, for markup by Cybermonk
Analogy is a very useful tool for understanding the cognitive dynamics of psychedelic tripping; likening mental phenomena to physical situations and occurrences elucidates the structure of the perceptual alteration.
I will now briefly run through several of the most pertinent analogies and explain how they can be applied to psychedelic altered-state phenomenology.
Plato’s (8) famous ‘cave allegory’ likens ordinary perception to staring at shadows on the back wall of a cave; a perspective that most people are fully immersed in most of the time.
It is only the philosopher who is privileged to get a glimpse of reality from the higher-dimensional perspective, when he turns his head around to see the light at the mouth of the cave and discovers that the shadows are actually flat lower-dimensional projections of a deeper, hidden actual reality.
Plato’s suggestion is that a person who had never seen beyond the shadows would come to believe that the mere shadows constitute actual reality itself (as opposed to a lower-dimensional projection of actual reality), the altered perspective experienced by the philosopher presents a radical challenge to that belief.
—
In a similar vein, ordinary perception can be likened to to staring at reflections in the surface of a perfectly still pool of water (the mind) where the surface of the pool is invisible.
The reflections remain perfectly solid and convincing/realistic so long as the surface of the water/mind is undisturbed, the psychedelic trip-effect is like causing a splash in the water so that the surface is distorted and becomes visible;
the reflections then ripple, undulate and fragment, and reveal themselves to be mere reflections as opposed to being the actual things that they reflect.
Albert Hoffman (9), the discoverer of LSD, described how during his bicycle ride home after his first deliberate LSD self-administration: “Everything in my field of vision wavered and was distorted as if seen in a curved mirror”.
The same as in Plato’s example, a person who had only ever seen the reflections, and who had never experienced the surface-manifesting psychedelic ‘splash’ effect, would believe in the concrete reality of the reflections, and in the illusion of direct perceptual access to concrete reality.
—
Jackson (10) has written about the psychological effect of radically new experience; he constructs a thought-experiment involving a character ‘Fred’ who possesses the ability to perceive one additional colour (a subdivision of red) that nobody else can see.
This serves as an analogy for psychedelic tripping, because the discovery of the psychedelic perspective provides new information that is not available in the ordinary state of consciousness.
Jackson suggests that Fred would be unable to communicate his experience to anyone who had not seen the extra colour; in much the same way, a tripper cannot communicate meaningfully about his psychedelic experiences to someone who had never had the experience.
Verbal trip reports cannot fully convey what it is like to trip, to truly know the experience a person has to have it themselves.
It could be argued from a behaviouristic point of view that what one learns on discovering psychedelic tripping is simply an ability to recall and describe the experiences, a person who had never had the experience, will be unable to recall and describe it.
Hoffman (11) has similarly likened the discovery of psychedelic tripping to an adolescent’s discovery of the experience of sexual climax.
—
Whether psychedelics cleanse the doors of perception or ripple the surface of consciousness, the value of these analogies lies in the overall picture they provide of how the psychedelic effect works to reveal the operational structures of the mind.
Analogies such as these serve to model and reflect the two core effects of psychedelic tripping; the temporary alteration in perception, and the permanent transformation of belief structures.
From analogy to cognitive phenomenology
written by Author, for markup by Cybermonk
The various structural analogies can be translated into the language of philosophy of mind.
According to Marr’s (12) theory of visual perception, the 2-dimensional array of coloured light information on the surface of the eyes is translated by the mind into a complex, multi-levelled mental representation of the 3-dimensional physical environment.
Our external environment is illuminated by light which is reflected off of the surfaces of physical objects, some of the reflected light hits the surface of our eyes, and this 2-dimensional pattern of light of the surface of the eyes is processed and translated into a 3-dimensional mental image of the surrounding environment.
Fodor (13) makes a similar claim in his theory on mental modularity, according to which the brain contains dedicated modules for processing the information that is received as input from the body’s sensory organs; the output of these modules is the detailed mental image of the physical environment.
It is the mental image which is directly revealed to consciousness, so our ordinary conscious perception is inherently representational, we perceive 3-dimensional physical reality indirectly via mental symbols.
Hoffman (14) uses the terms ‘explicit representationalism’ and ‘dissociated cognition’ to describe the psychedelic perceptual/cognitive mode;
perception is representational at all times, but in the ordinary perceptual modality the mental representations behave so predictably and consistently (- they are so tangibly realistic) that they are tacitly conflated (or associated) with the mind-independent realities that they represent.
—
Hoffman (14) suggests that during a psychedelic trip the mind adopts the metaperceptive point of view, from this vantage point the distinction between the subjective mental representations and objective physical reality is explicitly revealed to the mind;
physical objects look less solid and realistic during a trip, they cease to appear as mind-independent objective entities and take on a cartoon-like character.
A psychedelic trip is induced by altering the brain’s endogenous chemistry via externally introduced chemicals, yet the altered visual effects are perceived as actual qualities of external objects (along with their shape, colour etc.).
Huxley (15, p.12) conveyed this idea in his description of his first mescaline trip, by describing how his trousers appeared to him in his altered state as follows:
“Those folds in the trousers-what a labyrinth of endlessly significant complexity! And the texture of the grey flannel-how rich, how deeply, mysteriously sumptuous!. . . the folds of my grey flannels were charged with ‘is-ness’.”
Note how Huxley directly attributes these fantastic qualities to his actual trousers, and not to his own perception of his trousers.
—
The physical surfaces of solid objects are commonly observed to flow, undulate and ripple like the surface of a liquid when psychedelic chemicals are introduced into the brain;
it follows logically from this that what the mind normally holds to be external, mind-independent concrete existence, is actually a deceptively detailed mental appearance.
There is no alternative way to account for the observation that an alteration of brain chemistry causes alterations in external reality other than by postulating that what we refer to as ‘external reality’ is in fact internal/mental in origin;
psychedelic visual alterations combined with basic reasoning conclusively demonstrate the principle of representationalism.
During a psychedelic trip, each person can observe for themselves that an alteration of internal neurochemistry results in a tangible alteration in the perceptual qualities of the external world, this naturally leads an inquiring mind to question the origin of perceptual phenomena, and the metaphysical status of the subject/object distinction.
This is why the temporary perceptual alteration can result in a permanent transformation of the mind’s conceptual framework; the psychedelic effect challenges our most basic assumptions about the nature of perception.
—
The phenomenologist Husserl (16) held that the ordinary (natural, habitual) manner in which the mind perceives reality is shaped by implicit background assumptions that give a coherent structure to our experience
(this idea is much in line with the general Kantian philosophical framework),
when these assumptions are made explicit and bracketed off by a process of private philosophical reflection which he called the phenomenologicalepoche, the mind’s ‘sphere of ownness’ is revealed, the raw subjective datastream prior to the mind’s conceptualising activity.
The psychiatrist Depraz (17) has likened Husserl’s phenomenological epoche to the process of psychotic mental dis-integration in schizophrenic patients,
suggesting that such experiences constitute a “phenomenological exploration of consciousness”, and that schizophrenia consists essentially in an “enhanced aptitude to perform the epoche”.
Freud (18, p.90) anticipated the comparison of psychosis and mind-manifestation when he compared the mind to a crystal, and used this comparison to suggest that observation of psychotic/schizoid mental processes can shed light on the structure of the sane mind.
According to Freud’s analogy a whole, undamaged crystal contains a complex internal structure which remains invisible so long as the crystal remains whole and undamaged.
However when a crystal shatters, the shape of the resulting shards of broken crystal reveal this (previously hidden) internal structure.
Similarly, the internal structure of the mind is invisible so long as it retains its wholeness and integrity; the mental shattering/fragmentation which occurs during periods of psychosis reveals its underlying structure in the “lines of cleavage” along which it falls apart.
According to Freud, the madman possesses a somewhat privileged perspective compared to a sane man because of his ability to perceive the hidden mental structures which are hidden to the sane man’s perspective.
This analogy of Freud’s is readily applicable to the phenomenological model of drug induced mind manifestation that I am outlining here.
—
The psychiatrist Osmond (19), who was one of the earliest scientific investigators of LSD and who is responsible for creating the word ‘psychedelic’, observed that the mental dynamics involved in schizophrenic psychosis have crucial similarities to psychedelic tripping.
It was for this reason that LSD was first labelled as ‘psychotomimetic’ (psychosis mimicking), and only later re-labelled ‘psychedelic’.
So Depraz’ (17) insight about the comparison of Husserl’s epoche to schizophrenic mental dis-integration can be extended to shed light on psychedelic mental alteration.
The heightened perspective of transcendental subjectivity, which is a new field of awareness that is revealed after exercising the epoche
(and, if Depraz’ comparison is valid, also during periods of schizophrenic psychosis)
is equivalent to the perspective of explicit representationalism that is revealed in a psychedelic trip;
the core implicit assumption that is made explicit and bracketed off is the assumption that consciousness is directly in contact with external objects, or equivalently, the assumption of straightforward identity between mental representations and their referents.
Crop by Cybermonk
Sass (6) and Stanghellini (7) both employ the term ‘hyperreflexivity’ to describe the core peculiarity of the schizophrenic patient’s subjective experiences during periods of psychosis, and this term can be used equivalently to describe the temporary cognitive alteration of the psychedelic trip experience.
For Sass (6, p.37) cognitive hyperreflexivity contrasts with ordinary cognition because of its intensely inward-pointing orientation, such that: “the ego disengages from normal forms of involvement with nature and society, often taking itself, or its own experiences, as its own object”.
Similarly Stanghellini (7, p.165) suggests that in the hyperreflexive mind: “the ‘I’ breaks down into an experiencing I-subject contemplating an experienced I-object” such that: “the act of perception itself turns out to be an explicit intelligible object”.
Again here we see a clear indication of the general idea that altered state experience involves a specific kind of dissociation in the mind between symbol and referent, a cognitive process of representation which normally operates silently in the background is brought intensely into the foreground of awareness.
—
With this model of psychedelic experiencing in mind, it is worth pointing out that the word ‘hallucinogen’ which is sometimes used to denote psychedelic drugs is misleading, insofar as it implies that the effect of the drug is to induce hallucinations that are not present in the ordinary state of consciousness.
What is actually happening in a psychedelic trip is that a certain hallucinatory (or illusory, mistaken) aspect of our ordinary experience
(our tacit conflation of the mind-dependent internal perceptual image with the mind-independent external world)
becomes explicitly apparent, which is merely implicit (and therefore typically taken for granted and not noticed) during ordinary experience.
In his exhaustive compendium of phenomenological alterations that are observed in ayahuasca sessions, Shanon (4, p.205) includes:
“the assesment, very common with ayahuasca, that what is seen and thought during the course of intoxication defines the real, whereas the world that is ordinarily perceived is actually an illusion.”.
Similarly Watts (1, p.15) likens psychedelia to the transformations of consciousness that are undertaken in Taoism and Zen, which he says is:
“more like the correction of faulty perception or the curing of a disease…not an acquisitive process of learning more and more facts or greater and greater skills, but rather an unlearning of wrong habits and opinions”.
Psychedelic drugs are often referred to as ‘teachers’ (particularly the plant-based drugs such as ayahuasca and psilocybin mushrooms), so this can be understood as the core lesson that they teach,
– they reveal the fundamental cognitive operation of fusing together representation and referent, this is the sense in which ‘mind’ becomes ‘manifested’ during a trip.
—
Hoffman (20) states that the representational nature of mind is obscured in our ordinary perceptual modality by the high degree of stability and consistency in the way that mental representations behave
(for example, solid objects remain firmly solid), which creates the strong impression that mental phenomena are concretely existing (and therefore non-mental) entities,
and that consciousness directly perceives mind-independent reality so that perception is not mediated by mental representations; this is the real meaning of a ‘hallucination’ insofar as it applies to hallucinogenic drugs.
The hallucinatory aspect of perception is exposed by the psychedelic trip-effect because the ordinary stability and consistency of the representations is noticeably diminished during a trip, solid objects appear much less solid, physical reality takes on a fluid appearance.
Mind manifestation and transformation of belief networks
written by Author, for markup by Cybermonk
In addition to the temporary perceptual alterations observed during psychedelic trip sessions, another important aspect of psychedelic phenomenology is a kind of radical psychological restructuring;
an [really, really, really] intense trip can be a life-transforming experience which leads to a major overhaul of a person’s internal framework of beliefs (Hoffman (21) calls this framework the mental worldmodel).
Crop by Cybermonk
Thagard (22) has comprehensively modelled the process of psychological paradigm transformation;
when new information comes to light that cannot be accounted for or explained by an established belief network, the entire network must undergo revision in order to accommodate the new information.
For example, someone who had lived their entire life in a black-and-white environment would believe implicitly that there are no other colours since they have no way of perceiving them.
Such a person would experience a drastic disproof of that implicit belief, if they are suddenly exposed to the world of colour for the first time (like Jackson’s (10) thought-experiment character Mary, who is suddenly shown a red rose after spending a lifetime in black-and-white).
This is comparable to the mental transformation that is undergone when a person becomes acquainted with psychedelia;
the central difference between the pre and post psychedelic belief configurations, is that the new configuration accommodates the possibility of psychedelic experience
(it accommodates the perceptual dissociation between symbol and referent).
—
The epistemological dynamics that occur during the process of waking up from a vivid dream provide a close analogy for psychedelic mental transformation;
when fully immersed in a dream world one is not aware that one is dreaming, so the contents of dream-consciousness are taken to be simply real, the subject is not aware that his surrounding environment is a mentally projected and imaginary.
After waking up, when reflecting back on the dream, the mental contents are immediately re-interpreted as unreal, imaginary mental projections in light of the new experience of waking consciousness (“it was just a dream”).
Similarly, upon perceiving directly the symbol/referent distinction in the psychedelic state of consciousness, the phenomenal content of ordinary consciousness is reinterpreted in the light of the new information that is provided by the heightened psychedelic perspective.
Every psychedelic trip lasts for a certain duration then ends as the chemicals are metabolised by the body, so the psychedelic perspective which reveals manifest phenomena as projected mental representations is only experienced on a temporary basis,
but if a person is able to fully grasp and remember the psychedelic insights after the trip ends (and become generally acquainted with the intense altered experiential modality), then the mind is permanently transformed.
—
The psychedelic belief revision is held in place by the memory of the transformative psychedelic experience, this memory provides a constant reminder which prevents the old pre-psychedelic set of beliefs/assumptions from re-establishing itself.
The existence of the altered-state modality of dissociated/hyperreflexive cognition presents a fundamental overrider to pre-established belief networks, which forces an overhaul of those networks.
The axiomatic basis of the pre-psychedelic, experientially naïve mental worldmodel (essentially, the belief in straightforward identity between mental representations and their referents) is critically undermined by transformative psychedelic experience.
Per Thagard (22) this undermining of a metaphysical model necessitates a systematic restructuring of the model, adding crucial qualifiers to foundational assumptions;
in this case the qualifiers concern the existence of an experience which seems to disprove the assumed identity of representation and referent.
—
References
written by Author, for markup by Cybermonk
1. Watts A. The Joyous Cosmology; Adventures in the chemistry of consciousness. Pantheon Books; 1962
2. Grof S. The Holotropic Mind; The three levels of human consciousness and how they shape our lives. San Francisco Harper; 1993
3. Huxley A. The Doors of Perception: And Heaven and Hell. Thinking Ink 2003
4. Shanon B. The Antipodes of the Mind: Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience. Oxford University Press; 2003
5. Sass L. The paradoxes of delusion; Wittgenstein, Schreber and the schizophrenic mind. Cornell university press; 1994
6. Sass L. Madness and modernism. Basic books; 1992
7. Stanghellini G. Disembodied spirits and deanimated bodies; the psychopathology of common sense. Oxford university press; 2004
8.Plato. Cooper J editor. The complete works. Hackett publishing. 1997
12. Marr A. Vision: A Computational Investigation into the Human Representation and Processing of Visual Information. San Francisco: W. H. Freeman & Company; 1983
13. Fodor J. The modularity of mind. MIT press; 1983
14. Hoffman M. The Entheogen Theory of Religion and Ego Death [internet]. [place unknown]1985-2007. Available from http://www.egodeath.com/mobile.htm
15. Huxley A. The Doors of Perception. Flamingo; 1977
16. Husserl E. Cartesian Meditations. Kluwer academic publishers; 1999
17. Depraz N. Putting the epoché into practice: schizophrenic experience as illustrating the phenomenological exploration of consciousness. In Fulford B, Morris K, Sadler J, Stanghellini G editors. Nature and narrative, an introduction to the philosophy of psychiatry. Oxford University press; 2003
18. Freud S. New introductory lectures on psychoanalysis. Penguin, 1988
22.Thagard P. Conceptual Revolutions. Princeton University press; 1992
Biography
Author is a philosopher and psychonautical explorer, he graduated from college with PhD in Knowledge, hosted and produced the Podcast, and has given presentations on psychedelic phenomenology at universities.
Motivation for this webpage
What made me think about this excellent, useful, relevant article is this non-excellent article; I probably like Kant and find Continental Phen’y worthless and irrelevant despite Houot’s writings claiming that this sort of Phen’y is relevant:
I would only make such a page to confirm that that approach is worthless and cannot hold a candle to the present article, which is related to the Egodeath theory.
Houot has sure not succeeded in the slightest persuading me of his claims that such Phen’y is important for psychonauts.
The present Phen’y article is important for psychonauts.
This article is by Author, not by Cybermonk.
For scholarly commentary and markup, only; not for publication.
Not a backup; for markup.
I read this aloud on the Egodeath Mystery Show, and have read a few times.
It is an ideal, perfect treatment, though I can probably extend and highlight some points.
Article not found by me at Academia.edu now.
This page is not for accurate clone backup of article as its primary purpose.
Q: How Broad Is Your Conception of “Science” and “Religion” (Mysticism, Esotericism): Can the Science approach, broadly, Explain that which Religion is trying to get at?
Q: Underneath the Noise and Confusion that Is Religion, Mysticism, and Mythology, Is There Valuable Transcendent Knowledge, or Mental Model Transformation, Buried, and Indirectly Expressed?
Q: Is there Some Type of Transcendent Knowledge or Enlightenment that Science Can and Should Explain?
Q: Is there Treasure Buried under the Mess and Confusion that’s Religion, Mysticism, and Mythology?
Q: Should Science and Engineering and Cognitive Science Strive to Explain the Transcendent Knowledge that’s Poorly Conveyed by Religion, Mysticism, Mythology, and Esotericism?
Q: Is Transcendent Knowledge Worth the Attention of Science?
Q: Are You Allergic to Religion? What Kind of Science Approach Fits with What Kind of Religion Approach?
Q: Do You Contribute any Insight or Analysis on Any Sort of Religous Transcendent Revelation in Any Way?
Q: What Can People Do to Overcome the Rift Between Psychedelic Scientists vs. Psychedelic Mystics?
Shipwreck Questions:
Q: How Do We Avoid Shipwreck in a Storm of Control Instability in the Altered State?
Q: Is the Pilot or Steersman of a Ship Have Stable, Autonomous Control of their Steering, in the Altered State?
Q: Metal Songs Such as No One at the Bridge by Rush, Reports Stormy Risk of Shipwreck – What Is Your Solution to Shipwreck in a Storm of Control Instability in the Altered State?
Eternalism Questions:
Q: Is Ramesh Balsekar Correct and Insightful that Enlightenment Is Knowledge of No-Free-Will?
Q: Is the Experience of No-free-will a Mystical Revelation?
Q: As a Scientist, Is Freewill the Case?
Q: Is Personal Control Monolithic, Autonomous Control that Selects from Possibilities that Are Available? Or, Is Personal Control Limited, 2-Level, Dependent Control?
Q: Is the future open, or closed? Do you hold to Possibilism (open future), or Eternalism (closed, pre-existing future)?
Control Stability Questions:
Q: Does a Rational Psychonaut Have Stable Control by Controlling Their Own Source of Thoughts, as an Autonomous Agent?
Q: Does a Person Control Their Own Source of Thoughts, and Create their Own Future?
Q: What Is Your Technology and Advice for Someone Who Is Terrified to Look at Their Source of Control-Thoughts for Fear of Monstrous Threatening Unavoidable Thoughts? [todo: move up w/ control stability]
Q: Do You Reject the Same Popular Ideas of Enlightenment as Tim Freke? (Emergent Evolutionary Spirituality)
Surrenderism:
Q: Underneath the Idea of Surrenderism, Is There a Real and Important Dynamic?
Q: Do You Have an Explanation of the Dynamics of Mystical Surrender?
Q: Is Science and Engineering Able to form an Explanatory Model of the Dynamics of Mystical Surrender?
Q: How serious are you on page 10 “Don’t read this book if you used any existing approach to Psychedelics?” Are we supposed to read your book, or not?
Q: When It’s Revealed that You Cannot Control Your Source of Control Thoughts, But Thoughts Arise Unstoppably and Are Unbound in the Psychedelic State, How Can The Personal Control System Avoid Panic Seizure and Restore Stable Control?
Q: What Technology Discovery Are You Withholding in the Book, Page __?
Q: How to package and deliver a psychedelic discovery, after the discovery? Do your writings only aim to get people started toward discovering, or is it aiming to cover end-to-end?
Q: Have you made any Psychedelic discoveries, or will you focus on articulating an approach and mentality opposed to therapy?
Q: Psychedelics focus awareness on inner workings of mind, so why does the book narrowly use model of ships exploring the external, physical world?
Dionysus, the Pilot Who Honors Dionysus and Lives, and the Captain Who Doesn’t Honor Dionysus and Dies
Q: Did You Study with Wouter Hanegraaff?
Q: Do Academics at Amsterdam Go to Smartshops?
Q: How Broad Is Your Conception of “Science” and “Religion” (Mysticism, Esotericism): Can the Science approach, broadly, Explain that which Religion is trying to get at?
Q: Underneath the Noise and Confusion that Is Religion, Mysticism, and Mythology, Is There Valuable Transcendent Knowledge, or Mental Model Transformation, Buried, and Indirectly Expressed?
Q: Is there Some Type of Transcendent Knowledge or Enlightenment that Science Can and Should Explain?
Q: Is there Treasure Buried under the Mess and Confusion that’s Religion, Mysticism, and Mythology?
We Agree on Pro-Science, Pro-Engineering.
We agree on Anti- the Mystical/ Mythical/ Religious Style of Expression.
Do We Disagree whether there Is Treasure of Enlightenment and Mental model transformation, Buried Underneath the Noise and Junk & Confusion Overlaid by Religion?
The Science and Engineering approach to forming an explanatory framework is the best approach to explaining anything, and is able to efficiently explain the Transcendent Knowledge “treasure” that is expressed in a confused, garbled way by religion, mysticism, mythology, esotericism, and medieval art motifs.
Q: Should Science and Engineering and Cognitive Science Strive to Explain the Transcendent Knowledge that’s Poorly Conveyed by Religion, Mysticism, Mythology, and Esotericism?
Q: Is Transcendent Knowledge Worth the Attention of Science?
Q: Does Alien Entity Contact Serve a Religious Function within the Rational Psychonaut Science Explorer Discoverer Approach?
Q: Is this an “Elite Evolutionary Spirituality” Approach, the “Rational Psychonaut Science Explorer Discoverer” Approach?
Requiring Explorers to be Fit and Atheist Rational, While Rejecting (in all senses) anything Religious, Mystical, Esoteric, Spiritual.
Rational, Scientific, Fit, Mature, Fit to be an explorer; vs. Irrational, Immature, Mentally Ill
Elitist Eugenics-Like Prideful Evolutionism
Is Tim Freke’s attempt at “evolutionary spirituality / emergent spirituality” like this, or not?
Perhaps such evolutionary spirituality fans attach themselves to Tim Freke.
I don’t care for Freke’s focus in Soul Story on survival of the soul after literal bodily death.
I embrace the potential of Science, WITHOUT scorched-earth dismissal of religion, sprituality, mysticism, mythology – I just think that the Sceiecne & esp. Engineering approach to explanatory useful framework to produce a useful technology for everyone, to contribute to the collective shared knowleddge base. I WANT EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT RELIGIOUS MYTH IS ACTUALLY REFLECTING.
I cringe at the tone or framing that Houot uses, that only “fit” people are suitable to do Rational Science Discovery Exploration.
I agree that this approach is superior:
Rational Science discovery exploration <– superior approach, to figure out…
Religion, sprituality, mysticism, mythology <– the referent to be figured out.
Jan 1988: Ken Wilber says that the nature of ego transcendence is X. But I say, the scientifically clear and engineering-useful explanatory framework is, instead,
Block-universe eternalism
Psychedelic loose cognition; loose cognitive association binding
Mental model transformation per the Way of Zen by Alan Watts: instant, quick, binary switch of mental models.
To have non-dysfunctional cross-time control. So that one can “plan and do” as expected, NOTHING MORE THAN THAT – not super-respecting enlightenment; rather, I never put enlightenment on a pedestal; instead, I had a disrespectful but PRAGMATIC AND MODEST valuation of enlightenment, Transcendent Knowledge.
Jules Evans – Evolutionary spirituality as a frame for psychedelic experiences
Video title: Jules Evans – Evolutionary spirituality as a frame for psychedelic experiences ch: Exeter Psychedelics Group Nov. 1, 2023 Talk and Q+A with Exeter Research Psychedelic Colloquium.
Desc. of video:
“One of the dominant cultural frames for psychedelics in western culture over last 130 years has been evolutionary spirituality.
“This tradition suggests human evolution is not finished and can be guided towards the creation of higher beings through such techniques as psychedelics and eugenics or genetic modification.
“But is everyone evolving into a new species, or just an elite? Jules will discuss the tradition of evolutionary spirituality, raise the ethical implications of this tradition – its tendency to spiritual narcissism, contempt for the less-evolved masses, Social Darwinism and Malthusianism, spiritual eugenics, and illiberal utopian politics—and suggest responses to these limitations.”
Comments about Video
Jan Irvin warned about this, with Huxley as Dr. Evil, contempt for the masses.
I’m too autistic to use this approach. In 1985 I was just a buggy person trying to repair their malfunctioning personal control system, and then give that explanation to everyone.
That’s it. No other narrative. I’m not a narrative guy, other than that.
In 1985, my father instructed me on leading edge human potential, self-help, transpersonal psychology.
After my block-universe eternalism breakthrough in Jan 1988, my friends had books by Leary, which I found had no appeal and no relevance.
I didn’t cross the street at Stanford in 1991 to bother going to the big psychedelics Bridge conference – that approach was not relevant enough to my project of writing-up my explanatory model of what ego transcendence is really about AND WHY WE CANNOT HAVE POSI-CONTROL ACROSS TIME.
My discovery of eternalism and its 100% total ego death cancellation of a certain sense of monolithic, autonomous control, was the opposite of personal grandiosity.
I am personally grand as an explainer of why 2-level, dependent control is the case, humbling-to-death King Ego.
When I intended to learn what ego transcendence is really about, in order to repair my dysfunctional cross-time control.
dysfunctional cross-time control dctc
Q: Are You Allergic to Religion? What Kind of Science Approach Fits with What Kind of Religion Approach?
Crop and annotations by Michael Hoffman
Q: Do You Contribute any Insight or Analysis on Any Sort of Religous Transcendent Revelation in Any Way?
Q: What Can People Do to Overcome the Rift Between Psychedelic Scientists vs. Psychedelic Mystics?
Crop by Michael HoffmanCrop by Michael HoffmanCrop by Michael Hoffman “Field of Mushrooms Canterbury Window blue cap.jpg” 35 KB 11:02 pm Mar. 28, 2025 {cut right trunk} (U line bottom right) = YI form
Q: How Do We Avoid Shipwreck in a Storm of Control Instability in the Altered State?
Q: Is the Pilot or Steersman of a Ship Have Stable, Autonomous Control of their Steering, in the Altered State?
Q: Metal Songs Such as No One at the Bridge by Rush, Reports Stormy Risk of Shipwreck – What Is Your Solution to Shipwreck in a Storm of Control Instability in the Altered State?
Q: Is Ramesh Balsekar Correct and Insightful that Enlightenment Is Knowledge of No-Free-Will?
Q: Is the Experience of No-free-will a Mystical Revelation?
Q: As a Scientist, Is Freewill the Case?
Q: Is Personal Control Monolithic, Autonomous Control that Selects from Possibilities that Are Available? Or, Is Personal Control Limited, 2-Level, Dependent Control?
Q: Is the future open, or closed? Do you hold to Possibilism (open future), or Eternalism (closed, pre-existing future)?
Q: Does a Rational Psychonaut Have Stable Control by Controlling Their Own Source of Thoughts, as an Autonomous Agent?
Q: Does a Person Control Their Own Source of Thoughts, and Create their Own Future?
Q: What Is Your Technology and Advice for Someone Who Is Terrified to Look at Their Source of Control-Thoughts for Fear of Monstrous Threatening Unavoidable Thoughts?
Crop by Michael Hoffman
Q: Do You Reject the Same Popular Ideas of Enlightenment as Tim Freke? (Emergent Evolutionary Spirituality)
Tim Freke recently is trying to reject pop spirituality concepts such as
Nonduality; unity; oneness.
Ego is illusion. The self doesn’t exist.
Separate self is an illusion.
The goal of enlightenment is to get rid of the ego.
Q: Underneath the Idea of Surrenderism, Is There a Real and Important Dynamic?
Q: Do You Have an Explanation of the Dynamics of Mystical Surrender?
Q: Is Science and Engineering Able to form an Explanatory Model of the Dynamics of Mystical Surrender?
Q: Why Doesn’t the Book Have a Section on Surrenderism, Given that That’s the Central Topic in Your Masters’ Dissertation and in your article The Psychonaut’s Ship?
Crop by Michael Hoffman
Q: How serious are you on page 10 “Don’t read this book if you used any existing approach to Psychedelics?” Are we supposed to read your book, or not?
Please put this book down if you’ve never ingested psychedelics or if you take them for therapeutic, recreational, religious, spiritual growth, personal growth, cognitive enhancement, creativity-inspirational, or self-actualizing purposes. It’s not for you … With that said, my message will not resonate with everyone.
p. 10, Rise of the Psychonaut: Maps for Amateurs, Nonscientists and Explorers in the Psychedelic Age of Discovery (Houot, 2025)
Q: When It’s Revealed that You Cannot Control Your Source of Control Thoughts, But Thoughts Arise Unstoppably and Are Unbound in the Psychedelic State, How Can The Personal Control System Avoid Panic Seizure and Restore Stable Control?
Crop and annotations by Michael Hoffman
Q: What Technology Discovery Are You Withholding in the Book, Page __?
todo: figure out the p. #
Q: How to package and deliver a psychedelic discovery, after the discovery? Do your writings only aim to get people started toward discovering, or is it aiming to cover end-to-end?
Q: Have you made any Psychedelic discoveries, or will you focus on articulating an approach and mentality opposed to therapy?
Q: Psychedelics focus awareness on inner workings of mind, so why does the book narrowly use model of ships exploring the external, physical world?
Q: What are some specific useful, relevant technologies provided to give people stable control while on Psilocybin? A mindset?
Commentary
The Irony in this Page Title: “Psychedelic “Church” Concept Causes Allergic Seizure Reaction in Houot the “Naturalist, Rational Psychonaut” Who Is Against “Anyone Esoteric or Mystical or Spiritual or Religious or Transcendent or Woo”
Corpse, Stable Building Protected by Cloth Washed Clean
Crop by Michael Hoffman
Why Creating a Page Focused on Formulating Questions for the Author
Thanks to RL for asking me the question of me asking Ooh-Oh questions.
A. M. Houot (Ooh-Oh)
My questions and this page are not just about the book. I treat Houot’s entire corpus: diss + 2 articles + book.
The book lacks – incongruously – Houot’s fav topic, disparagement of mystics’ ‘surrenderism”.
See Michelle Janikian’s book for crude folk surrenderism writeup, her book is good.
“Discover the transformational power of psilocybin mushroom with this all-encompassing guide to harnessing magic mushrooms safely and effectively.
“With so much misinformation surrounding magic mushrooms out there, it can be hard to separate fact from fiction.
“This is where Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion comes in to help.
“In this book, you’ll find a comprehensive yet friendly guide to everything there is to know about magic mushrooms.
“Learn how to plan safe, effective trips with easy-to-follow step-by-step advice.
“Discover how to train a guide to take care of those on psychedelic voyages, as well as how to access the transformative nature of these experiences.
“Even learn how microdosing can improve your mood, cognitive functioning, creativity, physical stamina, and more.
“With the most up-to-date research, Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion will put magic mushrooms into perspective, dispel myths and urban legends, and open your mind to the benefits of psychedelic tripping.”
/ end blurb Janikian book
Increase Your Control Agency Harder and Harder Until It Explodes in Climactic Control Transformation
⚖️💥☸️
Crop by Michael Hoffman
…. i wonder…. Houot in book says he’s withholding something.
LOL there’s my Q1: WHAT ARE YOU WITHHOLDING FROM US?
I bet something about surrenderism and WE MUST INCREASE OUR EGOIC SELF CONTROL POWER:
STAND ON LEFT FOOT HARDER!
UNTIL BLOW UP TO SMITHEREENS IN A FIRE PIT OF CYBERNETIC CONTROL SEIZURE DEATH FAILURE revealing there is no power there at all.
Crop by Michael Hoffman
Metal Lyrics about Transformative Crisis of Control
Crying back to consciousness The coldness grips my skin The sky is pitching violently Drawn by shrieking winds Seaspray blurs my vision Waves roll by so fast Save my ship of freedom I’m lashed helpless to the mast
Call out for direction And there’s no one there to steer Shout out for salvation But there’s no one there to hear Cry out supplication For the maelstrom is near Scream out desperation But no one cares to hear
Remembering when first I held The wheel in my own hands I took the helm so eagerly And sailed for distant lands
Crop by Michael Hoffman
But now the sea’s too heavy And I just don’t understand Why must my crew desert me When I need a guiding hand
— Rush
S.A.T.O. (e.g. Sailing the Acid Trip Ocean) (Ozzy Osbourne, 1981)
Lyrics – Improved Transcription by Michael Hoffman April 12, 2025, for scholarly study.
Can’t understand what is happening to me This isn’t real, this is only a dream But I never have felt, no, I never have felt this way before
I’m looking down on my body below I lie asleep in the midst of a dream Is it now, could it be, the – Angel of Death has come for me?
I can’t believe that really my time has come I don’t feel ready, there’s so much left undone And it’s my soul, and I’m not gonna let it get away [loose cognitive experience of soul (egoic control agency) vanishing]
Heaven can wait Heaven can wait Heaven can wait Heaven can wait ’til another day
I have a lust for the Earth below And Hell itself is my only foe ‘Cause I’ve no fear of dying; I’ll – Go when I’m good and ready
I snatch a glimpse of the lights eternal rays I see a tunnel, I stand amazed At all of the people standing there in front of me
Into the paths of rightness I’ll be led Is this the place where the living join the dead? I wish I knew this was only just a nightmare [not just a temporary Mystery Religion terror trip initiation awe; produces mental model maturation: permanent modification of conscious foundation of source of control thoughts]
Take my hand, I’ll lead you to the promised land Take my hand, I’ll give you immortality Eternal youth, I’ll take you to the other side To see the truth, the path for you is decided [non-branching worldline in block universe 4D spacetime per eternalism and Minkowski; {snake frozen in rock}]
My body tingles, I feel so strange [acid effect] I feel so tired, I feel so drained And I’m wondering if I’ll ever be the same again [yes and no, after the foundation of control-thought source is re-conceived]
Is this in limbo or Heaven or Hell? Maybe I’m going down there as well I can’t accept my soul will drift forever
I feel myself floating back down to Earth So could this be the hour of my rebirth Or have I died or will I wake from dreaming?
Phenomenology for Psychedelic Researchers: A Review of Current Methods & Practices (Houot, 2021)
As always, the title is good to project your wishes onto – the actual content might be disappointing, not useful. Imagine how awesome this article! Do not look at actual article.
Concept of the focus of this page: I am focusing my target audience in context of Houot’s call for a STEM Scientist Explorer “pure exploration” approach in HARSH opposition to any whiff of childish immature mentally ill spiritual religious esoteric approach to psychedelics. My problem to work out is,
Am I only targeting Cognitive Scientists, only trying to equip THEM to endure the Psilocybin state of loose cognition, telling ONLY them what to do – or what God will make them do – when God pulls them through the transformation gate?
I don’t divide up PEOPLE like Houot does. I think in terms of approaches: a dubious mysticism approach, a dubious Science approach – for ALL audience. Houot usually makes mistake of “us vs them”, he makes it personal:
We good people use the correct, mature, Science approach.
You bad ppl use the incorrect, immature, mentally ill, Religion-people / spirituality-people / mystics approach.
Yes, I – the Egodeath theory — do COMPARABLE values and criticisms, but it’s different. I welcome and speak to everyone. I don’t make it personal. I criticise the bad behavior of MICA Deniers and their non sequitur arguments.
To read Houot’s book you have to shove Houot aside when he trries to shove YOU aside. You have to read his book DESPITE his sometimes trying to drive you off because you fail to be pure by his measure. Bizarre, autistic. Churlish, no social common sense.
I joke and criticize everyone, but that’s not fundamental to my thinking; I am basically open to everyone – Houot often strikes tone of immature online “We Atheists vs. those bad, Religion people.” Us-vs-them smack talk and prideful advocacy. The worst, antisocial, unculivated, rude – I am rude and critical but not the same way.
Surely these is nothing; merely surface style? I don’t hear Houot emphasizing reconcilation. I am fundamentally reconciling.
Huggins Pours Gasoline on the Battle Between Us “Science” Advocates vs. the Bad, “Religion” Advocates
No way does my development idea development for the Egodeath theory do that. I am fundamnetally ….
the Mytheme theory = humanities/ myth/ religion/ spirituality/ mysticism. floating surface, sits on top of the cybernetic theory basis.
the cybernetic theory = STEM – the foundation basis.
the cybernetic theory = STEM;
the Mytheme theory = humanities/ myth/ religion/ spirituality/ mysticism.
See, I am fundmanetally BOTH HALVES: my right leg STEM on ground, lifted is my left, mysticism/myth leg.
Houot comes across as no aptitude for reconciling here. He eggs on the bifurcation of Us Rational Naturalists vs. the Bad Religion Woo People.
He pours gasoline on the flames of Junk “Science” vs. Junk “Religion” perma battle. He takes sides in an immature way.
[5:26 pm Mar. 28, 2025] AFTER I created & uploaded here & then sent that picture crop url to R., I AFTERWARDS looked for mushroom in that crop, certainly not expecting one, b/c I didn’t see one during discovering the pretty window and croppping it the past few minutes.
Then I texted to R.:
“just messin, wanted to send u pretty pic of altered state turmoil ark w/ calming dove, then i thought there better be msh – j/k but — take a look at lower left. ez like falling over a log“
left hand points 4 fingers up at Left, branching part of tree, and L foot is under that.
right hand points down to ground.
bottom tree is YI, visually {cut right branch} cross-behind.
Crop by Michael Hoffman – YI branching form, and {cut right trunk}. “Parable of the Sower Canterbury top mushroom-tree.jpg” 23 KB 6:42 pm Mar. 28, 2025 https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_SowerCrop by Michael Hoffman – YI branching form via visually {cut right branch} cross-behind. “Parable of the Sower Canterbury bottom mushroom-tree.jpg” 4 KB 6:43 pm Mar. 28, 2025 https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower
I have seen this “field of mushrooms” before – is it in my WordPress gallery? doubt.
Crop by Michael Hoffman “canterbury panels field of mushrooms.jpg” 4 KB, 6:09 pm Mar. 28, 2025
I have seen – from Jan Irvin? the bottom middle: “field of mushrooms”.
I think Jan Irvin mentions that picture in the interview w/ Max Freakout.
Jan Irvin SAID IN THE INTERVIEW HE ONLY PUBLISHED 1/10 OF HIS COLLECTION IN THE GALLERY IN The Holy Mushroom.
Max Freakout Interviewed Jan Irvin in 2009 on Psychonautica Podcast – EPIC!! 🤯
I listened yesterday Mar. 27, 2025 for 2nd time, 1st time that I recall listening to that episode is is Dec. 2024.
Great episode.
Jan Irvin has just finished writing The Holy Mushroom: Evidence of Mushrooms in Judeo-Christianity (Jan Irvin, 2008) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1439215170
Jan Irvin told Max Freakout that he had finished some edition of AstroSham – either “2005/2006” 1st Edition, or, 2009 2nd Edition.
Jan Irvin ji
Jewish Views on Astrology in Ancient Times (Video interview video, Chris Brennan, Justin Sledge)
brennan’s ch is awesome in that it has TIMESTAMPS praise the Lord.
01:07:30 Astrology and Fate become entwined 01:08:17 Apocalyptic Judaism 01:10:58Debates in Christianity about astrology and fate <=== — transcript of this whole section :
Debates in Christianity about astrology and fate
CB:
“… even though there’s that story in Matthew that’s using astrology basically in order to put a foundation under Christianity within contemporary Mediterranean culture by saying astrology confirms that this guy is actually the Messiah or this guy is the son of God.
“After the first century, it seems like there became these debates within Christianity.
“And later Christian authors had to find ways to kind of downplay that story because there was a theological issue that became front and center for several centuries about astrology being associated with fate but the concept of free will and choice being theologically very important.
“And therefore, a lot of Christian polemics ended up being directed against astrology because of its association with fate and predetermination and things like that.
“And it seems like we get some of that in the Jewish tradition in this time period at the same time.
“So what is the time frame of the Talmud? And what is the significance of that in terms of Jewish culture and literature?
JS: “Yeah. So after the destruction of the temple.”
/ end of section/transcript
As I yelled aloud in other video against Brennan — and then Sledge said the exact same words that I just said:
ALL brands of religion disparaged the other brands as “they make you a slave of fate, imprisoned in cosmic heimarmene, only OUR brand transcends Fatedness 😑”
I did not know that this video is w/ Chris Brennan, astrology history book author, not only w/ Dr. Justin Sledge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i4uI7gFEpw — like the 2013 book by Nicola Denzy Lewis that I posted a great tight mini-review in 2014 at Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Cosmology-Fate-Gnosticism-Graeco-Roman-Antiquity/dp/9004245480/ Not expensive like the $145 ripoff book by Wouter “Star Destroyer” Hanegraaff that doesn’t even come with stars!; just $200. hahaha Brill, like Dr. Justin Sledge jokes about 🤑💰 – Why is tuition so high these days? 🤔🤷♂️
“Cosmology and Fate in Gnosticism and Graeco-Roman Antiquity: Under Pitiless Skies (Nag Hammadi and Manichaean Studies, 81) by Nicola Denzey Lewis (Author) 5.0 5.0 out of 5 stars (1) <– only a single lone autistic dork reviewed it?! oh its me😞
“In Cosmology and Fate in Gnosticism and Graeco-Roman Antiquity, Nicola Denzey Lewis dismisses Hans Jonas’ mischaracterization of second-century Gnosticism as a philosophically-oriented religious movement built on the perception of the cosmos as negative or enslaving.
“A focused study on the concept of astrological fate in
“Gnostic” writings including
the Apocryphon of John, the recently-discovered
Gospel of Judas,
Trimorphic Protennoia, and the
Pistis Sophia,
this book reexamines their language of “enslavement to fate (Gk: heimarmene)” from its origins in
Greek Stoicism, its deployment by the
apostle Paul, to its later use by
a variety of second-century intellectuals (both Christian and non-Christian).
“Denzey Lewis thus offers an informed and revisionist conceptual map of the ancient cosmos, its influence, and all those who claimed to be free of its potentially pernicious effects.”
Benefit from Houot’s errors in not bringing together all approaches. Do opposite of Houot approach, in my advocacy of a Loose Cognitive Science approach informed by the Mytheme theory.
Bridging the Two Parties that Want to Fight
Removed the deservedly scathing analysis from my Rise of the Psychonaut book review page, moved it here, to transform it into CONSTRUCTIVE LESSONS LEARNED.
May I be not like that.
Mission in Line with Rise of the Psychonaut
“Charting a travel map”; defining my own field of Loose Cognitive Science; defining my own audience of Loose Cognitive Scientists
I doubt Ooh-Oh’s emphasis on the “travel explorer” metaphor, my assessment of the cultural situation:
I’m the only one who knows what an actual “Cognitive Science/ Cognitive Phenomenology approach” really is, and actually uses that approach.”
My imagined target audience for my theory of mental transformation is “Cognitive Scientists”.
The field of Cognitive Science is doing Cognitive Science wrong and doesn’t know what [switching to my term] Loose Cognitive Science, actually means.
What the field of so-called “Cognitive Science” is doing is just merely reductionist Neuroscience pretending to be Cognitive – an empty Marketing label.
As Ooh-Oh calls for, I am now mapping and charting — I am packaging and final-drafting my existing map & chart — the Psilocybin control-transformation experience, for an audience of Psychedelic Cognitive Scientists (I am defining what that needs to mean) and for a general audience,
to suitably equip and help people endure and cope with the {gate guard} {shadow dragon monster} and {pass through the gate},
employing and explaining religious myth & medieval art motifs as analogies serving to clarify and explain,
but the needed scientific map is not based on myth; the useful explanatory model (“map”) is based on direct STEM-type explanatory model communication.
Religious myth is analogies describing Psilocybin experience (that’s where religious myth comes from).
A map of the Psilocybin transformation experience must leverage myth as a map guiding people through Psilocybin transformation.
Mission & Central Target Audience/ User Persona: Equip Cognitive Scientists for the Psilocybin State
Now, my driving mission, most of all, is to equip Cognitive Scientists to endure and use the altered state, so that they can explore it for Science.
That is my defined target audience. If I can provide for their needs, that covers everyone’s needs.
That’s my strategic audience focus, who I can most relate to & provide for, in terms that they relate to.
Book: Rise of the Psychonauts, even though my official focused mission — equip Cog Sci for scientific exploration — exactly aligns with (Houot) the author’s concept.
Mission, in line with Houot’s book:
Provide a useful explanatory model of control transformation in the Psilocybin state,
to enable Cognitive Scientists to generally explore and research cognitive phenomenology in the Psilocybin state,
including explaining religious myth and medieval art motifs as analogies describing personal control-model transformation driven by the altered state.
What looks like “loss of control” prior to passing through the transformation gate, from the point of view afterwards looks like control transformation; transformation of the mental model of personal control & of branching possibilities with steering power.
I have stable control — if God wills it.
Doing Opposite of Houot’s Divisiveness
Dubious “travel explorer” metaphor overused, what else you got?
As book club participlants said, the book seems to use a heavy-handed over-emphasis specifically on the analogy of “travel exploration“.
Doesn’t that contradict Oh Ow’s disparagement of the “trip” metaphor?
In my experience, which probably is much greater than Oh Ow’s experience, I have NEVER used the metaphor of “travel exploration”.
(Compare: Participlants said “I never encountered space-entities like Oh Ow focuses on.”)
Mushroom Formats
How much ground mushrooms it’s possible to pack into a double-zero gelcap (half gram),
and good chocolate format
I Tell You that You Are an Undesirable if You
never ingested psychedelics
take psychedelics for therapeutic purposes – if there is anything wrong w/ you, do not read this book. It is for the sane and healthy; other people are not welcome here. only for PURE explorers; this book is only for the Pure people. Sick people do not do pure exploration, so, do not read this book unless you are perfectly well in all ways – you fail to meet my criteria.
take psychedelics for recreational purposes
take psychedelics for religious purposes
take psychedelics for spiritual growth purposes
take psychedelics for personal growth purposes
take psychedelics for cognitive enhancement purposes <– go away, losers!
take psychedelics for creativity-inspirational purposes <- you are the enemy
take psychedelics for self-actualizing purposes
“With that said, my message will not resonate with everyone.” He doesn’t even tell his message to everyone – like Jesus, he only came to save those who already follow him.
Houot emphat’ly makes it personal. vs critique limits of approaches.
Don’t be dogmatic and limited thinking – You Can’t do My Pure Scientist Exploring Unless You Are Pure and Healthy (and Open Minded, Rational, and Mature — Like Me)
ch 2 26:00 “ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE REACHED A STATE OF RELATIVE WELLNESS PRIOR TO CONSUMPTION, ONLY THEN CAN THEY ADOPT AN EXPLORATION ROLE, / ARE YOU CAPABLE OF EXPLORATION. There’s no correct way OR motive to take a psychedelics; and supposing so is dogmatic and represents limited thinking.”
— UNBELIEVABLE Houot, and incoherent, WHERE IS YOUR MOTHER TO EDIT YOU, you need to work out your own demons and contradictions, you keep contradicting yourself. Reconcile your inner conflicts, Houot, lecturing people incoherently.
I , Michael Hoffman , have a history of dysfunctional perfectionism, incl beating up on myself.
DYSFUNCTIONAL PERFECTIONISM/ IDEALISM by Houot. result is churlish, clumsy, ROUGH HEWN technologist, no P R skills.
Matt Johnson & Chris Letheby beating up on mystics. pushing their Correct wway, their Way of Hardcore Materialism – rational healthy ppl use our way. Divisive
The Divisive Mentality in Psychedelic Science
Don’t Be Divisive Like Those “Secret Amanita Paradigm” Jerks
I, the Egodeath theory, criticize but I build bridges. am i like Houot?
The Egodeath Theory Successfully Bridges & Reconciles Science & Religion; STEM & Spirituality; Explanation & Myth
he later weakly makes reconcilation noises, too late.
critique should aim towards reconcile. I condemn this and that, and, I reconcile to fix the bifurcation and reach integration after correction.
Houot’s error — that of both sides in the fight — is to my benefit, ok. shrug
Error: Says Thomas Roberts Taught Univ Psychedelics Course Longest; Jerry Brown Actually did
ch 3 14:00
Do Not Read this Book Unless You Already Use the Narrow Approach I Articulate and Are on My Side Against the Enemies, who are [Long List of All Approaches Ever]
Ooh-Oh, pronounced WHOO-OOOAAHH!, massively botches his logic and ends up rejecting & turning away 150% of all categories of people on Earth.
Please put this book down if you’ve never ingested psychedelics or if you take them for therapeutic, recreational, religious, spiritual growth, personal growth, cognitive enhancement, creativity-inspirational, or self-actualizing purposes. It’s not for you
With that said, my message will not resonate with everyone.
p. 10
Yessir ok,
📘 –> 🗑 by order of Houot 🤷♂️
also Houot: i’m here to help you even if you are uneducated. Incoherent approach. Imagine him making instructional video: you are not allowed to hear my advocacy if you don’t already fully agree with the approach I advocate.
Test of Whether Cybermonk Is so Negative
Have I had the attitude:
Please do not study the Egodeath theory if you’ve never ingested psychedelics or if you take them for therapeutic, recreational, religious, spiritual growth, personal growth, cognitive enhancement, creativity-inspirational, or self-actualizing purposes. It’s not for you.
With that said, my message will not resonate with everyone.
Bifurcation in the Field and Book, Egged on by Houot & James Kent, matt j, c letheby–: Houot Makes it Personal and Entrenched Sides Fighting Each Other – Yet Tries to Welcome the Uneducated – INCOHERENT, self contradiction strategies
Houot did not invent the spilt. He eggs it on to exacerbate it, p. 10.
The page 10 disaster reflects the perpetuation of war between junk “science” vs junk “religion” approaches, but he makes it personal: the scientists vs the religionists. if you —
error 2: he classifies cognitive enhancement with stupid mystic shaman bad approach fWR WTF doesn’t even divide sensibly. trip is bad, explore is good. but personalizes: trip metaphro users are bad, go away; explorer metaphor users are good.
I advocate 1 approach of 100, therefore, I tell 99 % of PEOPLE: do not read my book.
To describe my approach I am advocating – , I shall identify the 150% (( his categs don’t make sense) of people who should not read my book.
I am not advocating this approach to everyone; I am ONLY advocating this approach to the 1% of people – after I drove off incoherently defined set of 150% of ppl — who already agree with me.
SUCH PERSUASION TECHNIQUE!
this keyboard is litrally falling apart under my fingers, mac butterfly garbage worst keyboard ever, too noisy for the classroom, too – embarr.
The Mysticism Wars – aggressive Matt Johnson and Chris Letheby when Letheby is not tripping and telling us “only mind exists”
bifurc in Letheby’s head
The ridiculous extremist materilaist nsci scinegi scientist materialist rationalists vs the woo, wooly headed mystics – extremist charaicature.
They Want to Fight: If You Are in the Spirituality Shaman Group-Trip, Mystic, or Cognitive Enhancement crowd, Sacred, Divine, or any other approach, DO NOT READ MY BOOK, YOU ARE THE ENEMY
quote p 10 insane list of bad people/approaches that must not be used ~
then says “that approach is ok, ” – but do not read this book, you are the enemy.
The Psychedelic War Between Science vs. Religion 🤜💥🤛 -ok, A. M. Whooahhhh “Ego Death & Dionysus are Stupid”
Thank you for the opportunity for the Egodeath theory to be the bridge that you failed to build. I am learning from and leveraging Houot’s error and failure to integrate the two “incompatible” approaches or realms of concern.
Alan Houot says there’s no right way to use psychedelics, and yet, also says the opposite, contradicting himself, not presenting a reconciled package that’s integrated.
p 10: 99% of readers, do not read my book. later, he is reconciliatory, “we should open mind re religion” – CONTRADICTING HIMSELF.
Clumsy, incoherent, inconsistent.
James Kent treated my Myth decoding as garbage anathema against his anti-psychedelic, demonization of religion/myth/ psychedelics.
Transcendent Knowledge podcast with Max Freakout & Cyberdisciple:
Blurb: sounds like the typical “Cognitive Neuroscience Minus Cognitive” approach:
“Psychedelic Information Theory is a formal analysis of the physical mechanisms underlying hallucination, shamanic ritual, and expanded states of consciousness.”
[no telling what anyone means by ‘consciousness’; not my cog cybernetic phen’y]
“Written by James L. Kent, this text was researched for over 20 years and includes over 200 references and 31 images related to the latest science in the diverse fields of pharmacology, shamanism, and perception.
“As a succinct yet comprehensive formal analysis of the nonlinear dynamics of hallucination and shamanic ritual, Psychedelic Information Theory is destined to become the modern textbook on psychedelic phenomena.
“Chapters include information on
the physiology of perception,
types of visual hallucination,
psychedelic pharmacology,
psychedelic neuroplasticity,
chaos theory,
shamanic therapy,
shamanic sorcery, and
group mind phenomena related to psychedelic consciousness.
“Psychedelic Information Theory will prove, no doubt, to be an important work primarily because it provides researchers, in both the sciences and humanities, with numerous new avenues down which to investigate.
“PIT provides us with a serious, and in many respects successful, recalibration of the different psychedelic knowledge bases.
In great respect to the author, I believe PIT will attract both plaudits and criticism with equal fervour and, in doing so, help proliferate serious psychedelic research for some time to come.”
– Rob Dickens, PsyPressUK.com Review, December 2010
“In his new book, Psychedelic Information Theory: Shamanism in the Age of Reason, James Kent has attempted to describeboth the experience and underlying mechanisms of consciousness, in the language of classical wave mechanics, with terms like neural oscillators, periodic drivers, wave entrainment, resonance and coherence.
“His book offers the first steps in developing a more refined and quantifiable theory and terminology of psychedelic action.
“It suggests many rich opportunities for further research that are bound to reveal some pragmatic and novel applications.
“Not since “The Invisible Landscape,” by the McKenna brothers, have I found a book so original and propitious.”
– Jedi Mind Traveler, Evolver.net Interview, January 2011
“James L. Kent has proven himself to be the ‘Mythbuster‘ of the New Psychedelic Age.
“His book, Psychedelic Information Theory is the everyman’s guide to inner consciousness, unraveling the scientific foundations of altered states.
“PIT challenged my views on the psychedelic experience: I might not agree with some of the conclusions, but I have a firmer grip on the basics because of it.
“Kent helps outline the mechanics of the mind, but his reductionist approach also leaves room for further mysteries to grow.”- Rak Razam, author of Aya: A Shamanic Odyssey, November 2010
“Kent’s clear trail through volumes of research gave me a solid understanding of how rod and cone vision, phosphenes, the visual information processing rate, and the brain’s pattern-recognition function all come together or come apart to modulate hallucinatory states.
“Kent deserves a place next to Grof on the psychonaut’s, scientist’s, and psychologist’s bookshelf.”
– Sheldon Norberg, author of Healing Houses, Erowid.org Review, October 2010
/ end blurb for PIT
“Either You are Religious, or Secular and Explorative”
Houot writes:
“Of course, we’ll see some people who take psychedelics for recreational, religious, and therapeutic reasons convert to the more secular common explorative motive proposed here.”
“When I say secular psychonaut, what I mean is that your religious beliefs or any other strongly held belief system does not spill over into your explorative use of psychedelics.”
“I Wouldn’t Dismiss Religion, or I’d Be Dogmatic; I’m Open-Minded (on this page)”
“Atheism, or a disbelief that a God or God’s exist, is for me just as dogmatic as mainstream religion.
“I approach psychedelics as an agnostic, that is, someone who does not know either way, but is open to considering all possibilities.
“While my approach and I think any explorers approach to psychedelics should lean secular, I am at least open to the idea that that which I encounter just might be religious or turn out to be communication with God, gods, angels, or demons.
[Page 91]
“Terrence McKenna says: “I call myself an explorer rather than a scientist, because the area that I’m looking at contains insufficient data to support even the dream of being a science.” …”
[page 92 top]
McK:
“The mindset that I always bring to it is simply exploratory and Baconian–the mapping and gathering of facts.”
— footnote 23 : McKenna 1991, page 36.
1991 book: The archaic revival: speculations on psychedelic mushrooms, the Amazon, virtual reality, UFOs, evolution, shamanism, the rebirth of the goddess, and the end of history.
[Page 94]
Houot writes:
“Most ordinary folks won’t know how to operate let alone interpret the results of fancy laboratory equipment.
“They can, however, enter visionary places, look around, and tell the rest of us what that realm is like: how the experience unfolded, what was possible in that realm, what kinds of things they saw, what were their entities, and if so , what did they look like, what did they say, what did they want?”
It’s just angel of God saying sacrifice your only son as an offering on altar of sticks, fire, blade, to pass through the gateway:
todo: put side by side w/ St Martin Entry Jerusalem > finger shapes – if not done somewhere already:
“We don’t know what these substances are fully capable of because little research has been done on their visionary effects in a rigorous way.
“We are at the beginning of the psychedelic Renaissance, and the same can be said regarding exploratory research of psychedelics visions.
“Ditch the Stupid Religion, Loser”
“The shift in mindset from recreational, religious, or therapeutic to explorative and scientifically-minded is as much conceptual as it is methodical.
“Ask yourself what you want to get out of psychedelics, for that determines the frame of mind with which you enter these experiences.”
“My Boxed-in Motive Is Correct, Scientific, and Open Minded; Your Boxed-in Motive Is Wrong, Religious, and Closed Minded”
“My vision for the future of psychedelic research is to send astronaut-like explorers out into visionary realms, free from religious, therapeutic, or other boxed-in motives and to engage in pure exploration of these states with open minds.”
“I want to see the exploration, more explicit, direct, and becoming an additional focus of psychedelic science now and in the future.
“I want to see more people embrace the psychonaut explorer mindset as an alternative to the other motive-inspired mindsets people have long had for taking psychedelics.
“I want people to come back with priceless observational data about their journeys to make future users travels safer, more predictable, and as a result, to reduce fear of these experiences.
“I want modern psychedelic users to think about where the future of psychedelic use and research will lead.
“I want you to think about how you can contribute to our collective understanding of these other worldly dimensions in meaningful ways.”
/ end condensed excerpts from Rise of the Arrogant Psychonaut by A. M. Whoooooo-oooaahhh! I can’t believe you wrote that!!
Rational Psychonauts Avoid Anything that Sounds Esoteric or Religious
Sounds Like James Kent’s Simple-Minded/ Intellectually Lazy, Scorched-Earth Dismissal
p 87:
Houot writes:
“Rational psychonauts distance themselves from ordinary, psychedelic users, and psychonauts.
” Their science-based approach is thinking rationally and skeptically to understand and interpret psychedelic experiences.
“They avoid anything that sounds esoteric, religious or dogmatic.” – dummy Houot: what if I am a theorist successfully delivering an explanatory model explaining the actual nature of religious myth and religious transcendent experience? In that case, using “Science”, I explain myth & religion – not “avoid”. Your word ‘avoid’ is ambiguous, avoid in what sense/way? You are writing statements about religion here, shouldn’t you avoid that topic, because you are being irrational? where do you draw your line? Not articulate enough, “avoid anything that soundds religious”.
Houot writes:
“Rational psychonauts intellectualize their subjective, psychedelic experiences, visions, and the cognitive and physiological mechanisms underlying the production of visions, thinking scientifically and philosophically about the phenomenon and trying to figure out what’s going on overall.
“Researchers [pay attention to ] recreational users versus psychonauts, but they overlook rational psychonauts and their motives.
“Reddit members [of the /RationalPsychonaut forum] subscribe to the rational psychonaut credo :
“A community for sensible discussion of the science of altered states.
“For people interested in exploring in our realms without subscribing to the woo surrounding the topic.”
[page 88]
“Psychedelics cause some people to become mentally unstable or make them believe they met God, they are God, or they’re a messiah with a message.”
[which does sound like the author, Houot.]
“In accordance with rational psychonaut principles, my highly rational outlook in addition to my scientific and philosophical training grounds me when venturing into visionary states elicited by psychedelics.”
Translation: Hubris: I retain full control of my intentions, because I am rational unlike lesser people.
[Page 89]
“I don’t think that people who take psychedelics for recreational, religious or therapeutic motives are irrational.
“Theologians, gurus, and monks, for example, can appear extremely logical concerning religious and religious and spiritual belief systems.
“I defend [read: disparage] other people’s reasons for taking psychedelics and the ways in which they make sense of them.
“The rational psychonaut approach is essentially what I would like to see more of, but we can do better.”
Houot here equates religious = irrational:
“Secular psychonaut is in line with a non-religious approach to psychedelics which includes undertones of rationality
The widespread secularism found in science and academic disciplines inspired this idea of a secular approach since science and religion butted heads 500 years ago”
Houot uses false dichotomy of unimaginative ‘science’ – conception of ‘science vs. religion’.
That low-grade, poor-quality opposition & false dich got rid of – per Wouter Hanegraaff – esotericism & Psilocybin (entheogenic esotericism) in the dust-up, 1687 Newton Princip, threw discarded psychedelic esotericism.
Not that the Egodeath theory = entheogenic esotericism
The Egodeath theory REPLACES entheogenic esotericism, and replaces common-core mysticism and perennialism, as a communication style and indeterminate grab-bag, messy muddled OBSCURANTISM.
The Egodeath theory IS THE ENEMY OF OBSCURANTISM.
“A Secular Psychonaut Wouldn’t Want to Explore Religious Realms”
Houot writes:
“I like the term secular psychonaut but what if someone religiously inclined wants to explore “religious realms” or “religious experiences“?
“I doubt that this would happen, but who knows, everybody is different.”
[Page 90]
“People can explore psychedelic realms and be religious; yet I don’t consider people who already practice a particular belief system to be explorative because they found what works for them and they’re unlikely to change if indeed they’re genuine believers.”
I believe in transformation from possibilism to eternalism.
Houston We Have a Problem: Disrespects Readers
Houot would never talk down to the audience of his dissertation and the two professional article to peers, after that.
But switching to his imagined audience of little people, he is 100% self-defeating. Therefore he needs an editor, when trying to write for a popular audience.
To remember how to pronounce “Houot”: “Do not read this book if you ever used any of these purposes for psychedelics:” Reaction: WHOOOOOAAAHHH! 🤦♂️🤦♂️ Whoooo-oooooh! Who-Oh “Ooh-Oh” <–
I am looking forward to the 2nd Edition of this book with page 10 violently torn out by a professional editor, and removing all indicators of “I am talking down to you” that are scattered throughout the book.
An author could not erect a bigger barrier for their own success. Take gun, aim at foot, pull trigger.
Rise of the Churlish, Arrogant, Hubristic Psychonaut
“Do not read this book if you ever used any of these purposes for psychedelics: [lists every known purpose].”
“Hey everyone in the world, go away, you are not worthy of my removing of your ignorance.”
— Houot, entire page 10, & scattered throughout book
Did Houot take writing lessons from the lying, duplicitous, censorious, total jerk Wasson, p. 180, SOMA?
Con artist Wasson tries to bully people into denying mushroom-trees, which Wasson plainly knows of course are mushrooms, per Ruck Committee’s leak, “Wasson’s conclusion” in “Daturas for the Virgin” p. 56.
Houot is unaccustomed to writing for the unwashed masses of uneducated who lack an advanced degree.
He MAKES SURE to explicitly let everyone know:
“I am talking down to you. I will inform you for the first time. You should start thinking scientifically and rationally. I will teach you how.”
Are Houot’s Ibogaine podcasts so insulting, explicitly talking down to the audience?
Michael Pollan, Expert Writer on Psychedelic Science: “Don’t write if you know the answer”
Houot needs to take writing lessons from Michael Pollan, on how to write for a mass popular audience.
“The center conducts research using psychedelics to investigate cognition, perception and emotion and their biological bases in the human brain.
“In addition to teaching, he lectures widely on … psychedelic science.”
The Churlish, Offensive Online Tone of “I Am Superior: I am a Naturalist, Atheist, Rationalist”
‘Churlish’ means rude, boorish, lacking in civility or graciousness, unfriendly, unpleasant.
If I post a book review in format below, the first Con would be warning:
Houot tells everyone to not read his book, and he insults the hell out of everyone and talks down like a mo-fo, belittling the reader.
The first thing a professional editor would do is burn page 10 with {fire}: p 10.
I blame the atheist poor P.R. style and the “I am a Rationalist, I am superior” rude internet tone, that he channels. Do not write a book with the worst tone of online smug agressive self-proud “naturalist, atheist, rationalist” tone.
That is the repellent hurdle you have to be charitable toward.
Houot demands that you be charitable toward his hamfisted rude self-defeating attacking of all audiences.
Rise of the Arrogant Psychonaut
Could you talk DOWN any more, oh great master [and eager to present yourself as Great Master over the little minions].
Joke idea: post a page that talks down to some imagined little followers of the Egodeath theory , like Whoo-oooahh talks down to his fantasized little audience – and it IS little, since p. 10 at start shooed all the filthy dirty types of readers, “Put this book down, IT’S NOT FOR THE LIKES OF YOU.”
my Marketing dept advises me to leverage Whooooaaahhh’s error in my favor:
The Egodeath theory is superior because it welcomes all of the little people, it is welcoming to all of the little, irrational, addled-mind followers of my great self.
The Egodeath Theory is Warmly Welcoming to all Little, Unworthy, Muddle-Headed Regular People
I will teach you, my little readers, how to start thinking and how to start being rational, in a more friendly way of stooping and lowering myself to deign to remove your ignorance, than Houot’s writing style.
He picks up this adversarial, us-vs.-them attitude up from the Reddit self-proud and eager to let you know, Reddit forum “RationalPsychonaut” reddit group. (idk the lingo)
Houot’s poor writing tone reminds me of the online “basement” (socially unskilled) atheist community (which no longer exists since Richard Carrier single-handedly blew it up in a couple conferences some years ago), the death knell, “the new atheists” who killed-off atheism, it’s now history.
Carrier single-handedly killed the atheism community by dragging-in toxic “new atheism”. I revisited a few times, unclear what happened – an infiltration of alien agendas, coopting and then killing the host.
Deathly fatal parasitism; New Atheism destroyed atheism in the course of trying to coopt and take over and steer in some completely other direction.
Dislikeable tone, of the Rational Psychonauts: they should be mad at Whoooooaaahhhh! for poorly representing their loudly belittling attitude.
We Rational Psychonauts are better than you, and we’re eager to trumpet our attitude.
Houot’s Rational Psychonaut God-Complex & “RationalPsychonaut” BAGGAGE – What Are We Signing onto Here, Mystery Package Deal – HARD PASS
“A messiah with a message”, Houot accuses – look in the mirror, Whoo-ooaaah!
I Advise You, Houot, Stop Overusing Personal Pronouns in Your Advocacy to Me
Tip: Avoid pronouns. we, us, our, you, me, I — be careful with these words!
You didn’t address professionals with “you” in your two post-dissertation articles.
This book uses a clumsy, awkward, over-personal approach that you are not practiced at, and it flops and backfires, talking down to your readers, many of whom can lecture you.
“Me, I, you” – it’s aggression.
Oooh-Oww really lets his disrespect for the audience, and his self-aggrandizement show through LOUD AND CLEAR by overuse of “I” and “you”.
He’s trying to ADVOCATE his approach by INSULTING the readership directly. How’s that gonna work?
Is there any possibility you could have a professional editor rush a revised 2nd edition? Well no, take a lot of time to fix this framing.
What Page # Is “If You Use any Metaphor Other than {Sailing Ship Explorer of External Planet or Space Exploration}, Put This Book Down, It’s Not for You”?
This is the most adversarial, reader-attacking passage I have ever read.
Then, in case you mistook him as saying “this book is for everyone”, after he’s gunned down 150% of the total possible readership groups, he cautions:
“With that said, my message will not resonate with everyone.”
Oh thanks, I must have misread the entire page above as saying “This book articulates an approach that’s useful and inviting for all people who have emphasized any approach.”
I thought that above the page said that this book will resonate with everyone. Thanks for clarify my misreading.
Pronunciation of A. M. Houot: Ooh Oh; “If You Are Human, Put this Book Down, It’s Not for You” –> WHOOOOOOAAHHH!! –> Ooh-Oh; A. M. Ooh-Oh
[March 22, 2025]
Ooh-Oh: “If you use any metaphor / motive other than my narrow pet metaphor {external world-exploration in a ship}, then PUT THIS BOOK DOWN – IT’S NOT FOR YOU. –>
Every reader gasps: WHOOOOOOAAHHHH! –> Ooh-Oh.
For this page of the book, Houot BADLY needs an editor / P.R. person – what an awful, immature, self-defeating, ill-advised construction! Bad move! Terrible P. R.
Definitely strike that passage and entirely reframe it, in rev 2 of book.
Self-defeating Houot. His own worst enemy.
Also Ooh-Oh: “I slightly question these other metaphors/approaches, they are dogmatic“
LOL! Pot, kettle, black.
He outright demonizes the divine; Transcendent Knowledge; myth as analogy, and then calls other approaches / other writers “dogmatic”.
Who’s dogmatic, Houot?!
Foolish dismissal out of hand, of ANY AND ALL myth-type approaches, as a sweeping class generalization. Immature. Brittle thinking. Black-and-white FALSE DICHOTOMY, intellectually lazy.
It’s lazy and easy for Psychedelic Information Theory author James Kent to blanket dismissal of any and all myth or divine type approaches.
lol Houot just said “be playful, fun, interesting” – Mr. Flat Affect, social-skills-challenged, STEM-based critic poor at P R; churlish, clumsy, and self-contradictory.
An ancient Greek Mysteries festival. I’ve met some of the participants at my church.
Rumored: Dr. Secret & the Evil M. Hoffman will be there: Carl Ruck & Mark Hoffman.
I am not familiar with this long-running festival. My site isn’t one to announce events, but there are exceptions – my psychedelic church members told me about this event.
“Since 1985, Aquarian Tabernacle Church has been continuing the Eleusinian Mysteries originally held in Ancient Greece.
“These mysteries, held every year in honor of Demeter and Persephone, explore universal concepts and truths from the perspective of the seeker of hidden knowledge.
“Our Priests and Priestesses spend 3-4 months preparing for the festival, working with the energies of the Gods and rehearsing the ritual drama that is presented over 4 days for hundreds of people each Easter Weekend.
“Though the main portions of the event focus on Greek deities, there are many workshops and other groups that bring a plethora of alternate ways to explore, including the general mysteries of women, men and those who identify as a mixture of both energies.
“There is also a vendors space, with many often-requested items and trinkets to take home, and plenty of space for conversations or introspective moments.
“Everyone who attends will come away transformed and with wonderful memories of their time in Eleusis.”
🎥✨ Get ready for an enchanting time on the Festival Fun Show, streaming exclusively on Witchcraft TV! 🌙
Join the charismatic A.C. Fisher-Aldag as she welcomes a truly magical guest—the esteemed Arch-Priestess Belladonna Laveau of the Aquarian Tabernacle Church of Wicca (USA).
Together, they’ll dive into the heart of contemporary Wicca, exploring the sacred traditions, spiritual insights, and transformative work of the ATC and all about the upcoming Spring Mysteries Festival.
This is more than just an interview—it’s a celebration of wisdom, community, and the journey toward empowerment through spiritual practice.
Opportunity to learn from one of Wicca’s most inspiring leaders and advocates. 💫
Due to fluke, I got this before it was avail Feb 2, 2025; i got it Dec 23, 2024. march 20 2025 i also bought $25 audiobook, which is great format; good content; good voczn, good tech usage.
Strangely the book lacks surrenderism critique and big claim of shamans having control stability during Psilocybin, tho Houot focused on that pair of topics in 2019 Masters dissertation & article Psyc Ship.
The Psychonaut’s Ship
Pairing Technologies with Psychedelics to Augment User Agency
A. M. Houot
Prefatory
written by Houot
Modern psychedelic users are commonly advised to surrender to altered states of consciousness.
[surrender to what? Michelle Janikian’s book uses this same strange construction. More like: lower-level personal control system (child-thinking; monolithic, autonomous control) is made to surrender to 2-level, dependent control; the overpowered female mind is made to surrender to the male; FEMALE: the control thought-receiver ctr the helpless thought-receiver htr the helpless control-thought receiver hctr MALE: hidden source of control-thoughts hsct the control-thought inserter cti the uncontrollable source of control-thoughts usct]
Once users consider the possibility that ‘surrenderism’ is a necessary prerequisite—though not an exclusive approach—coupled with the idea that psychedelic experiences might not be religious or supernatural, the idea emerges that pairing technologies with psychedelics is a viable methodology to comport oneself during psychedelic states.
Shamans display signs of control and mastery upon entering altered states, partly because of intentionally crafted techniques and technologies that assist them.
It is argued that modern psychedelic users of modern technologies may augment the level of control over their experiences, that is to say, making use of prostheses to maintain balance during intoxicated states.
[f134 stand on right foot to maintain balance and avoid control instability Great Canterbury Psalter:
Crop by Michael Hoffman
f145 stand on right foot to maintain balance and avoid control instability:
Crop by Michael Hoffman
f77 stand on right foot to maintain balance and avoid control instability:
Crop by Michael Hoffman
prostheses – crutch to have stability while incorrectly stand on left foot
stand on left foot = rely on egoic possibilism-thinking –> control instability
stand on right foot = rely on eternalism-thinking. –> control stability
crutch could indicate washed-clean, qualified possibilism-thinking; left foot touches stable column base.
/ end Michael Hoffman images]
Page 2 — A M HOUOT [left page header] Psychedelic Press XXXV [left page footer]
The understanding of the concept psychonaut or sailor of the mind is analogously expanded to include the psychonaut’s ship, comparable to nautical technologies used by sailors .
The example of the psychonaut’s ship provides the platform upon which to reflect future applications and utilities of psychedelic technologies .
If psychedelic users are like sailors of the mind, then, what is their ship? What follows is an inquiry into how modern psychedelic users can apply technologies like their shaman counterparts to increase agency during psychedelic experiences.
Introduction
written by Houot
The commonly held supposition that modern users have little to no agency during psychedelic experiences needs revision .
[transformation of mental model of personal control system/ personal control agency]
Recommendations to passively surrender to the experience, i.e., ‘surrenderism’,1 is of particular interest when it comes to modern users’ fears and concerns of psychedelic experiences.
[the experience of the threat of catastrophic loss of control, due to relying on monolithic, autonomous control]
Experts recommend modern users surrender to psychedelic states, and users unquestioningly heed such advice.
[the personal control system is made to surrender to 2-level, dependent control – the underlying reality]
Alternative approaches as to how one comports oneself in altered states of consciousness are available .
The following is an examination and expansion of one such overlooked approach, that is, using technology [VAGUE] during psychedelic experiences.
I contemplate how pairing modern technology with psychedelic states may provide augmented user agency compared to the current, dominant surrenderism model.
In Section 1, I consider one of many possible reasons why modern users would want to pair technology with psychedelic experiences, namely, to curb fear of the unknown.
[dread of ego dissolution? no; of: the hidden, uncontrollable source of control-thoughts]
VAGUE, VAGUE, VAGUE
I argue elsewhere that modern psychedelic users need not only interpret their experiences from the mystic’s fear and surrender perspective but also might consider adopting
shamanic principles of control and mastery of altered states through the use of techniques and technologies [VAGUE].2
In Section 2, I defend the premise of surrendering to [TO WHAT?] psychedelics, however, for particular subsets of users and motives; for example, the inexperienced, the inadequately prepared or trained, or preventing harm to self or others.
In Section 3, I highlight the tendency of ancient peoples to interpret that which they did not understand or control as somehow being religious or supernatural.
Simply because present-day people do not adequately comprehend psychedelic experiences does not qualify these experiences as sacred.
I invite readers to consider historical examples when science and technology could eventually better explain natural phenomena than divine beings or gods.
Additionally, many people take the notion of surrender for granted, but I ask why modern psychedelic users must surrender; why should surrender be given automatically; and why taking into consideration some level of control of experiences is not treated?
In a move away from surrenderism, ayahuasca-drinking Santo Daime religious members incorporate rituals and codified frameworks, attempting to constrain the psychedelically unconstrained mind.
[good phrase]
These sociocultural-specific constraints are a step in the direction I propose .
Finally, I develop ideas to integrate purpose-built psychedelic technologies, or prostheses [DAMN IT MAN, THIS IS AS VAGUE AS “THE TRADITIONAL METHODS OF THE MYSTICS”], to constrain or channel the intoxicated mind, aiming to increase user agency [UNTIL FUZZY WUZZY LOVING CUP EXPLOSION CLIMAX OF NEW BIRTH] during psychedelic experiences.
1. Mystic Fear and Shaman Control
written by Houot
In previous research, I analyze ways in which modern users might conceptualize the psychedelic experience that counters the current fear-laden discourse on drugs.3
Since many modern societies and individuals fear [FEAR OF WHAT? the experience of the threat of catastrophic loss of control] the experiences psychedelics elicit, I explore the likely roots [hidden underlying snake in basket; the hidden, uncontrollable source of control-thoughts] of
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these fears, and once known, ask how modern technology [VAGUE AF] might be used to somehow steer or control psychedelic experiences .
For that which one controls no matter the degree, one increases one’s agency [try harder, egoic control foundation! until you are dead king hung on tree, ram caught in thicket] during the experience, therefore, theoretically minimizing one’s fear of the once-held fear object.
Early researchers such as Aldous Huxley, Alan Watts, and Richard Alpert (later known as Ram Dass) turned to Far Eastern and Indian religions and philosophies in the 1950s–1970s, notably mysticism, in an effort to make sense of psychedelic effects on modern users’ subjectivity.
Depending on their religious inclination mystics may speak of love and devotion [2-level, dependent control; “relational”] when ‘melting away’ and merging [beginner unity] with the Other, or they might speak of fear and the unavoidable surrender to some divine being(s).4
Mystics surrender to a claimed divine being or presence, suggesting that whatever or whomever they surrender to is in charge; the Other is in control for as long as the mystic remains in the altered state.5 Psychedelics alter consciousness as well, leaving modern users with similar experiences and questions, hence the analogous comparisons to mysticism .
In continuing this line of reasoning, I argue that modern users find themselves in at least three types of ‘master/subject relations’: master/slave, host (master)/guest, and teacher (master)/student.6 In each case, users relinquish control of their being, thereby assuming the role of slave, guest, or student when in psychedelic-induced states .
A modified framework based on former U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s ‘there are known knowns’ comment is used to get at modern psychedelic users’ ultimate fear [the experience of the threat of catastrophic loss of control due to the hidden, uncontrollable source of control-thoughts] , drilling down from knowns to unknowns, from which I develop a new qualitative framework to explain notions of self in a surrenderism paradigm regarding the assessment of ‘complete’ [not mystical; just Stacean] mystical experiences, and ask whether there is another way
THE PSYCHONAUT’S SHIP 5 Psychedelic Press XXXV
for modern users to increase their agency [until the climax transformation is reached] during experiences.7
From this perspective, I turn to a spiritual practice that is farther removed from modern society and culture, namely, shamanism, appreciating how shamans’ notions of control and mastery (claimed by modern academics) of drug and nondrug altered states can inform modern users’ conceptualizations of psychedelic use and self-comportment.
Shamans use techniques and technologies [SOUNDS LIKE VAGUE B S] (broadly construed) such as song lyrics [like Ride the Lighting by Metallica? Little Dolls by Ozzy? Twilight Zone by Rush?] and melodies, dances, rattles, and drums [shaman Neil Peart], particularly a technique proposed by psychologist Richard Noll called ‘mental imagery cultivation’ [image of the experience of the threat of catastrophic loss of control], through which novices learn to develop the vividness of visions with the intent to control them.8 [how do “YOU” control the intent that YOU receive from the uncontrollable source of control-thoughts?]
Shamans not only have means to enter into altered states of consciousness; they also have systems in place apparently[???] to control their experiences.
Shamans do not speak about altered states in terms of fear and surrender as mystics and modern psychedelic users do; conversely, they display control and mastery.
In reframing the perception of the psychedelic experience to one that moves away from surrenderism [f u, gods! shaking fist] and which addresses fear, I conclude that modern psychedelic users might fare well to use ‘mysticism to explain’ while simultaneously using ‘shamanism to control’ their experiences.9
As expert shamans have manifold [“many” is b s like “there are many ways of Psilocybin experience without drugs”, tho none work well enough] techniques and technologies to enter into and exercise some control of altered states or of themselves in altered states,
likewise modern psychedelic users can do the same through the use of what I call ‘symbolico-technological relations’, in other words, pairing symbol with technology:
Psychedelics, symbols, and technologies used together reveal new applications, resulting in a wrestled-free symbolicotechnological third function. [sounds bull shiite]
Coupling symbol with technology creates avenues of new experiences, experiences malleable by
6 A M HOUOT Psychedelic Press XXXV
the user depending on the co-equal symbolico-technological relation and how each co-shapes the created third function.10
I say further that psychedelic technologies in general have considerable potential to act as ‘prostheses’ or crutches that afford a kind of balancing act when psychedelic users experience non-ordinary mental and perceptual conditions.11
[f177: stand on right foot to maintain balance and avoid control instability:
Crop by Michael Hoffman
I realize now that I limited my scope of ‘psychedelic technology’ to symbolico-technologies only; in actuality, they are but a subset of what a psychedelic technology can be.
I flesh out the discussion about why and how to pair modern technology with psychedelic experiences in my previous work.
However, I shall expand on my arguments by detailing the obvious need for surrenderism, the eventual need to abandon surrenderism, and propose additional utilities for pairing technologies with psychedelics.
I define and discuss psychedelic technology in detail in Section 4.
2. Surrenderism for Some, but Not for All
written by Houot
Experts in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and harm reduction contexts have asserted the notion of surrender since at least the 1960s.12
It is no wonder that current Psychedelic Renaissance researchers, chiefly focusing on psychedelics’ therapeutic use, would advise modern users, especially their clinical study participants, to surrender [to what?].
Advising surrender in research contexts minimizes risk to everyone involved and ensures there are nil or few mishaps during the research process; an unpredictable, ‘freaked out’ participant is bad for business, so to speak.
In addition, we can safely assume that psychedelic-naïve and -experienced participants are far from exerting shamanic standards of control.
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While I disagree with such a blanketed recommendation for modern users, I point out appropriate instances when individuals should practice surrender: (i) user inexperience; (ii) inadequate preparation and training; and (iii) surrender is better than potentially harming oneself or others. [smell of hubris]
Author of the book on ayahuasca phenomenology, The Antipodes of the Mind: Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience, psychologist Benny Shanon identifies three levels of cleansing that ayahuasca induces: bodily, psychological, and spiritual in this progression .
For Shanon, the ayahuasca drinker would find it difficult to ascend to heightened dimensions of experience if one did not first overcome personal [in the sense of, personal control system] psychological issues.13
Thus, surrender is a good strategy for novices who have little to no experience with psychedelics or still have personal issues to deal with.
[that’s the wrong sense of ‘personal’; personal control system ; the egoic personal control system – not unique to one’s history]
Once these issues have been worked out and the user no longer takes psychedelics for therapeutic or personal growth motives, one can work on ‘spiritual’ cleansing, before, or in parallel, attempting to control the experience through and with technology .
Second, and closely tied to the point above, users would be advised to adopt a surrender position if inadequately prepared or trained in psychedelic experiences .
The majority of modern users are not trained at all to handle these experiences compared to the intensive training shamans receive .
The motive for taking psychedelics is also an important factor: while many shamans are first and foremost chosen to be shamans,14 they enter altered states on behalf of members of their community in addition to gaining insight and knowledge from other realms to ensure their community’s survival.15
The trends du jour for taking psychedelics among modern users, as a result of recently rediscovering or rebranding psychedelics, are personal and spiritual growth,16 and addiction interruption.17
Users desperate to personally
8 A M HOUOT Psychedelic Press XXXV
and spiritually grow or become well would likely try anything such as ingesting a psychedelic even though they might lack adequate preparation .
Once again, surrender turns out to be good advice for someone unprepared or ill-trained to operate with an intoxicated mind.
[“surrender” is WAY too vague, folk talk]
Practice through repetition offers users a feasible way out of surrenderism .
Psychedelic psychotherapist Duncan Blewett, who worked with Humphrey Osmond in Canada in the 1950s, hints at this:
‘Self-surrender is not an event that occurs only once, but must be repeated as additional repressed material [B S Psychology baloney] is released.
Each repetition becomes easier because of the positive reinforcement given by each previous self-surrender’.18
For Blewett, repeated self-surrender to psychedelics becomes easier as one accustoms to them and jointly attends to their own personal and repressed issues (similar to Shanon’s views) .
Evidently, there exists the possibility and even likelihood that one need not endlessly surrender to the psychedelic as experiences become ‘easier’ .
Such initial surrenderist maneuvers serve as necessary stepping-stones toward increased agency of one’s subsequent experiences.
[I can agree if elaborate and differentiate two different senses – as it stands, TOO VAGUE]
Third, surrendering to the experience is better than, for example, physically or mentally breaking down, therefore potentially harming oneself or others:
‘Surrender can be considered a form of passive control, in that surrendering to the experience is a better alternative than resisting the oncoming altered state, which could lead to bad experiences’.19
The very act of surrendering, knowing that one should surrender, either from one’s intuition or a clinician’s recommendation, is a form of control because the experiencer is regulating that part of their self that might resist, or react to, the temporary bodily and mental changes.
[REALLY must control transformation, not binary have or don’t have control]
While surrender can be considered a soft form of control, it is not the sort of control I illustrate in later sections .
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3. Secularization of Experience
written by Houot
The second commonly held attitude that must change for a revision in the way modern users consider psychedelic experiences, ultimately leading to a new or parallel paradigm, is the secularization of experience .
In his book, Cleansing the Doors of Perception: The Religious Significance of Entheogenic Plants and Chemicals, religious scholar Huston Smith comments on the sacred, surrender, and control .
He is quite right when he says that that which we wield greater control or comprehension over leads to demystification .
For example, humans do not control the weather, but meteorologists today better understand it than polytheistic humans did thousands of years ago who attributed weather events to one of the gods.20 Of course, we do not know for certain whether weather gods exist, maybe they do, but I imagine most people would consult meteorological science and technology experts to explain climatic happenings .
Smith goes on to question whether (total) control is even wanted, that surrendering to some of life’s experiences has its virtues and not doing so could lead to cynicism: Not only is the notion of total control contradictory, it isn’t even attractive .
To enter a friendship, to say nothing of marriage, with intent to control it is to soil the prospect from the start .
Life calls for balancing the rewards of control with gifts that come to us through openness and surrender .
The more we resolve to have things our own way, the more closed we become to the virtues in alternative ways .
If we cannot perceive the virtue inherent in the capacity to surrender – to surrender to another person in love, or to obligation in the sense of feeling its claims upon us— cynicism awaits us.21
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I too shun the idea of trying to dominate friends and romantic partners and agree with the unattractiveness of ‘total control’ over life’s circumstances .
Let us backtrack for a moment and instead refrain from speaking in absolutes .
What about some form of partial control, not when it comes to people, but other features of reality? Why must some lived experiences remain a mystery? Why would not seeing Smith’s virtue in surrender lead to cynicism? On the contrary, I find the prospect of giving more agency to psychedelic users through technological means optimistic and positive .
‘Intent to control’ need not lead to ‘soiling’ experiences .
The definition of to soil is ‘to stain or defile morally—corrupt; to make unclean especially superficially—dirty’.22 Intent to control psychedelic experiences that are commonly considered to have religious or supernatural overtones does not indicate psychedelic technology users want to morally defile or make unclean such experiences .
Humans have always controlled aspects of their lives and surroundings in partial and agreeable ways; psychedelic experiences are nonexempt from suchlike pursuits .
Smith’s position sounds like a desperate effort to dissuade probative people from questioning their lived experiences and reality, reminiscent of religious leaders coping with Copernican angst .
As mentioned in the preceding section, repeated self-surrender is important for user acclimatization to altered states .
In a similar way, members of the syncretic ayahuasca religion called Santo Daime incorporate ritualistic and cultural cues to constrain the unconstrained mind .
Lifshitz, Sheiner and Kirmayer23 report how Santo Daime members structure their religious-psychedelic practices: men and women segregate in rows expanding outward from a central table where senior members sit, members recite prayers, sing hymns, coordinate dances, meditate silently while seated, and their interpretation of
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visions contribute to an ‘…ordering of ritual time and space structures the psychedelic experience along multiple modalities .
On a pragmatic level, it provides the framework and repeatability required for regular religious practice, and codifies Santo Daime’.24 Seen from the religious/healing perspective of Santo Daime, Lifshitz et al .
say, ‘Thus, promoting healing with psychedelics likely requires constraining the unconstrained mind through symbolic situational cues and embodied rituals that emphasize the potential to move from maladaptive patterns toward constructive states and behaviours’.25 Although my views about the claimed inherent religious feel to psychedelics and those of Santo Daime practitioners differ, I commend them and indigenous users for their codified frameworks that attempt to constrain or give order to the psychedelic experience .
At this juncture, I address the following possible objection to my argumentation thus far .
Shamans and Santo Daime members ostensibly already use techniques and technologies to control aspects of their psychedelic experiences in religious contexts .
One might ask why the abandonment of religious/supernatural connotations would be necessary to modern technology use that increases user agency during psychedelic experiences .
Neuroscientist Robin Carhart-Harris says scientists aim to be: …dispassionate, to really give ourselves the best chance to glean what is true .
… I come here with an open mind wanting to understand the phenomena but with a motivation to try to study it .
I think if you just leave it [psychedelics] in this enchanting space, then you might be motivated not to even study it.26 A secular approach stands a greater chance at advancing knowledge of psychedelic states .
The religiously inclined or the ‘enchanted’
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may stop short of probing deeper into experiences for any number of reasons, whereas people with more of a secularist mindset will likely ask questions and conduct experiments that contradict indigenous and mainstream religious dogma .
Psychiatrist Matthew W Johnson recognizes the fallibility in using nonempirical frameworks in psychedelic medicine and research contexts and discloses multiple dangers regarding the use of religious references by psychedelic scientists and clinicians .
‘It is important to operate instead from a secular framework that is nonetheless open to working with patients or participant [sic] of any religious/spiritual background’.27
As tempting as it may be for some clinicians to introduce religious and spiritual belief systems to help study participants find meaning from their experiences and about their lives, these placeholders and the icons that represent them should be avoided, according to Johnson, because they not only precondition psychedelic users to have a specific experience, but they also alienate participants who might be atheist or practice another religion whose religious symbolism is absent from the study environment .
In short, preconditioning experiences and alienating study participants leads to bad science and practice, not to mention ethical concerns .
Surrenderism is a necessary step in one’s evolving psychedelic journeying process; however, it is not the only way to comport oneself as I hope is beginning to become clear .
Additionally, once one accepts the possibility that altered states of consciousness—including those psychedelic-induced—are not religious or sacred, one would no longer resort to unconditional surrender as mystics do and as modern researchers recommend .
As one gains enough experience through repeat exposure and the initial transcendental luster subsides, repeat users might realize that otherworldly phenomena afforded by psychedelics
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are indeed highly curious other dimensions, yet without the religiosacral connotations .
In the next and final section, I argue for technology use during psychedelic states that moves beyond but also compliments the abovementioned ritualistic and symbolic signaling.
4. Augmenting Agency and Control with Prostheses
written by Houot
Ernst Jünger, German author and friend of Albert Hofmann, coined the term psychonaut (from the German, psychonauten)28 to mean ‘psychedelic astronaut, explorer of the inner cosmos’.29
While the astronaut-explorer-of-psychedelic-spaces description aptly references these experiences, we should also inspect the meaning of the suffix nautès .
In this sense, psycho-naut means ‘sailor of the mind’ or ‘navigator of the psyche’, referring to individuals wanting to explore their minds by means of any kind of consciousness alteration.30 The resultant substantive form then is psychonautics, or ‘(the art of) “sailing the mind” or “navigating the psyche”’.31
If psychedelic users are like sailors of the mind, then, what is their ship? How does one turn sailing the psychedelic-intoxicated mind or navigating the psychedelic-intoxicated psyche into a predictable and controllable art form? Psychonautic technology from rituals and symbolico-cultural cues to the pairing of technologies with psychedelics is an overlooked topic in modern psychedelic discourse .
The sailor on their ship does not leave port hoping that the tide will take them to their desired destination .
No; the sailor commands a transportation device made for a specific purpose .
The ship undoubtedly is subject to waves, weather, creatures beneath the water’s surface, etc .
Nevertheless, the experienced sailor knows how to use their technology
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to steer through the unknown, that which they cannot control, and toward their destination .
They use technology to go from one point to a predetermined other, and their ship is suited to deal with many natural events en route .
The same can be said about the sailor of psychedelic worlds .
Whereas both surrenderists and psychedelic technology users might start with an intention to guide them through the experience, surrenderists basically leap into the ocean of altered consciousness expecting the tide to take them to their destination, an action predicated on hope and submission .
This is folly .
Modern users would do better to think about using a sort of ship, some technical or technological accoutrement that can improve the journey’s steadiness and at their volition .
One must ask whether one is a passive passenger (e.g., surrender) or a course-charting captain utilizing seaworthy technology (e.g., control) .
In demarcating the boundary between science and technology, philosopher of technology Andrew Feenberg says: ‘Science and technology share a similar type of rationality based on empirical observation and knowledge of natural causality, but technology is concerned with usefulness rather than truth .
Where science seeks to know, technology seeks to control.’32 No one knows for certain the metaphysical status of psychedelic states; we can infer however, according to Feenberg, there is an inherent element of control regarding the essence and usefulness of technology .
Just as modern-day instruments help natural scientists learn more about reality, technologies offering greater control and therefore agency to psychedelic users would also likely help answer experiencers’ and scientists’ knowledge or truth claims about psychedelic phenomena .
I have previously defined my concept of psychedelic ‘symbolicotechnology’, 33 but fell short of defining what ‘psychedelic technology’
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is.
Here, I define psychedelic technology as follows: a humanmade technique or technology that pairs with psychedelic states of consciousness for the purpose of documentation, data collection, and/ or to control aspects of the experience for purposes of navigating, coshaping, directing one’s experience, etc., resulting in augmented user agency.34
In other words, psychedelic technology broadly speaking is any technique or technology paired with psychedelics that gives users greater insight, control, and/or agency over their experiences.
There are at least two types of psychedelic technology: passive and active.
Psychedelic technology is passive when that which is being overseen is the documentation, collection, and analysis of data from one’s experience.
For example, physiological testing equipment can be used to pick up signals or biomarkers from psychedelics’ effects on users .
Note that high-tech research devices such as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) were not designed with psychedelics in mind but are used by psychedelic researchers .
Furthermore, other modern technologies and passive psychedelic technologies certainly will assist in developing purpose-specific active psychedelic technologies .
Psychedelic technologies are passive when they are in the background to collect or monitor data in some capacity, and usually would not be purpose-built for psychedelic experiences, although the latter is possible .
Active psychedelic technology is a means to increase control of experiences through navigating, co-shaping, or directing .
Within the category of active psychedelic technology, we can further differentiate between hard and soft control .
I define hard control as controlling everything about the experience, that is, the experiencer wields absolute control .
Since this is unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future, if ever, soft control is what trained psychedelic technology users can do:
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they are able to navigate, shape, and determine how their experience unfolds depending on their expertise with psychedelics and their skill in using paired psychedelic technologies .
As mentioned earlier, such skill requires one moving beyond the prerequisite surrender phase of one’s psychedelic journeying evolution .
Passive psychedelic technology can become active if, when monitoring vital signs, the researcher directs the experiencer to take specific anticipatory actions, for example, to raise or lower blood pressure, heart beats per minute, directing the drug user’s attention, changing position of the body, introducing an idea or object during the experience, etc .
Therefore, psychedelic technologies are active when they are in the foreground to steer experiences, and presumably will be purpose-built for psychedelic experiences .
Not necessarily a prosthesis to stabilize one’s visionary experience but rather a documentation tool can be found in Qualia Research Institute’s Tracer Replication Tool .
This psychedelic technology was designed to ‘collect quantitative data about psychedelic tracers’.35 The internet browser-based tool works as follows .
The participant observes a bouncing blue ball on their computer screen while in an intoxicated state .
Once the visionary experience subsides, they toggle the tool’s settings to reconstruct what the tracer looked like as it was superimposed upon the default blue ball in addition to providing information such as drug type, dosage, how many hours into the intoxicated state they used the tool, and how many hours after the experience they documented their tracer .
The Tracer Replication Tool is a simple technology purposely built to document a specific aspect of psychedelic perception .
As usergenerated reports filter in, we may make more sense of what happens to visual perception depending on drug type and dosage and we will be able to literally show such representations to others .
While one’s unique physiology and cognition shape each person’s subjective experience,
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the above technology may reveal that drug, dosage, age, mood, culture, or any number of standalone or combined factors may lead to consistent and predictable tracer phenomena .
I offer another practical way to think about psychedelic technology .
Aikido is a Japanese martial art that teaches the importance of defensive maneuvering by using the attacker’s own movements to subdue him .
The attacked conserves energy by flowing with, not against, the attacker: ‘Aikido is performed by blending with the motion of the attacker and redirecting the force of the attack rather than opposing it head-on .
… The goal of Aikido training is not perfection of a step or skill, but rather improving one’s character according to the rules of nature’.36 In this way, the attacker expends more energy and thus is more at risk of tiring themself out, making themself susceptible to the impassable defensive offense of the attacked; the attacker must work harder to bring down their opponent .
According to the survival response known as fight-or-flight (-orfreeze), psychedelic technology use would be considered as a form of ‘fight’ because it is certainly not flight or freeze .
However, it is not fighting per se, rather an active and anticipatory defensive-like maneuver, a form of flowing with one’s precarious environment with the help of technological accoutrements designed for psychedelic states .
Sailors know the limits and capabilities of their technologies and have expertise in navigating their ships around adverse weather events or, if need be, to sail through waves head on .
Sailors do not try to control the weather but instead know how to work with it by getting the most out of their nautical technology .
The ship is purposefully built for moving atop the uncertainty and randomness of waves: it has a keel to stabilize, sails to propel, a rudder to steer .
Active psychedelic technologies would have comparable features that enable users to gain some level of control over the uncertainty and randomness of visionary phenomena and worlds .
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Whatever the intoxicated mind shows experiencers, one must face it and accept what comes; one must confront whatever presents itself or that which needs to be revealed .
(One day, perhaps, technologies will be capable of inducing specific/desired visionary content as well.) Sailors cannot control approaching waves and storms; they skillfully maneuver their vessel with or around them .
Similarly, modern psychedelic technologies may enable users to direct their experiences with greater control irrespective of that which presents itself to consciousness .
Conclusion
written by Houot
Historical evidence suggests humans sacralize that which they do not comprehend nor control .
In accordance with the mystic’s views, surrendering implies that the psychedelic user foregoes whatever agency they may have .
History teaches that there might not be anything religious or supernatural about psychedelic-induced states; likely, these spaces merely are different dimensions of reality upon which, because of naivete and lack of knowledge, people put such placeholders .
The surrenderism model within psychedelia is a prerequisite for inexperienced, untrained, or novice users and should not be abandoned any time soon .
However, sustained belief in letting go or giving oneself over to the experience concretizes the feeling that one could not possibly understand these realms .
I contend that surrenderism may have damaging downstream effects insofar as experiencers relinquish pursuits of experiential sense-making .
Academics and amateurs must eventually transcend surrenderism and religious/supernatural connotations in favor of new methods to have any chance at making epistemic gains pertaining to the visionary, otherworldly content afforded by psychedelics .
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Recognizing surrenderism’s usefulness as a means, but not exclusively as an end, and welcoming prospects of having more agency, prepares the psychedelic user for new types of experience .
Any form of constraining the psychedelic mind, from rituals and symbols to psychedelic technologies, helps users manage visionary experiences .
In addition to controlling their voyage, curbing fear37 is but one reason why one would want to use technology during their psychedelic experiences; other reasons include navigating, co-shaping, communicating, and determining the experience .
The purpose, design, and function of a psychedelic technology will depend on one’s worldview, the type of knowledge one seeks, and what aspect of the experience one wishes to stabilize or document .
Humans will continue to find ways of incorporating technology with psychedelic experiences .
Psychedelic experiences have already been modified by shamanic technologies and ritualistic and symbolic cues found in the Santo Daime religion, and will continue to be by modern users and their technologies .
We must begin thinking how modern technology will shape psychedelic experiences for any user, no matter their cultural conditioning .
Pairing deliberately designed modern technologies with psychedelics is not only the future, it is the next evolutionary step in psychedelic drug use .
It is going to happen, and so we must consider how it will happen, how technology will be used before, during, and after psychedelic experiences, and for what purposes? Passive psychedelic technologies already exist and are being used in academic research .
What encourages me is what the future may bring regarding active psychedelic technologies .
I do not know what they will be, but their development and use are indeed possible .
Admittedly, I argue for something that does not yet exist, and cannot exist until
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people secularize their psychedelic experiences, outgrow their tendencies toward surrenderism, and seriously consider the possibility of pairing modern technology with these dimensions of non-ordinary experience for the purposes of augmented control, agency, and mastery, and hopefully, newfound knowledge as a result .
Notes
written by Houot
1 Houot AM (2019) .
Toward a Philosophy of Psychedelic Technology: An Exploration of Fear, Otherness, and Control, Master’s thesis, University of Twente, Enschede, Netherlands .
8 Houot (2019, pp 39–40); Noll R (1985) ‘Mental Imagery Cultivation as a Cultural Phenomenon: The Role of Visions in Shamanism’, Current Anthropology, 26(4), pp 443–461 .
9 Houot (2019, p 49) .
10 Houot (2019, pp 44–45) .
11 Houot (2019, p 50) .
12 Masters REL and Houston J (1966) .
The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience .
New York: Dell Publishing Co., Inc.; Blewett D (1970) .
‘The Psychedelics and Group Therapy’ in Aaronson B and Osmond H (eds) Psychedelics: The Uses and Implications of Hallucinogenic Drugs .
Garden City, NY: Anchor Books; Leary T, Metzner R and Alpert R (2007/1964) .
The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead .
New York: Citadel Press; Johnson MW, Richards WA and Griffiths RR (2008) .
‘Human Hallucinogen Research: Guidelines for Safety’, Journal of Psychopharmacology, 22(6), pp 603–620; Girón S (2013) .
‘Working with Trauma: Psychedelic Harm Reduction and Transpersonal Psychotherapy’, MAPS Bulletin, 23(3), 2013 Annual Report, pp 47–49 .
13 Shanon B (2002) .
The Antipodes of the Mind: Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience .
Oxford University Press, p 307 .
THE PSYCHONAUT’S SHIP 21 Psychedelic Press XXXV 14 Krippner S (2000) .
‘The Epistemology and Technologies of Shamanic States of Consciousness’, Journal of Consciousness Studies, 7(11–12), pp 93–118 .
15 Walsh R (1991) .
‘Shamanic Cosmology: Psychological Examination of the Shaman’s Worldview’, ReVision 13(2), pp 86–100; Walsh R (1995) .
‘Phenomenological Mapping: A Method for Describing and Comparing States of Consciousness’, Journal of Transpersonal Psychology, 27, pp 25–56 .
16 Móró L, Simon K, Bárd I and Racz J (2011) .
‘Voice of the Psychonauts: Coping, Life Purpose, and Spirituality in Psychedelic Drug Users’, Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 43(3), pp 188–198 .
17 Winkelman M (2014) .
‘Psychedelics as Medicines for Substance Abuse Rehabilitation: Evaluating Treatments with LSD, Peyote, Ibogaine and Ayahuasca’, Current Drug Abuse Reviews, 7(2), pp 101–116 .
18 Blewett D (1970) .
‘The Psychedelics and Group Therapy’ in Aaronson B and Osmond H (eds) Psychedelics: The Uses and Implications of Hallucinogenic Drugs .
Garden City, NY: Anchor Books, p 348 .
19 Houot (2019, p 49) .
20 Smith H (2000) .
Cleansing the Doors of Perception: The Religious Significance of Entheogenic Plants and Chemicals .
‘Cultural Neurophenomenology of Psychedelic Thought: Guiding the ‘Unconstrained’ Mind Through Ritual Context’ in Fox KCR and Christoff K (eds) The Oxford Handbook of Spontaneous Thought: Mind-Wandering, Creativity, and Dreaming .
Oxford University Press .
24 Lifshitz, Sheiner and Kirmayer (2018, pp 585–586) .
25 Lifshitz, Sheiner and Kirmayer (2018, p 576) .
26 Davis E (2018) ‘How to Think about Weird Beings’ in Luke D and Spowers R (eds) DMT Dialogues: Encounters with the Spirit Molecule .
Rochester, VT: Park Street Press, p 152 .
27 Johnson MW (2020) ‘Consciousness, Religion, and Gurus: Pitfalls of Psychedelic Medicine’, ACS Pharmacology & Translational Science .
https:// dx.doi.org/10.1021/acsptsci.0c00198 28 Ott J (2001) ‘Pharmañopo—Psychonautics: Human Intranasal, Sublingual, Intrarectal, Pulmonary and Oral Pharmacology of Bufotenine’, Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 33(3), pp 273–281 .
29 Sjöstedt-Hughes P (n.d.) The Psychedelic Influence on Philosophy .
30 Blom JD (2010) A Dictionary of Hallucinations .
New York: Springer Science & Business Media, p 434 .
22 A M HOUOT Psychedelic Press XXXV 31 Blom (2010, p 434); Ott (2001) .
32 Feenberg A (2006) ‘What Is Philosophy of Technology?’ in Dakers JR (ed) Defining Technological Literacy: Towards an Epistemological Framework .
New York: Palgrave Macmillan, p 5 (my italics) .
33 Houot (2019) .
34 When speaking specifically about psychedelics, the term ‘psychonautic technology’ should be avoided because it refers to techniques and technologies used during any form of consciousness alteration such as meditation, yoga, other pharmaceuticals, etc .
35 Wu L, Gomez Emilsson A and Zuckerman A (2020) QRI Psychophysics Toolkit – Tracer .
The Egodeath theory 
